"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Grand Marshal 1]

Androids probably don’t have spirit, so this fusion will likely mean Vegeta’s new technique that he spent so much time developing just for the sake of beating Moro is probably immediately neutered in the end fight and didn’t even last and entire chapter.

Yeah Vegeta fans are just going to looooove that....

I don't see why Androids shouldn't have Spirit. At least those like 17 and 18 and possibly 7-3 too.

Thinking about it, though, no one uses it, so who knows the extent that would affect somebody else other than Moro... it might not affect them at all, or very little.

But I think that's fine. Vegeta learned this technique at this specific moment to defeat Moro. Later on he can still use it, but it's good he doesn't get something that could just end every fight anytime he fights, like UI feels. Keeps things more interesting.

Also, man, I haven't seen you in so long lol

Not sure how UI wins a fight every time when UI literally never won in the manga. Even in the anime, it only defeated Kelfa and it wasn’t even mentioned in the Broly movie.

Also, I doubt we’ll ever see this again when Toyo pretends Goku doesn’t know the Evil Containment Wave nor Hakai.

2 very good points.

This is what I'm afraid will happen with Vegeta's ability. It will be disregarded. And it's waaaay more specific than the Mafuba (unrestricted legit containment) and the hakai (existence erasure)

[Matches Malone]

I noticed some are saying Vegeta telling Goku he's better than him is character regression, but I don't see it that way. Goku and Vegeta are constantly going back and forth with each other, it doesn't mean they don't respect each other. Goku even says Vegeta being ahead is only temporary.

[Grimlock]

As such everyone has a part to play in this.

Right, but Majin Buu/Dai Kaioshin gets his rightful kill. Not that nonsense like what happened in Movie 15 where Vegeta should've been the one to rightfully kill Freeza.

[HeroR]

I noticed some are saying Vegeta telling Goku he's better than him is character regression, but I don't see it that way. Goku and Vegeta are constantly going back and forth with each other, it doesn't mean they don't respect each other. Goku even says Vegeta being ahead is only temporary.

Thing is, Vegeta outright said in the Buu Saga that Goku was more talented than him. So him suddenly going 'I'm more talented' seems really off. That and 'we went through the same training' ignores that Vegeta has far more experience and training (one being form a literal angel) then Goku who went to Yadrate after Namek. So Vegeta is basically bragging about one-upping Post-Namek Saga Goku.

I mean, the human cast also progressed faster than Goku when they went through similar training, yet none of them claimed to be more talented than Goku for it since they all know that they were stronger than Goku at the time he underwent his training. The most standout example is how Goku between the end of the King Piccolo Saga and the 23rd tournament got nowhere the power jump of the human cast who went from being weaker than Goku who got fodderized by Raditz, to Krillin being able to take out three Radtizs in one shot.

[Matches Malone]

Thing is, Vegeta outright said in the Buu Saga that Goku was more talented than him. So him suddenly going 'I'm more talented' seems really off.

Do you really expect Vegeta to tell Goku what he really thinks of him ? This is just Vegeta trying to get on Goku's nerves, as he always does, it has nothing to do with what he thinks of him.

[Xeno Goku Black]

Vegeta will pull Kami and Nail from Piccolo and they'll return to New Namek. Kami will take Moori's position as Elder and Nail will be his protector.

[Lionel]

Separating genetics and focusing on pure technical aptitude alone, Vegeta has shown promise before but nothing that would garner a reaction of him being the most noteworthy. If someone were to point to his copying the Kienzan from Krillin after witnessing it shortly before then another could acknowledge Goku and Tenshinhan quickly copying the Kamahameha at early ages. Were Vegeta's hit & run guerrilla tactics in the Freeza arc to be cited we could look upon Krillin in a similar vein as he was bringing up the rear as the de-facto leader of the weakest on the planet or even Yamcha's decoy tactics early on in the Pilaf arc.

Toyotaro may be presenting one picture with Vegeta but there's a myriad of prior ones which would appear to contest it.

[HeroR]

Thing is, Vegeta outright said in the Buu Saga that Goku was more talented than him. So him suddenly going 'I'm more talented' seems really off.

Do you really expect Vegeta to tell Goku what he really thinks of him ? This is just Vegeta trying to get on Goku's nerves, as he always does, it has nothing to do with what he thinks of him.

So you're just assuming that Vegeta is just talking smack, which he doesn't really do to Goku through Super, not even in the manga. That and Vegeta would know such a line wouldn't get on Goku's nerves since Goku doesn't actually care. Remember that Goku was the one who talked about hard work beating talent.

[Lord Beerus]

Random and scattered thoughts on Chapter 61:

- Vegeta (to Goku): "We underwent the same training but I'm more talented than you." A certain white haired transformation would disagree with that sentiment. And as if Super needed to shit even more on the "You're number one!" speech from the Majin Boo arc.
- I like the concept of Forced Spirit Fission. It's very unique technique that basically works as a reverse Genki Dama. Nice stuff.
- Piccolo: "Vegeta's never been one to misread an opponent's strength." What a load of bullshit. Vegeta does this constantly. Hell, he did that in this arc.
- The Namekian Dragon Balls can prevent corpses from rotting? Yeah... uh... bullshit. I don't buy that for a second.
- I just can't get into the whole "Vegeta is atoning for the sins of his past" shit that Toyotaro is trying to push. This was already done in the Majin Boo arc. And I find it hilarious Goku initially had no idea what "sins" Piccolo was referring to. Like, Goku isn't aware that Vegeta was a mass murderer. I mean, Vegeta has literally murdered hundreds of innocent people right in front of Goku!
- Fuck right off by trying to give Goku all the credit for changing Vegeta into a better person. That is revisionist history horseshit. Vegeta became a better person because he actually gave a shit about his family. The influence Goku had on Vegeta was (unintentionally) helping him come to peace with the idea that there is going to be someone better than you and it's okay to live with that. That was the endgame of Vegeta's character arc. It was not the catalyst for it. If anything was the catalyst for Vegeta's character growth it was when Future Trunks was killed was by Cell.
- Piccolo gushing about how Vegeta has changed as person was unnecessary, and came across a Toyotaro inserting himself as Piccolo to heap praise on character for aspects of his story that many fans are already aware of. It's unnecessary dialogue.
- Piccolo: "It looks like Vegeta manged to one-up you this time." Um... this has already happened in the past. This isn't some ground breaking achievement. And... ya know...Ultra Instinct is still a thing...
- Goku (about Vegeta): "But I'll surpass him again -- just you wait." The major reason Vegeta is winning is not because he's stronger, but because he's literally taking Moro's power away from him. Also...STOP FORGETTING ULTRA INSTINCT EXISTS.
- Vegeta: "When I die again? Naturally I'm bound for hell." That has to be the STUPIDEST fucking line I've EVER heard come out of the mouth of any character in Dragon Ball. Did the Majin Boo arc not happen? Did Vegeta not gain the special privilege of having a body when he died? Did Vegeta not qualify as one of the "good people" that was brought back to life during the fight with Kid Boo? STOP. FORGETTING. IMPORTANT. DETAILS.
- Vegeta: "At the end of the day, I'm a villain." I take back the previous comment... That is the stupidest fucking line I've ever heard come out of the mouth of any character in Dragon Ball. I'm sorry, but.. that's just... SO fucking wrong. Vegeta is a lot of things, but a villain? Did his redemption story arc never happen? This is kind of shit I would expect to see in those kind of Dragon Ball fanfics where characters say stupid shit -- that doesn't compliment their original characterisation at all -- all because it sounded cool. Vegeta is not an Anti-Villain for fucks sake. He's not Magento or Dr Freeze. He's a good guy. I mean, for crying out loud, he was able to take part in a ritual that required a person to be righteous. This is character assassination and history revisionism at its worst in all of Dragon Ball.
- Once again, Vegeta spends too much time monologuing and doesn't kill the main villain. Vegeta has learned nothing from Resurrection F.
- Aaaaannnddd Vegeta come back crashing to Earth following him fucking up. There's even the story beat of the main villain knocking Vegeta back down to the ground after becoming more powerful again. It's the Cell arc all over again. Just... somehow even more poorly written.
- Woof. Fused Moro is hideous. What an awful design.

In conclusion... this chapter can go fuck itself.

[HeroR]

Separating genetics and focusing on pure technical aptitude alone, Vegeta has shown promise before but nothing that would garner a reaction of him being the most noteworthy. If someone were to point to his copying the Kienzan from Krillin after witnessing it shortly before then another could acknowledge Goku and Tenshinhan quickly copying the Kamahameha at early ages. Were Vegeta's hit & run guerrilla tactics in the Freeza arc to be cited we could look upon Krillin in a similar vein as he was bringing up the rear as the de-facto leader of the weakest on the planet or even Yamcha's decoy tactics early on in the Pilaf arc.

Toyotaro may be presenting one picture with Vegeta but there's a myriad of prior ones which would appear to contest it.

Honestly, Vegeta learning how to sense energy and suppressed his power after Earth when the Z-Fighters had to all go through special training to do it, is probably his most impressive feat. Yet, no one in the manga ever mentions it.

[Michsi]

The panel where Piccolo states Vegeta has never been one to misread an opponent's strength...What is Piccolo talking about?

...that's what Vegeta's done exclusively to anyone who isn't Beerus throughout the entire series. It's almost his most defining trait.

Not true, Piccolo is actually right. It's why Vegeta is always afraid. He never misreads his opponents strength but underestimates their ability to grow. Unless a person has an ability to bring about hidden power Vegeta doesnt misread their strenght.

He looked down on Goku and beat Goku. He looked down on Zarbon and beat Zarbon until Zarbon transformed. He was terrified of the Ginyu force and was beat by them. He was terrified of Freeza and was beat by him. He looked down on Cell and beat him but let him transform. Etc Etc.

In all fairness, he boasted something fierce with Freeza's final form and Perfect Cell, and it was only after he engaged them that he noticed he was screwed. Those are serious and memorable failures, and Piccolo witnessed both of them...

And 18. Which Piccolo also was there for.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

I hope to god that little conversation about hell with Moro and Vegeta doesn't mean that Vegeta going to end up killing himself or somehow dying in the process of this fight and go to the afterlife. I feel like some stupid foreshadowing is gonna show up and kill him.

[Grand Marshal 1]

I hope to god that little conversation about hell with Moro and Vegeta doesn't mean that Vegeta going to end up killing himself or somehow dying in the process of this fight and go to the afterlife. I feel like some stupid foreshadowing is gonna show up and kill him.

Lemme put some fanboyism into motion.

HELL —> JANEMBA

[HeroR]

Random and scattered thoughts on Chapter 61:

- Vegeta (to Goku): "We underwent the same training but I'm more talented than you." A certain white haired transformation would disagree with that sentiment. And as if Super needed to shit even more on the "You're number one!" speech from the Majin Boo arc.
- I like the concept of Forced Spirit Fission. It's very unique technique that basically works as a reverse Genki Dama. Nice stuff.
- Piccolo: "Vegeta's never been one to misread an opponent's strength." What a load of bullshit. Vegeta does this constantly. Hell, he did that in this arc.
- The Namekian Dragon Balls can prevent corpses from rotting? Yeah... uh... bullshit. I don't buy that for a second.
- I just can't get into the whole "Vegeta is atoning for the sins of his past" shit that Toyotaro is trying to push. This was already done in the Majin Boo arc. And I find it hilarious Goku initially had no idea what "sins" Piccolo was referring to. Like, Goku isn't aware that Vegeta was a mass murderer. I mean, Vegeta has literally murdered hundreds of innocent people right in front of Goku!
- Fuck right off by trying to give Goku all the credit for changing Vegeta into a better person. That is revisionist history horseshit. Vegeta became a better person because he actually gave a shit about his family. The influence Goku had on Vegeta was (unintentionally) helping him come to peace with the idea that there is going to be someone better than you and it's okay to live with that. That was the endgame of Vegeta's character arc. It was not the catalyst for it. If anything was the catalyst for Vegeta's character growth it was when Future Trunks was killed was by Cell.
- Piccolo gushing about how Vegeta has changed as person was unnecessary, and came across a Toyotaro inserting himself as Piccolo to heap praise on character for aspects of his story that many fans are already aware of. It's unnecessary dialogue.
- Piccolo: "It looks like Vegeta manged to one-up you this time." Um... this has already happened in the past. This isn't some ground breaking achievement. And... ya know...Ultra Instinct is still a thing...
- Goku (about Vegeta): "But I'll surpass him again -- just you wait." The major reason Vegeta is winning is not because he's stronger, but because he's literally taking Moro's power away from him. Also...STOP FORGETTING ULTRA INSTINCT EXISTS.
- Vegeta: "When I die again? Naturally I'm bound for hell." That has to be the STUPIDEST fucking line I've EVER heard come out of the mouth of any character in Dragon Ball. Did the Majin Boo arc not happen? Did Vegeta not gain the special privilege of having a body when he died? Did Vegeta not qualify as one of the "good people" that was brought back to life during the fight with Kid Boo? STOP. FORGETTING. IMPORTANT. DETAILS.
- Vegeta: "At the end of the day, I'm a villain." I take back the previous comment... That is the stupidest fucking line I've ever heard come out of the mouth of any character in Dragon Ball. I'm sorry, but.. that's just... SO fucking wrong. Vegeta is a lot of things, but a villain? Did his redemption story arc never happen? This is kind of shit I would expect to see in those kind of Dragon Ball fanfics where characters say stupid shit -- that doesn't compliment their original characterisation at all -- all because it sounded cool. Vegeta is not an Anti-Villain for fucks sake. He's not Magento or Dr Freeze. He's a good guy. I mean, for crying out loud, he was able to take part in a ritual that required a person to be righteous. This is character assassination and history revisionism at its worst in all of Dragon Ball.
- Once again, Vegeta spends too much time monologuing and doesn't kill the main villain. Vegeta has learned nothing from Resurrection F.
- Aaaaannnddd Vegeta come back crashing to Earth following him fucking up. There's even the story beat of the main villain knocking Vegeta back down to the ground after becoming more powerful again. It's the Cell arc all over again. Just... somehow even more poorly written.
- Woof. Fused Moro is hideous. What an awful design.

In conclusion... this chapter can go fuck itself.

Vegeta only kept his body upon death because he was too useful in the in the fight against Buu, and even Goku thought he got wiped out in hell. Also, the Namekian dragon isn't Yemma. We don't know how he will be judged upon death again.

[HeroR]

The panel where Piccolo states Vegeta has never been one to misread an opponent's strength...What is Piccolo talking about?

...that's what Vegeta's done exclusively to anyone who isn't Beerus throughout the entire series. It's almost his most defining trait.

Not true, Piccolo is actually right. It's why Vegeta is always afraid. He never misreads his opponents strength but underestimates their ability to grow. Unless a person has an ability to bring about hidden power Vegeta doesnt misread their strenght.

He looked down on Goku and beat Goku. He looked down on Zarbon and beat Zarbon until Zarbon transformed. He was terrified of the Ginyu force and was beat by them. He was terrified of Freeza and was beat by him. He looked down on Cell and beat him but let him transform. Etc Etc.

In all fairness, he boasted something fierce with Freeza's final form and Perfect Cell, and it was only after he engaged them that he noticed he was screwed. Those are serious and memorable failures, and Piccolo witnessed both of them...

And 18. Which Piccolo also was there for.

He also did misread Goku since he thought for sure he wasn't going to be much of a challenged. Then Goku went Kaioken x4 and Vegeta proceeded to lose his shit. He also misread Freeza when he claimed that Freeza wouldn't get much stronger upon transforming and he also misread Piccolo by calling him 'that trash we killed on Earth' after he returned.

Funny how Piccolo just forgot that last one.

[Lord Beerus]

Vegeta only kept his body upon death because he was too useful in the in the fight against Buu, and even Goku thought he got wiped out in hell. Also, the Namekian dragon isn't Yemma. We don't know how he will be judged upon death again.

Vegeta at the very least is a morally good person. Saying he's a villain is fucking outrageous.

[Michsi]

Random and scattered thoughts on Chapter 61:

- Vegeta (to Goku): "We underwent the same training but I'm more talented than you." A certain white haired transformation would disagree with that sentiment. And as if Super needed to shit even more on the "You're number one!" speech from the Majin Boo arc.
- I like the concept of Forced Spirit Fission. It's very unique technique that basically works as a reverse Genki Dama. Nice stuff.
- Piccolo: "Vegeta's never been one to misread an opponent's strength." What a load of bullshit. Vegeta does this constantly. Hell, he did that in this arc.
- The Namekian Dragon Balls can prevent corpses from rotting? Yeah... uh... bullshit. I don't buy that for a second.
- I just can't get into the whole "Vegeta is atoning for the sins of his past" shit that Toyotaro is trying to push. This was already done in the Majin Boo arc. And I find it hilarious Goku initially had no idea what "sins" Piccolo was referring to. Like, Goku isn't aware that Vegeta was a mass murderer. I mean, Vegeta has literally murdered hundreds of innocent people right in front of Goku!
- Fuck right off by trying to give Goku all the credit for changing Vegeta into a better person. That is revisionist history horseshit. Vegeta became a better person because he actually gave a shit about his family. The influence Goku had on Vegeta was (unintentionally) helping him come to peace with the idea that there is going to be someone better than you and it's okay to live with that. That was the endgame of Vegeta's character arc. It was not the catalyst for it. If anything was the catalyst for Vegeta's character growth it was when Future Trunks was killed was by Cell.
- Piccolo gushing about how Vegeta has changed as person was unnecessary, and came across a Toyotaro inserting himself as Piccolo to heap praise on character for aspects of his story that many fans are already aware of. It's unnecessary dialogue.
- Piccolo: "It looks like Vegeta manged to one-up you this time." Um... this has already happened in the past. This isn't some ground breaking achievement. And... ya know...Ultra Instinct is still a thing...
- Goku (about Vegeta): "But I'll surpass him again -- just you wait." The major reason Vegeta is winning is not because he's stronger, but because he's literally taking Moro's power away from him. Also...STOP FORGETTING ULTRA INSTINCT EXISTS.
- Vegeta: "When I die again? Naturally I'm bound for hell." That has to be the STUPIDEST fucking line I've EVER heard come out of the mouth of any character in Dragon Ball. Did the Majin Boo arc not happen? Did Vegeta not gain the special privilege of having a body when he died? Did Vegeta not qualify as one of the "good people" that was brought back to life during the fight with Kid Boo? STOP. FORGETTING. IMPORTANT. DETAILS.
- Vegeta: "At the end of the day, I'm a villain." I take back the previous comment... That is the stupidest fucking line I've ever heard come out of the mouth of any character in Dragon Ball. I'm sorry, but.. that's just... SO fucking wrong. Vegeta is a lot of things, but a villain? Did his redemption story arc never happen? This is kind of shit I would expect to see in those kind of Dragon Ball fanfics where characters say stupid shit -- that doesn't compliment their original characterisation at all -- all because it sounded cool. Vegeta is not an Anti-Villain for fucks sake. He's not Magento or Dr Freeze. He's a good guy. I mean, for crying out loud, he was able to take part in a ritual that required a person to be righteous. This is character assassination and history revisionism at its worst in all of Dragon Ball.
- Once again, Vegeta spends too much time monologuing and doesn't kill the main villain. Vegeta has learned nothing from Resurrection F.
- Aaaaannnddd Vegeta come back crashing to Earth following him fucking up. There's even the story beat of the main villain knocking Vegeta back down to the ground after becoming more powerful again. It's the Cell arc all over again. Just... somehow even more poorly written.
- Woof. Fused Moro is hideous. What an awful design.

In conclusion... this chapter can go fuck itself.

Vegeta only kept his body upon death because he was too useful in the in the fight against Buu, and even Goku thought he got wiped out in hell. Also, the Namekian dragon isn't Yemma. We don't know how he will be judged upon death again.

This. Yemma out right states that he kept Vegeta's soul around after he died, most probably because of Boo, and specifically tells him "take your body and go help."

Him not being included among the bad guys when Porunga revived everyone can explained away as the dragons having their own parameters by which they judge whose good and whose not, but remember, even Goku was surprised to see Vegeta's halo disappear.

Vegeta only kept his body upon death because he was too useful in the in the fight against Buu, and even Goku thought he got wiped out in hell. Also, the Namekian dragon isn't Yemma. We don't know how he will be judged upon death again.

Vegeta at the very least is a morally good person. Saying he's a villain is fucking outrageous.

Now. But given he destroyed who-knows how many civilizations one can argue he and anyone else are well within their right to use the term for the rest of his life. He is being self-reflective, I guess.

He also did misread Goku since he thought for sure he wasn't going to be much of a challenged. Then Goku went Kaioken x4 and Vegeta proceeded to lose his shit. He also misread Freeza when he claimed that Freeza wouldn't get much stronger upon transforming and he also misread Piccolo by calling him 'that trash we killed on Earth' after he returned.

Funny how Piccolo just forgot that last one.

Holy Shit, you're right.

I think Toyotaro might just remember that one incident when Piccolo praised Vegeta for being able to bluff his way out of fighting Dr. Gero when he knew he couldn't win and called him a genius and he just went with that whole hog.

[DiscountDabi]

Random and scattered thoughts on Chapter 61:

- Vegeta (to Goku): "We underwent the same training but I'm more talented than you." A certain white haired transformation would disagree with that sentiment. And as if Super needed to shit even more on the "You're number one!" speech from the Majin Boo arc.
- I like the concept of Forced Spirit Fission. It's very unique technique that basically works as a reverse Genki Dama. Nice stuff.
- Piccolo: "Vegeta's never been one to misread an opponent's strength." What a load of bullshit. Vegeta does this constantly. Hell, he did that in this arc.
- The Namekian Dragon Balls can prevent corpses from rotting? Yeah... uh... bullshit. I don't buy that for a second.
- I just can't get into the whole "Vegeta is atoning for the sins of his past" shit that Toyotaro is trying to push. This was already done in the Majin Boo arc. And I find it hilarious Goku initially had no idea what "sins" Piccolo was referring to. Like, Goku isn't aware that Vegeta was a mass murderer. I mean, Vegeta has literally murdered hundreds of innocent people right in front of Goku!
- Fuck right off by trying to give Goku all the credit for changing Vegeta into a better person. That is revisionist history horseshit. Vegeta became a better person because he actually gave a shit about his family. The influence Goku had on Vegeta was (unintentionally) helping him come to peace with the idea that there is going to be someone better than you and it's okay to live with that. That was the endgame of Vegeta's character arc. It was not the catalyst for it. If anything was the catalyst for Vegeta's character growth it was when Future Trunks was killed was by Cell.
- Piccolo gushing about how Vegeta has changed as person was unnecessary, and came across a Toyotaro inserting himself as Piccolo to heap praise on character for aspects of his story that many fans are already aware of. It's unnecessary dialogue.
- Piccolo: "It looks like Vegeta manged to one-up you this time." Um... this has already happened in the past. This isn't some ground breaking achievement. And... ya know...Ultra Instinct is still a thing...
- Goku (about Vegeta): "But I'll surpass him again -- just you wait." The major reason Vegeta is winning is not because he's stronger, but because he's literally taking Moro's power away from him. Also...STOP FORGETTING ULTRA INSTINCT EXISTS.
- Vegeta: "When I die again? Naturally I'm bound for hell." That has to be the STUPIDEST fucking line I've EVER heard come out of the mouth of any character in Dragon Ball. Did the Majin Boo arc not happen? Did Vegeta not gain the special privilege of having a body when he died? Did Vegeta not qualify as one of the "good people" that was brought back to life during the fight with Kid Boo? STOP. FORGETTING. IMPORTANT. DETAILS.
- Vegeta: "At the end of the day, I'm a villain." I take back the previous comment... That is the stupidest fucking line I've ever heard come out of the mouth of any character in Dragon Ball. I'm sorry, but.. that's just... SO fucking wrong. Vegeta is a lot of things, but a villain? Did his redemption story arc never happen? This is kind of shit I would expect to see in those kind of Dragon Ball fanfics where characters say stupid shit -- that doesn't compliment their original characterisation at all -- all because it sounded cool. Vegeta is not an Anti-Villain for fucks sake. He's not Magento or Dr Freeze. He's a good guy. I mean, for crying out loud, he was able to take part in a ritual that required a person to be righteous. This is character assassination and history revisionism at its worst in all of Dragon Ball.
- Once again, Vegeta spends too much time monologuing and doesn't kill the main villain. Vegeta has learned nothing from Resurrection F.
- Aaaaannnddd Vegeta come back crashing to Earth following him fucking up. There's even the story beat of the main villain knocking Vegeta back down to the ground after becoming more powerful again. It's the Cell arc all over again. Just... somehow even more poorly written.
- Woof. Fused Moro is hideous. What an awful design.

In conclusion... this chapter can go fuck itself.

There is so much wrong with this take.

1. Just because you admit that someone is better than you doesn’t mean you can’t strive to try and close the gap still. Its like if I gave up on becoming a chef because I’ll never be as good as Gordon Ramsey.

2. You seem to have missed the purpose of Vegeta talking about going to Hell. Piccolo talks about how much Vegeta has changed and how much of a good guy henis now, while Vegeta doesn’t see it that way. He feels so much guilt for his past actions that he doesn’t think he can make up for it and that he is destined for Hell no matter what. That shows how noble and selfless he has become that he doesn’t think he can make up for his sins.

[Tai Lung]

The only interesting thing about Moro was its design because it looked different from others villains now it is basically Perfect cell but without any real evolution of a personality.

and don't get it wrong vegeta doesn't steal souls ....
remember Spirit = KI
it simply releases the energy that moro absorbs ..
boring ...

oh vegeta lost again ... that's something new.
oh an absorption of the villain .... that's something new.
I still don't see what elements supposedly Moro arc has ... the only really satisfactory thing for me is to see vegeta break the ability of Moro and humiliating him since he was honestly fed up

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

I hope to god that little conversation about hell with Moro and Vegeta doesn't mean that Vegeta going to end up killing himself or somehow dying in the process of this fight and go to the afterlife. I feel like some stupid foreshadowing is gonna show up and kill him.

Lemme put some fanboyism into motion.

HELL —> JANEMBA

I could see it happening, while Moro is on the ropes and is about to kill them all somehow, Vegeta decides "If I'm going to die, I refuse to die alone! We're going to hell together, Moro!"