"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Mad Swami]

People have unrealistic expectations either way. The amount of people I've seen hyping this up as a "Vegeta win" is only going to lead to a path of disappointment.

As people harp on RoF, it probably was the best chance for Vegeta to get a meaningful victory.

My expectations are for the 3 characters who've been built up to be able to handle Moro. Those 3 being Buu with his sealing ability, Vegeta with his new technique, and Goku with UI. Having Merus do all the work is the worst outcome possible.

Vegeta did get a victory in RF, not THE victory, but a victory. he did manage to beat Freeza down, he didn't kill him, but fans got what they wanted to see. If Vegeta can just beat Moro, while the overall victory is achieved another way, I'll be happy.

People wanted to see him kill Freeza, not just beat him down. There's a reason five years later people are still complaining about it.

100% agree. Vegeta gets robbed of justice. Super doesn't do great with him IMO

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

I agree with Lord Beerus and Marlone, I feel killing Merus off would be dumb and a waste of potential. This angel in training thing could easily be writing material in a future arc and killing him off against someone Beerus could deal with would be a waste.

If an angel has to die, let it be against a threat Beerus can't deal with for whatever reason and is literally too dangerous to live. No doubt after Moro is defeated, even if they don't kill Merus off, there are going to be more God of Destruction tier threats showing up and jumping out of the woodwork to ruin everything. With the existence of the multiverse, there are no doubt going to be MORE threats, potentially from other universes.

I may be the minority, but I think they should take a break from Beerus, Whis and Merus being in the spotlight after this arc. Future threats will show up to be more dangerous than Moro, and no doubt they'll have to write Beerus out of the plot so Goku and Vegeta can fight them.

[Mister_Popo]

All right, Fat Buu helped at the end of the Buu arc, but i still call that a pretty straight-forward victory.

It was Vegeta's idea to use the spirit bomb, bring back earth and its people to contribute energy, and use the last wish to restore Goku's power.
Dende, Kibito, and old Kai went to new Namek to summon the Dragon.
The dragon himself granting those very important wishes.
Vegeta and Fat Buu distracted Kid Buu multiple times in order for Goku to collect energy.
Mr. Satan to convinced everyone to give up their energy.
Goku charged and threw the spirit bomb.

That's anything but straight forward, as removing any one of the above parts would result in the entire plan falling apart.

Of course some other factors came into play. But in that case we may say Gohan didn't completely beat Cell on his own either.
Goku and Vegeta helped as well to accomplish that. Then we have to go back to Namek to see a straight win.
In comparison to how arcs ended during Supers run, i still consider this a victory from the classic protagonists.
For me it may count as 'Goku defeated Buu with the Spirit Bomb, with help from his friends'.
The protagonists still defeated the antagonists during those days, the invisible rule other things came into play in accomplishing or preventing the end goal, became a more typical trait during the revival.
Even in the classic movies, the heros basically simply used to defeat the villains in comparison to what we have now.

That was my main argument to argue, although some might love a victory from Vegeta which i can understand, the tendancy from recent years points in a different direction.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Kinda random, but seeing how this progresses, it feels like an Arc that (like most Arcs in super) will have little to no effect in the future.

No impact. Either way, I'm asking wild stuff since we can get anything, but where do you see the Manga going after Moro? Could it stop? Could we get a new Arc? Will it be irrelevant to the Moro arc?

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Kinda random, but seeing how this progresses, it feels like an Arc that (like most Arcs in super) will have little to no effect in the future.

No impact. Either way, I'm asking wild stuff since we can get anything, but where do you see the Manga going after Moro? Could it stop? Could we get a new Arc? Will it be irrelevant to the Moro arc?

I mean Moro's planet feast may have an impact om the story if it cannot be reversed. Moro and his army have been invading planets, stealing their valuables while Moro drains the planet's life energy. He's been doing this for two months and there aren't that many decent planets in U7 to befin with. The quality of life must be beyond awful, may make U9 look like paradise in comparison as Moro has been genociding entire populations with complete free reign.

[caire]

The irony of it all is, when considering a straight, clean win for Vegeta, since they defeated Buu they didn't actually manage to pull it off once during the run of Super.
Nor Vegeta alone, nor Goku alone, nor together. Not a single clean one.

This is precisely the issue. Every major win in Super has been on the basis that "technically" Goku won, or "technically" Vegeta won etc. The most subversive thing this arc could do, in terms of its place in Super, is to give Vegeta a clean and direct victory.

At the beginning of the arc, I did actually want to see Vegeta get that clean win. But now, I'm honestly quite enjoying the theorising as to who else will get involved. It does make things a bit less predictable. I still believe that Vegeta will "technically" get the win, though.

[caire]

Kinda random, but seeing how this progresses, it feels like an Arc that (like most Arcs in super) will have little to no effect in the future.

No impact. Either way, I'm asking wild stuff since we can get anything, but where do you see the Manga going after Moro? Could it stop? Could we get a new Arc? Will it be irrelevant to the Moro arc?

At worst, this arc may be a "filler" arc between now and the end of Z, so no more arcs after this (in the manga at least, assuming the movie is still in production). I think that's very unlikely though, and they'd have to do a hell of a lot in the chapters we've got left to be able to make that transition effectively.
You can't get much bigger scale than a guy who goes around literally snacking on planets, so the main thing about next arc (if there is one, which I think there will be) is - how on earth do they raise the stakes more?? I assume that's when you'd have to get the gods directly involved.

[Miracles]

To me this is a wait and revisit chapter with, possibly, the exception of Goku.

Goku's arc here is to get closer to dominating Ultra Instinct, which he did. This technique(hated how Merus called it a form) shouldn't be achieved easily. So while it might seem Goku didn't progress he did, a lot.
This looks extremely underwhelming but fares for a far more "realistic" and interesting progression than if Goku got it already.

Yeah, Goku not truly handling UI gives the audience a sense of future developments to look forward to with UI.

Oh, BTW, Dragonball manga also refered to SSJ as both techniques and forms. I don't see UI being called the same a problem.

[Mister_Popo]

The irony of it all is, when considering a straight, clean win for Vegeta, since they defeated Buu they didn't actually manage to pull it off once during the run of Super.
Nor Vegeta alone, nor Goku alone, nor together. Not a single clean one.

This is precisely the issue. Every major win in Super has been on the basis that "technically" Goku won, or "technically" Vegeta won etc. The most subversive thing this arc could do, in terms of its place in Super, is to give Vegeta a clean and direct victory.

At the beginning of the arc, I did actually want to see Vegeta get that clean win. But now, I'm honestly quite enjoying the theorising as to who else will get involved. It does make things a bit less predictable. I still believe that Vegeta will "technically" get the win, though.

The fact Vegeta would somehow be heavily involved in Moros defeat could indeed be satisfying, after all those years of waiting.
I am not pinning myself too much on 'one saving grace ending'.
For me it's the road how we get there that's even more important.
Vegeta now basically kicking Moros ass and the arc wrapping up in July or August would be disappointing for me, because the recent chapters have been kinda predictable. Within that context it would be a little bit too straight forward considering what we had since January, as we could basically predict what was going to happen in the next chapter. And it would even somehow devaluate the endgame if it would effectively be over within a month or two. They are already dragging it, let's drag it some more to give us at least an ending that was worth waiting for.
For me the destination isn't the main feature here, as we already know Moro isn't going to win, it's the enjoyment of the ride that counts the most.

[TKA]

Oh man, I don't think a lot of fans would like that.

The fans can cry me a river.

Cosigned. But I would say, in the words of the great Michael Jordan, "Fuck them fans."

I've said it a million times already, but Dragonball is at its best when it's doing things the fans DON'T want.

The problem is when you always do what fans don't want, that in itself becomes predictable. I'm hoping Toyotaro subverts expectations (Re: Vegeta's new technique saving the day), but I'm hoping he does it in a way we don't expect (Re: Vegeta's new technique not saving the day). There's a lot he could do.

[JulieYBM]

There's still time for Chaozu to save the day with a psychic attack that defeats Moro for good!

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Fuck, if that happens, that would kill the arc for me.

Same here. This would be the Zamasu arc all over again where you've got a great villain and overall good progress, only for everything to fall apart at the end.

Lets hope they don't pull anything and simply have Goku, Buu and Vegeta teaming up and using their own unique ways to defeat Moro and his remaining cronies.I feel killing Merus off would be a waste of potensial, seeing as this could easily be writing material for future arcs, it would be foolish to waste it on someone Beerus could easily kill.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Kinda random, but seeing how this progresses, it feels like an Arc that (like most Arcs in super) will have little to no effect in the future.

No impact. Either way, I'm asking wild stuff since we can get anything, but where do you see the Manga going after Moro? Could it stop? Could we get a new Arc? Will it be irrelevant to the Moro arc?

At worst, this arc may be a "filler" arc between now and the end of Z, so no more arcs after this (in the manga at least, assuming the movie is still in production). I think that's very unlikely though, and they'd have to do a hell of a lot in the chapters we've got left to be able to make that transition effectively.
You can't get much bigger scale than a guy who goes around literally snacking on planets, so the main thing about next arc (if there is one, which I think there will be) is - how on earth do they raise the stakes more?? I assume that's when you'd have to get the gods directly involved.

Well, with the existence of the multiverse, anything can happen. No doubt, once Moro is defeated, it'll pan out to see ANOTHER god of destruction tier threat showing up, maybe even in another universe as to broaden how big the multiverse is and how powers can come out of nowhere and have the gods be incompetent at doing their jobs for some damn reason, you know just write something about them not wanting to intervene and leaving the threats to our cast.

[Grimlock]

What goes around comes around, and Vegeta gave Freeza a taste of his medicine.

Yeah, except Vegeta killing Freeza, though.

I agree with this, Toei completely screwed up his fight in the movie, but thankfully made up for it in Super. If it wasn't satisfying seeing Vegeta punch Freeza's face in as they got to the ground, then I don't know what it.

I don't know how his fight played out in Toei's continuity, but if they extended it bit, then probably it's a plus but definitely still not enough.

And well, since you asked, Vegeta killing Freeza would be satisfying. Nothing's better than the sweet taste of revenge fulfilled.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Can I ask everyone something? While Goku and Vegeta will no doubt be getting stronger and fighting bigger threats, I feel like they shouldn't be leaving B+ fighters behind, like Gohan and the androids. I don't want Goku and Vegeta to be handling all these new upcoming threats, no doubt going to be God Of Destruction tier or close enough to where they are worthy opponents, and just have the rest of Earth's fighters constantly getting their faces shoved into the ground trying to fend these monsters off.

I don't want them to get in the habit of waiting on Goku and Vegeta to join the fray, while Gohan and co are getting tossed into buildings trying to defend their planet. I feel like they need to give them a bit of a boost in the future, because Empowered Saganbo was legit wrecking them and forcing them on the defensive. They can't just keep relying on Goku and Vegeta to show up, seeing as that can take ages. I'd rather Gohan and the others like 17,18 and maybe Piccolo to have a boost so they don't end up getting tossed into the dirt.

[Kagari]

Can I ask everyone something? While Goku and Vegeta will no doubt be getting stronger and fighting bigger threats, I feel like they shouldn't be leaving B+ fighters behind, like Gohan and the androids. I don't want Goku and Vegeta to be handling all these new upcoming threats, no doubt going to be God Of Destruction tier or close enough to where they are worthy opponents, and just have the rest of Earth's fighters constantly getting their faces shoved into the ground trying to fend these monsters off.

I don't want them to get in the habit of waiting on Goku and Vegeta to join the fray, while Gohan and co are getting tossed into buildings trying to defend their planet. I feel like they need to give them a bit of a boost in the future, because Empowered Saganbo was legit wrecking them and forcing them on the defensive. They can't just keep relying on Goku and Vegeta to show up, seeing as that can take ages. I'd rather Gohan and the others like 17,18 and maybe Piccolo to have a boost so they don't end up getting tossed into the dirt.

I mean, they gave characters like 17 and Gohan huge boosts for the Universe Survival arc so they could be relevant. The only limitation is the imagination of the writers.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Can I ask everyone something? While Goku and Vegeta will no doubt be getting stronger and fighting bigger threats, I feel like they shouldn't be leaving B+ fighters behind, like Gohan and the androids. I don't want Goku and Vegeta to be handling all these new upcoming threats, no doubt going to be God Of Destruction tier or close enough to where they are worthy opponents, and just have the rest of Earth's fighters constantly getting their faces shoved into the ground trying to fend these monsters off.

I don't want them to get in the habit of waiting on Goku and Vegeta to join the fray, while Gohan and co are getting tossed into buildings trying to defend their planet. I feel like they need to give them a bit of a boost in the future, because Empowered Saganbo was legit wrecking them and forcing them on the defensive. They can't just keep relying on Goku and Vegeta to show up, seeing as that can take ages. I'd rather Gohan and the others like 17,18 and maybe Piccolo to have a boost so they don't end up getting tossed into the dirt.

I mean, they gave characters like 17 and Gohan huge boosts for the Universe Survival arc so they could be relevant. The only limitation is the imagination of the writers.

Still, I'd rather the writers not keep relying on Goku and Vegeta to rush on the scene. Usually they have the same old "Wait for the heavy hitters to arrive as we get curbstomped by the new enemies."

It gets old and I'd rather we not have to constantly have it be a waiting game of "Where the hell are Goku and Vegeta because we are getting kicked into the dirt!? Can someone help us cause half of us are on the verge of death!?"

[caire]

The irony of it all is, when considering a straight, clean win for Vegeta, since they defeated Buu they didn't actually manage to pull it off once during the run of Super.
Nor Vegeta alone, nor Goku alone, nor together. Not a single clean one.

This is precisely the issue. Every major win in Super has been on the basis that "technically" Goku won, or "technically" Vegeta won etc. The most subversive thing this arc could do, in terms of its place in Super, is to give Vegeta a clean and direct victory.

At the beginning of the arc, I did actually want to see Vegeta get that clean win. But now, I'm honestly quite enjoying the theorising as to who else will get involved. It does make things a bit less predictable. I still believe that Vegeta will "technically" get the win, though.

Vegeta now basically kicking Moros ass and the arc wrapping up in July or August would be disappointing for me, because the recent chapters have been kinda predictable. Within that context it would be a little bit too straight forward considering what we had since January, as we could basically predict what was going to happen in the next chapter. And it would even somehow devaluate the endgame if it would effectively be over within a month or two. They are already dragging it, let's drag it some more to give us at least an ending that was worth waiting for.
For me the destination isn't the main feature here, as we already know Moro isn't going to win, it's the enjoyment of the ride that counts the most.

Yeah, I've personally really enjoyed the ride of this arc and its slower pacing. Now that we're in the climax, it would be quite unsatisfying for it to end within two or three chapters, after nearly two years of buildup. I agree, I really don't mind them dragging this final fight on a bit - as long as Vegeta gets his "technically", that's good enough

[ssj3kakarot]

But by in large, thats how these types of comics play out.

Strong heroes fight bad guy. Bad guy gets stronger. Stronger Hero shows up. Defeats bad guy.

It's done that way to showcase the strength of the heavy hitters. Take Saitama. No one could have beaten Boros but OPM. Thats the point of having Boros, to showcase how strong Baldy is.

I agree that the Earthlings need a power up to be helpful, but really, I wanna see the biggest, strongest, fastest do battle against each other. The key is getting some of the beloved Z warriors up to snuff so they can hang with the big dogs. Piccolo, he needs to get some ass pull power up, but make it believable, something with Zalama, or the Book of Legends, but make him a monster. I'd be all for it. Have Gohan take training seriously, man, thatd be awesome to see him like that.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Can I ask everyone something? While Goku and Vegeta will no doubt be getting stronger and fighting bigger threats, I feel like they shouldn't be leaving B+ fighters behind, like Gohan and the androids. I don't want Goku and Vegeta to be handling all these new upcoming threats, no doubt going to be God Of Destruction tier or close enough to where they are worthy opponents, and just have the rest of Earth's fighters constantly getting their faces shoved into the ground trying to fend these monsters off.

I don't want them to get in the habit of waiting on Goku and Vegeta to join the fray, while Gohan and co are getting tossed into buildings trying to defend their planet. I feel like they need to give them a bit of a boost in the future, because Empowered Saganbo was legit wrecking them and forcing them on the defensive. They can't just keep relying on Goku and Vegeta to show up, seeing as that can take ages. I'd rather Gohan and the others like 17,18 and maybe Piccolo to have a boost so they don't end up getting tossed into the dirt.

I mean, they gave characters like 17 and Gohan huge boosts for the Universe Survival arc so they could be relevant. The only limitation is the imagination of the writers.

Still, I'd rather the writers not keep relying on Goku and Vegeta to rush on the scene. Usually they have the same old "Wait for the heavy hitters to arrive as we get curbstomped by the new enemies."

It gets old and I'd rather we not have to constantly have it be a waiting game of "Where the hell are Goku and Vegeta because we are getting kicked into the dirt!? Can someone help us cause half of us are on the verge of death!?"

Yes I don't disagree. If there's something that they can fix, it's definitely the assignment of roles to characters. I'm not a big writer, but before making a new Arc, I would plan out some stuff for the secondary characters to do.

Some way for them to feel relevant and not 'ally fodder'. I don't think that either Toyotaro or Toriyama think this much. They just write a story of an enemy, some new characters and how Vegeta and Goku will deal with them. The other characters are just an asset that is used just to show that they exist.

I don't mind having Goku and Vegeta take out the heavy hitters, since they are the ones with Power beyond gods. But having them return to an Earth, fully under the control of secondary characters would be appealing. The stakes would come with the major enemy.

You may say that the current Arc doesn't deviate from this concept, but it's not planned out imo. Don't throw secondary characters into the Arc just because. Provide a small introduction to what they currently do, to how they react to the situation, to what and how they will grow to counter the threat.

I would ask for some superior writing from a global hit of a Manga. I legit know amateurs that simply lack the resources to produce something amazing. Examining their characters in every aspect before getting them into a new situation. Considering how this impacts them.

I feel like it's more of a 'let's plan out our new Arc based on the villain's powers' rather than 'let's plan out our new Arc based on a situation. Giving each character a goal, having them face their own demons for the Arc'.