Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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ZombieVito
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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:32 pm

perucho1990 wrote: As crazy as it sounds, I'm going with kaioken.

Remember that Krillin and Goku were going to spar again at the end of episode 76, maybe Goku taught him Kaioken because Krillin has now perfect Ki control and IIRC you need that in order to use that technique.

BTW
This is my ranking so far without including the Gods and fused characters

Tier 0:
Genkidama Trunks

Tier 1:
Jiren

Tier 2:
KK Goku
Full Power Toppo
Scythe Black
Unrestricted Hit(without any knoweldge)

Tier 3:
Unrestricted Hit (with knowledge)
Pre Scythe Black
Blue Goku
Blue Vegeta
SSJ Ikari Trunks
Supressed Toppo
Amped Bergamo

Thoughts on this, guys?
Shouldn't Vegeta be stronger there?

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by perucho1990 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:44 pm

Right, It should be:

SSJB Vegeta
Pre Scythe Black
SSJB Goku

And before anyone mentions the beam clash with Merged Zamasu, Goku had to sacrifice both of his arms to win the clash.

Oh and does anyone see any ToP participant surpassing Genkidama Trunks?

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:24 pm

I'm also not sure Hit should be that high. He got beat by Goku way too easily once his time dimension got broken.

The question I have is how much stronger did Goku get post Future Trunks arc. Did he reach Vegeta? Or is he still under him?

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:20 am

So I had an idea ... and this may come across as really stupid. I'm just throwing out an idea, so forgive me if it seems idiotic.

I stumbled upon this entry. It is clearly a page created for something that was a mistake in the coloring of Super Saiyan Goku during the filler Other World Tournament arc.

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Super_Saiyan_power
Image

This "Super Saiyan Power" is described as an ability that Goku uses in his Base form in order to utilize some of the Super Saiyan energy without actually transforming into a Super Saiyan 1.


Now, I wanted to extend this idea to the supposed Saiyan Beyond God form. What if we said that the supposed Saiyan Beyond God form is like a "Super Saiyan Blue Power". Goku could be dipping into the power of Super Saiyan Blue in his Base form without actually transforming, resulting in a very strong Base.

It's just a thought ...

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Roronoa-pt » Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:07 am

pacz360 wrote:So anyone wanna predict what's krillin new technique will be?
I do think it's a combination of his classic moves ( Taiokyen, Zanzouken, the multiple KI blast that he used against the Saibamen & Frieza soldiers in Rof saga ) not a brand new technique.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by pacz360 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:47 am

ZombieVito wrote:I'm also not sure Hit should be that high. He got beat by Goku way too easily once his time dimension got broken.

The question I have is how much stronger did Goku get post Future Trunks arc. Did he reach Vegeta? Or is he still under him?
He still one shot ssjb goku post trunks saga and still gave goku a hard time when the fought again which resulted in double draw

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:36 am

perucho1990 wrote:
pacz360 wrote:So anyone wanna predict what's krillin new technique will be?
As crazy as it sounds, I'm going with kaioken.

Remember that Krillin and Goku were going to spar again at the end of episode 76, maybe Goku taught him Kaioken because Krillin has now perfect Ki control and IIRC you need that in order to use that technique.

BTW
This is my ranking so far without including the Gods and fused characters

Tier 0:
Genkidama Trunks

Tier 1:
Jiren

Tier 2:
KK Goku
Full Power Toppo
Scythe Black
Unrestricted Hit(without any knoweldge)

Tier 3:
Unrestricted Hit (with knowledge)
Pre Scythe Black
Blue Goku
Blue Vegeta
SSJ Ikari Trunks
Supressed Toppo
Amped Bergamo

Thoughts on this, guys?
I'd say you've just got Black too high, he should be below Goku, Vegeta and Trunks. Possibly considerably so seeing as Merged Zamasu is Black's power and Zamasu's power added together and then much greater still and Goku was able to overpower him and Vegeta and Trunks did so together.

Goku, Vegeta and Trunks should be at least half as strong as Merged Zamasu and it wouldn't make any sense for Black to be the same.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:10 pm

pacz360 wrote:
ZombieVito wrote:I'm also not sure Hit should be that high. He got beat by Goku way too easily once his time dimension got broken.

The question I have is how much stronger did Goku get post Future Trunks arc. Did he reach Vegeta? Or is he still under him?
He still one shot ssjb goku post trunks saga and still gave goku a hard time when the fought again which resulted in double draw
Hit was giving Goku trouble because of his techniques. He "killed" him because he especially targeted his heart when unguarded.

I see nothing that suggests him stronger than Goku.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by pacz360 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:15 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
pacz360 wrote:
ZombieVito wrote:I'm also not sure Hit should be that high. He got beat by Goku way too easily once his time dimension got broken.

The question I have is how much stronger did Goku get post Future Trunks arc. Did he reach Vegeta? Or is he still under him?
He still one shot ssjb goku post trunks saga and still gave goku a hard time when the fought again which resulted in double draw
Hit was giving Goku trouble because of his techniques. He "killed" him because he especially targeted his heart when unguarded.

I see nothing that suggest him stronger than Goku.
Define unguarded here goku went blue and was about to attack him right before hit knocks him out besides there not far apart in strength considering there ended in a draw.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:26 pm

pacz360 wrote:
ZombieVito wrote:
pacz360 wrote: He still one shot ssjb goku post trunks saga and still gave goku a hard time when the fought again which resulted in double draw
Hit was giving Goku trouble because of his techniques. He "killed" him because he especially targeted his heart when unguarded.

I see nothing that suggest him stronger than Goku.
Define unguarded here goku went blue and was about to attack him right before hit knocks him out besides there not far apart in strength considering there ended in a draw.
Goku didn't think Hit would hit (Damn these puns!) him from that distance so he went to attack and left himself open and got punched the the heart.

I still don't see anything that implies Hit being stronger. The only reason he got the upper hand is because of his techniques, same as the U6 tournament.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bulma's Foot Masseur » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:45 pm

ChiefWamsutta wrote:So I had an idea ... and this may come across as really stupid. I'm just throwing out an idea, so forgive me if it seems idiotic.

I stumbled upon this entry. It is clearly a page created for something that was a mistake in the coloring of Super Saiyan Goku during the filler Other World Tournament arc.

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Super_Saiyan_power
Image

This "Super Saiyan Power" is described as an ability that Goku uses in his Base form in order to utilize some of the Super Saiyan energy without actually transforming into a Super Saiyan 1.


Now, I wanted to extend this idea to the supposed Saiyan Beyond God form. What if we said that the supposed Saiyan Beyond God form is like a "Super Saiyan Blue Power". Goku could be dipping into the power of Super Saiyan Blue in his Base form without actually transforming, resulting in a very strong Base.

It's just a thought ...
I really see no point in coming up with explanations for why a Buu-era Base Goku is still around, because whether he permanently absorbed the power of Super Saiyan God in BoG or re-achieved an incredibly strong base after training with Whis anyway, it's clearly a Goku that doesn't exist anymore. People think there needs to be a weak Goku so that it makes sense when Gohan isn't instantly killed in a bout with him, but that's acting like all these other characters aren't getting stronger via their exposure to these Godly events.

Characters aren't just going to get stronger, they're going to be relevant on the same stage as Super Saiyan Blue - because they're going to pull things out of their ass just like Future Trunks did.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by dragonballgeek » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:56 pm

Bulma's Foot Masseur wrote:
ChiefWamsutta wrote:So I had an idea ... and this may come across as really stupid. I'm just throwing out an idea, so forgive me if it seems idiotic.

I stumbled upon this entry. It is clearly a page created for something that was a mistake in the coloring of Super Saiyan Goku during the filler Other World Tournament arc.

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Super_Saiyan_power
Image

This "Super Saiyan Power" is described as an ability that Goku uses in his Base form in order to utilize some of the Super Saiyan energy without actually transforming into a Super Saiyan 1.


Now, I wanted to extend this idea to the supposed Saiyan Beyond God form. What if we said that the supposed Saiyan Beyond God form is like a "Super Saiyan Blue Power". Goku could be dipping into the power of Super Saiyan Blue in his Base form without actually transforming, resulting in a very strong Base.

It's just a thought ...
I really see no point in coming up with explanations for why a Buu-era Base Goku is still around, because whether he permanently absorbed the power of Super Saiyan God in BoG or re-achieved an incredibly strong base after training with Whis anyway, it's clearly a Goku that doesn't exist anymore. People think there needs to be a weak Goku so that it makes sense when Gohan isn't instantly killed in a bout with him, but that's acting like all these other characters aren't getting stronger via their exposure to these Godly events.

Characters aren't just going to get stronger, they're going to be relevant on the same stage as Super Saiyan Blue - because they're going to pull things out of their ass just like Future Trunks did.
Shame isn't it?? All this pulling out of their butts power scaling could've been solved if they evened out the playing field a little while in Z. Or at least gave the others a Years worth of training with Whis etc.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:27 am

You never know, Krillin, Tien and Yamcha....Well maybe not Yamcha because he retired but they may never have been so far off from Base Goku as what we thought.

Power level lists always had them in the hundreds of thousands, maybe a couple million or so at best. They could be in the tens of millions, all we know is that they're weaker than Base Goku but he's gotta be in the tens of millions himself.

Infact the filler had them beat someone like Olibu who was a match for weighted Pikkon who was a match for Base Goku. One of the movies had Tien being a match for Future Trunks.

They might not be nearly as weak as we all thought.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:48 pm

I think it would be to way too generous Krillin the strongest earthling have a battle power higher than supressed Final Form Freeza (Namek) considering he slacked off for years. If all earthlings team up against Freeza they would perish with his Third Form.
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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by pacz360 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:12 pm

Noah wrote:I think it would be to way too generous Krillin the strongest earthling have a battle power higher than supressed Final Form Freeza (Namek) considering he slacked off for years. If all earthlings team up against Freeza they would perish with his Third Form.
Depends on how he performs this week honestly
Besides I want to know is how strong buu could be from training?

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Ki Breaker » Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:24 pm

pacz360 wrote:
Noah wrote:I think it would be to way too generous Krillin the strongest earthling have a battle power higher than supressed Final Form Freeza (Namek) considering he slacked off for years. If all earthlings team up against Freeza they would perish with his Third Form.
Depends on how he performs this week honestly
Besides I want to know is how strong buu could be from training?
He probably would be shown crushing SS goku and holding his own against blue for a while but eventually losing
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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Animelover5487 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:05 pm

Noah wrote:I think it would be to way too generous Krillin the strongest earthling have a battle power higher than supressed Final Form Freeza (Namek) considering he slacked off for years. If all earthlings team up against Freeza they would perish with his Third Form.
Well Kuririn did perform pretty decently against Basil in Goku and Gohan's minds. Not even Freeza at full power could do anything to Basil.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:04 pm

Ki Breaker wrote:He probably would be shown crushing SS goku and holding his own against blue for a while but eventually losing
I think SSJ3 might be enough to defeat Mr. Boo, he surpassing his Pure counterpart and being able to push SSJB Goku is at most unexpected.
Animelover5487 wrote:Well Kuririn did perform pretty decently against Basil in Goku and Gohan's minds. Not even Freeza at full power could do anything to Basil.
That scene was just a image battle in both Goku and Gohan's mind, they know Krillin is skilled but could his skills overcome the large difference between their powers? I think not, but let's see.
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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bulma's Foot Masseur » Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:24 am

My theory on power levels is still that efficiency of training is determined by motivation and motivation is determined by how exposed to a high power level a character is + how wide the gap is between that power level and their own. Freeza got as powerful as he did in RoF because he had a specific target in mind to overcome. Vegeta became a Super Saiyan, a Super Saiyan 4, and a Super Saiyan God because he saw someone else do it first. I don't see why this wouldn't apply to every other character in the series.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by IKevinX » Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:13 am

Bulma's Foot Masseur wrote:My theory on power levels is still that efficiency of training is determined by motivation and motivation is determined by how exposed to a high power level a character is + how wide the gap is between that power level and their own. Freeza got as powerful as he did in RoF because he had a specific target in mind to overcome. Vegeta became a Super Saiyan, a Super Saiyan 4, and a Super Saiyan God because he saw someone else do it first. I don't see why this wouldn't apply to every other character in the series.
I have the same theory. It explains the zenkai boosts on Namek.
Also explains how their powers didn't significanly go up during timeskips. And also why Goku and Vegeta didn't increase that much in that 3 years ROSAT trip, but Vegeta gained a significant amount during those 6 months.
Obviously, the God of Destruction doesn't count as exposition because he is still leagues above.
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