Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[LowRyder2005]

That instance of SS Trunks signalling to Goku is a little suspect.

Freeza's and Tagoma's enormous power weren't present anymore, but Piccolo AND Gohan had been training together for nearly a year, increasing in power tremendously. It's possible that their increases were enough to allow SS Trunks to just edge out the power needed to signal to Goku from Beerus's planet.

It's also possible that Goku simply got better at sensing Ki from such vast distances that Trunks flaring up as a Super Saiyan after the events of Freeza's return, intentionally or not.

It was also my rationale back when the scene first aired. I'd like to rewatch the scenes in question, however. Again, I'm pretty lazy when it comes to finding a tidbit of info in an episode when I don't even remember the number. Doesnt' help that Herms' Fact Cheker stopped fifty episodes ago.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Is this real, Toei Animation?
Are you going to make Gohan hold his own against Goku? With a few hours remaining for the tournament?
Someone tell me the logic of this?

Neither did Freeza become that strong in such a short time.

What's the problem with the text, though? I don't personally think it's that hard to believe as long as we know he doesn't beat or rival in power Super Saiyan Blue Goku. "Holding his own" could simply mean he gives SS1-2-3 Goku a fight, and it also usually portrays some degree of difficulty in doing that.

[TheSaiyanGod]

That instance of SS Trunks signalling to Goku is a little suspect.

Freeza's and Tagoma's enormous power weren't present anymore, but Piccolo AND Gohan had been training together for nearly a year, increasing in power tremendously. It's possible that their increases were enough to allow SS Trunks to just edge out the power needed to signal to Goku from Beerus's planet.

It's also possible that Goku simply got better at sensing Ki from such vast distances that Trunks flaring up as a Super Saiyan after the events of Freeza's return, intentionally or not.

It was also my rationale back when the scene first aired. I'd like to rewatch the scenes in question, however. Again, I'm pretty lazy when it comes to finding a tidbit of info in an episode when I don't even remember the number. Doesnt' help that Herms' Fact Cheker stopped fifty episodes ago.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Is this real, Toei Animation?
Are you going to make Gohan hold his own against Goku? With a few hours remaining for the tournament?
Someone tell me the logic of this?

Neither did Freeza become that strong in such a short time.

What's the problem with the text, though? I don't personally think it's that hard to believe as long as we know he doesn't beat or rival in power Super Saiyan Blue Goku. "Holding his own" could simply mean he gives SS1-2-3 Goku a fight, and it also usually portrays some degree of difficulty in doing that.

Gohan has been training with Piccolo for a year, but what is the significant increase in power he has had? He only returned to his prime with 24 hours left for the tournament, and there is still a chasm between Goku and Gohan that could not be reduced with Few hours of training.

It's just a few hours, that does not make sense. I even hope the synopsis is referring to SSJ, SSJ2 or 3, even though Goku has said he would use all his power

[LowRyder2005]

Gohan has been training with Piccolo for a year, but what is the significant increase in power he has had? He only returned to his prime with 24 hours left for the tournament, and there is still a chasm between Goku and Gohan that could not be reduced with Few hours of training.

It's just a few hours, that does not make sense. I even hope the synopsis is referring to SSJ, SSJ2 or 3, even though Goku has said he would use all his power

Y'know, I actually agree with all of that (starting with the fact that Gohan should only be marginally stronger than ever). I still think it can work without issue in many cases though. For instance, in my old PLs chart (for the manga, though) I had Ultimate/Chou Gohan about 5 times as strong as SS3 Goku. Given Goku's training regime, he would possibly be as a SS3 more of a match for the Ultimate Gohan of old than ever before.

Of course, if you follow the notion that the gap was less severe (or even in Goku's favor, regardless of, say, the recent V Jump), then the current Gohan giving SS2 Goku trouble would raise some more questions.
I would put my money on Gohan's solo fight being written as a Cabba vs. Vegeta/ Future Trunks vs. Goku type of situation, but I'm with you when saying that Ultimate Gohan edging out a supposedly "serious" SSB would be pure, unadultered baloney in almost every scenario I can think of (and I do hope it doesn't come to that).

[Bullza]

So Ultimate Gohan, now more powerful than ever will hold his own against Goku. Should be interesting to see at what level of Goku he holds his own against.

I bet it'll be some bullshit like he holds his own against Blue Goku or something.

And Frieza is coming back. He should be the third strongest ideally by a considerable amount too. Maybe we'll get some idea of how the others compare to him.

[Doctor.]

What's the strongest team U7 could possibly make with the characters that they have available?

Goku, Vegeta, Future Trunks, Freeza, #17, Gohan, Majin Boo, Oob, Cell, Piccolo?

[Lord Beerus]

So Ultimate Gohan, now more powerful than ever will hold his own against Goku. Should be interesting to see at what level of Goku he holds his own against.

I bet it'll be some bullshit like he holds his own against Blue Goku or something.

They gotta hype up Gohan, so I can imagine a scenario where Ultimate Gohan and SSJB Goku fight evenly, until it's revealed that Goku holding back.

[GodKaio-Ken]

What's the strongest team U7 could possibly make with the characters that they have available?

Goku, Vegeta, Future Trunks, Freeza, #17, Gohan, Majin Boo, Oob, Cell, Piccolo?

Not sure Uub is strong enough yet and I'm not sure FT is just readily available...so not counting original movies or known filler. Also note I'm basing this off of where there power levels were thought to be before serious inflation. Meaning these characters could have been inflated as well if given the chance:

Goku
Vegeta
Buu
Freeza
Cell
Piccolo
18
17
Goten
Trunks

I think Goten/Trunks could be substituted for Krillin/Tien depending how strong you think the kids are comparatively.

[Doctor.]

What's the strongest team U7 could possibly make with the characters that they have available?

Goku, Vegeta, Future Trunks, Freeza, #17, Gohan, Majin Boo, Oob, Cell, Piccolo?

Not sure Uub is strong enough yet and I'm not sure FT is just readily available...so not counting original movies or known filler. Also note I'm basing this off of where there power levels were thought to be before serious inflation. Meaning these characters could have been inflated as well if given the chance:

Goku
Vegeta
Buu
Freeza
Cell
Piccolo
18
17
Goten
Trunks

I think Goten/Trunks could be substituted for Krillin/Tien depending how strong you think the kids are comparatively.

What about Dabura then?

[GodKaio-Ken]

What's the strongest team U7 could possibly make with the characters that they have available?

Goku, Vegeta, Future Trunks, Freeza, #17, Gohan, Majin Boo, Oob, Cell, Piccolo?

Not sure Uub is strong enough yet and I'm not sure FT is just readily available...so not counting original movies or known filler. Also note I'm basing this off of where there power levels were thought to be before serious inflation. Meaning these characters could have been inflated as well if given the chance:

Goku
Vegeta
Buu
Freeza
Cell
Piccolo
18
17
Goten
Trunks

I think Goten/Trunks could be substituted for Krillin/Tien depending how strong you think the kids are comparatively.

What about Dabura then?

True. I left him out since I'm not sure demons can participate? If he could...he would leave just one spot for Tien/Krillin or the kids.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Well, Vegeta will train on RoSaT again according to the synopses. He seems to be the only one who remembers that Hall (which could have been useful for all participants).

Do you think it will have any relevant power increase? If it happens the same as in the Black Saga and the same is happening with the tournament participants (Gohan, Boo), it can get very strong in a short time
We could also have indications of this increase with Goku's own words when realizing that he trained there again.

Anyway, I think it was time for him to do something. It was very erased in these episodes

[Almighty Majin]

Do you guys think that Golden Freeza will still be considered stronger than SSJB when he returns?

[TAF108]

Well, I'm actually pretty happy about Chou Gohan's return. It's the first real DBS power-up that feels earned to me. (Other than Vegeta training with Whis). Gohan realized his weakness in the RoF Arc, and since then he's trained on & off since then to regain his power. And in the Zen Exhibition Match, we saw that he was definitely at the top of his game, but he still hadn't reached his glory days. Now that he's finally there, it feels like solid pay off. I don't really feel this conflicts with previous scenes in Super, depending on how you scale.

That said, it'll be kind of sad that they ruin their first good power-up in a while by giving Gohan an insane boost in order to match Goku. That said, I don't really believe in the "Two-Base Theory", I just believe writing is inconsistent. That said, Goku should be stronger Gohan. And they're definitely going to treat it as such.

Not to mention, the excellent Piccolo buff. He's on his way.

While I feel the DBS anime has had to retcon a lot of things, though the manga's scaling has always seemed tighter to me. So I'm interested to see how they tackle certain boosts or lack thereof. I'm predicting the rank for top tiers there will be strikingly different from the anime.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Do you guys think that Golden Freeza will still be considered stronger than SSJB when he returns?

Well, that's something I'm afraid of.

I believe that due to training in RoSaT after the fight against Golden Freeza, and the following battles that they faced, they should be much stronger than him (we even have passages of Goku himself for example, saying that Vegeta had become stronger after the tournament) .
Vegeta still trained in RoSaT for a few months in the anime, if one year has passed since that Saga, Goku has kaioken, and several other factors

As they will hardly have time to train (since they are so desperate) I think Freeza will not get stronger

[Triggered Vegeta]

Do you guys think that Golden Freeza will still be considered stronger than SSJB when he returns?

Compared to Goku & Vegeta(Current) he shouldn't be anywhere near their power. He'd still be considered God tier tho.

[Almighty Majin]

Do you guys think that Golden Freeza will still be considered stronger than SSJB when he returns?

Well, that's something I'm afraid of.

I believe that due to training in RoSaT after the fight against Golden Freeza, and the following battles that they faced, they should be much stronger than him (we even have passages of Goku himself for example, saying that Vegeta had become stronger after the tournament) .
Vegeta still trained in RoSaT for a few months in the anime, if one year has passed since that Saga, Goku has kaioken, and several other factors

As they will hardly have time to train (since they are so desperate) I think Freeza will not get stronger

Yeah exactly they SHOULD be stronger but the writers might still think Golden Freeza is above SSJB Goku and Vegeta anyways for.... reasons. If this is the case then that would mean that Freeza could possibly be the strongest (mortal) opponent they have faced so far.

[TAF108]

Do you guys think that Golden Freeza will still be considered stronger than SSJB when he returns?

Well, that's something I'm afraid of.

I believe that due to training in RoSaT after the fight against Golden Freeza, and the following battles that they faced, they should be much stronger than him (we even have passages of Goku himself for example, saying that Vegeta had become stronger after the tournament) .
Vegeta still trained in RoSaT for a few months in the anime, if one year has passed since that Saga, Goku has kaioken, and several other factors

As they will hardly have time to train (since they are so desperate) I think Freeza will not get stronger

Yeah exactly they SHOULD be stronger but the writers might still think Golden Freeza is above SSJB Goku and Vegeta anyways for.... reasons. If this is the case then that would mean that Freeza could possibly be the strongest (mortal) opponent they have faced so far.

Here's to hoping they can at least keep the fact that Goku & Vegeta have vastly improved, consistent. This is like grabbing Golden Oozaru Bebi & expecting him to be relevant in the Shadow Dragons Saga. Freeza was a threat for SSJB's when he intially appeared, but they've grown in stride since then. Hell, it's like comparing SSJ Goku on Namek, to SSJ Goku from the Artificial Human Arc. Goku's form is the same, but he as the user has drastically improved. I also hope that they remember Freeza's stamina weakness. Unless they retcon it, DBS' hell is Freeza in a cocoon. No way for him to improve. He should have the same problems, along with no longer being a prevalent threat. (Even if he is stronger than most of the people in U7, he'd be far from a top tier if he tried to fight current Vegeta or Goku, or Toppo or Hit if you look at other universes.)

[TheMikado]

$20 says Frieza is stronger than all of them.

[dbgtFO]

$20 says Frieza is stronger than all of them.

Given that he has not been stated to have been surpassed by unmerged mortals, that would kinda be consistent with that.
Would be pretty dumb of course.

[Draconic]

What's the strongest team U7 could possibly make with the characters that they have available?

Goku, Vegeta, Future Trunks, Freeza, #17, Gohan, Majin Boo, Oob, Cell, Piccolo?

Goku, Vegeta, Golden Freeza and Future Trunks are a given.

17 and Ultimate Gohan should be next.

Majin Buu at quite the distance between them.
Piccolo is shown to be at least on par, if not stronger than SSJ2 Gohan, so he's next.

Then, I would take Goten and Trunks. They're weaker than Perfect Cell (and maybe Dabura), but since the tournament is only 48 minutes, Gotenks could make up for both of them in just their regular Super Saiyan form. They should be able to keep up for 18 minutes, after which they could fuse and when cornered still have SSJ3 as an ace up their sleave. That's not mentioning SSJ2, which shouldn't be as straining as 3, but since we don't know how a fusion works with I'm not taking it into account.
It depends if you want to take the risk of having one less fighter for half the battle, at the cost of strength or just taking the safe route with two weaker guys, in which case Cell and Dabura are the next choices.

Uub I feel shouldn't be as strong as Kid Buu of the bat. He's above a regular human and, when angry, strong enough to give base Goku some trouble, but I don't think he's stronger than a Super Saiyan.
If he is that strong, yeah, your choices are pretty much correct.

[Bullza]

It would definitely be some bullshit if Golden Frieza was still stronger.

Super Saiyan Rose Black originally was already much more powerful than Golden Frieza. Whis said that Goku and Vegeta working together would take down Frieza but Black was kicking the two of them and Trunks around at the same time and Goku and Vegeta were even stronger at this point.

Then Black powered up twice and by the end of the saga Goku and Vegeta were stronger than him.

There should be no conceivable way that Golden Frieza should be stronger but you never know what'll happen in this show.