Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[RandomGuy96]

https://twitter.com/herms98/status/894447693010845697



My boy Freeza. LOL at your RoSaT training Vegeta

Per the team rundown, Goku's strength is No.1 on the U7 team, Freeza's is on par (遜色ない) with Goku's, and Kuririn is the strongest Earthling.

Tenshithan BTFO.

[JulianStyles]

https://twitter.com/herms98/status/894447693010845697



My boy Freeza. LOL at your RoSaT training Vegeta

Per the team rundown, Goku's strength is No.1 on the U7 team, Freeza's is on par (遜色ない) with Goku's, and Kuririn is the strongest Earthling.

Tenshithan BTFO.

This is no more proof than when Toshio says Tien is a decendant of Aliens and no one wanted to listened. Instead called him names and stupid. No more proof when the Grand Priest said all the weakest fighters have been eliminated. But people didnt want to accept that. No more proof than in DVD bio books Tien is not listed as Earthling. No more proof than a Japanese rpg game book owned by liscenced DB companies had Tiens power level 800k to Krillins 600k. No more proof when Tiens voice actor says he wasnt Earthling. Or when Akira said he wasnt human. SMH

Its the same tired lazy biography they keep copy and pasting. They said it in ROF material and watching the movie didnt make sense. Its in Toeis tournament bios. Yet hes first eliminated. So having a magazine say it is nothing new. They came out with rankings of expectations. Krillin was 5 stars 17 was 4 stars. At this point its getting sad that people are clinging on to this statement. Its like they are playing a game to please a pocket of fans while the series tells a different story. Krillin has never backed up that title. Android saga-present. So he either has a higher PL but a really bad fighter and mentally weak. Or the people that are shown to do better than him in each saga are not in the same classification as him.

[Animelover5487]

https://twitter.com/herms98/status/894447693010845697



My boy Freeza. LOL at your RoSaT training Vegeta

Per the team rundown, Goku's strength is No.1 on the U7 team, Freeza's is on par (遜色ない) with Goku's, and Kuririn is the strongest Earthling.

Tenshithan BTFO.

This is no more proof than when Toshio says Tien is a decendant of Aliens and no one wanted to listened. Instead called him names and stupid. No more proof when the Grand Priest said all the weakest fighters have been eliminated. But people didnt want to accept that. No more proof than in DVD bio books Tien is not listed as Earthling. No more proof than a Japanese rpg game book owned by liscenced DB companies had Tiens power level 800k to Krillins 600k. No more proof when Tiens voice actor says he wasnt Earthling. Or when Akira said he wasnt human. SMH

Its the same tired lazy biography they keep copy and pasting. They said it in ROF material and watching the movie didnt make sense. Its in Toeis tournament bios. Yet hes first eliminated. So having a magazine say it is nothing new. They came out with rankings of expectations. Krillin was 5 stars 17 was 4 stars. At this point its getting sad that people are clinging on to this statement. Its like they are playing a game to please a pocket of fans while the series tells a different story. Krillin has never backed up that title. Android saga-present. So he either has a higher PL but a really bad fighter and mentally weak. Or the people that are shown to do better than him in each saga are not in the same classification as him.

The difference is Kuririn being the strongest Earthling is an official statement by Toei and AT. AT never said Tenshinhan was a descendant of aliens, that was the Daizenshuu that made the statement which is meaningless as they still label him as an Earthling anyway. the Grand Priest didn't say all the weakest fighters were eliminated, he just said that the fights would get more intense. Kuririn being eliminated first doesn't mean shit, especially when his elimination was a result of him letting his guard down rather than actually being beaten.

Tenshinhan has done nothing to back up being called stronger than Kuririn. Kuririn was already rivaling Ten prior to the Freeza arc as shown by the 1,770 and 1,830 reading of their battle powers going off the Daiz and Kuririn became many times stronger afterwards when he got his potential unlocked by Guru shooting up way past the Ginyu Force by the end of the arc, while it's left ambiguous how much stronger Ten became on King Kai's planet seeing as the Ginyu Force battle is filler.

[JulianStyles]

Tenshithan BTFO.

This is no more proof than when Toshio says Tien is a decendant of Aliens and no one wanted to listened. Instead called him names and stupid. No more proof when the Grand Priest said all the weakest fighters have been eliminated. But people didnt want to accept that. No more proof than in DVD bio books Tien is not listed as Earthling. No more proof than a Japanese rpg game book owned by liscenced DB companies had Tiens power level 800k to Krillins 600k. No more proof when Tiens voice actor says he wasnt Earthling. Or when Akira said he wasnt human. SMH

Its the same tired lazy biography they keep copy and pasting. They said it in ROF material and watching the movie didnt make sense. Its in Toeis tournament bios. Yet hes first eliminated. So having a magazine say it is nothing new. They came out with rankings of expectations. Krillin was 5 stars 17 was 4 stars. At this point its getting sad that people are clinging on to this statement. Its like they are playing a game to please a pocket of fans while the series tells a different story. Krillin has never backed up that title. Android saga-present. So he either has a higher PL but a really bad fighter and mentally weak. Or the people that are shown to do better than him in each saga are not in the same classification as him.

The difference is Kuririn being the strongest Earthling is an official statement by Toei and AT. AT never said Tenshinhan was a descendant of aliens, that was the Daizenshuu that made the statement which is meaningless as they still label him as an Earthling anyway. the Grand Priest didn't say all the weakest fighters were eliminated, he just said that the fights would get more intense. Kuririn being eliminated first doesn't mean shit, especially when his elimination was a result of him letting his guard down rather than actually being beaten.

Tenshinhan has done nothing to back up being called stronger than Kuririn. Kuririn was already rivaling Ten prior to the Freeza arc as shown by the 1,770 and 1,830 reading of their battle powers going off the Daiz and Kuririn became many times stronger afterwards when he got his potential unlocked by Guru shooting up way past the Ginyu Force by the end of the arc, while it's left ambiguous how much stronger Ten became on King Kai's planet seeing as the Ginyu Force battle is filler.

Just like the word Japanese use for mortal is also the same word for human. Zamasu called all species Nigen. Were they human? No. In episode 100 Kale was called a human punching bag. Is she human? No. Its a language and context we dont understand. So when Akira or anyone is asked straight up is Tien Earthling they say no or dont give a straight answer. Because the word has many meanings. The word directly translates to "terrestial human". Which Tien is not. By every standard 17 and 18 are Earthlings. But we put them in a sub category. For the Japanese that see Tien as a decendant or Aliens or associated with the god erlong-shen then hes in a sub category. Hell the Daizenshuu has a pie chart of different types of Earthlings. And Gohans in there.

After all the build up. Being first eliminated means a whole lot. For anyone. Because Akira is like who should I choose and he picks Krillin. If the story was flipped no one would be using the excuse being eliminated first doesnt mean anything.

You labelled power levels. So in a court you would have to prove that Krillin did surpass Tien. So lets run down when they came back to life after Namek.

Android saga/Cell saga:

Krillin-has no impact in the story combat wise. Multiple occasions cowers away. And is mostly a errand boy. Is first to fall to a Cell jr.

Tien- Goku sends Krillin away and keeps Tien against android 19 and 20. Tien shows bravery in trying to fight 17 ans 18. Tien holds off 2nd form Cell using Ki blast that were more powerful than anything Piccolo or 16 could do at the time. Even in the manga Tien is shown standing taking shots from Cell jrs. In Anime filler Tien leads Yamcha and Krillin to help Gohan. Cell blows away the fighters from weakest to strongest order. Yamcha,Krillin,Tien,Piccolo.

Buu saga:

Krillin- Has a lot of screen time and dialogue but has retired from training. And does nothing of impact combat or story wise.

Tien-His presence is brief. He used that time to save pivitol characters that would be key in the final fight. He deflected a blast from a being with a SS3 super sayain and Piccolo absorbed. All on top of his own power. Tien still came and stood face to face with him.

BOG:

Krillin-Hasnt trained in 11 years and while everyone takes their shot in stoping thr God of Destruction Beerus. He in both move and series telling does nothing.

Tien-Bravely even after seeing Buu and Gotenks knocked down goes after Beerus.

ROF:

Krillin-Does kick ass but in the movie gets overwhelmed and needs saving by Gohan. In the series is frozen struck and needed to be saved by Tien.

Tien- In both movie and series he completely dominates his assigned soilders, never needing help or struggles. Also again saves Krillin from a sneak attack.

TOP:

Krillin-Gets a good show in Goku recruiting and has a hand in eliminating 3 opponents. But if first eliminated from U7.

Tien-Bad showing in thw recruitment arc. But under vastlt different circumstances. Has eliminated one opponent, had effective attacks like the Taioken. Has survived Kales attack, Ribrianes hypnosis. And is currently on his own with no end anytime soon.

So I dont know about you. But each arc you cant point to anything Krillin does that says he surpased Tien. While the author give Tien meaningful comb roles. The same has not been the same for Krillin.

But this will just end up in a back and forth of that sentence and the vague meaning to whom it may apply to. What a person who believes Tien is stronger have, is they have the satisfaction of seeing him in action and more impactful displays. You can tune into Super each week for the next month and see him. While Krillin is on the bench.

[Bullza]

It's been a while since I've done this. Now that we know there aren't two bases it was worth doing again. For now I have not taken any possible retcon into account, I just take it as it is.

Tier 0

Zeno | Future Zeno

Tier 1

Grand Priest
Vados
Whis

Tier 2

Jiren
Sword of Hope Trunks
Super Saiyan Blue Vegito
Beerus
Champa
Fused Zamasu (Half Corrupted)
Super Saiyan Blue Goku Kaioken | Toppo
Fused Zamasu (Halo)

Tier 3

Super Saiyan Blue Goku | Vegeta | Golden Frieza
Super Saiyan Rage Trunks
Hit
Super Saiyan Rose Black
Super Saiyan God Goku

Tier 4

Giant Bergamo
Ultimate Gohan
Android 17
Super Saiyan Berserk Kale
Black
Super Saiyan 3 Goku
Super Saiyan 2 Goku | Vegeta
Super Saiyan 2 Caulifla
Super Saiyan 2 Future Trunks
Zamasu

Tier 5

Super Saiyan Goku | Vegeta
Super Saiyan Caulifla | Cabba | Kale
Super Saiyan Future Trunks
Magetta
Frost (Final Form)
Kahseral

Tier 6

Goku | Vegeta | Frieza (Final Form)
Caulifla | Cabba | Bergamo
Future Trunks
Frost (Third Form)

Tier 7

Enraged Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta
Beerus (Under "10%")
Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks
Piccolo
Frieza (First Form)
Super Saiyan 2 Gohan
Super Saiyan Gohan

Tier 8

Gohan
Tagoma
Buu
Basil (Drug Enhanced)
Basil | Lavender
Super Saiyan Kid Trunks | Goten
Android 18

Tier 9

Kid Trunks | Goten
Krillin
Tien
Botamo

So that's it, Kale, Gohan and Android 17 are still a mystery. People might wonder why Base Goku and Base Gohan are so far apart, well it what the show kinda presented. Base Goku should be above Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks while Super Saiyan 2 Gohan was weaker than Ultimate Gohan in the Buu Arc. The doesn't really make sense I know but maybe it'll be clarified more in the future.

If there was a retcon and they did nerf Base Goku I'd still put him around Buu's level.

Otherwise for the most part I think it kinda works. I didn't bother including all the fodder in the Tournament, they'd mostly be in Tier 8 and 9 though.

[Bulma's Foot Masseur]

To the people still subscribing to the two-base theory, how did Vegeta enter the league of Saiyan Beyond God ("he got there on his own" - Goku, etc.) before barely knowing what God Ki even was?

People are quick to treat Goku and Vegeta the exact same when it comes to God forms, yet it's indicated they were achieved as differently as possible.

[emperior]

To the people still subscribing to the two-base theory, how did Vegeta enter the league of Saiyan Beyond God ("he got there on his own" - Goku, etc.) before barely knowing what God Ki even was?

People are quick to treat Goku and Vegeta the exact same when it comes to God forms, yet it's indicated they were achieved as differently as possible.

The mystery of Goku and Vegeta's base power is still there, then. Hopefully episode 104 will clear the confusion.

[Mertor]

Just like the word Japanese use for mortal is also the same word for human. Zamasu called all species Nigen. Were they human? No. In episode 100 Kale was called a human punching bag. Is she human? No. Its a language and context we dont understand. So when Akira or anyone is asked straight up is Tien Earthling they say no or dont give a straight answer. Because the word has many meanings. The word directly translates to "terrestial human". Which Tien is not. By every standard 17 and 18 are Earthlings. But we put them in a sub category. For the Japanese that see Tien as a decendant or Aliens or associated with the god erlong-shen then hes in a sub category. Hell the Daizenshuu has a pie chart of different types of Earthlings. And Gohans in there.

After all the build up. Being first eliminated means a whole lot. For anyone. Because Akira is like who should I choose and he picks Krillin. If the story was flipped no one would be using the excuse being eliminated first doesnt mean anything.

You labelled power levels. So in a court you would have to prove that Krillin did surpass Tien. So lets run down when they came back to life after Namek.

Android saga/Cell saga:

Krillin-has no impact in the story combat wise. Multiple occasions cowers away. And is mostly a errand boy. Is first to fall to a Cell jr.

Tien- Goku sends Krillin away and keeps Tien against android 19 and 20. Tien shows bravery in trying to fight 17 ans 18. Tien holds off 2nd form Cell using Ki blast that were more powerful than anything Piccolo or 16 could do at the time. Even in the manga Tien is shown standing taking shots from Cell jrs. In Anime filler Tien leads Yamcha and Krillin to help Gohan. Cell blows away the fighters from weakest to strongest order. Yamcha,Krillin,Tien,Piccolo.

Buu saga:

Krillin- Has a lot of screen time and dialogue but has retired from training. And does nothing of impact combat or story wise.

Tien-His presence is brief. He used that time to save pivitol characters that would be key in the final fight. He deflected a blast from a being with a SS3 super sayain and Piccolo absorbed. All on top of his own power. Tien still came and stood face to face with him.

BOG:

Krillin-Hasnt trained in 11 years and while everyone takes their shot in stoping thr God of Destruction Beerus. He in both move and series telling does nothing.

Tien-Bravely even after seeing Buu and Gotenks knocked down goes after Beerus.

ROF:

Krillin-Does kick ass but in the movie gets overwhelmed and needs saving by Gohan. In the series is frozen struck and needed to be saved by Tien.

Tien- In both movie and series he completely dominates his assigned soilders, never needing help or struggles. Also again saves Krillin from a sneak attack.

TOP:

Krillin-Gets a good show in Goku recruiting and has a hand in eliminating 3 opponents. But if first eliminated from U7.

Tien-Bad showing in thw recruitment arc. But under vastlt different circumstances. Has eliminated one opponent, had effective attacks like the Taioken. Has survived Kales attack, Ribrianes hypnosis. And is currently on his own with no end anytime soon.

So I dont know about you. But each arc you cant point to anything Krillin does that says he surpased Tien. While the author give Tien meaningful comb roles. The same has not been the same for Krillin.

But this will just end up in a back and forth of that sentence and the vague meaning to whom it may apply to. What a person who believes Tien is stronger have, is they have the satisfaction of seeing him in action and more impactful displays. You can tune into Super each week for the next month and see him. While Krillin is on the bench.

You are going to do everything in order to prove that Tien>>>Kuririn, despite the fact that Tien was thrown aside after Saiyan Saga? I am reading your posts for quite a while and it is quite amusing, especially pointing Tien as "Alien" where it is nowhere stated that he is. However, if you want to keep this, alien thingy still going (despite the fact, that Tien is listed as earthling by author of the show itself), then Kuririn is alien to (lack of nose). Coming back to the topic though, a few points.

1. It is interesting, that you try to show that Tien>Kuririn by ommiting all sagas before Imperfect Cell saga. Interesting, judging by the fact, that in Saiyan Saga, Tien only "feat" was losing a hand in fight in Nappa, then dying, while Kuririn was tangling with them. You also ommited that Tien was death during Namek Saga, while Kuririn was on frontlines.
2. Gohan was also send back away while he is clearly stronger than all humans. So quite weird argument here.
3. Are you trying to suggest that Kikoho in raw power>>>Android 16>>Piccolo=C17? If it is so, then Tien is quite an ass, for not using it against androids and thus ending the saga. Kikoho accomplished nothing and if you want to suggest that it has so much raw power, to damage Semi-Perfect Cell, then explain why Tien didn't kill androids with it.
4. This argument with Cell Jr's is also quite weird. First of all, both humans were put down quickly not able to defend themselves against Cell Jr.
5. If you want to use anime fillers then give up. They literaly mean nothing. However, if you really insist to do so, then you have a problem, because frankly, fillers put Kuririn in higher position than Tien. Example: He being a last hope of earth if Goku and Vegeta will be death (Buu Saga), or him tangling with Garlic Jr during Garlic Jr Saga filler. Not to mention Kuririn tangling with Imperfect Cell in filler.
6. Kuririn retired from fighting (was it ever stated that he is not trying? He is an martial artist, he will still keep in shape)
7. While people tend to use Cell/Buu argument as a prove of Tien strenght. He deflected a weak ki blast aimed and Satan and Dende and he still used Kikoho to do so, then he was kicked out cold. Not to much of a feat if you ask me.
8. Gohan asked Kuririn to move others to safety. He done his task, while Tien, was knocked out cold
9. I know that you want to show Tien bravery. I cannot deny that fact. However in each of instances of his bravery he acomplishes little to nothing. Nappa ragdolled him, C17 knocked him out easily, he stopped Semi-Perfect Cell true, still against Buu he also acomplished nothing. The same against Berrus, when he was put down by a simple throw. His courage usually equals with his downfall.
10. Tien used Kikoho against soldiers. Both Kuririn and Tien easily defated their adversaries.
11. Tien has awesome technique called Taiyoken known by Goku and Kuririn and improved by Kuririn himself. Kuririn in this tournament do a lot, but saving his wife was his downfall. Tien and Roshi eliminated one guy. Still lot of a work for them, to catch up to him.


I can understand, that you are big fan of Tien. However more and more in your posts I can see, that you try to modify the reality of certain statements, feats, actions etc. in order to fit into your image. You try to point out that Tien was more important by showing sagas in which he did something, "forgetting" about sagas when Kuririn was a key player of the team. You put up fillers with Tien, forgetting many fillers in which Kuririn was shown as a capable fighter (believe me, there were many instances). You try to use argument that Tien>Kuririn do the fact that Kuririn was already eliminated but this argument is biased due to the fact that:
Basil, Bergamo, Lavenda, (one of magical girls), half of pride troppers were eliminated. Unless you want to tell me that Tien>Trio of Dangers, pride troppers and other eliminated guys, then this argument is invalid.

Still I want to give you a chance. Tell me, or give me a proof in what way, Tien was able to catch to Kuririn after the Saiyan Saga. Remember that Tien died with a power level of less than 2000 while Kuririn in a few days on Namek, jumped from 1800, to 13000, to about 30 000 (Ginyu Fight) and then at least 100 000 - 200 000 in order to be help against Frieza. How Tien catched up to that (Remember, that the series already proven that mountain training means nothing in context of gains - Though super tends to change that). Thus until authors are not going to provide me with direct statement (or fight between both characters), then I am never going to believe that Tien>Kuririn. Quick question to the community, though. While people like Tien so much? He is literally, boring character.

[Loputousu]

To the people still subscribing to the two-base theory, how did Vegeta enter the league of Saiyan Beyond God ("he got there on his own" - Goku, etc.) before barely knowing what God Ki even was?

People are quick to treat Goku and Vegeta the exact same when it comes to God forms, yet it's indicated they were achieved as differently as possible.

...Why would he only "barely" know what god ki was?

Whis knows all about how to train efficiently with your ki. He made that clear in the ep when Vegeta was convincing him to train him. He said the kind of training Vegeta was doing wouldn't allow him to progress far. It's not a stretch to think that Whis taught Vegeta how to train when training him.

Goku took the short cut by learning how to use your ki efficiently by experiencing the power of SSG. Vegeta took the longer way.

This is a complete nonissue.

[JazzMazz]

To the people still subscribing to the two-base theory, how did Vegeta enter the league of Saiyan Beyond God ("he got there on his own" - Goku, etc.) before barely knowing what God Ki even was?

People are quick to treat Goku and Vegeta the exact same when it comes to God forms, yet it's indicated they were achieved as differently as possible.

...Why would he only "barely" know what god ki was?

Whis knows all about how to train efficiently with your ki. He made that clear in the ep when Vegeta was convincing him to train him. He said the kind of training Vegeta was doing wouldn't allow him to progress far. It's not a stretch to think that Whis taught Vegeta how to train when training him.

Goku took the short cut by learning how to use your ki efficiently by experiencing the power of SSG. Vegeta took the longer way.

This is a complete nonissue.

What is an issue though, is that we are two years into Super and we still don't have any clear idea on what God ki actually is, and what it can do.

[TheDipDap1234]

It's been a while since I've done this. Now that we know there aren't two bases it was worth doing again. For now I have not taken any possible retcon into account, I just take it as it is.

Tier 0

Zeno | Future Zeno

Tier 1

Grand Priest
Vados
Whis

Tier 2

Jiren
Sword of Hope Trunks
Super Saiyan Blue Vegito
Beerus
Champa
Fused Zamasu (Half Corrupted)
Super Saiyan Blue Goku Kaioken | Toppo
Fused Zamasu (Halo)

Tier 3

Super Saiyan Blue Goku | Vegeta | Golden Frieza
Super Saiyan Rage Trunks
Hit
Super Saiyan Rose Black
Super Saiyan God Goku

Tier 4

Giant Bergamo
Ultimate Gohan
Android 17
Super Saiyan Berserk Kale
Black
Super Saiyan 3 Goku
Super Saiyan 2 Goku | Vegeta
Super Saiyan 2 Caulifla
Super Saiyan 2 Future Trunks
Zamasu

Tier 5

Super Saiyan Goku | Vegeta
Super Saiyan Caulifla | Cabba | Kale
Super Saiyan Future Trunks
Magetta
Frost (Final Form)
Kahseral

Tier 6

Goku | Vegeta | Frieza (Final Form)
Caulifla | Cabba | Bergamo
Future Trunks
Frost (Third Form)

Tier 7

Enraged Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta
Beerus (Under "10%")
Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks
Piccolo
Frieza (First Form)
Super Saiyan 2 Gohan
Super Saiyan Gohan

Tier 8

Gohan
Tagoma
Buu
Basil (Drug Enhanced)
Basil | Lavender
Super Saiyan Kid Trunks | Goten
Android 18

Tier 9

Kid Trunks | Goten
Krillin
Tien
Botamo

So that's it, Kale, Gohan and Android 17 are still a mystery. People might wonder why Base Goku and Base Gohan are so far apart, well it what the show kinda presented. Base Goku should be above Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks while Super Saiyan 2 Gohan was weaker than Ultimate Gohan in the Buu Arc. The doesn't really make sense I know but maybe it'll be clarified more in the future.

If there was a retcon and they did nerf Base Goku I'd still put him around Buu's level.

Otherwise for the most part I think it kinda works. I didn't bother including all the fodder in the Tournament, they'd mostly be in Tier 8 and 9 though.

This is good. Only thing I disagree with is 18's placement. I think she's stronger than base Cabba and Caulifla considering that she beat Shosa who was on par with Kettol in episode 97. Kettol was seen easily dodging Caulifla's attacks, and gave her trouble with his energy blasts.

[JazzMazz]

In episode 104, I really hope they don't act like SSG is more powerful than SSB, because that would just be dumb and would contradict literally the 100 times they said it was the stronger form. I'll be very happy if they treat SSG as the weaker form and actually provide a good reason why Goku is using it(though I don't think they'll be able to provide the latter).

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

You know what'd be a cool way to re-introduce SSG?

Have it be that all this time, Goku and Vegeta have been using their SS forms to channel the power of SSG, turning it into SSB. Thus, for the longest time, they haven't ever thought of trying to turn into SSG again (or for the first time in Vegeta's case), since they could basically already do that with SSB, with more power and complete Ki control at the cost of somewhat inferior stamina to FPSS.

Well, maybe have Goku use what he's learned thus far to attempt to channel the power of SSG in base form, something he's never been able to do before, ultimately culminating in success for the fight against Dypso. He could be surprised that he managed to do this without turning SS, and find the benefits quite nice, since there's not as much stamina drain as SSB whilst still having a decent amount of power. I've long since theorized that only their SS forms were capable of channeling SSG's power effectively, with their base forms only tasting that power and not actually transforming and getting stronger. Perhaps now is when that all changes.

Hell, have this serve as the next step in achieving whatever secret power Goku is hypothesized to ascend to to fight Jiren that will supposedly end the reign of the gods.

[Marlowe89]

In episode 104, I really hope they don't act like SSG is more powerful than SSB, because that would just be dumb and would contradict literally the 100 times they said it was the stronger form. I'll be very happy if they treat SSG as the weaker form and actually provide a good reason why Goku is using it(though I don't think they'll be able to provide the latter).

If he's using it against Dyspo, I think it'd be kinda neat if SSG was revealed to be his fastest form. That would certainly give it some utility that SSB doesn't necessarily have without making it outright stronger and would also provide a narrative purpose for the thinner build of SSG compared to every other Super Saiyan transformation.

[ekrolo2]

I see the on going saga of "How the fuck Goku & Vegeta's powers even work" continues in earnest. I'll seriously bust a nut laughing if the anime gives SSG to Vegeta too even if there's literally no fucking way you can logically give it to him in this version of events.

[Bulma's Foot Masseur]

...Why would he only "barely" know what god ki was?

Because he said something along the lines of "Is this the secret to divine energy?!" while compressing his ki in Whis's time chamber, implying it wasn't something he had been previously doing.

When Goku said Vegeta's strength was unrecognizable upon landing on Planet Beerus, Vegeta clearly wasn't Saiyan Beyond God-ing if compressing one's ki was something he hadn't even been told about until AFTER Goku arrived. With that in mind what about Vegeta's power was so unrecognizable? Just a stronger normal base that Goku was comparing to his own? I'd say that's most likely.

[Draconic]

I see the on going saga of "How the fuck Goku & Vegeta's powers even work" continues in earnest. I'll seriously bust a nut laughing if the anime gives SSG to Vegeta too even if there's literally no fucking way you can logically give it to him in this version of events.

What? Why is there no way?

[ryan s]

people need to let the two base theory die, if you honestly think that they are going to say Goku has been using SSG in base then you don't know anything about dragon ball super. the two base theory has always been a poor theory made by fans that made little to no sense and was made to downplay the characters for example base vegeta being far above SSJ3 Gotenks

Goku hasn't been using any God ki in his base form, stop brining head canon into a show that has implied nothing of the sort, he absorbed all of the god power therefore according to this theory he should be able to use all of it not just some in fact that is how he turns SSB!!! coming up with a irrefutable argument does not make it a fact or true and in fact i have constantly pointed out it's flaws

[ekrolo2]

I see the on going saga of "How the fuck Goku & Vegeta's powers even work" continues in earnest. I'll seriously bust a nut laughing if the anime gives SSG to Vegeta too even if there's literally no fucking way you can logically give it to him in this version of events.

What? Why is there no way?

Because they've made it clear rituals = god, training with Whis = gets just Blue.

Suddenly having Vegeta get it, fuck, this form at aaallll showing up after they used the SSGod being a temporary power up thing from the movies causes even more problems.

[Basako]

The opening shows Goku blue being surrounded with a red aura and finally fighting Jiren with black hair. I thought for a while it was SSBKK, now that it may be the SSG. About the black hair, maybe Goku got unlocked his ultimate.

I don't know, we'll have to wait and see how all this comes.