Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[SupremeKai25]

The moment Zamas uses light of justice, the narration states it didn't heal him TWICE [Vegeta/Gowasu and Shin] but is not regenerating. You keep stating the opposite that it powered him up with no text to prove your point. You may be right, however, TOEI's bad writing didn't state it. Therefore it is inconsistent and doesn't substantiate you. BTW, nothing mentioned about immortal Zamasu "overwriting" mortal Zamas soul when fused either.

His IMMORTALITY didn't heal him, that's where his regeneration comes from. Zamasu injured himself with the lightning, half his body remained scarred as a result, and his immortality didn't trigger the regeneration.

And again, the whole of episode 67 debunks your theory. That's your problem. You take the statements of Gowasu and Shin at face value, when they were later on proved wrong. That's literally the point of episode 67. To show that their confidence was misplaced, and Shin and Gowasu pretty much give up hope in that episode, because they realized they were outplayed, that they didn't account for what would happen after Zamasu's regeneration was permanently shattered.

Anyway, let's agree to disagree. This is going nowhere and the others in this thread have moved on, so I don't see the point in continuing this.

[Hugo Boss]

Cabba can solo Z with Super Saiyan.

What makes you think that he can beat SS2+ level people?

He's from super. Base Goku dbs anime> z verse cause he absorbed God in his base

This is just an old fallacy repeated by some folks that didn’t quite keep up with the flow of events since Goku fought Beerus. Actually, the Super Saiyan form of Goku had a temporary boost while he was fighting Beerus. After a few months, Goku still needed Whis’ help to train his way up to master SSGod and surpass it with SSBlue. So, that doesn’t really answer my question. How exactly can Cabba beat veteran Saiyans that have experienced levels above Super Saiyan?

[Grand Marshal 1]

Yeah I kinda agree. Super Goku should be able to reach SSJ3 Buu saga levels in Base by the beginning of the ToP. Even SSJ3 Goku from the battle with Kid Buu should be quite the challenge, still, as they would be near equals.

Even after the ToP, he might be able to knock down Enraged Buuhan while at Base, however Z Super Vegito is still stronger and he would probably need Vegeta to take him down.


At the time of the Tournament of the Destroyers, Cabba shouldn't be all that stronger than Vegeta. Remember how Vegeta had to fight Magetta previously and how he was trying to lure Cabba into believing that he can defeat him to unlock SSJ. I can assure you that I see him around 25% Base Vegeta level. It is still a good boost. 5 to 10 times stronger than a Base from the Buu saga. I can see him going SSJ and rivaling SSJ2 level and perhaps low SSJ3, but he gets stompted by Buu and SSJ3 high levels. Fusion is out of the question and so is Enraged Buuhan.

[DBZ Macky]

Vegeta stopping Cabba's punch with nothing but his forehead(finally, some use for that thing).

So, I'm starting to believe Cabba was not even close to Vegeta, not as SS therefore neither in base, and that Vegeta was just teaching a lesson, I mean he didn't even block it, he didn't put up his hands, he just stood there with his massive forehead.

Okay, first of all - lmao at the forehead part.

But yeah, this is just one of the reasons why I think most people think Vegeta >> Cabba at that point.

He's from super. Base Goku dbs anime> z verse cause he absorbed God in his base

Just because he's from Super, does that mean DBS Piccolo would be able to defeat Super Buu easily?
That should be the case if he really was on par with SS2 Gohan, who defeated Botamo easily in his base form - seemingly putting him on par with Base Goku from the Universe 6 tournament in his own base form.

I'm almost certain that Goku/Vegeta are a lot stronger than the Universe 6 Saiyans, especially after how Goku just keeps up with SS2 Caulifla in his base form by "fighting skillfully".

Thing is, I have no idea how strong they are actually supposed to be then.

[ZombieVito]

Cabba can solo Z with Super Saiyan.

What makes you think that he can beat SS2+ level people?

Because he can already beat Boo arc SS3 people in just his base form?

This Vegeta is exactly as strong as Cabba and look what happened:

[p-hyvo]

Just because he's from Super, does that mean DBS Piccolo would be able to defeat Super Buu easily?
That should be the case if he really was on par with SS2 Gohan, who defeated Botamo easily in his base form - seemingly putting him on par with Base Goku from the Universe 6 tournament in his own base form.

Not to say but yes, indeed ToP piccolo stomps all of z.
He's easily a low God tier fighter, if not low ssb tier counting that he wasn't that weaker than gohan , that was totally a low ssb tier.
No matter what, present days piccolo just stomps all of z by himself.
He trained, then he trained gohan and made him a ssb tier fighter, so he can't be a lot weaker that that. Lowballing, he's a low God tier ( imo a fine position for him is at 65 or 70% of god or blue goku, depending on if you wanna Lowball or not)

[p-hyvo]

This message is totally on it's own, I jusy wanted to do a base saiyans scale (BoToP)

Goku>= vegeta >caulifla >cabba>niggrishi>>>koitsukai=panchia=bollarator> gohan

In base, gohan is the weakest saiyan at the tournament, and still, lowballing, considering his feats against lavender, ToP gohan should be at least fat buu tier in base . When he faced the poisonous wolf, he was low good buu tier beccause of the fact that the 3 wolves were all in that tier, with bergamot being the stronger and being aa bit, stronger that good buu. that makes his ssj pretty much stronger than anyone in z maybe not counting vegetto If you really want to lowball the buu saga.
We had

Base Goku >bergamo >base gohan>=lavender>good buu>basil
In that fragment of the story. Even if I had to say that it is not that realistic, in my opinion. Imo, Goku should have much more stronger by that point, but still dbs anime has a weakness in the fact that it's written by a lot of different people that disregard each others work and scaling

[Grand Marshal 1]

This message is totally on it's own, I jusy wanted to do a base saiyans scale (BoToP)

Goku>= vegeta >caulifla >cabba>niggrishi>>>koitsukai=panchia=bollarator> gohan

In base, gohan is the weakest saiyan at the tournament, and still, lowballing, considering his feats against lavender, ToP gohan should be at least fat buu tier in base . When he faced the poisonous wolf, he was low good buu tier beccause of the fact that the 3 wolves were all in that tier, with bergamot being the stronger and being aa bit, stronger that good buu. that makes his ssj pretty much stronger than anyone in z maybe not counting vegetto If you really want to lowball the buu saga.
We had

Base Goku >bergamo >base gohan>=lavender>good buu>basil
In that fragment of the story. Even if I had to say that it is not that realistic, in my opinion. Imo, Goku should have much more stronger by that point, but still dbs anime has a weakness in the fact that it's written by a lot of different people that disregard each others work and scaling

With that much I can agree. ToP levels are Buu saga tier. Post ToP Bases can only be handled BY super Vegito, who is defeated without the need for someone to even go SSJ. Perhaps some team fighting with Bases.

[Hugo Boss]

Cabba can solo Z with Super Saiyan.

What makes you think that he can beat SS2+ level people?

Because he can already beat Boo arc SS3 people in just his base form?

This Vegeta is exactly as strong as Cabba and look what happened:

That’s an old fallacy as well. Cabba was nowhere near as strong as Vegeta even when they fought in Champa Arc, let alone in this fight, when Vegeta was noted to be much stronger. Not to mention Base Goku and Vegeta were still weaker than the good Majin Boo in the Tournament of Power.

[p-hyvo]

What makes you think that he can beat SS2+ level people?

Because he can already beat Boo arc SS3 people in just his base form?

This Vegeta is exactly as strong as Cabba and look what happened:

Not to mention Base Goku and Vegeta were still weaker than the good Majin Boo in the Tournament of Power.

Wrong lol
Goku in base demostrated to be stronger than bergamot, who is stronger than good buu

[Hugo Boss]

Because he can already beat Boo arc SS3 people in just his base form?

This Vegeta is exactly as strong as Cabba and look what happened:

Not to mention Base Goku and Vegeta were still weaker than the good Majin Boo in the Tournament of Power.

Wrong lol
Goku in base demostrated to be stronger than bergamot, who is stronger than good buu

Base Goku lost to the good Majin Boo in his calm state, so he has no chance against the enraged Boo. Bergamo only surpass Majin Boo when he powers-up by absorbing Goku’s attacks.

[DBZ Macky]

Not to mention Base Goku and Vegeta were still weaker than the good Majin Boo in the Tournament of Power.

Wrong lol
Goku in base demostrated to be stronger than bergamot, who is stronger than good buu

Base Goku lost to the good Majin Boo in his calm state, so he has no chance against the enraged Boo. Bergamo only surpass Majin Boo when he powers-up by absorbing Goku’s attacks.

I'm pretty sure that was Majin Buu after training in the form we call "Fit Buu", which would most likely be much stronger than the Buu we saw at the Zen exhibition tournament.

Goku>= vegeta >caulifla >cabba>niggrishi>>>koitsukai=panchia=bollarator> gohan

It might be possible, but it just seems odd that Gohan would be that much weaker than Cabba, when he was able to defeat Botamo easily (who gave U6 arc Goku some trouble). Also, why is Niggrishi >>> Koitsukai when he doesn't have any feats?

[p-hyvo]

Wrong lol
Goku in base demostrated to be stronger than bergamot, who is stronger than good buu

Base Goku lost to the good Majin Boo in his calm state, so he has no chance against the enraged Boo. Bergamo only surpass Majin Boo when he powers-up by absorbing Goku’s attacks.

I'm pretty sure that was Majin Buu after training in the form we call "Fit Buu", which would most likely be much stronger than the Buu we saw at the Zen exhibition tournament.

Goku>= vegeta >caulifla >cabba>niggrishi>>>koitsukai=panchia=bollarator> gohan

It might be possible, but it just seems odd that Gohan would be that much weaker than Cabba, when he was able to defeat Botamo easily (who gave U6 arc Goku some trouble). Also, why is Niggrishi >>> Koitsukai when he doesn't have any feats?

Niggrishi is described to be the strongest of u3 by his kaioshin, but still kyabe bitchslapped him.
They said he's the strongest, so he has to be stronger than the 3 bots individually

[p-hyvo]

Not to mention Base Goku and Vegeta were still weaker than the good Majin Boo in the Tournament of Power.

Wrong lol
Goku in base demostrated to be stronger than bergamot, who is stronger than good buu

Base Goku lost to the good Majin Boo in his calm state, so he has no chance against the enraged Boo. Bergamo only surpass Majin Boo when he powers-up by absorbing Goku’s attacks.

Nope.
That wolves was all around good buu tier, and Goku played with bergamo and went ssj just to test how far he could absorb hits. The only wolf really weaker than good buu is basil, but not by a lot. Anyway, gohan was winning against lavender prior to bring poisoned , and lavender Is stronger than basil and could perfectly be >= good buu.
If I have to scale, I'd say

Good buu 220
Basil 160, post drug 320
Lavender 270
Gohan 350
Bergamo 360
Goku 500
That works perfectly.
If you want to debunk that, bring in done concrete proofs of don't talk at all

[p-hyvo]

Wrong lol
Goku in base demostrated to be stronger than bergamot, who is stronger than good buu

Base Goku lost to the good Majin Boo in his calm state, so he has no chance against the enraged Boo. Bergamo only surpass Majin Boo when he powers-up by absorbing Goku’s attacks.

I'm pretty sure that was Majin Buu after training in the form we call "Fit Buu", which would most likely be much stronger than the Buu we saw at the Zen exhibition tournament.

Goku>= vegeta >caulifla >cabba>niggrishi>>>koitsukai=panchia=bollarator> gohan

It might be possible, but it just seems odd that Gohan would be that much weaker than Cabba, when he was able to defeat Botamo easily (who gave U6 arc Goku some trouble). Also, why is Niggrishi >>> Koitsukai when he doesn't have any feats?

By the way, yes, definitely fit buu is stronger than good buu considering he gave base Goku an hard time

[Hugo Boss]

Wrong lol
Goku in base demostrated to be stronger than bergamot, who is stronger than good buu

Base Goku lost to the good Majin Boo in his calm state, so he has no chance against the enraged Boo. Bergamo only surpass Majin Boo when he powers-up by absorbing Goku’s attacks.

I'm pretty sure that was Majin Buu after training in the form we call "Fit Buu", which would most likely be much stronger than the Buu we saw at the Zen exhibition tournament.

”Fit” Boo was only said to be faster, not stronger than “Fat” Boo. Anyway, this version of Boo wasn’t even enraged, so he wasn’t fighting at the same level of when he fought Basil.

That wolves was all around good buu tier, and Goku played with bergamo and went ssj just to test how far he could absorb hits. The only wolf really weaker than good buu is basil, but not by a lot. Anyway, gohan was winning against lavender prior to bring poisoned , and lavender Is stronger than basil and could perfectly be >= good buu.
If I have to scale, I'd say

Good buu 220
Basil 160, post drug 320
Lavender 270
Gohan 350
Bergamo 360
Goku 500
That works perfectly.
If you want to debunk that, bring in done concrete proofs of don't talk at all

All the wolf brothers are weaklings without their cheat moves. That’s the point of their characters. They differ only in how stupidly unfair their moves are, there is no noticeable physical strength difference between them. Bergamo only has the most broken ability. Goku and Boo showed that they were even stronger than a wolf using cheat. Gohan didn’t, he was the weakest in the group. That’s because he was still weaker than when he fought Majin Boo. If you want proof, consider watching the anime in official broadcast services.

[ZombieVito]

What makes you think that he can beat SS2+ level people?

Because he can already beat Boo arc SS3 people in just his base form?

This Vegeta is exactly as strong as Cabba and look what happened:

That’s an old fallacy as well. Cabba was nowhere near as strong as Vegeta even when they fought in Champa Arc, let alone in this fight, when Vegeta was noted to be much stronger. Not to mention Base Goku and Vegeta were still weaker than the good Majin Boo in the Tournament of Power.

Vegeta said Cabba was on par with him and that was never contradicted. I already explained why SS Cabba was no match for SS Vegeta.

Good Boo got stronger by training for an hour and even then only beat Goku by strategy not power.

That wolves was all around good buu tier, and Goku played with bergamo and went ssj just to test how far he could absorb hits. The only wolf really weaker than good buu is basil, but not by a lot. Anyway, gohan was winning against lavender prior to bring poisoned , and lavender Is stronger than basil and could perfectly be >= good buu.

Basil and Lavender aren't even Good Boo tier.

Gohan prior to training with Piccolo in E88 was exactly as strong as his Boo arc self.

If Bergamo is stronger than Good Boo or not is up the air.

[Hugo Boss]

Vegeta said Cabba was on par with him and that was never contradicted. I already explained why SS Cabba was no match for SS Vegeta.

Good Boo got stronger by training for an hour and even then only beat Goku by strategy not power.

Vegeta’s assessment was contradicted by what happened when they were Super Saiyans. If SS Cabba is no match for SS Vegeta, then the same happens in Base. All of this makes sense, since Beerus noted Vegeta was trying to train Cabba, like he did himself with Goku in the Battle of Gods Arc, so it’s likely that Vegeta was lying about them being evenly matched.

As I said before, Goku doesn’t note “Fit” Boo got more powerful, he only claims the speed has increased and commends his power. If you have a good grasp of Japanese you can see the difference. Besides, it’s pretty safe to assume that Boo was holding back in that fight, since he wasn’t angry.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

When it comes to Cabba, something to bear in mind is that this is Cabba's first time as a Super Saiyan, meaning he hasn't mastered the form. As well, Vegeta's in a different position when Cabba's punch connected than when he was about to get hit; he looks like he put his head into Cabba's punch.

I've heard that it's a legitimate strategy to block a punch with your forehead if you angle it right, and after rewatching the scene, this makes sense to me. Vegeta blocked the hit with the upper part of his forehead with his experience as a mastered Super Saiyan.

[Grand Marshal 1]

When it comes to Cabba, something to bear in mind is that this is Cabba's first time as a Super Saiyan, meaning he hasn't mastered the form. As well, Vegeta's in a different position when Cabba's punch connected than when he was about to get hit; he looks like he put his head into Cabba's punch.

I've heard that it's a legitimate strategy to block a punch with your forehead if you angle it right, and after rewatching the scene, this makes sense to me. Vegeta blocked the hit with the upper part of his forehead with his experience as a mastered Super Saiyan.

I am inclined to agree that Cabba was using Grade 1 back then, same with Caulifla when she first attained the form. But, truly, I think that they have forgot how this words and instantly give to everyone Grade 4/SSJ to wrap it up.