Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Helios518]

Universe 4
Monna, Katopesla, Damon and Gamisaras were great and stronger than most fighters in the ToP.

Katopesla is from U3.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Here's a few issues with people rankings I have:

-Hit should be higher than people are giving him credit for. In episode 111 Hit implies that the strikes Jiren was throwing were comparable to what UI Goku took so he was facing Jiren at relative power. Further power he was able to harm Jiren at the time by punching a hole and had him struggling to move in a time cage until he starts showing more shocking power. This would show that Hit would be stronger than 110 UI Goku, whom by scaling would be able SSJ2 Kefla considering Vegeta in episode 122 seem to imply Jiren while having the strongest Ki he felt is weaker than when fight UI Goku from 110. Hit is not near SSG tier especially when he fought Blue Goku while having the power to cause significant damage

I agree with almost all of your post. But I don't think Hitto is stronger than Goku / Vegeta SSB (in power).

He says something like '' So those were the blows that Son Goku got from Jiren, ''He did not specify whether it was the blows that Goku Blue received or whether Goku IS received

Anyway, Hitto even with Time skip could not touch Jiren, and in a melee fight he did much worse than Goku or Vegeta SSB, showing that in strength he really is weaker. He only managed to stop Jiren with the cage of time, but that did not hurt Jiren, only paralyzed him.

- SSR Trunks shouldn't be comparable to the likes SSG tier or below SSJ Kefla. Trunks already should be significantly above SSG tier considering he showed the power to initially incapacitate Goku black in rose and take him on while battling future Zamasu. When fused Zamasu was beating on both Vegeta and Goku at full power SSB after destroying his barrier, the moment Trunks jumped in Gowasu and Shin both were amazed as well as shocked of his power which can be interpreted as SSR being above both SSB Saiyans at the time. Nothing suggest that SSG tier is now SSB tier during the ToP or anywhere close. There's a vague evidence of how much strong was SSB Goku in early ToP would be compared to SSR Trunks which could close to 10x due to SSB Goku fighting Hit though skill was involved so it wasn't Goku being only improved in speed and power. Regardless SSJ Kefla isn't on pair with SSB Goku from early ToP if he was on full power which was implied by Vados implying SSB Goku at full power would be troublesome and Champa being so confident since Goku was still fatigue. So there's no objective evidence for SSJ Kefla being above SSR Trunks, at best they're comparable.

I don't see SSJ Rage Trunks above Goku and Vegeta SSB.

When he faced Black and Zamasu for the first time, he was totally enraged and probably this gave him a power up on him.
The second time this did not happen and we saw that he only managed to face Black and Zamasu using strategy. And even a Galick Ho with almost all his power was not enough to defeat Black

-Final form Frieza is not base tier or at least now as a recton of Saiyan Beyond god being SSG in the F saga. At this point he should be comparable to the likes of SSG tier fighters. A lot of evidence support this such as, Frieza being able to fodderized Jimeze, who was bullying Base Gohan (who is equal to Base Goku) and who Goku decided to go SSJ against. There's other example such Frieza beimg able to take on and fight Dyspo whom was having the slight edge against SSG Goku or the fact he was confident enough to take on both SSJ2 Caulifa and Berserk controlled Kale at the same time while preparing the fire a death beam at Final form.

Freeza final form does not have the same level of Goku SSG.

Dyspo himself said he had not yet begun to show his speed, and when he did, he dominated Freeza, who need use the Golden form.
When Freeza kicked SSG Goku, Goku said the attack did not tickle.

- SSBE(or Beyond Blue) even initially is not necessarily on pair with SSB X20 Goku. The fact they fought side by side don't prove they're on pair if don't pay full detail attention to the fight in hand. I mean Caulifa fought side by side with Berserk Kale ro Zamasu fight side by side by Goku Black but neither are on pair or close in terms of power. In Vegeta and Goku case, we clearly see Vegeta being more heavily offensive such as firing more ki powered attacks which pushes the powered up Jiren more with even Goku replying on Vegeta's power than his own considering he's less offensive while trying to hold Jiren to give Vegeta more openings. I think it's better assume Vegeta even initial SSBE is above SSB x20 Goku, especially when statements at the time was Vegeta having boundless energy or breaking his shell by spectators which used to describe even UI from 110.

I believe that Vegeta SSB Evolution was initially at the same level as Goku SSB KK x20.

But, you said that Vegeta was being more offensive. Could you give examples? I just want to reinforce the arguments

[SayianBeyondGod]

I agree with almost all of your post. But I don't think Hitto is stronger than Goku / Vegeta SSB (in power).

He says something like '' So those were the blows that Son Goku got from Jiren, ''He did not specify whether it was the blows that Goku Blue received or whether Goku IS received

Anyway, Hitto even with Time skip could not touch Jiren, and in a melee fight he did much worse than Goku or Vegeta SSB, showing that in strength he really is weaker. He only managed to stop Jiren with the cage of time, but that did not hurt Jiren, only paralyzed him.

I think Hit has more power especially when he's capable of punching a hole in Jiren, I don't think Time hax alone is what makes him so powerful though I was putting that in account of his overall abilities too. Looking at the statement the word "are" was used which is a present tense word, assuming there's no mistranslation it seems that Hit is implying these were the more recent attacks hence why I believe he's talking about the same Jiren that fought UI Goku, After all he showed up to save Goku late in the battle which makes it a bit more likely. Also when you mean SSB Goku battle do you mean after the Zenkais if so I agree he did better than Hit. For Vegeta he was fighting Jiren more supressed than when fighting UI until he started to use more power later in the fight with the Final Flash and with Jiren stated to use enough power to ignite Vegeta.

[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

I don't see SSJ Rage Trunks above Goku and Vegeta SSB.

When he faced Black and Zamasu for the first time, he was totally enraged and probably this gave him a power up on him.
The second time this did not happen and we saw that he only managed to face Black and Zamasu using strategy. And even a Galick Ho with almost all his power was not enough to defeat Black

I don't think the former should be compared to a temporarily power up from rage such as Kefla or Vegeta, especially when Trunks was still trying to preserve ki and using it all on a single attack. Not to mention he got a better once he was able to control it. For the later even if he galick gun didn't kill Black it still initially incapacitate him which is still a feat of power and we have him needing to take on Zamasu at the same time. Even after witnessing SSB Goku and Vegeta going full power against fused Zamasu, even Gowasu and Shin were amazed by Trunks Rage power once he stepped in, which may imply Trunks being a bit stronger.

Freeza final form does not have the same level of Goku SSG.

Dyspo himself said he had not yet begun to show his speed, and when he did, he dominated Freeza, who need use the Golden form.
When Freeza kicked SSG Goku, Goku said the attack did not tickle.

It doesn't explain why he felt the need to take on beresk control Kale and SSJ2 Caulifa at the same time while about to fire a death beam in final form or being able to fodderize Jimeze. I don't think he's base tier at all in his Final form. Sure what you said may be a fair explanation though Freeza did still show some relevancy in the battle such as catching his punch afterwards with his tail. As for the last point, Frieza wasn't intentionally trying to hurt Goku when kicking him, we have Golden Frieza for example pushing fatigue base Goku with a ki blast to stop him from falling which shows he's not throwing full powered attacks

I believe that Vegeta SSB Evolution was initially at the same level as Goku SSB KK x20.

But, you said that Vegeta was being more offensive. Could you give examples? I just want to reinforce the arguments

I scraped up a best footage i could get from youtube, but from these two scenes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPMhpBnYYyM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh0DzIdlDtI

Which clearly see Vegeta relying more a powered ki blasts which pushed Jiren to the point he needed to either counter with a powered ki punch or glare. The second time we have Goku having to hold Jiren when needing to rely on Vegeta powered ki blast attacks. The only attakcs that pushed a less powered Jiren prior was the full powered bloodlusted Final Flash or the U7 spirit bomb.

[TheSaiyanGod]

I agree with almost all of your post. But I don't think Hitto is stronger than Goku / Vegeta SSB (in power).

He says something like '' So those were the blows that Son Goku got from Jiren, ''He did not specify whether it was the blows that Goku Blue received or whether Goku IS received

Anyway, Hitto even with Time skip could not touch Jiren, and in a melee fight he did much worse than Goku or Vegeta SSB, showing that in strength he really is weaker. He only managed to stop Jiren with the cage of time, but that did not hurt Jiren, only paralyzed him.

I think Hit has more power especially when he's capable of punching a hole in Jiren, I don't think Time hax alone is what makes him so powerful though I was putting that in account of his overall abilities too. Looking at the statement the word "are" was used which is a present tense word, assuming there's no mistranslation it seems that Hit is implying these were the more recent attacks hence why I believe he's talking about the same Jiren that fought UI Goku, After all he showed up to save Goku late in the battle which makes it a bit more likely. Also when you mean SSB Goku battle do you mean after the Zenkais if so I agree he did better than Hit. For Vegeta he was fighting Jiren more supressed than when fighting UI until he started to use more power later in the fight with the Final Flash and with Jiren stated to use enough power to ignite Vegeta.

[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

Well, that hole that Hitto made in Goku and Jiren seems to be a feature of his technique. But in Jiren's case, we saw that it had no effect.
Including, Jiren says that it was a useless attack (until being paralyzed).
And I would say that even Goku SSB on EP 109 had a better performance than Hitto facing Jiren.
Hitto could not even change punches with Jiren, so he's inferior to SSB.

I don't see SSJ Rage Trunks above Goku and Vegeta SSB.

When he faced Black and Zamasu for the first time, he was totally enraged and probably this gave him a power up on him.
The second time this did not happen and we saw that he only managed to face Black and Zamasu using strategy. And even a Galick Ho with almost all his power was not enough to defeat Black

I don't think the former should be compared to a temporarily power up from rage such as Kefla or Vegeta, especially when Trunks was still trying to preserve ki and using it all on a single attack. Not to mention he got a better once he was able to control it. For the later even if he galick gun didn't kill Black it still initially incapacitate him which is still a feat of power and we have him needing to take on Zamasu at the same time. Even after witnessing SSB Goku and Vegeta going full power against fused Zamasu, even Gowasu and Shin were amazed by Trunks Rage power once he stepped in, which may imply Trunks being a bit stronger.

SSJ Rage was not temporary, but the power that Trunks got at that moment may be. He was able to face Black and Zamasu at the same time, while in the second fight he had to separate the two and face Black alone, in addition to using a distraction to hit him. Not even a Galick Ho was able to hurt him.

Against Merged Zamasu, Trunks was also enraged, Gowasu and Shin still say '' so this is the power of rage? ''

Maybe Trunks was above SSB Goku and Vegeta on EP 61 after transforming, but then he was outdone

Freeza final form does not have the same level of Goku SSG.

Dyspo himself said he had not yet begun to show his speed, and when he did, he dominated Freeza, who need use the Golden form.
When Freeza kicked SSG Goku, Goku said the attack did not tickle.

It doesn't explain why he felt the need to take on beresk control Kale and SSJ2 Caulifa at the same time while about to fire a death beam in final form or being able to fodderize Jimeze. I don't think he's base tier at all in his Final form. Sure what you said may be a fair explanation though Freeza did still show some relevancy in the battle such as catching his punch afterwards with his tail. As for the last point, Frieza wasn't intentionally trying to hurt Goku when kicking him, we have Golden Frieza for example pushing fatigue base Goku with a ki blast to stop him from falling which shows he's not throwing full powered attacks

Yes, Freeza tried to attack Caulifla and Kale in his final form, but I believe he would not want to simply use his Golden form and expend energy on them at that moment, so I don't think that's a proof that he's SSG level.
He also felt the need to use his Golden form to face Dyspo who was not using his full speed

I believe that Vegeta SSB Evolution was initially at the same level as Goku SSB KK x20.

But, you said that Vegeta was being more offensive. Could you give examples? I just want to reinforce the arguments

I scraped up a best footage i could get from youtube, but from these two scenes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPMhpBnYYyM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh0DzIdlDtI

Which clearly see Vegeta relying more a powered ki blasts which pushed Jiren to the point he needed to either counter with a powered ki punch or glare. The second time we have Goku having to hold Jiren when needing to rely on Vegeta powered ki blast attacks. The only attakcs that pushed a less powered Jiren prior was the full powered bloodlusted Final Flash or the U7 spirit bomb.

Vegeta really was being more offensive, but I do not know if that would be an argument to definitively prove that he was above the Goku SSB KK x20 (with his initial SSBE, before the power up against Toppo).

But something I thought is that on EP 127, even though he was tired of his fight against Toppo, we saw that Jiren focused a lot on SSBE Vegeta, even praised the strength of his punch, something he did not do with Goku.

[SayianBeyondGod]

[Well, that hole that Hitto made in Goku and Jiren seems to be a feature of his technique. But in Jiren's case, we saw that it had no effect.
Including, Jiren says that it was a useless attack (until being paralyzed).
And I would say that even Goku SSB on EP 109 had a better performance than Hitto facing Jiren.
Hitto could not even change punches with Jiren, so he's inferior to SSB.

Fair enough, though If we take his overall abilities than raw power into account then I believe he comparable to first use of UI omen.

SSJ Rage was not temporary, but the power that Trunks got at that moment may be. He was able to face Black and Zamasu at the same time, while in the second fight he had to separate the two and face Black alone, in addition to using a distraction to hit him. Not even a Galick Ho was able to hurt him.

Against Merged Zamasu, Trunks was also enraged, Gowasu and Shin still say '' so this is the power of rage? ''

Maybe Trunks was above SSB Goku and Vegeta on EP 61 after transforming, but then he was outdone

I'm pretty sure that power wasn't temporarily especially once he had his power under controlled, such as when his eyes stopped glowing and he pushed away the combine ki blast from Black and Zamasu. This could be interpreted as him also improving at that moment. Even if that Galick Gun didn't kill black it was able to incapacitate Black initially. For the latter isn't Trunks SS Rage form ignited by rage most of the time, so it's standard for him to be enraged when uses it.

Yes, Freeza tried to attack Caulifla and Kale in his final form, but I believe he would not want to simply use his Golden form and expend energy on them at that moment, so I don't think that's a proof that he's SSG level.
He also felt the need to use his Golden form to face Dyspo who was not using his full speed

I don't think it's stamina problems he would be concern about especially when he can maintain Golden much easier when perfecting it, he was willing to waste it on a bunch of fodder enemy assassins. Still even if stamina is a concern the they'll be no reason for him to have the confidence to attack both Caulifa and Kale at the time. Also do you mean "light speed mode" when referring to Dypso's full speed, in his base which is more comparable to SSG Frieza was still able to keep up and catch a punch with his tail after Dypso later when all out in base.

Vegeta really was being more offensive, but I do not know if that would be an argument to definitively prove that he was above the Goku SSB KK x20 (with his initial SSBE, before the power up against Toppo).

But something I thought is that on EP 127, even though he was tired of his fight against Toppo, we saw that Jiren focused a lot on SSBE Vegeta, even praised the strength of his punch, something he did not do with Goku.

It's more than just that, his attacks seem to push Jiren a lot more to defend himself with ki powered counters such as a powered ki punch or glare, so far it took the spirit bomb or full powered Final flash to push a weaker Jiren to defend himself. SSBKK Goku never pushed Jiren with any ki powered attacks with the expectation of a combine attack with Vegeta.

Yeah I agree, even fatguie Vegeta seem to have a slight better performance then SSBKK Goku and this was a from a more powered up Jiren btw. Though IDK what this means besides Vegeta not being full power agiasnt Jiren in 127 or being above SSBKK Goku even when fatguie which leads a very big power gap if at full power. Was inital Vegeta as strong as this fatguie, I can't safely answer this. The Final Explosion uses majority of the user's ki IIRC, so this may just be a fraction of his power still that impressed Jiren.

[Rally 07]

Well with the Tournament of Power over, I feel I can make my Universe 7 team power scale now. Due to Gokou and Vegeta receiving Zenkai Boosts from fighting and getting slapped around by Jiren then even pushing Jiren to use more power. Hell I actually believe Super Saiyan Blue Gokou w/ Kaioken and Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta pushed Jiren to use more power to the point where Belmod stated he's never seen Jiren use so much power in quite a while. And Not even the Ultra Instinct Omen from Super episode 110 pushed Jiren to that. This could very well mean both Gokou and Vegeta have surpassed the level of power of the first Ultra Instinct Omen. Then there's Artificial Human No.17 and Golden Freeza as well. I've seen people (and SethTheProgrammer) claim No.17 is likely massively more powerful than Golden Freeza or Ultimate Gohan due to him taking punches and attacks from Jiren that were meant for Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta in Super episodes 125 and 126. However I do disagree with this notion as there's really not much evidence or validity to support No.17 being stronger than Golden Freeza at least. Because I do believe he is stronger than Ultimate Gohan. But nevertheless No.17, Golden Freeza, and Ultimate Gohan are still relativistic towards each other in power as they all can take on these God tier fighters such as Super Saiyan Blue Gokou, Dyspo, Base form Toppo, and suppressed Jiren. Obviously not suppressed Jiren later in the Tournament of Power, I mean from earlier such as Super episodes 109 and 110, and 122 when Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta was fighting suppressed Jiren. Vegeta stated "You were faster and stronger when you fought Kakarrott. This could mean Jiren was suppressing himself to the level he was at when he fought against Super Saiyan Blue Gokou w/ Kaioken x 20 from Super episode 109. Or at least that's how I interpreted that statement.

I'd also like to scale Universe 6, and some of the other Universes' teams' as well. The confusing part for Universe 6 would be Kefura and Frost honestly.

[Bullza]

Do they actually still get Zenkai boosts though? That hasn't been a thing since the Namek saga and the manga even went out of its way to explain that they can't anymore.

[ekrolo2]

So, how is Kefla as strong as she is? Goku implied that SSGod trumped fusion IE, at the very least, SS Vegetto if not possibly even SS3 Vegetto. Unless Goku's SSGod is hundreds of times weaker, he should be able to whoop Kefla's ass easily.

Do they actually still get Zenkai boosts though? That hasn't been a thing since the Namek saga and the manga even went out of its way to explain that they can't anymore.

No they do not, the series always mentioned them when they happened. Goku and Vegeta almost die several times in the Black arc, get healed and they get no power up from doing so.

[Hugo Boss]

Do they actually still get Zenkai boosts though? That hasn't been a thing since the Namek saga and the manga even went out of its way to explain that they can't anymore.

It’s being said Saiyans get stronger the more they fight, which is a bit different from recovering bad injuries.

So, how is Kefla as strong as she is? Goku implied that SSGod trumped fusion IE, at the very least, SS Vegetto if not possibly even SS3 Vegetto. Unless Goku's SSGod is hundreds of times weaker, he should be able to whoop Kefla's ass easily.

I don’t remember such thing being mentioned, but it was said several times Goku didn’t recover his stamina when he fought the Saiyan girls.

[wolflonnie]

Hit is unhortodox because his raw punching / ki blast power is low, but his techniques are so good he's able to punch much above his weight class. Also he's very durable.

[Freezerbaby]

Well with the Tournament of Power over, I feel I can make my Universe 7 team power scale now. Due to Gokou and Vegeta receiving Zenkai Boosts from fighting and getting slapped around by Jiren then even pushing Jiren to use more power. Hell I actually believe Super Saiyan Blue Gokou w/ Kaioken and Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta pushed Jiren to use more power to the point where Belmod stated he's never seen Jiren use so much power in quite a while. And Not even the Ultra Instinct Omen from Super episode 110 pushed Jiren to that. This could very well mean both Gokou and Vegeta have surpassed the level of power of the first Ultra Instinct Omen. Then there's Artificial Human No.17 and Golden Freeza as well. I've seen people (and SethTheProgrammer) claim No.17 is likely massively more powerful than Golden Freeza or Ultimate Gohan due to him taking punches and attacks from Jiren that were meant for Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta in Super episodes 125 and 126. However I do disagree with this notion as there's really not much evidence or validity to support No.17 being stronger than Golden Freeza at least. Because I do believe he is stronger than Ultimate Gohan. But nevertheless No.17, Golden Freeza, and Ultimate Gohan are still relativistic towards each other in power as they all can take on these God tier fighters such as Super Saiyan Blue Gokou, Dyspo, Base form Toppo, and suppressed Jiren. Obviously not suppressed Jiren later in the Tournament of Power, I mean from earlier such as Super episodes 109 and 110, and 122 when Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta was fighting suppressed Jiren. Vegeta stated "You were faster and stronger when you fought Kakarrott. This could mean Jiren was suppressing himself to the level he was at when he fought against Super Saiyan Blue Gokou w/ Kaioken x 20 from Super episode 109. Or at least that's how I interpreted that statement.

I'd also like to scale Universe 6, and some of the other Universes' teams' as well. The confusing part for Universe 6 would be Kefura and Frost honestly.

Gohan stands nowhere nears golden freeza, this is the first time I see someone putting those two in the same league in terms of power, as for 17, the last episode implies that golden freeza is stronger. Freeza > 17 > Gohan.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

So, how is Kefla as strong as she is? Goku implied that SSGod trumped fusion IE, at the very least, SS Vegetto if not possibly even SS3 Vegetto. Unless Goku's SSGod is hundreds of times weaker, he should be able to whoop Kefla's ass easily.

That depends entirely on whether one thinks SSG is still the same massive proportional boost from below-Namek-Freeza base to above Vegito like in Battle of Gods.

Personally speaking, I don't think it is anymore.

Goku has gotten much stronger since then, hundreds of times stronger, and has learned to master the power of a god; dozens of times stronger at minimum if one really wants to lowball Goku. You'd be hard-pressed to say that SSG has increased the same way; the narrative seems to support SSG not being too different from its incarnation in the first story arc.

For example, if Goku had a base form right now as strong as some of the stronger versions of Majin Buu, and SSG's proportional boost was a few thousand times stronger than this kind of base power, it'd be easy to see how SSG could eclipse Vegito's power back then but be outclassed by current Potara Fusions, like Kefla.

[Hugo Boss]

I'd also like to scale Universe 6, and some of the other Universes' teams' as well. The confusing part for Universe 6 would be Kefura and Frost honestly.

I will give my input on the characters later, but for your next post, it’s easier to read, if you separate your analysis for each character.

[Rally 07]

Gohan stands nowhere nears golden freeza, this is the first time I see someone putting those two in the same league in terms of power, as for 17, the last episode implies that golden freeza is stronger. Freeza > 17 > Gohan.

Well I wouldn't say that necessarily. I still believe they are comparable towards each other in power. As they both show they are capable of combating God levels such as Super Saiyan Blue Gokou and fighters such as Base form Toppo or Dyspo. But I would say Golden Freeza is probably a bit stronger than Ultimate Gohan. And with the final Super episode, Golden Freeza was able to exchange blows with a less powerful Jiren briefly which wasn't unexpected as Jiren is not in a less powerful state from fighting Gokou; but it was still cool and impressive.

[Bullza]

I'm not sure how Android 17 compares to Ultimate Gohan but both of them have been shown on a few occasions to not be at the current Super Saiyan Blue level.

Whether they're Resurrection F saga Super Saiyan Blue level, Super Saiyan God level or less, I couldn't say.

[Rally 07]

I'm not sure how Android 17 compares to Ultimate Gohan but both of them have been shown on a few occasions to not be at the current Super Saiyan Blue level.

Golden Freeza, Ultimate Gohan, or Artificial Human No. 17 are obviously not comparable to Super Saiyan Blue Gokou or Vegeta when fighting Jiren in the later episodes. Cause y'know cough*, Zenkai Boosts.

[Koitsukai]

Do they actually still get Zenkai boosts though? That hasn't been a thing since the Namek saga and the manga even went out of its way to explain that they can't anymore.

When Ultimate Gohan was being stomped by Gotenksbuu, he was healed by Dende, and Buu said HE RECOVERED HIS HEALTH BUT DIDN'T GET ANY STRONGER. So, it would appear that zenkai reached it's peak at least with Gohan a long time ago. That was in the manga, can't remember if in the anime also.
And in Super's manga, when Vegeta is fighting SSJ Black, both are healed through Zamasu and a senzu, Black gets a zenkai, but Vegeta doesn't and one of the kaioshin say that Vegeta reached his limit zenkaiwise or something like that. Of couse in Super, manga and anime aren't the same story, but yeah it seems Akira wanted to retire the zenkai boosts since Z. In the TOP they were never actually healed, I believe they became better fighters due to learning better ways to face an opponent

[ToshioWrites]

HOw strong do you guys think manga version of Toppo is?

He beat Goku but they added the “he let his guard down” qualifier and the aura around Goku hands makes it hard to tell if he was using normal blue or completed blue. I have him behind Jiren , Goku, Vegeta and Freeza

[Marlowe89]

So, how is Kefla as strong as she is? Goku implied that SSGod trumped fusion IE, at the very least, SS Vegetto if not possibly even SS3 Vegetto. Unless Goku's SSGod is hundreds of times weaker, he should be able to whoop Kefla's ass easily.

The dialogue implies base Kefla was stronger because Goku was exhausted as Super Saiyan God, then implies the same thing again when Goku transforms into Super Saiyan Blue and Kefla powers up to Super Saiyan. Goku is able to hold his own afterwards and doesn't seem to think Kefla can win, but then she powers up again, forces him to use Kaioken and Whis states something about her ki rivalling the Genki Dama's.

The bigger question is why Kefla's Super Saiyan would provide such an enormous boost if her base self is supposedly weaker than Super Saiyan God at full power, and I think that's likely because it's powered by Kale's Legendary Super Saiyan state which proportionally provides a vastly larger boost than the standard Super Saiyan multipliers. Her Super Saiyan 2 form in particular should be so strong that I can't see it being outright stomped by Vegito Blue.

[Rally 07]

Whis states something about her ki rivalling the Genki Dama's

Well that statement of Whis' can be interpreted in different ways. Some argue it's a comparison of role/ability, and I honestly haven't got the slightest clue on what that means. I've read this on Comicvine with DottiestMoon's post and others whom made the same arguments. Even now I'm a little puzzled with the connection between Kefura and the Genkidama. Then many more believe the statement is a comparison in power between Kefura and the Genkidama. Which way do you interpret that statment? A comparison of power or role/ability?