Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Simere]

My theory on power levels is still that efficiency of training is determined by motivation and motivation is determined by how exposed to a high power level a character is + how wide the gap is between that power level and their own. Freeza got as powerful as he did in RoF because he had a specific target in mind to overcome. Vegeta became a Super Saiyan, a Super Saiyan 4, and a Super Saiyan God because he saw someone else do it first. I don't see why this wouldn't apply to every other character in the series.

Why didn't it apply in the Cell arc?

[Hugo Boss]

My theory on power levels is still that efficiency of training is determined by motivation and motivation is determined by how exposed to a high power level a character is + how wide the gap is between that power level and their own. Freeza got as powerful as he did in RoF because he had a specific target in mind to overcome. Vegeta became a Super Saiyan, a Super Saiyan 4, and a Super Saiyan God because he saw someone else do it first. I don't see why this wouldn't apply to every other character in the series.

Why didn't it apply in the Cell arc?

Perhaps because Cell didn't show his full power until he had no choice. I think most of the people think Vegeta, Trunks or even Piccolo surpassed the level Cell used when he became perfect.

[Bullza]

This episode with Goku training with Buu could be really interesting.

I'd say with Super Saiyan Goku having a greater advantage over Bergamo than Buu did with Basil that Goku was definitely stronger than Buu as a Super Saiyan.

Whether he's shown to be in Base or not if another matter. If he's not or if he has trouble at all then surely Gohan can't have achieved his Ultimate form yet.

If Gohan has achieved his Ultimate form then with Base Goku being on par with that then he should be far superior to Buu.

[Helios518]

My theory on power levels is still that efficiency of training is determined by motivation and motivation is determined by how exposed to a high power level a character is + how wide the gap is between that power level and their own. Freeza got as powerful as he did in RoF because he had a specific target in mind to overcome. Vegeta became a Super Saiyan, a Super Saiyan 4, and a Super Saiyan God because he saw someone else do it first. I don't see why this wouldn't apply to every other character in the series.

Freeza wanting to surpass a Namek Saga SSJ allowed him to become SSJB tier?

[Bullza]

Freeza wanting to surpass a Namek Saga SSJ allowed him to become SSJB tier?

Buu saga SSJ3 Goku more like. Frieza was told before he started training that Goku had grown stronger since they last fought and had even defeated Majin Buu.

[Helios518]

Freeza wanting to surpass a Namek Saga SSJ allowed him to become SSJB tier?

Buu saga SSJ3 Goku more like. Frieza was told before he started training that Goku had grown stronger since they last fought and had even defeated Majin Buu.

But would Freeza even know how strong Boo Saga SSJ3/Boo even is? For all Freeza could've known, they could've been just 2x stronger.

[dragonballgeek]

I think it would be to way too generous Krillin the strongest earthling have a battle power higher than supressed Final Form Freeza (Namek) considering he slacked off for years. If all earthlings team up against Freeza they would perish with his Third Form.

Depends on how he performs this week honestly
Besides I want to know is how strong buu could be from training?

Man are you still going on about justifying Krillin getting a potential major power boost out of thin air? How old are you? I have a hard time believing that someone who was watched dragon ball in the late 90s/early 2000s would be cool with that.

If Krillin had the potential to catch up to Frieza, he would've done it years ago when preparing for the androids/cell. He doesn't.

[ChiefWamsutta]

What if this super strong Base Goku wasn't Saiyan Beyond God, but something different?

Goku and Vegeta learned to control their ki through not letting it leak out. This helped them achieve SSBlue. What if the super strong Base form is a Ki-Condensed Base?

The crew can still feel it because it is not god ki, just condensed mortal ki. It would also explain how Vegeta could have a weak and a strong Base even though he only trained. It fixes the Hit vs. Base Goku and Monaka-Beerus vs. Base Goku fights, while keeping Goku's Base below Buu. This could allow for Cabba's Base to actually be very weak, and confirm Vegeta's disappointment in him. It keeps Trunks and Zamasu at strong regions, but nowhere near SSG level. Goku said that Frost never trained and it could be thought that Goku uses Base form against him and Ki-Condensed Base against Frieza RoF. This follows what Toriyama said about Goku and Vegeta focusing on training their Base and Super Saiyan forms.


Base < Super Saiyan 1 < Super Saiyan 2 < Super Saiyan 3 << Super Saiyan God = Ki-Condensed Base < Super Saiyan Blue

[pacz360]

I think it would be to way too generous Krillin the strongest earthling have a battle power higher than supressed Final Form Freeza (Namek) considering he slacked off for years. If all earthlings team up against Freeza they would perish with his Third Form.

Depends on how he performs this week honestly
Besides I want to know is how strong buu could be from training?

Man are you still going on about justifying Krillin getting a potential major power boost out of thin air? How old are you? I have a hard time believing that someone who was watched dragon ball in the late 90s/early 2000s would be cool with that.

If Krillin had the potential to catch up to Frieza, he would've done it years ago when preparing for the androids/cell. He doesn't.

Oh boo hoo hoo krillin possibly achieved a power up that can have him shit on the likes of namek saga Frieza.
And no it's not outta thin air given super introduced god ki and perfect ki control it's possible for him not to mention guys like Frieza and trunks getting strong at a rapid rate in super.
Given that he has been training and possibly achieve a power up from his mini arc I don't see the problem and once again depends on how he performs tonight.

[Marlowe89]

I'd say with Super Saiyan Goku having a greater advantage over Bergamo than Buu did with Basil that Goku was definitely stronger than Buu as a Super Saiyan.

While I'm with you on that (to the degree that that's also my interpretation for now), it's important to keep in mind that Bergamo's base strength compared to his brothers was something we all just kind of inferred as far as I'm aware. If Buu is in fact shown to compete on a level with Super Saiyan Goku, I don't think it would necessarily contradict prior material within this arc.

I don't personally predict that will happen at all, but I wouldn't be totally surprised if that's what ends up getting portrayed.

[Lord Beerus]

Krillin managed to catch Gohan in his base form off guard. Prior to that, Krillin couldn't do anything to him and seemed really on the ropes.

But then...

Goku went SSJB and had a beam struggle with Krillin... and Krillin was able to push back. Holy shit. Krillin is a God.

[MisteryOne]

Krillin managed to catch Gohan in his base form off guard. Prior to that, Krillin couldn't do anything to him and seemed really on the ropes.

But then...

Goku went SSJB and had a beam struggle with Krillin... and Krillin was able to push back. Holy shit. Krillin is a God.

What...So, Gohan> SSB Goku?

[ZombieVito]

Krillin managed to catch Gohan in his base form off guard. Prior to that, Krillin couldn't do anything to him and seemed really on the ropes.

But then...

Goku went SSJB and had a beam struggle with Krillin... and Krillin was able to push back. Holy shit. Krillin is a God.

It was obvious by 18 kicking the beam off that Goku wasn't serious.

I'm tempted to bump Kuririn to the millions now though and next week fight between Boo and Goku looks very interesting.

[Bullza]

Yeahhhh that was all complete bullshit.

Krillin hurt Gohan, hell he even beat him though he did say he was off guard. Are we really supposed to believe that that's supposed to be Ultimate Gohan? Even though Krillin said in this episode that he's weaker than #18?

Then not only does he give Base Goku a run for his money....for some bizarre reason he went Super Saiyan...then he went Super Saiyan Blue...then there was a Kamehameha clash to which Krillin was actually able to push it back slightly.

We're never going to make sense of this shows power scale ever are we?

[Beyond]

Show runs on wrestling logic. Anyone can put up a good fight now.

[ZombieVito]

Yeahhhh that was all complete bullshit.

Krillin hurt Gohan, hell he even beat him though he did say he was off guard. Are we really supposed to believe that that's supposed to be Ultimate Gohan? Even though Krillin said in this episode that he's weaker than #18?

Then not only does he give Base Goku a run for his money....for some bizarre reason he went Super Saiyan...then he went Super Saiyan Blue...then there was a Kamehameha clash to which Krillin was actually able to push it back slightly.

We're never going to make sense of this shows power scale ever are we?

Gohan still doesn't have his Ultimate form.

[Lord Beerus]

I know that Goku was very likely sandbagging the hell out of that Kamehameha, but he was visibly shocked at Krillin pushing back his Kamehameha and cranked it up a notch. I mean, it was to the point where 18 had to step in. Krillin is still very much below SSJB tier but... holy fuck... he got insanely strong during those filler episodes with Goku on that weird island.

[Zamasu55]

No comment. Really.

[Bullza]

Gohan still doesn't have his Ultimate form.

Hopefully, hopefully he doesn't. I bring it up because of the previous debate people had on whether he was Ultimate Gohan during the Zen Exhibition or not.

If they don't show Gohan achieving this in the next few episodes before the Tournament then he must have had it at the Exhibition. I would really hope that's not the case though.

[Zamasu55]

This is just getting worse.