Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:57 pm

Bergamo wrote:
ZombieVito wrote:
Bergamo wrote: I'm not saying the anime is non-canon, but according to this poster, it's either just the manga or both. There is no "main product," they are both of equal status.
The anime is the main product, this has been said since forever.

Manga is not canon.
[spoiler]Image
Image
Image
Image
Image[/spoiler]
I'm sorry but Viz media doesn't decide what's canon.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:03 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
Bergamo wrote:
ZombieVito wrote: The anime is the main product, this has been said since forever.

Manga is not canon.
[spoiler]Image
Image
Image
Image
Image[/spoiler]
I'm sorry but Viz media doesn't decide what's canon.
This is official SDCC Promo. I guess the new Broly trailer is fake too.

In case it wasn't clear
Why entries in a series are considered non-canon: they conflict with the main continuity
No why entries in a series are considered non-canon: you personally dislike them
My explanations for the events of my favorite current manga.

DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:05 pm

Bergamo wrote:This is official SDCC Promo. I guess the new Broly trailer is fake too.

In case it wasn't clear
Why entries in a series are considered non-canon: they conflict with the main continuity
No why entries in a series are considered non-canon: you personally dislike them
Again. Viz media doesn't dictate what's canon.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:06 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
Bergamo wrote:This is official SDCC Promo. I guess the new Broly trailer is fake too.

In case it wasn't clear
Why entries in a series are considered non-canon: they conflict with the main continuity
No why entries in a series are considered non-canon: you personally dislike them
Again. Viz media doesn't dictate what's canon.
And you do?
My explanations for the events of my favorite current manga.

DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:14 pm

ZombieVito wrote: I'm sorry but Viz media doesn't decide what's canon.
That's from Dragon Ball Tour 2018, which is organized by Shueisha and Toei Animation, not Viz.

Funnily enough, it's also information that we already knew. The Super manga's television ads in Japan specifically label it as a sequel to the original manga.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by The gr » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:28 pm

BlueBasilisk wrote:I came into Super from /a/ and there it's the opposite. They refuse to hear a bad word against Toyotaro and Toei can't do anything right. Why does the fandom have to be like this? I don't care for Toyotaro's writing but I won't crap on people who do. You'd think having two adaptations would have something for everyone but instead it just leads to more tribalistic shit-flinging. After 3 years it makes me feel sour toward the franchise as a whole.

Getting back to the subject of the thread, I'm really curious about that black-haired, yellow-eyed form. I'm guessing it's similar to the purple/teal-haired Broly from movie 8 but it seems WAY more powerful comparatively. That Broly got his mouth bloodied by base Goku.
Yeah the Anime vs Manga is really annoying and comments are increasely becoming more toxic which is depressing to say at least because I don't mind comparison as long they aren't biased or have superficial reason on why X product is better than X.
    The only question is how strong is base Goku since there is no consistency on the saiyans base power.

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    Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

    Post by jeffbr92 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:25 am

    I believe Broly will be stronger than Jiren and Goku won't be able to defeat him without unlocking a new transformation.
    Power levels are not just big numbers:

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    Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

    Post by ZombieVito » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:27 am

    jeffbr92 wrote:I believe Broly will be stronger than Jiren and Goku won't be able to defeat him without unlocking a new transformation.
    He's going to use UI.

    Although Toriyama is crazy enough to introduce another form.

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    Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

    Post by PFM18 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:31 am

    jeffbr92 wrote:I believe Broly will be stronger than Jiren and Goku won't be able to defeat him without unlocking a new transformation.
    That's insane. I will bet my bank account Goku isn't getting a new form in this movie. UI was JUST introduced and they have only touched the surface on that transformation.

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    Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

    Post by dragon boss z » Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:40 am

    Bergamo wrote:
    ZombieVito wrote:
    Bergamo wrote:This is official SDCC Promo. I guess the new Broly trailer is fake too.

    In case it wasn't clear
    Why entries in a series are considered non-canon: they conflict with the main continuity
    No why entries in a series are considered non-canon: you personally dislike them
    Again. Viz media doesn't dictate what's canon.
    And you do?
    Just to throw in my 2 cents here, dragon ball doesn't have a "official canon". The only thing I would consider on that level is the original manga by Toriyama. At this point the Super story is pretty much canon, but the anime or manga doesn't really take precedence over the other, and I don't think they really take precedence over the movies either. They are all just official continuations of Toriyama's story, telling the same story but in different ways.

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    Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

    Post by Bullza » Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:59 am

    So yeah looks like even Broly in Base form can match Super Saiyan Blue Goku. As a Legendary Super Saiyan he'll undoubtedly be stronger. Stronger than Jiren? Well we'll see, there's​ gotta be some comment to compare them.

    I'd hoping Goku does use Ultra Instinct or something better to beat him. As long as it's anything but fusion then that's good enough for me.

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    Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

    Post by ZombieVito » Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:06 am

    Bullza wrote:So yeah looks like even Broly in Base form can match Super Saiyan Blue Goku. As a Legendary Super Saiyan he'll undoubtedly be stronger. Stronger than Jiren? Well we'll see, there's​ gotta be some comment to compare them.

    I'd hoping Goku does use Ultra Instinct or something better to beat him. As long as it's anything but fusion then that's good enough for me.
    He needs to use Kaioken. Something must make Brolly use Super Saiyan.

    Blue Kaioken is very popular to not use.

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    Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

    Post by Bullza » Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:14 am

    ZombieVito wrote:He needs to use Kaioken. Something must make Brolly use Super Saiyan.

    Blue Kaioken is very popular to not use.
    Yeah something will have to push him to go further. I didn't know about this but Super Saiyan God Vegeta is in this?

    [spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

    There's also two different versions of Super Saiyan for Broly.

    [spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

    I'm guessing what we saw in the trailer was the former because he has the armour so would Super Saiyan Broly be around 50 times as strong as Super Saiyan Blue Goku and then Legendary Super Saiyan Broly stronger than that?

    Doesn't look like he'll be getting a new form but that's ok.

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    Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

    Post by Bullza » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:20 am

    Double post, it looks like people have commented on it already but I hadn't seen the whole thing till now but going by the latest chapter of the manga...

    - Kale is vastly more powerful here than how she was portrayed in the anime. She one shot Aniraza? In the anime Aniraza matched Goku, Vegeta, Frieza, Gohan and Android 17 at the same time.

    - Kale lifted and threw Magetta with one arm and he's meant to weigh 1,000 tons...that shouldn't really be impressed but for some reason it is in the manga.

    - One shot the two Namekians...that might not mean too much because they weren't overly strong in the anime either before they powered up.

    - The Pride Troopers have an advantage over Kale.

    - Dyspo is too much for Super Saiyan Cabba. That makes sense.

    - Kefla, I assume it's just Super Saiyan is stronger than Kale yet somehow Base Gohan can deflect her attack.

    So now it seems like Gohan is going to fight Kefla? Even though Kale was stronger than Frieza, Toppo and Vegeta? Don't know how that works but we'll see.

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    Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

    Post by dbgtFO » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:33 am

    Yeah, but Kale's muscles aren't even as big as her anime incarnation right?
    Thus anime Kale must still be far stronger than manga Kale.

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    Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

    Post by Alruneia » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:50 am

    BlueBasilisk wrote:Good lord, this anime vs manga stuff is never going to stop. :roll:
    The fact that there's a "the anime is canon" vs "the manga is canon" argument going on in a strength thread is almost impressive. Some people are really obsessed with the whole canon thing, I guess. :roll: Sometimes people go so far that canon becomes more important than the quality of the content, and "It's not canon" is used as an argument to explain why said people dislike something... But this is getting off-topic.
    My two cents: Even if you're dead-set on the anime being the only canon, SS1 Black not being in the anime doesn't retroactively make it non-canon when Toriyama put it in the design. It only means that Black didn't use it.
    Bullza wrote:- Kefla, I assume it's just Super Saiyan is stronger than Kale yet somehow Base Gohan can deflect her attack.
    If Caulifla ever unlocked SS2 in the manga, I must have missed it, so Kefla should be some kind of mix between the berserk form and SS1. Are you sure Kefla is stronger than Kale, though? I haven't read anything about that (didn't see anything from Herms at least), so I figured manga Kefla was basically just Kale's power (maybe with that self-damaging aspect removed thanks to the mix with SS1 as mentioned before) with Caulifla's head so as to remove the drawback of being berserk.
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    Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

    Post by Bullza » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:54 am

    Alruneia wrote:Are you sure Kefla is stronger than Kale, though? I haven't read anything about that (didn't see anything from Herms at least), so I figured manga Kefla was basically just Kale's power (maybe with that self-damaging aspect removed thanks to the mix with SS1 as mentioned before) with Caulifla's head so as to remove the drawback of being berserk.
    I just figured she was considering that's how fusion has always worked before and Kefla trashed the Pride Troopers whereas they had Kale in a bit of bother.

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    Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

    Post by Alruneia » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:30 am

    Bullza wrote:
    Alruneia wrote:Are you sure Kefla is stronger than Kale, though? I haven't read anything about that (didn't see anything from Herms at least), so I figured manga Kefla was basically just Kale's power (maybe with that self-damaging aspect removed thanks to the mix with SS1 as mentioned before) with Caulifla's head so as to remove the drawback of being berserk.
    I just figured she was considering that's how fusion has always worked before and Kefla trashed the Pride Troopers whereas they had Kale in a bit of bother.
    Oh, I getcha. The Pride Troopers' performance against Kale was based on the whole "what's the point of having all the power in the world if you can't hit the guy" concept, though, according to Herms.
    I guess the best thing to do is wait for the official translated release tomorrow and find the information there.
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    Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

    Post by ZombieVito » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:14 am

    Bullza wrote: Yeah something will have to push him to go further. I didn't know about this but Super Saiyan God Vegeta is in this?

    [spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

    There's also two different versions of Super Saiyan for Broly.

    [spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

    I'm guessing what we saw in the trailer was the former because he has the armour so would Super Saiyan Broly be around 50 times as strong as Super Saiyan Blue Goku and then Legendary Super Saiyan Broly stronger than that?

    Doesn't look like he'll be getting a new form but that's ok.
    Sadly it appears he will be using SSG which worries me the movie will be set on the lame manga continuity. If this is the case then I hope the next animated series adapts the movie.

    Yeah, LSS should be stronger, maybe even stronger than Jiren. UI is definitely in the film to battle it.

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    Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

    Post by ekrolo2 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:17 am

    ZombieVito wrote:Sadly it appears he will be using SSG which worries me the movie will be set on the lame manga continuity. If this is the case then I hope the next animated series adapts the movie.

    Yeah, LSS should be stronger, maybe even stronger than Jiren. UI is definitely in the film to battle it.
    Since Toriyama wrote this its clearly his idea that Vegeta can use SSGod. I don't think its inclusion here means anything for either the manga or anime continuity since we already know Toyotaro is retelling the movie for the manga and the anime probably will too. It's why I don't think we'll see KK Blue, Evolution Blue or Omen in the film version.
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