Koitsukai wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:46 pm
p-hyvo wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:00 pm
Koitsukai wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:24 pm
There is nothing to support Cell Games base saiyans can take Namek Freeza, Goku's base not even with the greatest kaioken was close back then. It is all speculation due to not ever in the arc seeing a base saiyan fight. Or in the Buu arc for that matter, except fodder like Pui Pui or Yakon who were below their base.
Actually in the Cell arc most of the saiyan's gains are due to enhacements on the SS transformation, their base doesn't seem to increase enough to go from 3-5M to 120-150M, or even be the key for growth, the zenkais don't tilt the scales anymore. Goku fully "discards" his base form and not only trains but lives as SS. Strengthening their base seemed to take the back seat on this arc, so I highly doubt that base saiyans became as strong as a Namek SS just in base.
To me only BoG base Goku could take Freeza. Maybe post-Buu arc Goku too. Without kaioken.
Anyway, what is the general idea of Freeza's Golden form multiplier?
About base saiyans : you maybe ignore the fact that 50% ssj Goku was already stronger than G3 Trunks when he faced Cell, and that Heart deseased ssj Goku was stated to be stronger than post yardrat ssj Goku by tenshinhan. That 2 things alone
makes base Cell games saiyans have a Power level over the One of freezer. Literally, i can't make a Power level list in wich base Cell games saiyans are considerabile weaker than namecc freezer. It Is Just impossibile if you don't Stretch and force It to obtain that result
To me that is not enough at all to make such assumption. Goku being stronger than 3 years ago isn't indicative of anything revealing really, it is the most logical thing, he did spent that time training. I can't find that statement in the anime though, the manga definitely does not have it, so I can hardly consider it, specially when Tenshinhan only saw Yadrat SS Goku using his finger.
SS Goku showcasing half his power at Korin's and surpassing Broly Trunks(which was never stated, only Vegeta admitted that he was weaker) also doesn't mean that in his base he can kill Freeza. I really can't see the correlation, he can be stronger than Trunks (1.900 M)with half the power of 4.000M, and still with a base of 80M not be enough for Freeza's 120M.
Well, tenshinhan's statement is'nt a direct One, but he's like "woah Goku Is a Monster, Is stronger than ever" infact, tenshinhan did'nt have any suspect about Goku not doing well, the only One that got that was piccolo , Who trained with him for 3 years and knew his strenght.
Literally, from the manga :
Tenshinhan: incredible! Goku's power Is extraoridary! Goku's a super Saiyan...we'll never get ti his level... He's too superior
Piccolo : you really think so?
Tenshinhan : don't worry, Goku Is powerful... Super saiyans are really fantastic ! Against him, that 2 androide can't di anything!
Piccolo : Gohan, did you notice that too? It's all too Easy...this fight has Just befana, but Goku Is giving all he's got... But even so he can't end this
Tenshinhan : what? You are too pessimist. Don't you see? goku's winning
Piccolo :you don't know his true strenght... Goku's Power as a ssj should be ubumaginable
(End of the segment i needed, translation made by me from the Italian manga to english because i could'nt find english scans online)
Anyway, from this we can get that tenshinhan says that Goku vs 19>Goku post yardrat.
Piccolo does'nt really correct him on Goku being stronger than before but only on Goku being fullpower, Who tenshinhan believed
I feel like if i Say here where do i get numerically with dbgt/dbs Power levels, someone will get a stroke.
Better to not talk about dragon ball heroes ones, i swear
Also i don't wanna be rude, even if i know i can seem It sometimes. I'm Just too harsh in some occasions, that's It. I can't control that. Is not that i want to be and asshole or mean to you, i Simply don't know how to Say what i think i other ways .Just clarifying