Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:57 pm

Just the thought of some of the supervisors doing whole episodes if/when DBS comes back under proper production and hopefully new designs is a pretty mouth watering prospect!

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by DainIronfoot » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:15 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:Even though the character design styles of Yamamuro on his prime/Nakatsuru/Takahashi will always my absolute favourite for this franchise, I just love how Shintani's desgin feels like an update version of Minoru Maeda's style:

Image

As for Yamamuro, I have no idea what this means for him but I also think it's time to move on and have new blood start taking over his franchise.

This Shintani's design is already getting praise from some animators. I wonder if Yoshimichi Kameda will talk about it, since he criticized Yamamuro's character designs for BOG Movie and asked for Maeda's designs to be back.

Megumi Ishitani will direct/storyboard for the first time a DB episode and it's the last one of the show, which makes this an intriguing decision. To have such responsibility for her first episode, they must really believe in her.

And of course there's also the God Yuya Takahashi, who's making the entire fanbase jizz since episode 114 and is the fan favorite to be the new face of the franchise.
So talented that even other DBS supervisors were already taking inspiration from him. A young freelancer animator that debuted as supervisor after the middle of the last arc of the show...

I don't hate Yamamuro and I'm thankful he spent 20+ years of his life serving this franchise, but there's an end for everything. If we get a new show he could still be a supervisor, storyboard artist or key animator if he wants, but have an important position like being the character designer, no.

I'm told Yamamuro stepped down on his own accord however this is -->not confirmed<--. I too feel that bringing in fresh new animators is a good thing. If Yamamuro is stepping down on his own, that's comforts me more. He has done so much for the series, but if he himself realizes it's his time to let go and allow younger animators to take the reign, more respect to him. I think he's done more than enough for DB and if the show returns on TV and he does not come back at all, I wish him well and hope he has a well deserved rest without having to worry about doing promo art, endings, designs, etc. 20+years of service, not easy to do, especially with this fandom and how we act lol.

If he does return, in a role as KA or Supervisor, I think that'd be totally fine. I like his style at times, and other times no. However, there is no question that his corrections or KA can be beneficial to an episode that needs it.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by Hit!! » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:52 pm

cuartas wrote:
superfan2024 wrote:FIRST VISUAL AND STAFF FOR THE NEW MOVIE HAVE BEEN REVEALED!!!!!!!!

Image
That face screams one piece to me, I want to puke :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick:

I hope those aren't the designs but the typical random art that pops out before anything, I want Takahashi designs please
Agreed, the face looks too much like one piece and most casual fans would not like this art, because it looks more cartoony, less manly, less mature and less serious.. Takahashi designs are what DB should look like these days..

But what do i know, I'm not an animation connoisseur, I'm just a casual fan and i fell in love with DBZ first before DB, which is why I'm more fond of the Cell Arc style than the classic DB style.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by Hit!! » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:58 pm

Although i do understand how this would allow for better animation, and with a less strict supervising, i'm curious to see every animators imput and take on this style.

I just wish Takahashi was the designer.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by GTx10 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:08 am

I do like the picture, (love that the Power Pole is making a comeback. Well Maybe, guessing really) but the whole "Yamamuro being out" hype is pretty freaking cruel. People like this change "for change's sake" not because it actually impacts Dragon Ball's quality. (At least that is how I've interpreted it) Yamamuro has given us quality work for many years, will Dragon Ball really, truly benefit from new "new blood?" Don't misunderstand, I will fan-hype over this movie all day, every day, but while I like the art I'm really for this new lore that we will get.
Although I wouldn't mind seeing Ultra Instinct Son Goku in this style... Something make this so!
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:00 am

GTx10 wrote:I do like the picture, (love that the Power Pole is making a comeback. Well Maybe, guessing really) but the whole "Yamamuro being out" hype is pretty freaking cruel. People like this change "for change's sake" not because it actually impacts Dragon Ball's quality. (At least that is how I've interpreted it) Yamamuro has given us quality work for many years, will Dragon Ball really, truly benefit from new "new blood?" Don't misunderstand, I will fan-hype over this movie all day, every day, but while I like the art I'm really for this new lore that we will get.
Although I wouldn't mind seeing Ultra Instinct Son Goku in this style... Something make this so!
No, we like this change because it removes a bad animator, designer and director from his position of power which he has ceaselessly used to enforce his poor sense of taste and skill upon others.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by DainIronfoot » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:18 am

JulieYBM wrote:
GTx10 wrote:I do like the picture, (love that the Power Pole is making a comeback. Well Maybe, guessing really) but the whole "Yamamuro being out" hype is pretty freaking cruel. People like this change "for change's sake" not because it actually impacts Dragon Ball's quality. (At least that is how I've interpreted it) Yamamuro has given us quality work for many years, will Dragon Ball really, truly benefit from new "new blood?" Don't misunderstand, I will fan-hype over this movie all day, every day, but while I like the art I'm really for this new lore that we will get.
Although I wouldn't mind seeing Ultra Instinct Son Goku in this style... Something make this so!
No, we like this change because it removes a bad animator, designer and directorfrom his position of power which he has ceaselessly used to enforce his poor sense of taste and skill upon others.

Your opinion, and your reasoning is the minority in this. People should be happy we are getting a new style and for the movie itself. Those who are simply celebrating for the reason of showing disrespect to Yamamuro is unnecessary and insulting.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:38 am

DainIronfoot wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:
GTx10 wrote:I do like the picture, (love that the Power Pole is making a comeback. Well Maybe, guessing really) but the whole "Yamamuro being out" hype is pretty freaking cruel. People like this change "for change's sake" not because it actually impacts Dragon Ball's quality. (At least that is how I've interpreted it) Yamamuro has given us quality work for many years, will Dragon Ball really, truly benefit from new "new blood?" Don't misunderstand, I will fan-hype over this movie all day, every day, but while I like the art I'm really for this new lore that we will get.
Although I wouldn't mind seeing Ultra Instinct Son Goku in this style... Something make this so!
No, we like this change because it removes a bad animator, designer and directorfrom his position of power which he has ceaselessly used to enforce his poor sense of taste and skill upon others.

Your opinion, and your reasoning is the minority in this. People should be happy we are getting a new style and for the movie itself. Those who are simply celebrating for the reason of showing disrespect to Yamamuro is unnecessary and insulting.
Yamamuro swam across the Pacific ocean under his own power and killed my kittens with a plastic spatula he bought on Venus from a pink-haired poodle that married a seashell.

Now, I realize I'm an asshole for that exaggerated depiction of just how hard I'm rolling my eyes over your really projected stance on the subject, but has it ever just occurred to you that when somebody says "Yamamuro's been a real drag on this franchise" they--in fact--do not mean they hate his guts on a personal level? That maybe it's been entirely irresponsible of Yamamuro to continue to do as he pleases despite clearly being outshone at everything he attempts to do by those younger than him and that perhaps he should step aside if he cannot rise to the occasion?

I'm sorry if it's just not common sense that any negative comments directed towards Yamamuro are in fact only of a professional nature. I would think it is considering every comment made with regards to him is always based upon his work. Maybe you should, too?

As for my opinion (?) being in the minority: I want a full ten page report showing your data and how you collected it before I believe that. Additionally, I don't really give a shit if it is. I'm very much inclined to believe that the vast majority of people simply don't have any poops to give regarding Yamamuro's work...but is that supposed to make me think I'm wrong? You're going to need to put a little more elbow grease into that argument if you ever want to convince me that Yamamuro's ugly sense of shading, line work, timing and flat-as-all-get-out storyboarding and use of color is--in fact--wrong.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by DainIronfoot » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:20 am

JulieYBM wrote:
DainIronfoot wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:
No, we like this change because it removes a bad animator, designer and directorfrom his position of power which he has ceaselessly used to enforce his poor sense of taste and skill upon others.

Your opinion, and your reasoning is the minority in this. People should be happy we are getting a new style and for the movie itself. Those who are simply celebrating for the reason of showing disrespect to Yamamuro is unnecessary and insulting.
Yamamuro swam across the Pacific ocean under his own power and killed my kittens with a plastic spatula he bought on Venus from a pink-haired poodle that married a seashell.

Now, I realize I'm an asshole for that exaggerated depiction of just how hard I'm rolling my eyes over your really projected stance on the subject, but has it ever just occurred to you that when somebody says "Yamamuro's been a real drag on this franchise" they--in fact--do not mean they hate his guts on a personal level? That maybe it's been entirely irresponsible of Yamamuro to continue to do as he pleases despite clearly being outshone at everything he attempts to do by those younger than him and that perhaps he should step aside if he cannot rise to the occasion?

I'm sorry if it's just not common sense that any negative comments directed towards Yamamuro are in fact only of a professional nature. I would think it is considering every comment made with regards to him is always based upon his work. Maybe you should, too?

As for my opinion (?) being in the minority: I want a full ten page report showing your data and how you collected it before I believe that. Additionally, I don't really give a shit if it is. I'm very much inclined to believe that the vast majority of people simply don't have any poops to give regarding Yamamuro's work...but is that supposed to make me think I'm wrong? You're going to need to put a little more elbow grease into that argument if you ever want to convince me that Yamamuro's ugly sense of shading, line work, timing and flat-as-all-get-out storyboarding and use of color is--in fact--wrong.
You seem like you haven't read what I've been saying. I'm not directing my thoughts at those with justifiable reasons for disliking Yamamuro's art. However, MINDLESS comments of pure bashing like how you've done is UNNECESSARY and disrespectful. I don't care what your opinion is of him. Show respect and if you can't don't comment. It isn't that hard to understand. As for your nonsensical report, I just lol. Its simple fact, if you showed a Yamamuro image to most fans, they wouldn't mind it. The ones that don't like it and have their APPROPRIATE reasons to are fine. However, there is a very specific group that don't like it simply because they don't like him. As I said, you're coming off as the latter group. I respect others opinions and say time and time again that you don't have to like his art or style, just show some maturity when discussing it. If you can't do that, which seems to be the case, then I'm finished wasting my time with it. The one thing I will never tolerate is mindless bashing without good reason. I suggest you re read some of my prior posts, especially the one several pages back when people started to mock him on Shida's Twitter. That will give you a clue on who I'm talking about. Its not the people with valid criticisms, it's the people who say things that are personal or come off as plain disrespectful...and no it's easy to distuingish who's talking about his work and who's just being a "jerk" for shits and giggles. Anyways, like I said, read my post if you're still confused.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by Rabdom User » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:49 am

I think i saw him say he would be in the movie but please link where he said he was aiming for 4 minutes
Shida said,that he wants to animate a long scene
https://mobile.twitter.com/naoV47/statu ... 3596591104

Here is the conformation about he is working together with the movie's staff
https://mobile.twitter.com/naov47/statu ... 4370487296

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:07 am

DainIronfoot wrote:However, MINDLESS comments of pure bashing like how you've done is UNNECESSARY and disrespectful.
I've placed plenty of thought to avoid calling Yamamuro a a filthy cunt full of week old semen just because he sucks at his job. Instead I've just called him out for his flat sense of space, his lousy lines (nearly always the same thickness and ugly muscle formation), his poor sense of timing in his animation (his drawings merely play out without any sense of purpose behind them) and his complete lack of attention to coloring (Fukkatsu no F had no sense of mood dictated by its coloring. The colors always seemed to stay the same). Having bitched and moaned about these things on many an occasion I would think that my position was clear on the subject. Apparently it was not.
DainIronfoot wrote: I don't care what your opinion is of him. Show respect and if you can't don't comment. It isn't that hard to understand.
You don't care about my opinion, yet you've made three posts now projecting yourself onto every single perceived personal attack on the guy? You clearly care or else you wouldn't be posting. I care because a guy who has made a series I love incredibly painful to look at for twenty years will now no longer be involved in making said series painful to look at.
DainIronfoot wrote:As for your nonsensical report, I just lol. Its simple fact, if you showed a Yamamuro image to most fans, they wouldn't mind it.
I cannot comprehend how you can say I'm "in the minority" and I respond "yeah, the majority doesn't care" and then you think the appropriate response is "most fans wouldn't mind" as if you're made some sort of point. Or how something that one who wrote in the previous post of how little he cared for the opinions of the aforementioned masses would suddenly be crushed by in a debate.

The opinions of the masses mean little in the world of artistic discourse. The lowest common denominator will always show little interest or critical thought towards a work of art, let alone have the experience to form an opinion beyond what is immediately presented to them. If I am to pay heed to the opinions of those whom I do not know why should I bow before the untrained eyes of the masses? I'd much rather argue in favor of what Yamamuro's own ilk have said of him: that he's a big fish in a small pond who has clung to a single franchise for too long or that he lies to his staff and then completely redraws their work.
DainIronfoot wrote:The ones that don't like it and have their APPROPRIATE reasons to are fine. However, there is a very specific group that don't like it simply because they don't like him. As I said, you're coming off as the latter group. I respect others opinions and say time and time again that you don't have to like his art or style, just show some maturity when discussing it. If you can't do that, which seems to be the case, then I'm finished wasting my time with it. The one thing I will never tolerate is mindless bashing without good reason. I suggest you re read some of my prior posts, especially the one several pages back when people started to mock him on Shida's Twitter. That will give you a clue on who I'm talking about. Its not the people with valid criticisms, it's the people who say things that are personal or come off as plain disrespectful...and no it's easy to distuingish who's talking about his work and who's just being a "jerk" for shits and giggles. Anyways, like I said, read my post if you're still confused.
I'm not going to go back because I know I've placed careful thought into my posts to avoid being out of line, most notably my initial reaction to this news where I very specifically chose to avoid placing references to Yamamuro as a beast who has been 'slain', but rather is now simply 'gone'. Because a 'beast' he has been for this franchise, an unnecessary lead weight for a good twenty years.

My job is not to hold those in positions of power as some sort of god, most especially if I am not enthralled by their performance. My role as a fan entering public discourse is to hold those in power accountable. Tribalism bullshit has no place anywhere.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by VegettoEX » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:40 am

JulieYBM is incredibly out-of-line in much of the tone and content of his responses, but he's not wrong on his underlying point: plenty of people have — over an extended period of time — clearly, plainly, and in excruciating detail explained the issues they have with Tadayoshi Yamamuro's work. I understand it can be frustrating entering a conversation and a community sorta in medias res here, and I do think it would be appropriate for them to at least provide a little more commentary, if not links to prior analysis, but... Jacob is absolutely right in that not everything is a personal attack. Hopefully the surrounding context makes it clear, and by all means please report posts by members that personally attack other members.

But critical analysis of art from paid professionals is not a personal attack on them, and it is in turn not a personal attack on you.

Furthermore, no-one is in any position to effectively shut-down a conversation and dismiss a viewpoint because they have randomly decided someone is in the "minority" of an opinion base. We welcome all opinions, and neither us as administrators nor y'all as other community members get to be the exclusive gatekeepers on critical analysis of artwork.

This part of the conversation is over, please and thank you.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by Bullza » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:39 pm

Yamamuro was behind Resurrection F which remains the best Dragon Ball movie they've made so far. I wouldn't get your hopes up too much that he isn't involved.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by kn83 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:29 pm

Hit!! wrote:
cuartas wrote:
superfan2024 wrote:FIRST VISUAL AND STAFF FOR THE NEW MOVIE HAVE BEEN REVEALED!!!!!!!!

Image
That face screams one piece to me, I want to puke :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick:

I hope those aren't the designs but the typical random art that pops out before anything, I want Takahashi designs please
Agreed, the face looks too much like one piece and most casual fans would not like this art, because it looks more cartoony, less manly, less mature and less serious.. Takahashi designs are what DB should look like these days..

But what do i know, I'm not an animation connoisseur, I'm just a casual fan and i fell in love with DBZ first before DB, which is why I'm more fond of the Cell Arc style than the classic DB style.
Same here, Yuya Takahashi would be perfect for the movie.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by 8bitdee » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:32 pm

Bullza wrote:Yamamuro was behind Resurrection F which remains the best Dragon Ball movie they've made so far.
I'm no one to say that opinions are wrong, but this is one where A LOT of people would disagree with you, and a prime example of why people are glad he's not in charge this time around.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by kn83 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:40 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
DainIronfoot wrote:However, MINDLESS comments of pure bashing like how you've done is UNNECESSARY and disrespectful.
I've placed plenty of thought to avoid calling Yamamuro a a filthy cunt full of week old semen just because he sucks at his job. Instead I've just called him out for his flat sense of space, his lousy lines (nearly always the same thickness and ugly muscle formation), his poor sense of timing in his animation (his drawings merely play out without any sense of purpose behind them) and his complete lack of attention to coloring (Fukkatsu no F had no sense of mood dictated by its coloring. The colors always seemed to stay the same). Having bitched and moaned about these things on many an occasion I would think that my position was clear on the subject. Apparently it was not.
DainIronfoot wrote: I don't care what your opinion is of him. Show respect and if you can't don't comment. It isn't that hard to understand.
You don't care about my opinion, yet you've made three posts now projecting yourself onto every single perceived personal attack on the guy? You clearly care or else you wouldn't be posting. I care because a guy who has made a series I love incredibly painful to look at for twenty years will now no longer be involved in making said series painful to look at.
DainIronfoot wrote:As for your nonsensical report, I just lol. Its simple fact, if you showed a Yamamuro image to most fans, they wouldn't mind it.
I cannot comprehend how you can say I'm "in the minority" and I respond "yeah, the majority doesn't care" and then you think the appropriate response is "most fans wouldn't mind" as if you're made some sort of point. Or how something that one who wrote in the previous post of how little he cared for the opinions of the aforementioned masses would suddenly be crushed by in a debate.

The opinions of the masses mean little in the world of artistic discourse. The lowest common denominator will always show little interest or critical thought towards a work of art, let alone have the experience to form an opinion beyond what is immediately presented to them. If I am to pay heed to the opinions of those whom I do not know why should I bow before the untrained eyes of the masses? I'd much rather argue in favor of what Yamamuro's own ilk have said of him: that he's a big fish in a small pond who has clung to a single franchise for too long or that he lies to his staff and then completely redraws their work.
DainIronfoot wrote:The ones that don't like it and have their APPROPRIATE reasons to are fine. However, there is a very specific group that don't like it simply because they don't like him. As I said, you're coming off as the latter group. I respect others opinions and say time and time again that you don't have to like his art or style, just show some maturity when discussing it. If you can't do that, which seems to be the case, then I'm finished wasting my time with it. The one thing I will never tolerate is mindless bashing without good reason. I suggest you re read some of my prior posts, especially the one several pages back when people started to mock him on Shida's Twitter. That will give you a clue on who I'm talking about. Its not the people with valid criticisms, it's the people who say things that are personal or come off as plain disrespectful...and no it's easy to distuingish who's talking about his work and who's just being a "jerk" for shits and giggles. Anyways, like I said, read my post if you're still confused.
I'm not going to go back because I know I've placed careful thought into my posts to avoid being out of line, most notably my initial reaction to this news where I very specifically chose to avoid placing references to Yamamuro as a beast who has been 'slain', but rather is now simply 'gone'. Because a 'beast' he has been for this franchise, an unnecessary lead weight for a good twenty years.

My job is not to hold those in positions of power as some sort of god, most especially if I am not enthralled by their performance. My role as a fan entering public discourse is to hold those in power accountable. Tribalism bullshit has no place anywhere.
So you don't even like Yamamuro's work on the franchise in 93-95? (which was easily the best looking in the franchise, next to Takahashi's work). Obviously Yamamuro's current stuff sucks.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by Bullza » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:47 pm

8bitdee wrote:I'm no one to say that opinions are wrong, but this is one where A LOT of people would disagree with you, and a prime example of why people are glad he's not in charge this time around.
It was the most successful financially of every movie they've ever made. The only one that really even compares is Battle of Gods but that was let down by being too light in places and had a whole 10 minutes of screen time wasted on a useless Pilaf subplot.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by 8bitdee » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:53 pm

Bullza wrote:
8bitdee wrote:I'm no one to say that opinions are wrong, but this is one where A LOT of people would disagree with you, and a prime example of why people are glad he's not in charge this time around.
It was the most successful financially of every movie they've ever made.
The Twilight film series was also a financial success, with over a billion dollars grossed. That doesn't make those movies good, let alone the best.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by MrTennek » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:00 pm

Bullza wrote:
8bitdee wrote:I'm no one to say that opinions are wrong, but this is one where A LOT of people would disagree with you, and a prime example of why people are glad he's not in charge this time around.
It was the most successful financially of every movie they've ever made. The only one that really even compares is Battle of Gods but that was let down by being too light in places and had a whole 10 minutes of screen time wasted on a useless Pilaf subplot.
Yes, it was financially successful as much as it was painfully bland from both an artistic and directorial standpoint.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by A Man named RJ » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:27 pm

I'd love to see Dragon Ball tackled by younger animators. I think thats the main blessing of the webgen. Standouts being so young breaking the tiers based on experience.
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