Reason why Zamasu may or not be be Black

[Luke Groundwalker]

Doubtful, considering Goku Black was unaware of how his Time Ring worked. Following Future Trunks to the alternate present era was alien to him. Otherwise, he should know he can only progress forward and back in time, rendering alternate timeline crossing impossible outside of that special circumstance he's participated in once.

To be fair, Beerus and Whis seemed to be unaware that Time Rings could do that as well, since they directly stated they can only be used to travel forward in time. It was never stated or implied Goku Black didn't know what a Time Ring actually was.

I thought Beerus said that, paraphrased here, "Even Gods are only allowed to travel forward in time except under special circumstances" or something like that. I may be 100% wrong here but I thought something to that effect was said.

I don't remember him actually saying the Time Ring can only go forward. You'd be stuck in the future every time you used it if that were the case right?

WEll duh. That's what I largely meant. I meant that you aren't supposed to be able to use it to travel back in time. I'm saying Black's confusion with the Time Ring was due to it's abnormal reaction to Trunks' time travel, rather than being confused on what he was wearing like the poster I was responding to suggested. It was never suggested Black didn't know what a Time Ring was.

[Chuquita]

I read a comic that theorized that Gokû Black is a Gokû that Zamasu used the time ring to travel and kidnapped from Grandpa Gohan at a young age and raised him himself.

I don't know who the author was though.

[GodKaio-Ken]

To be fair, Beerus and Whis seemed to be unaware that Time Rings could do that as well, since they directly stated they can only be used to travel forward in time. It was never stated or implied Goku Black didn't know what a Time Ring actually was.

I thought Beerus said that, paraphrased here, "Even Gods are only allowed to travel forward in time except under special circumstances" or something like that. I may be 100% wrong here but I thought something to that effect was said.

I don't remember him actually saying the Time Ring can only go forward. You'd be stuck in the future every time you used it if that were the case right?

WEll duh. That's what I largely meant. I meant that you aren't supposed to be able to use it to travel back in time. I'm saying Black's confusion with the Time Ring was due to it's abnormal reaction to Trunks' time travel, rather than being confused on what he was wearing like the poster I was responding to suggested. It was never suggested Black didn't know what a Time Ring was.

Hmm I wasn't arguing your point I was just asking if it was ever stated the Time Ring can't go backwards. It really wouldn't make sense to steal things if you don't know what they do...so I thought it was pretty obvious he at least knew what it was if not how to use it properly.

[Rubens]

Well, despite not being very clear with the current timeline, there are still many years, even decades, between "now" and Trunk's future. This leaves plenty of room for Zamasu to evolve into Black. It's a bit how a serial killer starts off by starting fires and killing small animals, then he grows up to start killing humans and become more and more efficient until he's stopped.

In the latest episode you can see traits of Black in Zamasu: he wonders about the chaotic nature of humans (or lesser beings) and Gowasu is constantly reminding him of his place as a god; before fighting Goku, a mere human, he poured a pure tea - after fighting Goku, his hatred towards humans grew and displayed part of his darkness.

I also believe that whatever made Zamasu turn "evil" and take the time ring, also made him search for a powerful body, a "vessel" if you will, and combine with it (either with the potara earrings or not) - then he discovers Goku in the afterlife. Remember Whis saying Zamasu used to be a Kaio? That means Zamasu knows how and where to find strong bodies; he found Goku and somehow, took his body and used it to lay waste on the universe(s). Maybe Black's ki is a combination of his with Goku's, hence being different, or Zamasu's just ki being similar to Black's, but not quite the same, may indicate there's a third party envolved into this process.

Concluding, yes, I think Zamasu is Black, but there must be something else to the story.

[HeroR]

I'm still sticking to my theory that what's happening here is that Zamasu has to "split" away from his evil side to officially become a Kaioshin, similar to how Kami attained God-hood on Earth. Zamasu splits into two, and the evil demon side is what eventually becomes Black. Black goes rogue, steals a Time Ring, and somehow runs into Future Goku in the afterlife and possesses his body (not fusion, but possession). Remember we've already seen Gods have the ability to possess other people's bodies like Kami did to Shen in the Piccolo arc. Black is a representation of Zamasu's inner hatred for mortals.

So why did Black act like this was the first time meeting Goku and saying, 'so this is the power of Super Saiyan Goku'.

Also, the biggest problem with this cleansing theory is that what Kami did wasn't normal. He even said himself that in his rush to become guardian/god he separated his evil. I don't think Zamasu would be in a rush and even if he did separated from his evil side, the Kais should have systems in place to prevent it from escaping. Finally, why would it go into Future Trunks' time? Shouldn't the timeline be connected to the present timeline's future since that is when Goku and Beerus saw Zamasu.

[HeroR]

I'm still sticking to my theory that what's happening here is that Zamasu has to "split" away from his evil side to officially become a Kaioshin, similar to how Kami attained God-hood on Earth. Zamasu splits into two, and the evil demon side is what eventually becomes Black. Black goes rogue, steals a Time Ring, and somehow runs into Future Goku in the afterlife and possesses his body (not fusion, but possession). Remember we've already seen Gods have the ability to possess other people's bodies like Kami did to Shen in the Piccolo arc. Black is a representation of Zamasu's inner hatred for mortals.

So why did Black act like this was the first time meeting Goku and saying, 'so this is the power of Super Saiyan Goku'.

Also, the biggest problem with this cleansing theory is that what Kami did wasn't normal. He even said himself that in his rush to become guardian/god he separated his evil. I don't think Zamasu would be in a rush and even if he did separated from his evil side, the Kais should have systems in place to prevent it from escaping. Finally, why would it go into Future Trunks' time? Shouldn't the timeline be connected to the present timeline's future since that is when Goku and Beerus saw Zamasu.

Well, despite not being very clear with the current timeline, there are still many years, even decades, between "now" and Trunk's future. This leaves plenty of room for Zamasu to evolve into Black. It's a bit how a serial killer starts off by starting fires and killing small animals, then he grows up to start killing humans and become more and more efficient until he's stopped.

In the latest episode you can see traits of Black in Zamasu: he wonders about the chaotic nature of humans (or lesser beings) and Gowasu is constantly reminding him of his place as a god; before fighting Goku, a mere human, he poured a pure tea - after fighting Goku, his hatred towards humans grew and displayed part of his darkness.

I also believe that whatever made Zamasu turn "evil" and take the time ring, also made him search for a powerful body, a "vessel" if you will, and combine with it (either with the potara earrings or not) - then he discovers Goku in the afterlife. Remember Whis saying Zamasu used to be a Kaio? That means Zamasu knows how and where to find strong bodies; he found Goku and somehow, took his body and used it to lay waste on the universe(s). Maybe Black's ki is a combination of his with Goku's, hence being different, or Zamasu's just ki being similar to Black's, but not quite the same, may indicate there's a third party envolved into this process.

Concluding, yes, I think Zamasu is Black, but there must be something else to the story.

Future Goku wouldn't be anywhere near as powerful as present Goku since he wouldn't know about the world of god energy. And again, why would Zamasu's time link to Future Trunks' time? Better question, why would he travel into the future anyway?

[Luke Groundwalker]

I'm still sticking to my theory that what's happening here is that Zamasu has to "split" away from his evil side to officially become a Kaioshin, similar to how Kami attained God-hood on Earth. Zamasu splits into two, and the evil demon side is what eventually becomes Black. Black goes rogue, steals a Time Ring, and somehow runs into Future Goku in the afterlife and possesses his body (not fusion, but possession). Remember we've already seen Gods have the ability to possess other people's bodies like Kami did to Shen in the Piccolo arc. Black is a representation of Zamasu's inner hatred for mortals.

So why did Black act like this was the first time meeting Goku and saying, 'so this is the power of Super Saiyan Goku'.

Also, the biggest problem with this cleansing theory is that what Kami did wasn't normal. He even said himself that in his rush to become guardian/god he separated his evil. I don't think Zamasu would be in a rush and even if he did separated from his evil side, the Kais should have systems in place to prevent it from escaping. Finally, why would it go into Future Trunks' time? Shouldn't the timeline be connected to the present timeline's future since that is when Goku and Beerus saw Zamasu.

Black might've never actually encountered Goku in an actual battle and instead just taken over his body.

Also where did you hear Kami expelling Piccolo was a rush job? Never heard about that in my life.

On the Zamasu/time travel stuff: It's possible the flow of time is secluded to each of their respective universes, that's why.

[Chuquita]

Maybe Zamasu does kill Gowasu and steals his potara. O_O

Or enough time passes where Gowasu passes away and Zamasu inherits the earrings.

[HeroR]

Black might've never actually encountered Goku in an actual battle and instead just taken over his body.

Also where did you hear Kami expelling Piccolo was a rush job? Never heard about that in my life.

On the Zamasu/time travel stuff: It's possible the flow of time is secluded to each of their respective universes, that's why.

Why would he take Goku's body if he doesn't even know how good he is? That kind of destroys the point of him chosen him.

It was said in the Japanese text that Kami in his rush to become god/guardian expelled all the evil from his heart.

I don't get that last part. Since Goku and Beerus met Zamasu in the present timeline, then Zamasu should only be able to travel to the present future. And that still doesn't explain why Zamasu would time-travel to begin with.

Maybe Zamasu does kill Gowasu and steals his potara. O_O

Or enough time passes where Gowasu passes away and Zamasu inherits the earrings.

Not sure why he would take Gowasu's earrings. They are the same exact for the color.

[buutenks]

Maybe Gowasu is black.

[Rubens]

In the latest episode you can see traits of Black in Zamasu: he wonders about the chaotic nature of humans (or lesser beings) and Gowasu is constantly reminding him of his place as a god; before fighting Goku, a mere human, he poured a pure tea - after fighting Goku, his hatred towards humans grew and displayed part of his darkness.

I also believe that whatever made Zamasu turn "evil" and take the time ring, also made him search for a powerful body, a "vessel" if you will, and combine with it (either with the potara earrings or not) - then he discovers Goku in the afterlife. Remember Whis saying Zamasu used to be a Kaio? That means Zamasu knows how and where to find strong bodies; he found Goku and somehow, took his body and used it to lay waste on the universe(s). Maybe Black's ki is a combination of his with Goku's, hence being different, or Zamasu's just ki being similar to Black's, but not quite the same, may indicate there's a third party envolved into this process.

Concluding, yes, I think Zamasu is Black, but there must be something else to the story.

Future Goku wouldn't be anywhere near as powerful as present Goku since he wouldn't know about the world of god energy. And again, why would Zamasu's time link to Future Trunks' time? Better question, why would he travel into the future anyway?

About future Goku's power, that's just speculative: in 7 years in the afterlife he reached ssj3; now imagine how strong he'd get after decades (not suggesting he would be even close to what he is now, but still).

I only made a paralel between Trunks's timeline and current timeline. I'm saying what could have possibly happened in Trunks's timeline, which is a future timeline, and what traces there are in the current timeline that suggest how Zamasu can evolve into Black (future).

[gofishus]

My reasoning on why Zamasu is Black: They both view mortals as more or less inferior, they both have an instinct for fighting, they have similar ki which should have been brought up to Gowasu if he were Black. Black also knew who Goku was and he couldn't have originated in Trunks timeline if it's because he met Goku and stole his body because Goku is dead in Trunk's timeline, so how did he know of Goku? I believe this very moment of when Goku fought Zamasu is when he decided to create Black, a future Zamasu if you will.

My reasoning on why Zamasu is not Black: Why the heck would a kaioshin from universe 10 send Black to universe 7 in future Trunk's timeline, when he said at the end of the latest episode he wanted to pay Goku back?

It's really hard to gain evidence on Zamasu without his future counterpart coming into play, which would make sense of everything. BUT if that's the case, why would he send Black to Trunks timeline instead of going to destroy Goku? One could argue he did that and he stole Goku's body and traveled to Trunks timeline but Goku's still alive so it wouldn't make sense!

My conclusion/Theory: There has to be a future Zamasu and a 2nd alternate timeline different from Trunks's in play here.

No one is talking about this, but how can Black take Goku's form if he didn't know who he was? In Trunk's timeline, Goku has been dead for some time. How the heck can Zamasu/Black take on Goku's form in the first place?

[DainIronfoot]

I'm not sure if anyone has seen the db Hero's trailer. I know it isn't always reflective on what exactly happens but there was something in it that I saw that I caught. Did anyone notice Zamasu wasn't wearing his orange earrings? He had 1 Green earring on his left ear similar to Black. There has to be some kind of effect this Potara or the way it's put on has.

[UpFromTheSkies]

I read a comic that theorized that Gokû Black is a Gokû that Zamasu used the time ring to travel and kidnapped from Grandpa Gohan at a young age and raised him himself.

I don't know who the author was though.

They can't use the time rings to travel to the past, though. Black was only able to travel to the past by following the path ripped in time that Trunks time machine made, but as it closed, it pulled Black back into the future.

[sailorspazz]

I don't think it's possible for the Zamasu we met to be Black with the way time travel works in this series. If he's in Trunks' timeline causing destruction, how can he also simultaneously be in Universe 10 when Beerus and co. come to visit? If Zamasu somehow is Black, it would have to be a different version of him, but that would be a version that never would've met Gokuu and have no reason to take on that appearance. But maybe it's possible that the Zamasu we met travels to meet himself in a separate timeline and gives his other self the idea of stealing Gokuu's body to cause destruction...but then the question would be, why would he go that route rather than just taking care of things himself?

I think at this time, I'm more on board with him either creating Black, or that Black was split off from him ala Piccolo and God. But the single Potara Black wears that matches Gowasu's is still causing me to wonder what's really going on...

[gofishus]

I don't think it's possible for the Zamasu we met to be Black with the way time travel works in this series. If he's in Trunks' timeline causing destruction, how can he also simultaneously be in Universe 10 when Beerus and co. come to visit? If Zamasu somehow is Black, it would have to be a different version of him, but that would be a version that never would've met Gokuu and have no reason to take on that appearance. But maybe it's possible that the Zamasu we met travels to meet himself in a separate timeline and gives his other self the idea of stealing Gokuu's body to cause destruction...but then the question would be, why would he go that route rather than just taking care of things himself?

I think at this time, I'm more on board with him either creating Black, or that Black was split off from him ala Piccolo and God. But the single Potara Black wears that matches Gowasu's is still causing me to wonder what's really going on...

exactly, how is he stealing Goku's body? A guy he's never met in that timeline and has been dead for several years...?

[buutenks]

So lets see:

Black never met goku/Zamasu has met Goku
Black couldnt sense ki/Zamasu has no such issues
Black admires Goku/Zamasu hates Goku.

Plus Zamasu has orange potara earrings, while Black has green.

However, Black and Zamasu' ki feel very similar, but they arent the same.

[DHM211]

They have similar but different aura's.

[sailorspazz]

After thinking a bit, I started to wonder if time travel creating split timelines is something that would affect only the universe it occurred in, rather than all universes. So even though there are multiple versions of Universe 7, maybe there's only one Universe 10. Following this meeting with Gokuu from our timeline, maybe Zamasu decides to travel to 7, but he ends up in future Trunks' timeline instead (some time before Black existed) and then ??? happens and Black is created somehow. Maybe he even used the time ring to travel to that future, stole Gokuu's body from the afterlife, imbued it with his hatred for humanity, then left Black to carry on his bidding.

I don't even know if I'm getting my thoughts across right (I'm confused myself ), just trying to figure out how it makes sense for Black to be related to Zamasu when he's from a different timeline. I'm still not convinced that Zamasu actually is Black, but it seems more likely for them to be connected if there's only one Zamasu and he ends up visiting the future timeline.

[DainIronfoot]

They have similar but different aura's.

Zamasu's aura is an aura of "purity". Light colors are shown. This is because although he mistrust humans (at that moment) he was still pure according to Gowasu. Black's aura is the opposite. Of course, he is far from pure.

That's what I get from it haha.