The Vegeta Controversy - What did you expect?

[Yomi]

There's been a community Backlash to Vegeta's recent battle with Goku Black.
What did they really expect to happen? Vegeta to come in there and end Black
because "he needs a kill", arc over. Would that really make people happier? Did
they also forget that Goku was also beaten by Black, then spared by Zamasu?

I don't see the supposed formula. Of Vegeta getting jobbed.
I remember it happened with Cell and Frieza.

Beerus beats Goku first, then everyone else, then beats Goku again.

Goku was winning against Golden Frieza, Golden Frieza cheap shotted Goku,
Vegeta was winning, Golden Frieza cheep shotted Vegeta, then Goku steals his kill because he had to.

Vegeta loses to hit, Goku loses to hit.

I'm not seeing the pattern here. Especially this supposed pattern of Goku "coming in and beating up the bad guy and saving the day"
since he hasn't beaten one bad guy in Super since Frieza I suppose. Monaka defeated Copy Vegeta.

[Cipher]

If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.

[fadeddreams5]

I'm sure the people complaining are the ones that have clamored for decades that Vegeta should get a kill.

That said, me personally, I would have enjoyed a longer battle/beatdown, and/or far better choreography and animation. What we got was a very rushed and uninspired sequence. Compare it to when Majin Vegeta fought Majin Buu. At first, he is mercilessly beating him down--you can almost feel every blow! Piccolo is stunned by his power increase. Then, the tables quickly turn and it becomes clear Vegeta is outclassed. This culminates in his sacrifice. It was an amazing showdown with similar results to the recent Goku Black clash, but it was divided into longer phases: Vegeta's beatdown, Fat Buu's power-up and torture, and Vegeta's sacrifice. It was simply more exciting and compelling.

I just feel this was a very important battle in Super, with many events unfolding in it, but ultimately, it felt anticlimactic and lazy. Everyone knew how this fight was going to play out (well, besides passionate Vegeta fanboys), but the way it did left a lot to be desired. I am sure Toyotaro will draw a better fight than this in his manga.

[TheMikado]

The controversy is that Vegeta never gets credit for saving the day. Gohan got one, I guess Piccolo got one with Radditz, Trunks technically got a few in his own timeline plus the mecha Frieza save. The complain is that Vegeta's only function is to make Goku look good and never gets to save the day himself against the big Bad.

This one was particularly bad similar to the Hit one where Vegeta was out in like three punches as SSB but Goku fights Hit in base.. He was just conpletely upstaged even at supposedly similar power levels and this time the enemy added insult to injury by stating Vegeta was nothing and he was waiting to fight Goku for he real battle. After a while I guess fans get tired of hearing that even if the character doesn't.

[FoolsGil]

What, just because the humans, Piccolo, a18, Buu and non important Saiyans was removed from fighting, Dragonball Super would stop being a shonen series? Of course not!

The only thing that may subvert everything is that Trunks will become SSJBlue, and even so, he'll either kill one or none of Black and Zamasu. The fat may have been trimmed, but shonen is still shonen. And Goku is still Goku, and Vegeta's job is to make Goku look good.

[ChronoTwigger]

There are people asking for a Piccolo god boost, so the problem is not Vegeta. Is the people.

[TheMikado]

There are people asking for a Piccolo god boost, so the problem is not Vegeta. Is the people.

To be honest, now they we know you can mysteriously gain it through 6 months of training there's no real reason for Piccolo not to get God Ki, similar to why there's no reason the guys training with King Kai couldn't learn kaioken for the sake of staying relevant later.

[sintzu]

A good amount of Vegeta's fans are too blind to see that he's one of the best handled characters in the franchises.

He was the 1st and only villain to truly beat Goku.
He was one of the hardest villains to beat and even then he only lost because of his miscalculation of where Gohan would fall.
He was Namek's 2nd main character and got multiple great fights and wiped out the majority of Freeza's men.
Bulma dumped Ymacha for him.
His son killed Freeza and is one of the franchise's best characters.
He was the 2nd Saiyan to reach Ssj and he saved Goku from #19 before completely destroying him.
He was the 1st Saiyan to go beyond Ssj and he completely owned Cell.
He was the only character who managed to help Gohan defeat Cell.
He was the only character who truly developed in the Buu arc.
He was the only Z fighter to be part of the manga's final battle.
During BOG he managed to surpass both mystic Gohan and Ssj3 Goku as a Ssj2.
During the RF arc he was the one who got to beat down Freeza while Goku got beaten up and nearly killed.
During the U6 arc he got beat 3 of their fighters and fight Hit.

Unfortunately, the above goes unnoticed and all they want is for him to get a kill even though what he got in the RF arc was a lot better cause the alternative would've been him getting beaten up left and right by Freeza only to kill him after Goku had already gotten him down on his knees.

[Yomi]

During the U6 arc he got beat 3 of their fighters and fight Hit.

Unfortunately, the above goes unnoticed and all they want is for him to get a kill even though what he got in the RF arc was a lot better cause the alternative would've been him getting beaten up left and right by Freeza only to kill him after Goku had already gotten him down on his knees.

I forgot all about that, Vegeta fought 3 people in succession and people really expected him to just hand Hit his ass?
Such weird fans.

[TheMikado]

During the U6 arc he got beat 3 of their fighters and fight Hit.

Unfortunately, the above goes unnoticed and all they want is for him to get a kill even though what he got in the RF arc was a lot better cause the alternative would've been him getting beaten up left and right by Freeza only to kill him after Goku had already gotten him down on his knees.

I forgot all about that, Vegeta fought 3 people in succession and people really expected him to just hand Hit his ass?
Such weird fans.

Well no the issue is he essentially one shots each of those guys as a SSJ. Then goes SSB and goes down on three hits which Goku starts out in base. Yes Vegeta has a decent all around life, but his character really is there to make Goku shine above all else which is the complaint. My personal preference is that Vegeta not be around at all and doing his own thing at her than being Gokus constant wingman.

[LightBing]

There are people asking for a Piccolo god boost, so the problem is not Vegeta. Is the people.

To be honest, now they we know you can mysteriously gain it through 6 months of training there's no real reason for Piccolo not to get God Ki, similar to why there's no reason the guys training with King Kai couldn't learn kaioken for the sake of staying relevant later.

Vegeta is only a God due to SSJB, otherwise he wouldn't have any God Ki. If you're a Saiyan in Dragon Ball you won the genetic lottery. Being a Namekian isn't bad but we've seen the ceiling.

He was the 1st and only villain to truly beat Goku.

Tao Pai Pai, Piccolo Daimao and Raditz. The last one we can consider a tie, he still beat Goku.

[MozillaVulpix]

The problem comes with fans who seriously think Vegeta should be the main character of this series. Basically because they don't like Goku, and they think Vegeta is a better character, so he deserves to be the main character. And because Gohan killed Cell, that means every character is allowed to kill a main villain at some point. Even though the only reason Gohan got to kill Cell was because Goku was being retired.

That being said, I am a LITTLE worried that Vegeta might be getting Worfed a bit too often in Super. At least against Hit, he showed off his competence by beating 3 guys in a row just before that. But here, we hadn't seen Vegeta fight in the whole arc, and the first thing he gets is a loss. If they don't establish him as a competent fighter at some point, it could seriously start getting to Yamcha in Dragon Ball levels.

[Kamiccolo9]

There are people asking for a Piccolo god boost, so the problem is not Vegeta. Is the people.

To be honest, now they we know you can mysteriously gain it through 6 months of training there's no real reason for Piccolo not to get God Ki, similar to why there's no reason the guys training with King Kai couldn't learn kaioken for the sake of staying relevant later.

Vegeta is only a God due to SSJB, otherwise he wouldn't have any God Ki. If you're a Saiyan in Dragon Ball you won the genetic lottery. Being a Namekian isn't bad but we've seen the ceiling.

He was the 1st and only villain to truly beat Goku.

Tao Pai Pai, Piccolo Daimao and Raditz. The last one we can consider a tie, he still beat Goku.

And Cell. Either by giving up and admitting that he couldn't win, or dying at Cell's hands when he blew himself up. Either way, Goku lost. Beerus beats him in BoG, Freeza and Sorbet beat him in RF, with Goku coming back later to finish Freeza off, but I think we can consider that a separate event than the actual fight.

I'd argue that Vegeta didn't even really definitively beat Goku in the first place. Goku was crippled, sure, but he was still actively contributing to the fight up until the end. Goku is the one that got Gohan under control, and it's not like he was knocked out or anything; Vegeta was still beating up on him up until right before Gohan transformed.

As for Sinzu's list, you can put so many asterisks beside each of those points that it's ridiculous.

[Lujin_16]

He lost at the beginning right but what if he becomes a 2 chance??

I would wait

[Hit!!]

I'm starting to think Vegeta is putting on an act. He might not be as wounded as we think he is.

[Nejishiki]

I'm starting to think Vegeta is putting on an act. He might not be as wounded as we think he is.

Yes, it's merely a flesh wound. He's been through (relatively) worse hell when it comes to pain and punishment. He'll walk it off.

[SansrivaaL]

Are people already forgetting Vegeta just defeated Goku? via rock paper scissors. He's already defeated his lifetime rival, why complain more?

[dbgtFO]

Are people already forgetting Vegeta just defeated Goku? via rock paper scissors. He's already defeated his lifetime rival, why complain more?

Then Vegeta shouldn't have been so dead-set on fighting Goku again in the Buu Arc, as he also won the Rock-Paper-Scissors then!

[SansrivaaL]

Are people already forgetting Vegeta just defeated Goku? via rock paper scissors. He's already defeated his lifetime rival, why complain more?

Then Vegeta shouldn't have been so dead-set on fighting Goku again in the Buu Arc, as he also won the Rock-Paper-Scissors then!

But.... but didnt Goku won that rock paper scissors match then?

[kinisking]

Are people already forgetting Vegeta just defeated Goku? via rock paper scissors. He's already defeated his lifetime rival, why complain more?

You got me! To be honest, a lot of Vegeta fans won't be satisfied until he's completely equal to Goku. Who cares if Goku's the main character? Who cares if he got lucky enough to be the only other relevant character from Z? They want more.