"Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

[1345521]

Can someone PLEASE explain to me why some people only watch Sub versions of Dragon ball and can't stand dub and yet they speak english and only english? Like cmon...
I can get OLD dub (Which to me is GOAT DUB) but they can't even stand the new modern kai-ish dub for super?
Sean schemal goku irrataes you? you can't stand sabat vegeta?
I don't know, it seems weird.

[Cure Dragon 255]

First they said SUBS. The equivalent to your analogy would be that they want to watch the movie in JAPANESE WITHOUT SUBTITLES which they dont. Second the Funimation dub of Super really seems intent on deviating from the Japanese Script. And before you say "Oh you are just a Weaboo",I like my dub which is the Latin American one thank you very much.

[Scsigs]

First they said SUBS. The equivalent to your analogy would be that they want to watch the movie in JAPANESE WITHOUT SUBTITLES which they dont. Second the Funimation dub of Super really seems intent on deviating from the Japanese Script. And before you say "Oh you are just a Weaboo", I like my dub which is the Latin American one thank you very much.

The FUNimation dub is perfectly accurate to the Japanese, while also adapting the script to work in English & also having fun with it. I don't see how people don't get that. From what I can see, it has as many deviations as Kai's dub, which didn't have many, but they were there. They had references to Team Four Star, the same kind of dialogue people claim is fitting too many words into the lines (which are only there to match the lipflaps, I may add), some small adlibbing, & other things. Granted, I'll have to have the Blu-Rays when they get the Season ones out (because I refuse to pay $30 for only 13 episodes, brand new) to fully judge the dub scripts against Simmons' subs for the Japanese audio, but they're usually not that off, just changed around a bit. The way I see it, Kai 1-98 was finishing a race in first place, Kai TFC was them taking a victory lap, & Super, plus the 2 preceding movies, are just more of that.

By the way, I don't think anyone who likes anime can unironically call someone a weeb just because they watch the original Japanese version. Plus, I don't think he was insinuating that people wanna watch the original Japanese version of the film unsubbed, since you'd have to be fluent in Japanese to even remotely attempt that, which most anime fans aren't over here. People are just confused about apparently no subbed screenings, having to wait for the home release. I mean, most of the box office returns over here come from dub fans, right? Toei are just going with the money, simple. I mean, I feel for sub fans, but it's not like you guys aren't getting the original version eventually. It's just not gonna be theatrically.

[Shaddy]

People like experiencing things in their original form, clear and simple. Watching Dragon Ball in Japanese is the only way to get the original intent and idea of the writers' dialogue across, since there is no such thing as 100% accurate translation. Even if you speak English, you also get nuance and enunciation in the JP performances that isn't in the dub. Whether this makes or breaks the series depends on the person, but this forum is dedicated to Dragon Ball in it's source quality. That's why we have giant threads for the correct colors of the DVDs or restoring the original soundtracks of each series. I don't think there's a ton of sub absolutists who think the Japanese language is the only acceptable one or anything, but it's a lot more than just the language you speak.

In the grand scheme of things, Kai's dub is well-liked because it's the most accurate translation the TV series ever got, in terms of each line's intent and even some wording to the Japanese version. It corrects a lot of character names, attack names and personality traits that the previous English versions completely messed up, like Frieza (though I guess I've still got the unfortunate trait of putting that 'i' in his name). This is all on top of not replacing the soundtrack and every actor involved having way more experience and better direction than the 90s dub (even if I miss Nadolny for Kid Goku.I mean, they matched her with Courtney Taylor in OK KO and it was great can they do that here too?). General script accuracy, voices that match the characters and performance quality are the biggest factors when it comes to dubs here.

Super's dub is disliked because it is sort-of like Kai's dub, where almost all of the relevant information, character and attack names, and general personalities are kept, but they throw in stupid meme lines because Sabat watched too much DBZ abridged and thinks that because the dub came a lot later that means he can inject stupid bullshit into the script. I actually don't really mind this at all, because it tends to be throwaway lines, but I understand the frustration and there's a lot more depth to the discussion than "well it's in English".

The big storm in this thread recently was said dub taking this a step too far and putting a Xenoverse 2 meme in an episode where Hit fucking kills Goku, and while I don't agree with Ajay saying it's as bad as Funi's early Z dub ('pop goes the weasel? seriously?') it's certainly a stretch to say Super's dub is just as accurate as early Kai's. That should have been the standard, not the exception.

[shadowmaria]

Can someone PLEASE explain to me why some people only watch Sub versions of Dragon ball and can't stand dub and yet they speak english and only english? Like cmon...
I can get OLD dub (Which to me is GOAT DUB) but they can't even stand the new modern kai-ish dub for super?
Sean schemal goku irrataes you? you can't stand sabat vegeta?
I don't know, it seems weird.

Why do people become vegan's when humans have inherently evolved to be omnivores? Same thing; choice.

[Scsigs]

People like experiencing things in their original form, clear and simple. Watching Dragon Ball in Japanese is the only way to get the original intent and idea of the writers' dialogue across, since there is no such thing as 100% accurate translation. Even if you speak English, you also get nuance and enunciation in the JP performances that isn't in the dub. Whether this makes or breaks the series depends on the person, but this forum is dedicated to Dragon Ball in it's source quality. That's why we have giant threads for the correct colors of the DVDs or restoring the original soundtracks of each series. I don't think there's a ton of sub absolutists who think the Japanese language is the only acceptable one or anything, but it's a lot more than just the language you speak.

Yet this is a thread for the FUNi dub. The series in general has its own forum, which is where a lot of people have discussed it as the sub aired. It's also why there's forums for the manga, the Ocean dub of Kai, & the Bang Zoom dub of Super. Many of these forums are still very active. Hell, a while back some dude claimed that this thread was dead just because there wasn't much to talk about one week & was a general dick about things for no reason. Thankfully, he's been long dealt with, but that's besides the point. Point is, I don't think it's productive to complain & nitpick every single line for accuracy, since you're never gonna get that in a dub 100%.

In the grand scheme of things, Kai's dub is well-liked because it's the most accurate translation the TV series ever got, in terms of each line's intent and even some wording to the Japanese version. It corrects a lot of character names, attack names and personality traits that the previous English versions completely messed up, like Frieza (though I guess I've still got the unfortunate trait of putting that 'i' in his name). This is all on top of not replacing the soundtrack and every actor involved having way more experience and better direction than the 90s dub (even if I miss Nadolny for Kid Goku. I mean, they matched her with Courtney Taylor in OK KO and it was great can they do that here too?). General script accuracy, voices that match the characters and performance quality are the biggest factors when it comes to dubs here.

Character names, I don't think so. Attack names are inconsistent. They changed them back for their first uses if they got changed, but in binging the show several times, I noticed that the ones they changed back, they rechanged back to their dub names for some reason. Personality traits, yeah, they did for the ones that they changed in the first place. No more Jesus/Superman Goku, no stupid line about Frieza threatening Vegeta with killing his father that made no sense, & no more stupid lines that are just there to be stupid. Kai's got it in spades.

Super's dub is disliked because it is sort-of like Kai's dub, where almost all of the relevant information, character and attack names, and general personalities are kept, but they throw in stupid meme lines because Sabat watched too much DBZ abridged and thinks that because the dub came a lot later that means he can inject stupid bullshit into the script. I actually don't really mind this at all, because it tends to be throwaway lines, but I understand the frustration and there's a lot more depth to the discussion than "well it's in English".

When did they throw meme lines in the dub of Super? Maybe it's my memory being bad because I haven't rewatched the episodes yet, but I can't think of meme lines. I can think of lines that some people think are those type of lines, but actually aren't, like Vegeta's "I'm the star of this show," where it seems to lean on the fourth wall, but actually works in context. Maybe you're right about them being throw away lines, but I don't remember a lot of them.

The big storm in this thread recently was said dub taking this a step too far and putting a Xenoverse 2 meme in an episode where Hit fucking kills Goku, and while I don't agree with Ajay saying it's as bad as Funi's early Z dub ('pop goes the weasel'? seriously?') it's certainly a stretch to say Super's dub is just as accurate as early Kai's. That should have been the standard, not the exception.

I can see that as being egregious, but here's the thing. The Kai dub flat-out references Team Four Star with Nappa saying he hates the media: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdjwpmvMi-g, Goku saying Mr. Popo looks scary, & a Frieza soldier yelling with a Wilhelm Scream when he gets shot in the dub in the exact same scene TFS put it in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI9tcvm4qws. Then TFC flat-out had TFS in the dub, with Lani, Taka, Kaiser, & Masako in the dub of the Cell Games Reenactment scene before it was taken out of the audio when [Adult Swim] played it in a commercial & Toei forced them to remove it hastily. That last one is pretty recent, but I think people tend to forget the fact that Sabat's been doing this shit for a while, but people like to cherry pick what they complain about because of what's recent, I think. And then I'm left sitting here shaking my head in disbelief. They're having fun with them & you can tell. I seriously don't get this hypocrisy.

[Shaddy]

Yet this is a thread for the FUNi dub. The series in general has its own forum, which is where a lot of people have discussed it as the sub aired. It's also why there's forums for the manga, the Ocean dub of Kai, & the Bang Zoom dub of Super. Many of these forums are still very active. Hell, a while back some dude claimed that this thread was dead just because there wasn't much to talk about one week & was a general dick about things for no reason. Thankfully, he's been long dealt with, but that's besides the point. Point is, I don't think it's productive to complain & nitpick every single line for accuracy, since you're never gonna get that in a dub 100%.

I don't disagree? I was just replying to 1345521's question. A lot of this goes beyond nitpicks, I might add.

When did they throw meme lines in the dub of Super? Maybe it's my memory being bad because I haven't rewatched the episodes yet, but I can't think of meme lines. I can think of lines that some people think are those type of lines, but actually aren't, like Vegeta's "I'm the star of this show," where it seems to lean on the fourth wall, but actually works in context. Maybe you're right about them being throw away lines, but I don't remember a lot of them.

All the extra Yamcha bashing, Magetta being voiced by a text-to-speech (which isn't really a meme but was a dumb decision anyway), "do not interrupt the grillmaster" and the donuts line are the ones I remember off the top of my head, but I know there's plenty more that people can tell you about. Ajay and Terez had huge threads going on about it on twitter (probably with others as well). I don't pay religious attention to this stuff, I was only explaining why Super's dub is criticized.

I can see that as being egregious, but here's the thing. The Kai dub flat-out references Team Four Star with Nappa saying he hates the media: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdjwpmvMi-g, Goku saying Mr. Popo looks scary, & a Frieza soldier yelling with a Wilhelm Scream when he gets shot in the dub in the exact same scene TFS put it in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI9tcvm4qws. Then TFC flat-out had TFS in the dub, with Lani, Taka, Kaiser, & Masako in the dub of the Cell Games Reenactment scene before it was taken out of the audio when [Adult Swim] played it in a commercial & Toei forced them to remove it hastily. That last one is pretty recent, but I think people tend to forget the fact that Sabat's been doing this shit for a while, but people like to cherry pick what they complain about because of what's recent, I think. And then I'm left sitting here shaking my head in disbelief. They're having fun with them & you can tell. I seriously don't get this hypocrisy.

First off, just because something isn't a new issue doesn't mean it's not an issue. I'm pretty sure people have been complaining the whole way through, either way. I don't think it's hypocritical to criticize a dub for doing anything else than translating the series. The only time for questionably-negotiable change beyond proper English wordflow is shit that literally doesn't function or hold meaning without being in Japanese, like complicated word play in the Monogatari series (which hasn't been dubbed anyway as far as I can tell). Super is most definitely worse with it than Kai 1 or 2, it just doesn't spread misinformation or destroy character personalities like Z did. It never personally bothered me all that much, but considering Funi themselves hold host to tons of more accurate dubs that have none of these problems and with way smaller fandoms, I think it's perfectly worthy of critique. This isn't Sabat's show, references to TFS are not going to be timeless or easily understood by a lot of general audiences, and "having fun with it" isn't their job. Again, I don't mind all this stuff, but it's not wrong to take issue with a translation obfuscating some lines for sake of a reference to internet jokes, especially not for stuff like the Hit scene which was never meant to be comedic in the first place.

Moreover, the fact that Sabat's own justification for this is "well everyone already watched it subbed" is a horrible stance to take. I didn't watch the subbed version until the dub was already going. My sister and dad watch the show with me, they never watched the sub, my sister straight up can't read subtitles. I don't think saying "just be happy with what you've got" is a good way to respond when they know what they're doing, and we know we could be getting better. If the dub was as accurate as could be, would anyone be worse off for it? Probably not.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Moreover, the fact that Sabat's own justification for this is "well everyone already watched it subbed" is a horrible stance to take. I didn't watch the subbed version until the dub was already going. My sister and dad watch the show with me, they never watched the sub, my sister straight up can't read subtitles. I don't think saying "just be happy with what you've got" is a good way to respond when they know what they're doing, and we know we could be getting better. If the dub was as accurate as could be, would anyone be worse off for it? Probably not.

I have a feeling Sabat was given orders from the higher ups who wanted Super's dub to be a mix of Kai's accuracy and Z's corniness. I just don't get how he can talk so proudly about Kai's dub fixing the mistakes of the Z dub only to go back on his word somewhat in Super by throwing in out of place jokes. I say "somewhat" because the jokes admittedly take up a small portion of otherwise accurate scripts but it still makes the Super dub a step back from Kai. And giving viewers something different is a ridiculous justification. What about viewers who are blind and can't read subtitles, or new viewers? Should they be denied the same experience as people who watch the Japanese version the first time around? Of course not. The job of dubbing is not to have fun with the scripts or create something new, it is to recreate the same experience in a different language, nothing more, nothing less.

[EXBadguy]

If any of you super subbers are SO fixated about accuracy, then tell me, why hasn't Toei step in to discipline Funimation yet, huh? Over one line and there became a war of the subbers vs dubbers, are you freaking kidding me?

[bleed0range]

Moreover, the fact that Sabat's own justification for this is "well everyone already watched it subbed" is a horrible stance to take. I didn't watch the subbed version until the dub was already going. My sister and dad watch the show with me, they never watched the sub, my sister straight up can't read subtitles. I don't think saying "just be happy with what you've got" is a good way to respond when they know what they're doing, and we know we could be getting better. If the dub was as accurate as could be, would anyone be worse off for it? Probably not.

I have a feeling Sabat was given orders from the higher ups who wanted Super's dub to be a mix of Kai's accuracy and Z's corniness. I just don't get how he can talk so proudly about Kai's dub fixing the mistakes of the Z dub only to go back on his word somewhat in Super by throwing in out of place jokes. I say "somewhat" because the jokes admittedly take up a small portion of otherwise accurate scripts but it still makes the Super dub a step back from Kai. And giving viewers something different is a ridiculous justification. What about viewers who are blind and can't read subtitles, or new viewers? Should they be denied the same experience as people who watch the Japanese version the first time around? Of course not. The job of dubbing is not to have fun with the scripts or create something new, it is to recreate the same experience in a different language, nothing more, nothing less.

I think Chris at this point feels that the English version should be slightly adjusted since the characters and the mood of the show has always been a bit different from the Japanese version. He’s perfectly fine with having a middle ground between a “perfect” translation and what Super does.

I personally feel he is right, because if you really want to see the original version it’s very widely available now. Most hardcore fans have seen all of Super already in Japanese. Even a lot of casuals saw it that way first and now understand the difference better.

That doesn’t mean they won’t still prefer the dub, the version they grew up with. I think they’re trying to capture the demographic who grew up with the dub who haven’t seen the Japanese version yet, so that’s why the changes are more present here than in Kai. I also think they just feel it’s okay to take a few small changes.

I honestly think people blow it way out of proportion. The whole thing about Hit saying “make the donuts” was stupid but it wasn’t necessarily wrong. I grew up with a dub that made beer look like frothy water, erased tears and threw in lines about it being a Sunday so it’s a shame nobody was in all those buildings we just destroyed! I don’t think this is worth complaining about.

I also became a huge fan of the Japanese version despite all that and so it’s not like people won’t know there’s a difference.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I personally feel he is right, because if you really want to see the original version it’s very widely available now. Most hardcore fans have seen all of Super already in Japanese. Even a lot of casuals saw it that way first and now understand the difference better.

But watching the Japanese version isn't convenient for everyone, as I said if a blind person wants to watch Super they should be able to get the same experience as anyone else. That means a dub which doesn't alter important lines of dialogue and keeps consistent tonally with the Japanese version.

The donut line changes all that and turns a serious scene into a meme. Sure its just one line but its setting aup precedent and if no one complains about it Funimation will think its ok to keep doing it.

We're also at risk of the fandom being split into dub vs sub debates all over again with people making excuses for the dub changes like "the Japanese dialogue is generic".

[Ajay]

If any of you super subbers are SO fixated about accuracy, then tell me, why hasn't Toei step in to discipline Funimation yet, huh? Over one line and there became a war of the subbers vs dubbers, are you freaking kidding me?

Because Toei don't actually care as long as it makes money. They also approved of 4Kids' One Piece dub, so that doesn't really mean anything.

[EXBadguy]

If any of you super subbers are SO fixated about accuracy, then tell me, why hasn't Toei step in to discipline Funimation yet, huh? Over one line and there became a war of the subbers vs dubbers, are you freaking kidding me?

Because Toei don't actually care as long as it makes money. They also approved of 4Kids' One Piece dub, so that doesn't really mean anything.

Well it is what it is. Just stick to the version you prefer. None of us owns the anime. So unless you wanna talk to Toei about disciplining Funimation or overthrowing the head of the company and do it yourself, complaints won't mean anything.

[VegettoEX]

Well it is what it is. Just stick to the version you prefer. None of us owns the anime. So unless you wanna talk to Toei about disciplining Funimation or overthrowing the head of the company and do it yourself, complaints won't mean anything.

You're effectively saying "All conversation is worthless. Nothing means anything. You cannot affect change. Everything is what it is."

This is wrong. We have directly affected change over the years specifically with regard to FUNimation's treatment of the Dragon Ball franchise.

If you don't want to have conversations, I'm not entirely sure why you're here in the first place. You can complain about the DLC structure and choices in FighterZ and make those thoughts known, but other people can't do the same about FUNimation's English dub of the franchise? That's bonkers. C'mon.

[PsionicWarrior]

Can someone PLEASE explain to me why some people only watch Sub versions of Dragon ball and can't stand dub and yet they speak english and only english? Like cmon...
I can get OLD dub (Which to me is GOAT DUB) but they can't even stand the new modern kai-ish dub for super?
Sean schemal goku irrataes you? you can't stand sabat vegeta?
I don't know, it seems weird.

Because I prefer the sub version so why would I watch the dubs if I prefer the subs nothing weird here mate cheers lol

[EXBadguy]

Well it is what it is. Just stick to the version you prefer. None of us owns the anime. So unless you wanna talk to Toei about disciplining Funimation or overthrowing the head of the company and do it yourself, complaints won't mean anything.

You're effectively saying "All conversation is worthless. Nothing means anything. You cannot affect change. Everything is what it is."

This is wrong. We have directly affected change over the years specifically with regard to FUNimation's treatment of the Dragon Ball franchise.

If you don't want to have conversations, I'm not entirely sure why you're here in the first place. You can complain about the DLC structure and choices in FighterZ and make those thoughts known, but other people can't do the same about FUNimation's English dub of the franchise? That's bonkers. C'mon.

I didn't say that people should stop complaining, I said that it's useless to complain unless you're doing something about it. Take the DLC for example, I'm doing something about it voting with my wallet. Again, if the altered lines bother you SO MUCH, go to Toei and Funimation and give them an earful.

[VegettoEX]

Again, if the altered lines bother you SO MUCH, go to Toei and Funimation and give them an earful.

People literally do this very thing.

They're also allowed to talk about it here.

[EXBadguy]

Again, if the altered lines bother you SO MUCH, go to Toei and Funimation and give them an earful.

People literally do this very thing.

They're also allowed to talk about it here.

Are they allowed to blow this shit out of proportion?

[VegettoEX]

Are they allowed to blow this shit under proportion?

People are allowed to talk about things that you do not personally like, so long as they live up to the spirit of the community guidelines.

As you continue to receive answers that you do not personally like about subject matter that you are not personally interested in, it is clear that you are not conversing in good faith. This conversation is over.

[Shaddy]

I have a feeling Sabat was given orders from the higher ups who wanted Super's dub to be a mix of Kai's accuracy and Z's corniness. I just don't get how he can talk so proudly about Kai's dub fixing the mistakes of the Z dub only to go back on his word somewhat in Super by throwing in out of place jokes.

I doubt it's any higher-ups controlling things. The way he's talking about it and the choices themselves tell me he's somewhat possessive of the dubbed series after so much time on the franchise and the hassle it took just for a consistent cast. This is nothing new, remember that crap with Schemmel and Kelamis at Kamehacon? I don't doubt that several of the people involved on this series have gotten clingy with it due to everything it's been through (in the case of Sean this is no excuse for rampant unprofessionalism).

I personally feel he is right, because if you really want to see the original version it’s very widely available now. Most hardcore fans have seen all of Super already in Japanese. Even a lot of casuals saw it that way first and now understand the difference better.

People shouldn't have to watch a show in another language just to have every line keep it's original intent. Besides, as I said, not everyone is perfectly capable of seeing the Japanese version, for various reasons. I mentioned my sister earlier, she's autistic and cannot read subtitles fast enough to enjoy the Japanese version of a show, but that part of the Hit episode should not be trying to make us laugh. So what's the option for someone like her who would still want the tone to actually fit?

(I mean, she doesn't care, but that's beside the point)

I honestly think people blow it way out of proportion. I grew up with a dub that made beer look like frothy water, erased tears and threw in lines about it being a Sunday so it’s a shame nobody was in all those buildings we just destroyed! I don’t think this is worth complaining about.

Now this I mostly agree with. I don't think every change made is all that bad. Jokes in comedic scenes, making dialogue flow better or heck, clearing up something that people took issue with in the JP version (the potara fusion stuff) is okay in my eyes, and a lot of this stuff is just throwaway lines that you could replace with basically anything and it wouldn't be that big a deal ("that invincible son of a bitch"). On the whole I'm not all that angry at this dub, but I do think others' frustration is justified because they have everything they need to make a more accurate dub. It's not any more difficult. If those lines are so throwaway, why feel the need to inject anything of their own at all? That's not their job, and moreover, nobody would be complaining if they just did things by the book like 80% of Eng dubs nowadays do anyway.