I find Goku to be the worst character in this show

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Abra kadabra
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I find Goku to be the worst character in this show

Post by Abra kadabra » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Edit- since Goku being an overall trash character can be interpreted in different ways. Some things need to be added. I'd like to discuss his affect on the supporting cast as well. Usually in shonen you have the main character and the supporting characters. This usually works well because the main character is interesting for example- Gon from HxH, Elric from Fullmetal alchemist, luffy from one piece, etc. And the supporting cast are written as well as (if not better than) the main character and continuesly add to the story. In dragon ball super this is the supporting cast are more interesting than the MC but the focus always remains on the MC.

Not only is Goku an uninteresting and poorly written character, the supporting characters suffer because of it. This was tolerated in Z because the focus was rarely ever on Goku for the majority of the arc giving other characters like piccolo, tien and krillin screentime. Goku was mostly a plot device (he still is) that would show up at the end and hog the focus there. In super however the focus is always on Goku and you start to notice how woefully garbage the character actually is.

He's a seriously unlikeable character tbh. Selfish, childish and idiotic. He's always been like this abandoning his family to train and risking the world for a fight. It's not the first time he's done this.

Let's Vegeta (who tried to blow up earth) live, let's freeza (mass genocidal tyrant) live and stands back to see how mirai trunks does against him because he's curious, gives cell (biomech murderer) a senzu bean and throws his pacifist son into the fight, threatens supreme kai's life because he wants to fight knowing Buu will be revived because of it and doesn't waste Buu right away since he had SSJ3 hidden in his ass the whole arc. I'm sure I'm missing a few and that just in Z.

Horrible character. Saving the world just happens to be a coincidence it seems. Honestly should have stayed dead. I'm glad everyones finally seeing how shit a character he is. It's about damn time :clap:
Last edited by Abra kadabra on Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:08 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by Saikyo no Senshi » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:10 pm

Gokuu is the most popular character on Kanzenshuu going by how many threads is being made and it's all about the same thing. You're the best Son!!! :clap:

All the things you just listed is what makes him a unique protagonist. That's why I like him. Yes, DBS Gokuu needs some work I can agree with that. His exaggerated traits annoys me at well at times, but not enough to dislike him.
Last edited by Saikyo no Senshi on Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by TBMx » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:13 pm

I'm holding out hope that they know what they're doing and making Goku turn heel. The evil look in the opening with the new red transformation makes me think far from being a boost in power maybe he's become too evil to sustain Super Saiyan Blue. As Super Saiyan God was supposed to be a good Saiyan. If goku doesn't undergo character development and learn from his mistakes, not only is he impossible to root for at this point and during the tournament, after the tournament Beerus would either destroy him outright, or cut all ties with him. Pretty much regardless of the outcome. Not doing so would really bury Beerus' character. All bark and no bite cos of Goku's impenetrable Main Character plot shield.

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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by Beyond » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:14 pm

The Goku hate train is going full force. Far surpassing Gohan who has the 2nd biggest, Vegeta who has the 3rd. F Trunks who also get crap now. You know it's a db right of passage to have people hate on you constantly. Even Piccolo gets hated on here. Krillin too.
Last edited by Beyond on Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by TheMathemagician » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:14 pm

Honestly, Goku is the best character in the show for me. He's become a lot more interesting lately imo.
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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by Lord Frieza » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:17 pm

Yes its almost like Goku is not a conventional, heroic protagonist.

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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by julianix » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:24 pm

Goku at one time was all about helping others and defeating evil. You know when evil was everywhere and easy to find.

Goku is a good person and he does genuinely care about others. The problem began when he started getting obsessed with fighting. He crossed the line somewhere on his journey and he literally doesn't see it.

Remember when Goku sacrifices himself against Raditz? That guy was a hero.

Current Goku is like a drug addict that just doesn't see the drugs are affecting his life. In his eyes drugs ( training)
Is not a problem. He's doesn't seem to realize the guy hasn't even spent time with his kids and wife. I mean you think chichi would be the biggest bitch if she wasn't having problems at home?

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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by SansrivaaL » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:34 pm

These threads all have different titles but has the same contents and purpose. Am I in a timeloop? fcking Barry and Strange pulling their shit again.
Anyways like someone on top said, Goku is now the most talked about character in the US arc, I'm starting to wonder if Toei made it intentional so that Goku would be this talked about :lol: anyhow well played Toei, my love for Goku grows, these are 1 of the reasons why you simply cannot replace Goku as the main character of Dragon Ball.

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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:36 pm

julianix wrote:Goku at one time was all about helping others and defeating evil. You know when evil was everywhere and easy to find.

Goku is a good person and he does genuinely care about others. The problem began when he started getting obsessed with fighting. He crossed the line somewhere on his journey and he literally doesn't see it.

Remember when Goku sacrifices himself against Raditz? That guy was a hero.

Current Goku is like a drug addict that just doesn't see the drugs are affecting his life. In his eyes drugs ( training)
Is not a problem. He's doesn't seem to realize the guy hasn't even spent time with his kids and wife. I mean you think chichi would be the biggest bitch if she wasn't having problems at home?
Goku spends plenty of time with his family, more or less all the time between the arcs he is always with them. He even went to see Gohan's film. This whole Goku is bad family man is a massive misconception that needs to go away.

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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by HeroR » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:39 pm

julianix wrote:Goku at one time was all about helping others and defeating evil. You know when evil was everywhere and easy to find.

Goku is a good person and he does genuinely care about others. The problem began when he started getting obsessed with fighting. He crossed the line somewhere on his journey and he literally doesn't see it.

Remember when Goku sacrifices himself against Raditz? That guy was a hero.

Current Goku is like a drug addict that just doesn't see the drugs are affecting his life. In his eyes drugs ( training)
Is not a problem. He's doesn't seem to realize the guy hasn't even spent time with his kids and wife. I mean you think chichi would be the biggest bitch if she wasn't having problems at home?
Goku has been a 'drug addict' since Dragon Ball. Remember when he spared Vegeta, the person who oversaw the murder of his friends and tried to kill his son, so he can fight him again? You know, the same person who gave his life to stop Raditz not even an arc ago?

And this line is amusing, 'guy hasn't even spent time with his kids and wife', when Super has shown Goku spending more time with Chi-Chi and his family than most of Z, and he even has a steady job.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:39 pm

Abra kadabra wrote:He's a seriously unlikeable character tbh. Selfish, childish and idiotic. He's always been like this abandoning his family to train and risking the world for a fight. It's not the first time he's done this.

Let's Vegeta (who tried to blow up earth) live, let's freeza (mass genocidal tyrant) live and stands back to see how mirai trunks does against him because he's curious, gives cell (biomech murderer) a senzu bean and throws his pacifist son into the fight, threatens supreme kai's life because he wants to fight knowing Buu will be revived because of it and doesn't waste Buu right away since he had SSJ3 hidden in his ass the whole arc. I'm sure I'm missing a few and that just in Z.

Horrible character. Saving the world just happens to be a coincidence it seems. Honestly should have stayed dead. I'm glad everyones finally seeing how shit a character he is. It's about damn time :clap:
Why do any of these things make him a 'bad character'? Maybe he would be a 'bad person' in real life, but how is he a 'bad character' within the context of fictionality?
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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by SansrivaaL » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:55 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Abra kadabra wrote:He's a seriously unlikeable character tbh. Selfish, childish and idiotic. He's always been like this abandoning his family to train and risking the world for a fight. It's not the first time he's done this.

Let's Vegeta (who tried to blow up earth) live, let's freeza (mass genocidal tyrant) live and stands back to see how mirai trunks does against him because he's curious, gives cell (biomech murderer) a senzu bean and throws his pacifist son into the fight, threatens supreme kai's life because he wants to fight knowing Buu will be revived because of it and doesn't waste Buu right away since he had SSJ3 hidden in his ass the whole arc. I'm sure I'm missing a few and that just in Z.

Horrible character. Saving the world just happens to be a coincidence it seems. Honestly should have stayed dead. I'm glad everyones finally seeing how shit a character he is. It's about damn time :clap:
Why do any of these things make him a 'bad character'? Maybe he would be a 'bad person' in real life, but how is he a 'bad character' within the context of fictionality?
Aw cmon, Goku wouldnt be a "bad person" in real life, I see him living most of his life just training martial arts, that being his way of income if he uses his brain :lol:

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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by TheMathemagician » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:58 pm

SansrivaaL wrote:These threads all have different titles but has the same contents and purpose. Am I in a timeloop? fcking Barry and Strange pulling their shit again.
Anyways like someone on top said, Goku is now the most talked about character in the US arc, I'm starting to wonder if Toei made it intentional so that Goku would be this talked about :lol: anyhow well played Toei, my love for Goku grows, these are 1 of the reasons why you simply cannot replace Goku as the main character of Dragon Ball.
This is truth. He'll remain arguably the most talked about for the entire saga most likely as well.
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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by Ki Breaker » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:03 pm

Lord Frieza wrote:Yes its almost like Goku is not a conventional, heroic protagonist.
I know right, almost like he isn't super man
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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by Faustus » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:05 pm

This is quite a facile reading of the character. As many have often pointed out, the genius of Goku is that while he does not have a trace of malice in his heart his purity is not a moral purity and does not entail righteousness; and by the same token even as his ever escalating obsessions lead him incidentally to gamble with others' safety increasingly as the series goes on he continues all the while (and just as incidentally) to improve the world around him, converting deadly rivals into allies. Thus the same basic cocktail of traits -- (1) his essential innocence, (2) his core wuxia drive, inflamed by his martial arts upbringing and later a consciousness of his Saiyan heritage, and (3) his desire to help and protect others from the threats he attracts and is attracted to -- simultaneously proves his virtue and his vice. The drama Battle of Gods unfolds at its center, for example, is a conflict between (2) and (3). It's a curious and engrossing effect and perhaps the only one of its kind.

I get that intuitively folks tend to want their hero especially free of moral ambiguity in a show made for children, but Toriyama's not in the least interested in moralizing to his audience -- only in developing the character naturally and plausibly out of his basic traits and having everyone else respond according to their own personalities per the author's own artistic intuitions. I'd much rather this than if he were to -- say, by offing Goku -- contrivedly superimpose some banal (karmic?) moral justice system on a creative universe that does not warrant it. If Goku winds up learning his lesson by the end of this arc, great, because that's plausible and follows organically from his current trajectory. But I don't need to see him punished by the end of it.

I'll agree with the thread title, however, if only because it's true Goku's probably the most routinely mischaracterized of Super's characters.
Last edited by Faustus on Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by Nekis13 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:12 pm

Faustus wrote:If Goku winds up learning his lesson by the end of this arc, great, because that's plausible and follows organically from his current trajectory. But I don't need to see him punished by the end of it.
Pretty much this, if Goku has a moment of "Oh shit, I really messed up by reminding Zen'o of the tournament." Most people will be happy.
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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by Sodhi » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:13 pm

I like Goku, so I don't think he is the worst character in the show. That award for me goes to kid Buu. He basically had no character or anything interesting about him. Goku is a pretty interesting person.

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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by HeroR » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:18 pm

Faustus wrote:This is quite a facile reading of the character. As many have often pointed out, the genius of Goku is that while he does not have a trace of malice in his heart his purity is not a moral purity and does not entail righteousness; and by the same token even as his ever escalating obsessions lead him incidentally to gamble with others' safety increasingly as the series goes on he continues all the while (and just as incidentally) to improve the world around him, converting deadly rivals into allies. Thus the same basic cocktail of traits -- his essential innocence and his wuxia drive -- simultaneously proves both his virtue and his vice. It's a curious and engrossing effect and perhaps the only one of its kind.

I get that intuitively folks tend to want their hero especially free of moral ambiguity in a show made for children, but Toriyama's not interested in moralizing to his audience -- only in developing the character naturally and plausibly out of his basic traits and having everyone else respond according to their own personalities per the author's own artistic intuitions. I'd much rather this than if he were to -- say, by offing Goku -- contrivedly superimpose some banal (karmic?) moral justice system on a creative universe that does not warrant it. If Goku winds up learning his lesson by the end of this arc, great, because that's plausible and follows organically from his current trajectory. But I don't need to see him punished by the end of it.

I'll agree with the thread title, however, if only because it's true Goku's probably the most routinely mischaracterized of Super's characters.
Actually, going by the show, Goku is righteous otherwise he wouldn't have become a Super Saiyan God. Of course, what is 'righteous' for a Saiyan, may not be the same righteousness we humans think of.

This is the same culturally. For example, Superman is considered a righteous person since he fights for the good and refuses to kill because he values life, even the lives the most evil person. However, in a lot of societies, especially older ones, Superman isn't seen as righteous. He is seen as irresponsible since his refusal to kill indirectly leads to more deaths. like the arguments you see about why Batman won't kill the Joker. For their society, the right thing to do is to kill the highly dangerous person for the greater good, despite your own personality morality. If you don't, you're being selfish.

Avatar: The Last Airbender actually tackled this subject in a very mature and realistic way when Aang agonized about not wanting to kill the Fire Lord. One one hand, it was morally alright for Aang to value the life of everyone, even the Fire Lord, and didn't want to kill him. At the same time, as the Avatar, it was his sacred duty to restore balance and not killing a highly dangerous and sociopathic person was seen as Aang putting his own moral code ahead of everyone. Basically, both sides of the argument was righteous for different reasons.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by omaro34 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:19 pm

I've seen these threads plenty of times before. Sure, Goku is annoying, but he's the main guy and that's never going to change.
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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Post by IGhostUlt » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:22 pm

How many threads are we gonna have about this? Is this really gonna affect your lives or something?

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