No unfortunately you have it wrong.Meshack wrote:Why is there an issue that a human is stronger than a Hakaishin? You know this isna fictional world where Toriyama can have the characters as strong as they are the way he wants them to write? We don’t know what Jiren has gone through to get to the level he is at. He meditates a lot and that is probably the way he gets most of his training from. Maybe he does a different kind of meditation. Maybe he does have god ki. Toppo was shown to have god ki in the manga. Maybe Jiren has it too. Jiren is a Pride Trooper so maybe he fights stronger opponents and gets stronger than that. You’re logic is that Jiren shouldn’t be so strong because of his peers but Gokuh and Vegeta are more powerful than the other members of the Dragon Team. NO WAY they can be as strong as they are because the others are not as strong! Gokuh’s power make no sense because Gohan is not as strong as Gokuh. Kamesennin is the weakest of them all but Vegeta can’t be as strong as he is because Kamesennin is not as strong... See... your logic is flawed. The difference between Gokuh and Jiren is that we’ve seen Gokuh’s struggle to get as strong as he is, not JirenI’m not reading the essays but Mikado, you have the wrong idea of Manga Gokuh and Manga Toppo. Toppo said Gokuh was off-guard so he was able to counter. He also said if he wasn’t able to, he wouldn’t have know if he would be able to beat him. Toppo and Gokuh are around the same power. We just don’t know who’s stronger than other.
In the manga Goku's stronger form is CSSB which is the state he fights Toppo in.
In the anime Goku fights in SSBxKK and are around equal, yet we know for a fact Goku can turn it up to SSBxKKx10 at will.
Thus in the manga Goku is around Toppo's level of power AT HIS MAX.
In the anime Toppo is around a FRACTION of Goku's full power that we are aware of at the time. That's the difference.
Basically in the anime we have zero idea where they are relative to each other's max strength because neither showed it.
Goku could be several times stronger than Toppo as SSBxKKx10 or Toppo could be 100x stronger. Which means Jiren would need to be several times stronger than that.
We have no idea how strong anyone else because that's the trend of the anime. Its ambiguous. The easiest way to interpret the anime scene is that Toppo is outclassed by SSBxKK which is only a fraction of Goku's know full power, but we have no idea what's true or not.
In the manga we know for a fact Goku is around Toppo's level at his strongest in his strongest form.