Will Gohan reach a new level?

[SsjCookie]

Okay, we all know that Gohan is no longer the badass fighter he used to be, but is there still some sort of transformation possible for him in this tournament?

His family is at stake here so I would like to think he will give it all at some point into this fight.
You can see that Gohan has a certain passiveness when it comes to fighting, almost the exact opposite of his father I would say.
If he gets pushed so far, what kind of transformation would be possible for him?

Will he be as strong as Goku and Vegeta?
Will he be on F Trunks level or above?
Or will he be without transformation?

Gohan has failed to impress me so far, so I hope he'll man up at some point and show the audience what he's made of.

[sintzu]

I don't think anyone will now but he should at some point.

[precita]

He will be the first to go Super Saiyan Rainbow. Or Gohan blanco shall become canon.

[namekiansaiyan]

Every fighter should reach a new level. Not giving any character a increase is bad for the franchuse to me and it keeps variety going.

[Puaru]

He damn well better.

Gohan is DBS is weaker than he has been since probably the Freeza saga way back in Z.

And Before you correct me, here is what I mean: Gohan in DBS is weak in COMPARASION to the currently strongest characters. Meanwhile, in the Cell and Majin Boo saga Gohan was always portrayed as either the strongest, one of the strongest, or having the potential to be the strongest warrior. This power and/or potential for power was a key ingredient in his role in the series.

Nowadys in DBS, the idea that he could be among the very top in the power ranking is never brought up. Nobody expects him to be, neither other characters in the show or the audience (well some people in the audience do, but that has more to do with a wish for his role in the series to return to that in Z and not because the actual DBS series really suggests such a development).

Basically, Gohan's role in the franchise has gone from being "potentially strongest of all" to "sorta strong character but not top-tier". That's a hell of a downgrade.

And yes, I get that ever since BoG the whole idea of ANY Z fighter being the strongest being in the universe has sorta been replaced by having all these deities always being one or several pegs above the Z fighters. Not even Goku seems to have a chance of ever surprassing Zeno. But what really bugs me about Gohan is that he isn't even portrayed as a top-tier among the Z fighters anymore. Goku and Vegeta are leages above him and the show offers nothing to suggest that this is about to change. And this damages Gohan's character because it ruins a large part of the function he used to fill in the franchise from a narrative and thematic point of view. Gohan never had a great deal of personality, instead it was the theme of him having the potential to become the strongest hero (and the conflict between this fact and his friendly and non-violent personality) that made the character an interesting part of the story. With Gohan instead being confined to a "meh" character in terms of power and potential, in ruins what made the character interesting.

[SirTorra]

He hasn't earned it yet. If he were to pick up on his training then yea. But as of now hes done 0 things to earn it. If he was in u6 than maybe but hes in U7 so no, not yet.

[namekiansaiyan]

He hasn't earned it yet. If he were to pick up on his training then yea. But as of now hes done 0 things to earn it. If he was in u6 than maybe but hes in U7 so no, not yet.

He always gets undeserved power ups so what is different if he got one here.

[MisteryOne]

He damn well better.

Gohan is DBS is weaker than he has been since probably the Freeza saga way back in Z.

And Before you correct me, here is what I mean: Gohan in DBS is weak in COMPARASION to the currently strongest characters. Meanwhile, in the Cell and Majin Boo saga Gohan was always portrayed as either the strongest, one of the strongest, or having the potential to be the strongest warrior. This power and/or potential for power was a key ingredient in his role in the series.

Nowadys in DBS, the idea that he could be among the very top in the power ranking is never brought up. Nobody expects him to be, neither other characters in the show or the audience (well some people in the audience do, but that has more to do with a wish for his role in the series to return to that in Z and not because the actual DBS series really suggests such a development).

Basically, Gohan's role in the franchise has gone from being "potentially strongest of all" to "sorta strong character but not top-tier". That's a hell of a downgrade.

And yes, I get that ever since BoG the whole idea of ANY Z fighter being the strongest being in the universe has sorta been replaced by having all these deities always being one or several pegs above the Z fighters. Not even Goku seems to have a chance of ever surprassing Zeno. But what really bugs me about Gohan is that he isn't even portrayed as a top-tier among the Z fighters anymore. Goku and Vegeta are leages above him and the show offers nothing to suggest that this is about to change. And this damages Gohan's character because it ruins a large part of the function he used to fill in the franchise from a narrative and thematic point of view. Gohan never had a great deal of personality, instead it was the theme of him having the potential to become the strongest hero (and the conflict between this fact and his friendly and non-violent personality) that made the character an interesting part of the story. With Gohan instead being confined to a "meh" character in terms of power and potential, in ruins what made the character interesting.

Vegeta pointed out twice that Gohan has the more potential of all the saiyans in the manga. He's the one that suggested him for the two tournaments.

[Bullza]

Isn't he already stronger now than he's ever been?

For all this talk about how they ruined Gohan after the Buu saga by weakening him, it doesn't make that much sense. What exactly did he even do as Ultimate Gohan in the Buu saga? Diddly squat. He beat around Super Buu for about 6 pages and then proceeded to get beaten around by Gotenks Buu.

His peak was worth absolutely nothing.

He's been treated better in this Tournament than he ever was in the Buu saga, that's for damn sure.

[Lionel]

I'm vehemently against the introduction of new transformations. A good alternative would be reincorporating the Kaioken in a more long-term progressively significant manner and allowing other characters to use it. None of that will actually happen, of course. It doesn't suggest that Gohan will be the benefactor of the transformation either. Nothing seems to indicate that the resolve he regained this arc will carry on over into the future. The safe presumption would be "no", it won't. I seriously question Toriyama's ability to commit to the development and progress of Gohan when he's been undermined for so long now.

[Whatever]

I'm vehemently against the introduction of new transformations. A good alternative would be reincorporating the Kaioken in a more long-term progressively significant manner and allowing other characters to use it. None of that will actually happen, of course. It doesn't suggest that Gohan will be the benefactor of the transformation either. Nothing seems to indicate that the resolve he regained this arc will carry on over into the future. The safe presumption would be "no", it won't. I seriously question Toriyama's ability to commit to the development and progress of Gohan when he's been undermined for so long now.

Out of curiosity why are you so adamant against new transformations yet you keep suggesting Kaioken which does the same thing a transformation does and even looks like one?

[GodVegetto91]

I'm vehemently against the introduction of new transformations. A good alternative would be reincorporating the Kaioken in a more long-term progressively significant manner and allowing other characters to use it. None of that will actually happen, of course. It doesn't suggest that Gohan will be the benefactor of the transformation either. Nothing seems to indicate that the resolve he regained this arc will carry on over into the future. The safe presumption would be "no", it won't. I seriously question Toriyama's ability to commit to the development and progress of Gohan when he's been undermined for so long now.

Out of curiosity why are you so adamant against new transformations yet you keep suggesting Kaioken which does the same thing a transformation does and even looks like one?

Kaioken is simply a technique that multiplies your current power/form you’re in. Yes it does alter the users appearance a bit by adding in a new reddish aura, but that’s all there is to it. If SSJ Blue were to be the absolute pinnacle of a Saiyan, then naturally, Kaioken is the only way to go. Though now we have Ultra Instinct, which is my favorite form. However i do NOT want there to be another transformation above it, i want it to be the absolute pinnacle of the Saiyan race, at least until Goku eventually reaches something like an “Omni Super Saiyan” state or something similair with powers on par with the Omni-King.

[Lionel]

I'm vehemently against the introduction of new transformations. A good alternative would be reincorporating the Kaioken in a more long-term progressively significant manner and allowing other characters to use it. None of that will actually happen, of course. It doesn't suggest that Gohan will be the benefactor of the transformation either. Nothing seems to indicate that the resolve he regained this arc will carry on over into the future. The safe presumption would be "no", it won't. I seriously question Toriyama's ability to commit to the development and progress of Gohan when he's been undermined for so long now.

Out of curiosity why are you so adamant against new transformations yet you keep suggesting Kaioken which does the same thing a transformation does and even looks like one?

The Kaioken has its own unique background as the brainchild of a purported martial arts master in the afterlife. It was introduced as this conceivably effective yet detrimental ability that comes with a good sum of pros and cons. Some of the transformations introduced later on are similar in their cost-per-benefit ratio method, but those tend to be in the minority and oftentimes they're weeded out. I would like to see the same done for the Kaioken, but primarily because it's still a largely unexplored ability with a good amount of potential use that's mishandled or not handled at all.

Kaioken has the allure of being a technique that's achievable to anyone with the right aptitude and control. Transformations are almost exclusively genetic based with a certain species being able to access them. They've been put at the forefront of principal plot devices, taken advantage of and exploited, even by those who may seem undeserving of their rewards. It becomes desensitising to watch after awhile. Plus, it doesn't help that the writer feels the need to continually reassert the exclusivity of this or that character's power thanks to their species relation. What makes the Kaioken so appealing is basically the same idea people propose when it comes to Gohan to training so he can earn his power. It's a conceptually learnt skill that anyone can pick up on. It's not tethered to any particular species or their biological advantages.

[Dragon Ball Gus]

I'm still hoping for Gohan to achieve Super Saiyan Rage.

[Whatever]

The Kaioken has its own unique background as the brainchild of a purported martial arts master in the afterlife. It was introduced as this conceivably effective yet detrimental ability that comes with a good sum of pros and cons. Some of the transformations introduced later on are similar in their cost-per-benefit ratio method, but those tend to be in the minority and oftentimes they're weeded out. I would like to see the same done for the Kaioken, but primarily because it's still a largely unexplored ability with a good amount of potential use that's mishandled or not handled at all.

Kaioken has the allure of being a technique that's achievable to anyone with the right aptitude and control. Transformations are almost exclusively genetic based with a certain species being able to access them. They've been put at the forefront of principal plot devices, taken advantage of and exploited, even by those who may seem undeserving of their rewards. It becomes desensitising to watch after awhile. Plus, it doesn't help that the writer feels the need to continually reassert the exclusivity of this or that character's power thanks to their species relation. What makes the Kaioken so appealing is basically the same idea people propose when it comes to Gohan to training so he can earn his power. It's a conceptually learnt skill that anyone can pick up on. It's not tethered to any particular species or their biological advantages.

The kaioken runs into the same problems you seem to have with tranformations though.
The cost per benefit ratio becomes less and less important and prevalent the more it is used,thats what happened in the Freeza saga as well when Goku at one point could barely handle Kaioken times 3 yet 1 month later could easily use times 10.
Now we have reached the point that all the main cast could run Kaiokenx20 without much of a downside if they decided to learn it.

It is also can be used as plot device and exploited just as easily as the tranformations,what was once presented as times4 being the limit is times20 is the next,as soon as the concept of Kaioken becomes a main source of power up what is stopping from going Kaiokenx30,x40,x50 e.t.c and if i recall correctly that already happened in the Lord Slug movie.Also even if they are used as plot devices most transformations can be attained by working hard.

If say all races had transformations exclusive to them(instead of just a few races having them),wouldn't that serve the same purpose and have the same result as having them all learn Kaioken does?
If anything in that case it would be better as every character would have a path to power exclusive to them instead of recycling the theme of Kaioken for all characters.

[Lionel]

The Kaioken has its own unique background as the brainchild of a purported martial arts master in the afterlife. It was introduced as this conceivably effective yet detrimental ability that comes with a good sum of pros and cons. Some of the transformations introduced later on are similar in their cost-per-benefit ratio method, but those tend to be in the minority and oftentimes they're weeded out. I would like to see the same done for the Kaioken, but primarily because it's still a largely unexplored ability with a good amount of potential use that's mishandled or not handled at all.

Kaioken has the allure of being a technique that's achievable to anyone with the right aptitude and control. Transformations are almost exclusively genetic based with a certain species being able to access them. They've been put at the forefront of principal plot devices, taken advantage of and exploited, even by those who may seem undeserving of their rewards. It becomes desensitising to watch after awhile. Plus, it doesn't help that the writer feels the need to continually reassert the exclusivity of this or that character's power thanks to their species relation. What makes the Kaioken so appealing is basically the same idea people propose when it comes to Gohan to training so he can earn his power. It's a conceptually learnt skill that anyone can pick up on. It's not tethered to any particular species or their biological advantages.

The kaioken runs into the same problems you seem to have with tranformations though.
The cost per benefit ratio becomes less and less important and prevalent the more it is used,thats what happened in the Freeza saga as well when Goku at one point could barely handle Kaioken times 3 yet 1 month later could easily use times 10.
Now we have reached the point that all the main cast could run Kaiokenx20 without much of a downside if they decided to learn it.

It is also can be used as plot device and exploited just as easily as the tranformations,what was once presented as times4 being the limit is times20 is the next,as soon as the concept of Kaioken becomes a main source of power up what is stopping from going Kaiokenx30,x40,x50 e.t.c and if i recall correctly that already happened in the Lord Slug movie.Also even if they are used as plot devices most transformations can be attained by working hard.

If say all races had transformations exclusive to them(instead of just a few races having them),wouldn't that serve the same purpose and have the same result as having them all learn Kaioken does?
If anything in that case it would be better as every character would have a path to power exclusive to them instead of recycling the theme of Kaioken for all characters.

The higher degrees of Kaioken, for the limited amount of time in which they were focused on, still carried with them a very real and tangible negative impact to the user. Transformations outside of Super Saiyan 3 and the manga's rendition of blue to a lesser degree don't share in that level of severity, though the expenditure is there. If you compare and contrast the ability to use Kaioken x20 versus SSJ3 or blue, you would notice a large discrepancy in the degree and duration of tolerance for the transformations against Kaioken's highest canonical multiplier. Sure, new multipliers could be achieved and acclimated to, but the highest levels would still very likely carry that same cost. Super Saiyan 3 and now blue have been usurped by other more efficient forms. Kaioken, being what it is, a potentially improving ability that will likely always carry a huge cost when harnessing its maximum output.

I was under the impression that transformations were supposed to be a relatively rare type of power amplification. The only other beings to have canonical transformations outside of the Saiyans are Freeza and Zarbon (not counting Cell or Buu's artificial forms). Besides that, you have how many different characters with transformations now? The Kaioken doesn't even get recognition outside of Goku using it and who knows when the next opportunity will arise for him to use it since he should be getting the hand of Ultra Instinct in the near future. Giving the Kaioken to someone like Gohan or Piccolo would hardly be matching the degree of desensitising repetitiousness as transformations.

[Benedetto12]

He said he wants to reach Goku and Vegeta´s height withouth using any SS form, just relying on his ultimate form, so I think the only reasonable power-up then is to infuse the Ultimate Form with Godly Ki, we already know that God Ki can be reached without the ritual (Just like Vegeta did) this would put him really close to Goku, Vegeta and Frieza and above 17 in terms of strenght, and is not a huge asspull like SS Rage

[Dragon Ball Gus]

He said he wants to reach Goku and Vegeta´s height withouth using any SS form, just relying on his ultimate form, so I think the only reasonable power-up then is to infuse the Ultimate Form with Godly Ki, we already know that God Ki can be reached without the ritual (Just like Vegeta did) this would put him really close to Goku, Vegeta and Frieza and above 17 in terms of strenght, and is not a huge asspull like SS Rage

While that would be cool, I'd rather have Gohan actually achieve Super Saiyan Rage, because as we all know, Gohan is known for his rage boosts.

[BlueVegerot]

Okay, we all know that Gohan is no longer the badass fighter he used to be, but is there still some sort of transformation possible for him in this tournament?

His family is at stake here so I would like to think he will give it all at some point into this fight.
You can see that Gohan has a certain passiveness when it comes to fighting, almost the exact opposite of his father I would say.
If he gets pushed so far, what kind of transformation would be possible for him?

Will he be as strong as Goku and Vegeta?
Will he be on F Trunks level or above?
Or will he be without transformation?

Gohan has failed to impress me so far, so I hope he'll man up at some point and show the audience what he's made of.

the3 u6 saiyans and goku have all gotten new forms/powerups in the tournament of powerup. Might as well give gohan one and vegeta

[namekiansaiyan]

He might reach a new level but Golu will still get the glory and he would probably lose this new level by the next arc.