Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[AnimeNation101]

Its funny because Toriyama said he loved the Bardock special but now here we are, in a day where he’s changed it for the worse and now its in our first dbs movie. And i have yet to see Yamoshi (but thats just by complaint).

He didn't change anything for the worse, he showed how things actually happened.

More like he showed his version of the original story. So while you’re right, you can also see it as him changing the original Bardock story for, IMO, the worse, because DBM is levels below the Bardock special.

[jeffbr92]

I'm worn out about Saiyans and Freeza all over again, can't we just have a namekian centered movie? lol

Its funny because Toriyama said he loved the Bardock special but now here we are, in a day where he’s changed it for the worse and now its in our first dbs movie. And i have yet to see Yamoshi (but thats just by complaint).

If he loved, he didn't had to destroy it.

Exactly my point. He should have just left the story alone. And it contracts Dragon ball because Grandpa Gohan finds Goku as a baby with no saiyan armor on. The DBMinus Goku looks like a toddler who recognizes his parents and has a suit on while he’s in the space pod. The only good thing that comes of DBMinus is Gine.

Yes, it's terrible that he retconned Goku to be another Superman

[samuraix123]

Where's the Pantera soundtrack at Funi??? I'm kidding I'm kidding...Get around ya'll lol I will admit when I heard we was getting a new Broly movie I was like ugh...not again. but I'll give this a fair shake. it doesn't look bad at all really.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

More like he showed his version of the original story. So while you’re right, you can also see it as him changing the original Bardock story for, IMO, the worse, because DBM is levels below the Bardock special.

How can you change a backstory that never existed in manga in the first place?

[Cursemark505]

Its funny because Toriyama said he loved the Bardock special but now here we are, in a day where he’s changed it for the worse and now its in our first dbs movie. And i have yet to see Yamoshi (but thats just by complaint).

If he loved, he didn't had to destroy it.

Exactly my point. He should have just left the story alone. And it contracts Dragon ball because Grandpa Gohan finds Goku as a baby with no saiyan armor on. The DBMinus Goku looks like a toddler who recognizes his parents and has a suit on while he’s in the space pod. The only good thing that comes of DBMinus is Gine.

Have we ever officially seen Gohan finding Goku? The only thing that comes up with what you're talking about is anime only. From what I remember there wasn't anything contradicting Minus in the manga.

[LightBing]

People don't hate Minus just because it contradicts the TV Special, there are plenty of reasons more than that

Being undeveloped hurts Minus but it's supposed to be that way since it's a small special chapter. I don't think that's fair criticism.

Making Goku too special is incredibly bias. Because either in Minus or Bardock's movie he's already special. Special for having caring parents in a society where that's rare and special for somehow getting sent right before Freeza destroyed Planet Vegeta and being one of the few Saiyans to survive in space-faring race.
That's just being picky, Goku's is unique in whatever version. It's not a valid criticism.

I'm not familiar with Superman but I can see why it would be a turn-off if it's similar.

I'm not saying Minus is something great, just that the criticism is completely disproportional and somewhat like the post you linked based more on emotion than reflection. It has problems, it has good points same as Bardock's special.

[sunsetshimmer]

Just this post about how bad the trailer is on its own is fine, but you've been on this and many other threads saying about how garbage Super is. We get it, you don't like Super. That's great that we can have differing opinions and discuss them, but "lol this sucks so much yet people love it lmao" is not constructive, nor does open up any opportunity for civil debate on a forum that's heavily centered in civil debate.

Don't make it sound like i call DBS fans worse because they like DBS.
And i don't think i make posts that have no way to be talked about. I didn't write "It's awful", i said what i didn't like.
I also said that teaser looked good.
I was just expecting more because teaser looked better. But here it doesn't look good to me.
And i know it's also a different artstyle. I don't like how Digimon movies look even though i like series.
I didn't mind Battle of Gods and Ressurection 'F' in terms of artstyle.

In this case, I actually agree that the animation looks bad, it seems off, and the color is jarring compared to normal Dragon Ball, but I'm not saying repeatedly how I hate it and I say it constructively.

But i said it only once. People just kept responding to me. so it went further.
I don't think animation look bad, i like it, just artsyle. One shot of Frieza is drawn especially bad and looks like it was took from RoF saga of DBS.

Actually I would! Z is by far the most overrated of the 4 series, and I find the Cell and Boo Arcs hard to sit through at some points. Imo OG Dragon Ball is the best out of the 4.

Good to know then. I agree with you here. But most people wouldn't.

I will, and I have about some topics, but if you repeat the same exact points in a different day repeatedly then there's no point in repeating the same discussion. Also I don't repeatedly praise Super, I only have 3 out of 5 Arcs as passable.

I didn't mean you, just people overall. Talking about how great certain DBS episode was isn't any different than talking about how bad it was.

I didn't say that you loved the super 17 Arc, I was giving an example of you using 1 arc that you didn't like to make Super seem even worse.

Well i also use Garlic Jr saga. And i use them not because i want to show that "lol even GT was better than Super lmao", but because those two arcs are very often considered really bad arcs in DB. Also, Ressurection 'F' from Super joined them although except trash animation i enjoyed this arc more than ToP.

I LOVE PATH TO POWER!

But I generally think the DB/DBZ movies were pretty bad. I think there's so much room for improvement upon M8 and there's just so damn much untapped potential that it almost feels like it would be hard to screw this up.

Most DBZ movies seemed the same. BoG was different and even though i didn't like it at first i learned to appreciate that movie and actually think it's one of the best DB movies.
Ressurection 'F' was trash though. Sorry. To me it was as bad as Bio-Broly and even though RoF saga in Super was the worst looking arc ever it was overall better and more interesting than movie with addition of Tagoma and few other things. Probably unpopular opinion but yeah, i think:

RoF in DBS > RoF in Movie

And even though i have zero respect for making another Broly movie (it's lazy idea, let's be honest here) i am almost 100% sure i will like this movie more than RoF and Bio-Broly.

Ok it's late, time to sleep.

[jeffbr92]

Have we ever officially seen Gohan finding Goku? The only thing that comes up with what you're talking about is anime only. From what I remember there wasn't anything contracting Minus in the manga.

As there wasn't anything in the TV Special contradicting the manga, so people can choose what they want, until the day Toriyama/Toei finally declares what counts and what does not for DB continuity.

[Kokonoe]

Broly is back and it feels so good. New artwork style completely poops on the Super anime style and I hope they adopt this for the future.

[Scott]

Broly is back and it feels so good. New artwork style completely poops on the Super anime style and I hope they adopt this for the future.

Couldn't agree more. I have mostly tuned out of anything Dragon Ball related over the last year, seeing this trailer bought life back to the franchise for me.

[Helios518]

I don't understand why people are complaining about this. We already knew that Minus is canon, part of the main timeline, Toriyama's vision, or whatever. So, it being animated doesn't change anything.

To avoid repeating myself

I'm not catching what you're trying to conveying. Are you trying to say that because there's no canon, but this scene being here shows that it's in this specific continuity, it's bad?

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

The thing that misled me was that that post was in direct response to her post, which was a direct response to mine. Even then, I apologize for misunderstanding your post.

No problem, m8.

And I agree, as much as I'm getting called a Super fanboy, I can admit that the stories of all but the last two Arcs themselves are garbage.

BOG Arc: Beerus wants to fight a strong guy
ROF Arc: Freeza wants to fight Goku
U6: Beerus and Champa want a tournament for food

I'd give Super a rating of 5/10 as a whole. But, if you dropped the first two movie retelling arcs, it jumps up to a 7/10 for me. Art and animation issues aside, the BOG arc was pretty decent to me and did some things better than the movie in my opinion. But it still had art and animation issues. It is the RoF arc that was and is that bad to me. Considering I liked the RoF movie, that arc was a complete bastardization of it to me in pretty much every way and if I ever decided I wanted to rewatch Super, I'd likely skip that arc entirely.

I have a fond opinion of the Champa arc likely because of how bad its preceding arc was in my opinion. And because of Hit. The Future Trunks arc was the best arc to me from a narrative standpoint, despite its last three episodes being highly questionable to me. While I didn't think the Tournament of Power arc was great from a narrative standpoint, with the exception of the FT arc, it was better than anything we got beforehand.

I'd really like it if this upcoming movie about Broly is completely and entirely different in every way from a composition perspective from the other Broly movies we've seen, but I'm not gonna bet on that. This is Dragon Ball Super, after all.

[Cursemark505]

Have we ever officially seen Gohan finding Goku? The only thing that comes up with what you're talking about is anime only. From what I remember there wasn't anything contracting Minus in the manga.

As there wasn't anything in the TV Special contradicting the manga, so people can choose what they want, until the day Toriyama/Toei finally declares what counts and what does not for DB continuity.

The TV special is just something Toei made up regardless of whether or not it contradicts the manga. Whatever Toriyama writes/agrees to is what counts. He is the creator/God of the DB universe. Toei's just an animation studio that was in charge of adapting the manga into animation. Toriyama was almost completely uninvolved with them. Any original content they made back then is hardly more valid than what a regular fan could conjure up.

[GTx10]

Leave SunSetShiner alone. If he doesn't dig the trailer or certain things then what's it to you? Let's not be blind here, that shot of Son Goku walking towards the camera looks bad. He looks like Luffy, that and when Goku is eating food the movie looks like the Digimon Movie visually. Not a bad thing per say but jarring to say the least.
Also are we sure Yamamuro isn't here because those angry Goku and Vegeta faces look like Movie 8 and that is great! Actually the film really reminds me of the Digimon Movie, I am okay with that.

Christ, lmao. That's it. I'm done.

Alrighty then bye.

Moving on, it is no secret that I enjoy Yamamuro's work but I can certainly say the trailer looks great. Do I like this style? Not totally, but I can say that it is pretty. I don't like the walking toward the camera shot of Son Goku because he looks odd and Luffy-esqe to me.
But take Broly punching SS Vegeta through the ice for example, despite the image merely looping it does look amazing. Hell many of the "angry" faces look like they have been ripped straight from Movie 8. That to me looks great because Movie 8 was superb looking. But Normal Freeza looks "squid" like and unnatural in that "what" pose.
I know many like exaggerated movements because folks think it conveys emotion (it certainly can) but in Freeza's case it looks "jelly-like" and unnatural compared to the (proven to work in certain levels) "stiff," "toy-like" Dragon Ball of modern day that many now disdain. I fear I've gotten off track, let the record stat that I like this trailer and many images from it excite me. However this style isn't my favorite. Also the CGI SSB Son Goku VS Broly looks nice, and consistent with BoG and F.

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

Seeing the shot of the 4 star Dragon Ball falling made me think that this might be another hunt for the Dragon Balls story. That would be cool!

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Leave SunSetShiner alone. If he doesn't dig the trailer or certain things then what's it to you? Let's not be blind here, that shot of Son Goku walking towards the camera looks bad. He looks like Luffy, that and when Goku is eating food the movie looks like the Digimon Movie visually. Not a bad thing per say but jarring to say the least.
Also are we sure Yamamuro isn't here because those angry Goku and Vegeta faces look like Movie 8 and that is great! Actually the film really reminds me of the Digimon Movie, I am okay with that.

Could you show some comparisons? Cause I am not seeing it.

[BlueBasilisk]

With Broly fighting Frieza, I wonder if maybe he and Paragus have been taking over some of the remnants of the Frieza Force and that's how they got that ship and the armor? Those shots of the pods had me wondering too. What if those aren't the past, but Paragus is a scientist creating new Saiyans in the present.

[PFM18]

Seeing the shot of the 4 star Dragon Ball falling made me think that this might be another hunt for the Dragon Balls story. That would be cool!

Yeah what could the falling Dragon Ball have possibly meant?

[Tai Lung]

eh .. that some have become accustomed to the previous dragon ball animations do not mean that this is bad is more appropriate to the movement of the characters and the drawings look good in the approaches that in itself, the only thing that is not see so well is the color, in the rest is a good teaser

what can be subjective or not the 3d effect that not everyone would like, but is not that bad in this case

PS: so far there is nothing more disgusting than the super 17 arc and I say that quite frankly

[Gaffer Tape]

Being undeveloped hurts Minus but it's supposed to be that way since it's a small special chapter. I don't think that's fair criticism.

My "someone's linking to my DB Minus post again" sense was tingling, and, sure enough, I was right!

But, yes. It is a very, very fair criticism. Claiming it is immune from critical analysis because it is a "small special chapter" is an unfair defense. How Goku got the earth, the politics and decisions that led Freeza to destroying the Saiyans, and establishing Bardock and Gine as specific characters are all very complex issues to deal with individually. To try to squeeze all of that into a single chapter is completely asinine. It was a bad decision, and there was absolutely no way that anything good would come out of such a cram job. Anybody could have seen that. That does not give it a pass. If Toriyama really had a passion to tell this story, there is no way someone in his position couldn't have gotten a better medium in which to do it. The publishers would have eaten up the chance to publish a standalone volume of Goku's origins. And unlike Jaco, they wouldn't have had to dance around a Dragon Ball connection. They could have blasted it from every media source that Toriyama himself was doing this. But, no, they or he chose not to. And that was a bad decision. But even if Toriyama simply didn't have the opportunity for any more page space than that, it doesn't change anything. We can sympathize with bad decisions or creative limitations or executive meddling. But at the end of the day, a bad story is a bad story is a bad story, no matter the excuse. The reason does not matter.

On top of that, it doesn't hold any water because, limited as it is, the chapter wastes space like it thinks it has the run time of War and Peace. This chapter has a story to tell? Then why in the world does it waste four whole pages, a third of its entire space, on complete frivolities like Jaco going to earth, Freeza throwing in an out of left field reference to Super Saiyan God, and presenting Raditz as a kid? None of that has anything to do with the core of the story. For a story that has as much to do as this one needed, it is completely self-destructive to meander the way it does. No, it's not interested in telling a story. It's interested in fanservice. Super Saiyan God was the popular new transformation. Make sure it's mentioned. We never got to see Raditz as a kid in the Bardock Special. So while he has absolutely nothing to do with this story, let's waste a third of a page showing him. The fans will eat that stuff up because that's all they care about.

I'm not saying Minus is something great, just that the criticism is completely disproportional and somewhat like the post you linked based more on emotion than reflection. It has problems, it has good points same as Bardock's special.

Well, I wrote that post four years ago. Three years later, I rewrote the entire premise of my argument into a 30-minute-long video. I own Jaco. I've read the chapter. I had to re-read it for said video. And in between those times, I've experienced life, absorbed other media, traveled, basically moved past my initial read of DB Minus. In short, I've had plenty of time to reflect on it. And after all this time... it is still just as bad. If you like it, good for you. Honestly. Glad you enjoy it. I don't mind if you disagree with people's criticisms of it. However, I don't see why you feel the need to defend it to the point of dismissing anyone's criticisms of it as "invalid" just because you don't agree.