General Consensus on Zamasu's character?

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General Consensus on Zamasu's character?

Post by MrEmperorChampa » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:57 am

Hello! Been a long time lurker here long before my account's creation.

Zamasu is undoubtedly one of the most controversial villains of the entire DB franchise with the Future Trunks arc considered to be one of the polarizing arcs by the fandom as well. Many people seem to find interest in his characterization and seeing it unique from the status quo of DB villains being "evil for the sake of evil". He had actual reasons and motives behind his pessimistic views of humanity. On the contrary, others find him to be an edgy hypocritical extremist that tried to be complex, but doesn't have anything to support those said views.

What are your overall opinions on him as a character and a villain? Do you agree with him? Do you disagree with him? What do you think of his motives? Etc.

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Re: General Consensus on Zamasu's character?

Post by supersaiyanZero » Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:02 am

He sucked. They had an awesome idea but executed rather poorly. His ideals and convictions were really rushed and underdeveloped, it would have been so much fun to see him grow as a character. You can argue that he was the most "developed/complex villains" but all fans are talking about when they say this is his lame backstory. Frieza is a much better developed villain (and is one thing Super seems to be able to handle from time to time).

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Re: General Consensus on Zamasu's character?

Post by Torturephile » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:09 am

When the arc first started, I considered Zamasu one of the best villains in the franchise because of his complexity and development, but upon rewatch, I think he should have been explored of more because for someone to become a genocidal maniac, he should have gone through a lot more trouble with mortals in order to justify his decisions. Seems to me he became evil just because of a simple doubt.

Since Black counts as a version of Zamasu, I have to say he is still my favorite character of Super. He made up for Zamasu's flaws by being a twistedly gorgeous jackass.
MrEmperorChampa wrote:Hello! Been a long time lurker here long before my account's creation.

Zamasu is undoubtedly one of the most controversial villains of the entire DB franchise with the Future Trunks arc considered to be one of the polarizing arcs by the fandom as well. Many people seem to find interest in his characterization and seeing it unique from the status quo of DB villains being "evil for the sake of evil". He had actual reasons and motives behind his pessimistic views of humanity. On the contrary, others find him to be an edgy hypocritical extremist that tried to be complex, but doesn't have anything to support those said views.
Pretty much describes it, though the future saga's ending is what it's polarizing as the saga itself, not taking into consideration the ToP as it's not done yet, is still the best received one from Super. Anime Black does get more love simply because of his charisma and dark beauty, and if the number of profile pictures don't lie, he is still very popular.

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Re: General Consensus on Zamasu's character?

Post by JazzMazz » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:27 am

MrEmperorChampa wrote:Hello! Been a long time lurker here long before my account's creation.

Zamasu is undoubtedly one of the most controversial villains of the entire DB franchise with the Future Trunks arc considered to be one of the polarizing arcs by the fandom as well. Many people seem to find interest in his characterization and seeing it unique from the status quo of DB villains being "evil for the sake of evil". He had actual reasons and motives behind his pessimistic views of humanity. On the contrary, others find him to be an edgy hypocritical extremist that tried to be complex, but doesn't have anything to support those said views.

What are your overall opinions on him as a character and a villain? Do you agree with him? Do you disagree with him? What do you think of his motives? Etc.
He was an interesting and decently developed villain and easily stands as one of the best of the franchise. Since technically Zamasu is 4 different characters, I think ranking them would be appropriate.

Black: A villain with strong motivations and idea's, with a fantastic screen presence and personality. I would say his easily the best Zamasu, even though how he actually came into being is confusing.
Present Zamasu: Watching Zamasu's idelogy slowly change to become more aggresive and to line up with Blacks was an interesting journey and his conversations with Gowasu did a fantastic job of fleshing out the character.
Fused Zamasu: He had a fantastic screen presence and a formidable personality, and also did a good job of expounding upon his ideolgy in this form, making him a thoroughly engaging villain.
Future Zamasu: Easily the weakest character of the bunch. He has nowhere near the screen presence of Black, and his idelogical banter has been better presented by Black as well, making him kind of feel like a reductive character. He was the only Zamasu that I found overly obnoxious.

Also, welcome to the Kanzenshuu! :P

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Re: General Consensus on Zamasu's character?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:29 am

I'd like to say first that, overall, on all social medias, Zamasu was received positively by the community. Sure, there are people who preferred Goku Black over Present Zamasu/Future Zamasu/Fused Zamasu, but people enjoyed the introduction of a villain that represented the 'God fallen from grace' archetype.

As for myself, as you can tell from my avatar and signature, i absolutely love this character. He is my favourite character in the entire franchise. Where to start? I enjoy his overall design. My favourite incarnation of Zamasu is Fused Zamasu, whose design and theme reminded me of a Final Fantasy or some RPG's final boss. His techniques were so creative and unique and truly showed his standing as a supreme God who watches over all of existence (just think of the Halo, or Barrier of Light if you will. But also the fact he was hovering above the ruined landscape of Earth for the entirety of ep. 65, as he was God who looked down upon existence and judged it). His motives to me made sense. He had watched over mortals for many years, and he always noticed a pattern: Humans fight each other, they destroy each other, and they do not learn from their mistakes to build a better world. That behaviour, that foolishness to wage war on each other constantly and throw away the gifts granted to them by the Gods was deemed disgusting by Zamasu himself. He also explains that the Earthlings played a big part in the birth of the Zero Mortals Plan, as they dared to enter the sacred domain of the Gods (time) by building a time machine. They broke the holy laws of the Gods, so they had to be punished! Zamasu is the only Supreme Kai, the only GOD who tried to enforce the sacred laws of the Gods upon the lesser mortal creatures. In fact, Zamasu saw himself as the only one willing to defend the Universe from the taint known as mortals. He saw himself as a good guy, as the only one who would do justice. His cry for the salvation of the Universe in ep. 66 says a lot: he truly believes that his actions, while radical, are meant to build a better Universe. Just like Goku and his friends, Zamasu wanted to restore peace to the Universe. But he did so in a different way.

Zamasu's character arc was superb, honestly. His initial calm state broken by the humiliation suffered at the hands of Goku, the pleasure felt in slaughtering a lowly Babarian. His desire to switch bodies with Son Goku, who represents the flaws of the Gods and the insolence of mortals. The beginning of the Zero Mortals Plan, which endgame was to purge the entire Multiverse of all mortals and usher in the dawn of an utopian world created solely for the Gods, with Zamasu at the top. And, of course, his slow descent into madness. Ironic, that he ultimately became the same thing he swore to destroy: a primitive and bloodthirsty barbarian.

Zamasu was the most succesful villain in all of Dragon Ball. He -DEFEATED- Goku and his friends. He merged with the fabric of the Multiverse and became the very ideals of 'Justice' and 'Order'. His immense power transcended the boundaries of time and space. It took the Omni-king himself to finally put an end to this entity. And even then, Zamasu technically won, as now all mortal life in the Future timeline has been erased, just as the Zero Mortals Plan dictated. Zamasu lost a battle (he was erased) but won the war (he completed the Zero Mortals Plan thanks to Zen-Oh). Trunks, -FAILED- to protect his timeline.

Indeed, we can still see the lasting effects of the Zero Mortals Plan to this day, as we now have two Omni-kings in the same timeline as a result of Zamasu's actions.

Also, i would just like to aknowledge that Shin-ichiro Miki's voice acting was simply superb. His initial calm and soothing tone, his frustrated and desperated voice, as Zamasu's personality started to fall into madness and crack. I've seen only praise for Zamasu's Japanese voice actor, and rightfully so!

You can also tell a large part of the community likes Zamasu and that he has left an impact on the fandom by the sheer amount of memes that have been created from this character (Ningen! Subarashii! etc...). Memes do indicate the popularity of a certain character.

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Re: General Consensus on Zamasu's character?

Post by Lionel » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:57 pm

Agree with SupremeKai25. Zamasu's crusader ambition to cleanse the multiverse of the failure that is ningen did speak to a character who is more nuanced than your average run-of-the-mill comical brute. Contrary to the established rouge's gallery, his background had instilled into him a set of principles based on what was right and what was wrong. His background as a Kaioshin in practice had helped to facilitate a construction of his worldview, including everything that it entailed like the development of life throughout the universe, their activities, interactions amongst the creations, and eventual destruction at the hands of one another or nature itself. There must have been a significant plethora of unrest, conflict, and exploitation for Zamasu's heart to become hardened in the manner that it did. I think Gowasu couldn't exactly address what it is that was troubling his apprentice concerning this perversely cyclical routine of new species forming and developing overtime only to eventually get killed at the hands of each other or subjugate other species for their personal benefit with no end in sight while Kaioshin do nothing but fruitlessly observe this sickening pattern. The Hakaishin are shown to not feel beholdened towards any group or person except themselves and whatever is able to provide some kind of benefit to them. They arbitrarily destroy worlds based primarily on whims with no introspective analysis of the world or its population to help justify why it's being annihilated. In that respect, Gowasu's pronouncement about entrusting the proaction of physically impacting the world to the Hakaishin sounds a bit misguided.

Like others have stated, I wish more could have been done to properly explore Zamasu's characterisation prior to his fall from grace. I wanted to see more dimension to his belief system by having him become exposed to conflicting alternative species who have in fact managed to develop into a relatively peaceful functioning society. Allow him to come to recognise the variousness of species and have him question the absolution of his intent to eliminate ningen. Furthermore, his plan should have been elaborated on a bit more by exploring the celestial ramifications of his crusade. What becomes of the lesser deities who only serve as observers? Does the adjudicator of souls continue to hold his position? What of the ningen souls themselves? Would Zamasu have tolerated their continued ascension into the afterlife? Our only sane glimpse into his mindset surrounding these functionary deities was with Zuno. We all know how that turned out. Zamasu was overly aggressive, threatening, and ruthless with not even a modicum of decency or respect shown, despite paying attendance to an ancient mythological wise man of the multiverse. I didn't like that -- neither did I care for his ear to ear gleeful sadist's smile the moment Gowasu was killed. The act of killing itself should have been the polar opposite of satisfaction or pleasure for him. For Zamasu, it should have been a sobering unpleasant affair that he sought to complete quickly and with as little violence as possible; his heart and mind appreciating the consequence and comprehending the endless rivers of blood that are flowing from his hands.

As for Zamasu's hasty shift from wayward apprentice to sadistic renegade, I would have preferred more of an openly hostile initial relationship between him and Black. You could better rationalise Black's demeanour as the product of the inherently violent instincts of the Saiyan body intensifying the aggressiveness of Zamasu's methods of execution. Perhaps instead of them instantly hitting it off, Toei and/or Toriyama could have chosen to flesh out the affection Zamasu did have for his mentor by showing grief over his murder and resentment towards Black for what he's done. It would eventually progress into a grudging realisation that he needs to put his plan into action since he technically would be the acting Kaioshin now; maybe Black informs him of this and after several truculent stand-offs Zamasu decides to put his feelings aside for the good of his philosophy. I'm not sure if this conception of Zamasu would have ever formed a brotherly attachment to Black. The two of them would have diverged too much from one another thanks to the differing bodies and backgrounds. Their relationship would be cooperative but standoffish at best, in my opinion; with Zamasu having more of a conscience in his conduct while Black is the sadistic savage who enjoys what he's doing.

More could have been done to flesh out the grievances Zamasu had with the universe's status quo. I think him having a deity supremacist attitude would still be there but a good amount of it would be rooted in the idea that gods, being who they are as overseers of the universe, should naturally be at the top of the hierarchy. Allowing for ningen to come into possession of their power and tools opens a doorway for possible perverse exploitation of these devices and could corrupt them for self-centred and even nefarious purposes. Except for the Makaioshin who are already quarantined in the darker realm, the deities are generally in a more stable and objective position to pass judgement down on the ningen. I think that's how Zamasu should have gone about rationalising his supremacist mindset. Although having his personal pride at stake during the bout with Goku doesn't sound unreasonable either. I wouldn't want him devolving into a murder obsessed animal when it comes to the Saiyan, though. Frustration and contempt for the short-sighted ignorance of the Saiyans for not appreciating the corruption and hypocrisy of the world system they're trying to protect would make for a good source of grievance instead. However, the bit with Zamasu believing that he's shouldering the sins of humanity by merging his flesh with that of a ningen's was evocative and should stay, in my opinion.

Zamasu's confliction after merging with Black should have amplified multifold. I'm not sure what his personality would have been at this point in time but I would hope that ultimately after having been struck down, instead of obliterating everything and becoming a macabre essence, he still retains enough of his mind to only destroy the ningen whom he has deemed unsavable. Naturally this would include the Saiyans who have done everything to oppose his ambition.

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Re: General Consensus on Zamasu's character?

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:58 pm

I've given my two cents on the character as a whole in the past, and nothing about it has changed:
[spoiler]People often complain that Zamasu had no real backstory, but I disagree with that. While he was shown to be a Kaioshin, Zamasu cared greatly enough for the development and prosperity of the universe, that Zamasu often questioned the worth of mortals and didn't believe in their ability to handle conflict as they were prone to commence war in a repeated cycle. And given the events that transpired in the main story, he has a very valid point. The Kaioshin of Universe 7 stood by and watched Freeza terrorize most of the galaxy for God knows how long before Goku and Future Trunks took care of him. It's made even worse by the fact the Kaioshin were strong enough to defeat Freeza with one blow, but they still stood by and did nothing. Then you take into consideration that the events of the Android/Cell arc and the Majin Boo arc happened on purely through the arrogance and selfishness of the main cast. He also did not agree with how the Kaioshin would not be more directly involved in mortals' actions like the Gods of Destruction, and scoffs at the idea that mortals can be trusted to handle important matters, let alone rival the might of gods.

The moment with him and Gowasu travelling to the Babarians world was a huge turning point in his character. Because if he ever needed more fuel to add to his argument of how dangerous and unruly mortals could be, that was it. Zamasu claimed that they should destroy the planet because they will never learn to be civilized, to which Gowasu is shocked by this response and in an attempt to prove him wrong, Gowasu and Zamasu travel 1000 years to the future, only to find out that the civilization has not advanced from the small culture it originally was, and the race as whole still remained hostile, angry and aggressive race, as the same two of the Babarians are seen fighting. And just to add the cherry on top, one of the Babarians tries to attack Zamasu and Gowasu at first glance. But what made scene all the more poignant was the look of shock on Zamasu face after he cut the Babarian in half. He didn't evilly grin and manically laugh like a person that would be jumping down the route of evil would. He was just seemed more taken aback that his natural instinct would lead him to do such a thing, even in the extreme circumstance. It's those little details that may not seem to matter but they really do so much for the perspective of his character and story. Zamasu may have resented mortals and may have been very judgmental of their worth in the grand scope of the universe, but the concept of actually killing them with his own hands was still a foreign idea to him.

Meeting Goku was where his character officially went off the deep end. After meeting Goku however and losing to him quickly in a sparring match, his views radically changed and his distrustful nature towards mortals only grew. Annoyed at Goku's carefree attitude and lack of respect, his distaste for the Gods not quelling the dangerous nature of mortals evolved from petty resentment and judgement to a full blown radicalism against all who are not Gods. Shocked at how a mortal like Goku could gain a power rivaling gods, let alone even obtaining such power in the first place, and so recklessly and cavalierly challenging a God, and to defeat him easily, Zamasu came to sternly believe that mortal life by nature is an chaotic and evil and must be dealt with swiftly for the betterment of the universe.

Goku Black and Future Zamasu is the embodiment of Zamasu basically giving into the his dark side and goes through with his plan to be a more active Kaioshin and try set right what he thinks has been done wrong by other Kiaoshin standing back and letting mortal create all kinds of havoc. He is extremely sadistic, as well as savage in battle and also relishes the opportunity to test his new power or abilities, but also shown to be very pragmatic is his way of achieving his Zero Mortals Plan, never lost his composure when things didn't go his way, was also so formal with his speech pattern, and never wasted an opportunity to display his superiority complex and his plan to create a utopia by eliminating all mortals. And he never wasted an opportunity to display his superiority complex and his fixation on beauty. But what was so unique Goku Black was that, despite his appearance, he wasn't necessarily "Evil Goku" to even begin with. Goku Black was his own unique character with his own wonderful quirks.

Merged Zamasu is basically the accumulation of all the arrogance and self-entitlement of Goku Black and Future Zamasu. He literally sees himself as the embodiment of justice and having delusions of grandeur. His belief that he is truly this supreme God of justice that will create an new utopia for the universe even drive him to tears, as his feeling of responsibility to set everything right that he thinks is wrong overwhelms him emotionally. Of course, once Vegetto and later Future Trunks prove to be too much of a match for him, Merged Zamasu is reduced to nothing more the equivalent of a deranged madman swinging around a axe and butcher's knife at the same time. Constantly screaming and attacking with more savagery and fury than before and grinning like a psychopath, while making outrageous declarations of Godhood. It was at that point that Zamasu's descent into darkness had gone full circle, as he had officially become just as destructive, violent, aggressive and unhinged as the mortals he vilified and believed the universe would be better without. Of course, the dramatic irony of the situation never became apparent to him, as Zamasu still saw himself as the saviour the universe needed and wanted. Even in his death, his immortal soul and conscious spread across the world, the universe, the multiverse and even throughout timelines. Showing that even with no physically body to carry out his deeds, his spiritual body still feels compelled to become one with order and justice. If there's one thing you can't deny Zamasu had, it was dedication to his cause.

I think some people don't have a proper grasp of Zamasu's goals or motives, because Zamasu is actually a very complicated character. At the start, you see a young, bashful and down-to-earth Kaioshin who ultimately calls a spade a spade and knows of just how dangerous mortals can be and openly questions the system that he is a part of. He feels, given the role that he has, that he doesn't have the true freedom of doing enough to curb the continuing cycle of violence that is tarnishing the imagine of the universe he is meant to protect and look over. Zamasu was clearing getting tired of being a bystander and actually wanted to be an active role as a Kaioshin and instead of just watching mayhem spontaneously unfold before him, and that is what makes his fall from grace all the more raw and amazing to watch. He had good intentions for the sake of his universe but the fashion of which he went about them became more extreme with how events would later unfold, such as him visiting the Babarians planet and encountering Goku. It's what makes him quite an awesome villain, and even to a degree, quite a tragic character. Because he wasn't really evil to begin with. He was just jaded and disillusioned by what he saw and what he knew and took matters into his own hands.

So... yeah. Zamasu is awesome. He is a fantastically written villain, and has many layers to him and which make him, in my humble opinion, the best written antagonist and overall character the franchise has ever produced.[/spoiler]
TL:DR - Zamasu is a great character and villain.

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Re: General Consensus on Zamasu's character?

Post by Asura » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:08 pm

A worse version of Black. Rather annoying, and there could have been a lot more interesting stuff they did with this character. Instead, Black just outshines him in every single possible way and while the whole tag teaming thing is neat, we would have been better off with just Black. Future Zamasu was unneeded IMO.

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Re: General Consensus on Zamasu's character?

Post by Cetra » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:23 pm

He is the pinnacle of Akira Toriyama's design and Toei's narrative. That does not mean much for Dragon Ball as Dragon Balls's narrative is as shallow as a grave you can get out of without climbing but for someone who knows Role Playing Games and likes cliche anime villains he still is an incredible character, ESPECIALLY for Dragon Ball.
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Re: General Consensus on Zamasu's character?

Post by Jackalope89 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:23 pm

Image

It explains so much.

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Re: General Consensus on Zamasu's character?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:47 pm

Regarding the relationship between Goku Black and Future Zamasu, i found interesting the fact that they were about to turn on each other in the manga, when they were getting overpowered by Vegeta and the others. They argued with each other and only stopped after they realized they had to band together (fuse) to survive and to complete their plan. Zamasu even came to physically threaten Black, telling him that he promised their plan would be perfect, that he would be the strongest being in the Universe, etc... But even in the anime, we could see some kind of rivalry between Black and Zamasu. Even though they referred to each other as 'kindred spirits', Zamasu clearly didn't share Black's interest for a strong body, preferring instead an immortal one. So i found it interesting that, while being the same person, Black and Zamasu had differences and sometimes disagreed with each other (even thought their coordination and teamwork was flawless, as they were the same being).

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Re: General Consensus on Zamasu's character?

Post by puar » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:28 pm

he hates all mortals because of bunch of cave man he saw in one shitty unimportent planet. go figure. terrible charecter.

like seariously. how can a kai be that stupid? why would the idiot focused on destroying earth when the earthlings of dragon ball are pretty much the most peacefull and civilized as they can be. they have no countries and no war with each other at all.

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Re: General Consensus on Zamasu's character?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:37 pm

he hates all mortals because of bunch of cave man he saw in one shitty unimportent planet. go figure. terrible charecter.
Zamasu's distrust for mortals derives from the fact he had already witnessed countless deeds committed by mortals (as he tells Gowasu), so he didn't jump to conclusions. The sight of the Babarians only confirmed his worst fears that, even in a thousand years, mortals still can't put aside their foolishness (the Babarians killed each other, wasting the precious gifts granted to them by the Gods). A Babarian even tried to attack Gowasu. A lowly mortal tries to assault his creator. That is a grave sin.
like seariously. how can a kai be that stupid?
Stupid? Zamasu showed the ability to devise complex and intricate plans and schemes. Just to begin the initial stages of his elaborate Zero Mortals Plan, he gathered the Super Dragon Balls (with the aid of Zuno's knowledge), switched bodies with Goku, travelled to a timeline where Beerus had already died (using the Time Rings he had gained after murdering Gowasu, -who had been deceived-), teamed up with the Zamasu of said timeline, and made sure that Zamasu would gain immortality, securing an immortal partner. In the manga, Black's genius goes even further. It is revealed tha the initially had trouble accessing Goku's power, so he exploited the Saiyan Power ability by letting Future Zamasu heal his injuries every time to grow stronger and likewise more adjust to his Saiyan abilities as he unlocked Super Saiyan. He also made sure to butcher every single Supreme Kai in the Future timeline, instantly killing off the Gods of Destruction and turning the Angels inactive. This way, He and his immortal partner were the only deities left in the Future timeline (aside from Zen-Oh).

Zamasu was cold-hearted, calculating, cunning. He was also good at deceit, as he deceived Gowasu into thinking his doubts had disappeared. Zamasu was also a natural prodigy and revered as a genius even amongst the Supreme Kais (and he was just an apprentice!).
why would the idiot focused on destroying earth when the earthlings of dragon ball are pretty much the most peacefull and civilized as they can be. they have no countries and no war with each other at all.
Because they built a time machine. They meddled with the realm of 'time', the domain of the Gods. They committed a grave sin against the sacred laws of the Gods and thus had to be punished.
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Re: General Consensus on Zamasu's character?

Post by Freeza9000 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:41 pm

puar wrote:they have no countries and no war with each other at all.
I don't think you have a good grasp on historical events at all.

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Re: General Consensus on Zamasu's character?

Post by SaiyanZ » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:12 pm

I personally think he's a horribly written character through and through, either as himself or as Goku Black. I've written posts and made videos on why I think this but I guess I can regurgitate it here briefly lol. For someone who hates non-deity characters and praises his own divinity, he steals Goku's body of all things when there were more powerful people to do that too, like Beerus. The basis of his hatred for humanity is nonsensical too, as if mortals (in a universe whose mortal level is higher than U7's) always fight. It made me realize how dumb the archetype of the character is, the type being a God who wants to destroy humans because all they do is fight. His hypocritical nature and actions are also not good, in which I mean not well-expressed; I'm not even sure that was intended to be a point of the character either. His plan is dumb as well, its not even that much of a plan to begin with. He could've had it all with the Super DBs instead of this convoluted idiotic plan of his.
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Re: General Consensus on Zamasu's character?

Post by puar » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:33 pm

Freeza9000 wrote:
puar wrote:they have no countries and no war with each other at all.
I don't think you have a good grasp on historical events at all.
were not talking about the real world were talking about the dragon ball world. in which the planet is united and there are no wars

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Re: General Consensus on Zamasu's character?

Post by puar » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:38 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
he hates all mortals because of bunch of cave man he saw in one shitty unimportent planet. go figure. terrible charecter.
Zamasu's distrust for mortals derives from the fact he had already witnessed countless deeds committed by mortals (as he tells Gowasu), so he didn't jump to conclusions. The sight of the Babarians only confirmed his worst fears that, even in a thousand years, mortals still can't put aside their foolishness (the Babarians killed each other, wasting the precious gifts granted to them by the Gods). A Babarian even tried to attack Gowasu. A lowly mortal tries to assault his creator. That is a grave sin.
like seariously. how can a kai be that stupid?
Stupid? Zamasu showed the ability to devise complex and intricate plans and schemes. Just to begin the initial stages of his elaborate Zero Mortals Plan, he gathered the Super Dragon Balls (with the aid of Zuno's knowledge), switched bodies with Goku, travelled to a timeline where Beerus had already died (using the Time Rings he had gained after murdering Gowasu, -who had been deceived-), teamed up with the Zamasu of said timeline, and made sure that Zamasu would gain immortality, securing an immortal partner. In the manga, Black's genius goes even further. It is revealed tha the initially had trouble accessing Goku's power, so he exploited the Saiyan Power ability by letting Future Zamasu heal his injuries every time to grow stronger and likewise more adjust to his Saiyan abilities as he unlocked Super Saiyan. He also made sure to butcher every single Supreme Kai in the Future timeline, instantly killing off the Gods of Destruction and turning the Angels inactive. This way, He and his immortal partner were the only deities left in the Future timeline (aside from Zen-Oh).

Zamasu was cold-hearted, calculating, cunning. He was also good at deceit, as he deceived Gowasu into thinking his doubts had disappeared. Zamasu was also a natural prodigy and revered as a genius even amongst the Supreme Kais (and he was just an apprentice!).
why would the idiot focused on destroying earth when the earthlings of dragon ball are pretty much the most peacefull and civilized as they can be. they have no countries and no war with each other at all.
Because they built a time machine. They meddled with the realm of 'time', the domain of the Gods. They committed a grave sin against the sacred laws of the Gods and thus had to be punished.
''they'' built a time machine? trunks and bulma did not the entire planet earth

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SupremeKai25
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Re: General Consensus on Zamasu's character?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:43 pm

he steals Goku's body of all things when there were more powerful people to do that too, like Beerus.
Zamasu did that for two reasons:

A) He was personally humiliated by Goku, who physically raised his fists against Zamasu;
B) By taking control of a mortal's body, Zamasu wanted to take upon himself the sins of mortals (who would assault the Gods) and the failures of the Gods (who did nothing in front of the repeated sins of mortals). He saw this as the holy duty of a God.
as if mortals (in a universe whose mortal level is higher than U7's) always fight
He tells Gowasu that he had witnessed countless examples of this, so this does seem to be the case. The problem is also that Gowasu brought Zamasu to a planet inhabited by savage barbarians who barely advanced technologically and culturally in 1.000 years. So Gowasu is partly responsible for Zamasu's fall. Gowasu himself aknowledges that Zamasu is 'his sin'. He failed as a teacher.
He could've had it all with the Super DBs instead of this convoluted idiotic plan of his.
He didn't want to just use the Super Dragon Balls to wish all the mortals to be erased, he wanted to personally butcher them, to shatter their hopes and deliver a slow and painful death. This is because Zamasu was also a sadist and took great joy in the suffering of mortals. Giving them a quick and merciful death (such as erasure) wouldn't have been nearly as satisfying for him.
''they'' built a time machine? trunks and bulma did not the entire planet earth
All Earthlings had to be punished regardless. Also because Zamasu overall saw the civilization of the Earthlings as a taint, a stain on the beauty of the Universe. Think of Universe 6, where the beautiful planet created by the Gods was scarred and turned into a toxic wasteland by the idiotic wars of Earthlings.

I find it funny that some blame Zamasu for destroying the Earthlings to enforce the sacred laws of the Gods, when Beerus destroyed entire civilizations for much less. Yes, Zamasu was twisted and evil, he became the very thing he swore to destroy, but don't pretend the Earthlings didn't bring divine justice upon themselves with their actions which broke the laws of the Universe.
Last edited by SupremeKai25 on Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Freeza9000
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Re: General Consensus on Zamasu's character?

Post by Freeza9000 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm

puar wrote:
Freeza9000 wrote:
puar wrote:they have no countries and no war with each other at all.
I don't think you have a good grasp on historical events at all.
were not talking about the real world were talking about the dragon ball world. in which the planet is united and there are no wars
You mean the numerous amounts of criminal organizations, thieves, robbers, bandits galore that attempted world domination? This is more evident on Future Trunks's crapsack world where one of them nearly drove humanity to the brink of extinction.

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Re: General Consensus on Zamasu's character?

Post by Kanious » Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:52 pm

To me he is the best villain from the entire franchise. Cool design, cool attacks, cool personality and development, AMAZING voice and whatever he talked seemed godly. I count Black as Zamasu too, and that version of Zamasu is very cool too.

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