Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

[JazzMazz]

the fact that jiren isnt speaking much is a plus not a minus. loudmouth charecters are boring

Though I myself am not particularly fond of “loudmouth” characters, I fail to see how Jiren not demonstrating any sort of personality at all makes him less boring then characters that actually have some sort of personality to speak of.

jiren has a personality. you just fail to see it because you think personality has anything to do with talking because jiren isnt talking much. jiren personality is rather uniqe. the problem is with you

Allow me to re-phrase. Jiren has all of two personality traits. His arrogant and belittling. That's it. That's all there is to his character and I don't see how those two traits are particularly unique since literally every other major villain in the history of Dragonball also has these traits and more. In other words, Jiren has the most bare bones personality of the entire franchise thus far. Or at the very least, his anime counter part does.

[precita]

Jiren reminds me of a caveman from a million years ago. "Me unga dunga! Me strongest in man cave! You fight me neanderthal?"

[puar]

Though I myself am not particularly fond of “loudmouth” characters, I fail to see how Jiren not demonstrating any sort of personality at all makes him less boring then characters that actually have some sort of personality to speak of.

jiren has a personality. you just fail to see it because you think personality has anything to do with talking because jiren isnt talking much. jiren personality is rather uniqe. the problem is with you

Allow me to re-phrase. Jiren has all of two personality traits. His arrogant and belittling. That's it. That's all there is to his character and I don't see how those two traits are particularly unique since literally every other major villain in the history of Dragonball also has these traits and more. In other words, Jiren has the most bare bones personality of the entire franchise thus far. Or at the very least, his anime counter part does.

jiren is smart. what you cant say about any dragon vilian until now

[Hawk9211]

jiren has a personality. you just fail to see it because you think personality has anything to do with talking because jiren isnt talking much. jiren personality is rather uniqe. the problem is with you

Allow me to re-phrase. Jiren has all of two personality traits. His arrogant and belittling. That's it. That's all there is to his character and I don't see how those two traits are particularly unique since literally every other major villain in the history of Dragonball also has these traits and more. In other words, Jiren has the most bare bones personality of the entire franchise thus far. Or at the very least, his anime counter part does.

jiren is smart. what you cant say about any dragon vilian until now

Jiren is not a villain,he is antagonist.Roshi,tenshinhan,hit,beerus,freeze,cell were smart and nearly every dragon ball villain is a fighting prodigy even buu.

[TekTheNinja]

I assume it was Toriyama who botched him by inventing him to begin with. Even it the manga so far he just seems like a generic, "I'm so badass. Look at my big power level" type of character.

[TekTheNinja]

jiren has a personality. you just fail to see it because you think personality has anything to do with talking because jiren isnt talking much. jiren personality is rather uniqe. the problem is with you

Allow me to re-phrase. Jiren has all of two personality traits. His arrogant and belittling. That's it. That's all there is to his character and I don't see how those two traits are particularly unique since literally every other major villain in the history of Dragonball also has these traits and more. In other words, Jiren has the most bare bones personality of the entire franchise thus far. Or at the very least, his anime counter part does.

jiren is smart. what you cant say about any dragon vilian until now

"Smart" in what way? We had plenty of better antagonists who were "smart" including Hit just a couple arcs ago.

[JazzMazz]

jiren has a personality. you just fail to see it because you think personality has anything to do with talking because jiren isnt talking much. jiren personality is rather uniqe. the problem is with you

Allow me to re-phrase. Jiren has all of two personality traits. His arrogant and belittling. That's it. That's all there is to his character and I don't see how those two traits are particularly unique since literally every other major villain in the history of Dragonball also has these traits and more. In other words, Jiren has the most bare bones personality of the entire franchise thus far. Or at the very least, his anime counter part does.

jiren is smart. what you cant say about any dragon vilian until now

Again how is he any more smart than any other Dragonball villain?

He stood by and allowed literally half his team to be wiped out, he failed to eliminate Kale, he failed to eliminate Goku despite being able to do so easily and has instead opted for the stupid option of allowing Goku, the only potential threat to him, to improve himself.

How does that scream smart to you, or at the very least, how is that smarter than other Dragonball villains?

[Lionel]

Jiren is perfect for what he seems intended to represent which is a walking fleshly force of nature that the protagonist has to overcome. We know little else about Jiren except that he's a Pride Trooper. In the manga we're given a good initial glimpse into his humanitarian ideology and aversion towards anything that could violate his code of ethics. Somehow Belmod was able to prompt him into putting aside this immediate obligation of his in return for the prospect of using the Super Dragon Balls. You see, that's characterisation, even if it's not much more than two-dimensional. Anime Jiren doesn't capture that personalisation element which may been intentional on Toei's part.

This question depends on what type of character you prefer to have. If it's a mobile force of nature then anime Jiren is really efficient. If you're looking for something more emotive and mentally interesting then manga Jiren has some promise.

[Jigurashi]

Jiren is perfect for what he seems intended to represent which is a walking fleshly force of nature that the protagonist has to overcome. We know little else about Jiren except that he's a Pride Trooper. In the manga we're given a good initial glimpse into his humanitarian ideology and aversion towards anything that could violate his code of ethics. Somehow Belmod was able to prompt him into putting aside this immediate obligation of his in return for the prospect of using the Super Dragon Balls. You see, that's characterisation, even if it's not much more than two-dimensional. Anime Jiren doesn't capture that personalisation element which may been intentional on Toei's part.

This question depends on what type of character you prefer to have. If it's a mobile force of nature then anime Jiren is really efficient. If you're looking for something more emotive and mentally interesting then manga Jiren has some promise.

But I find Anime Jiren more mentally interesting than Manga Jiren.

[Spider-Man]

I find it extremely jarring that an assassin like Hit is more likeable than a superhero like Jiren,that basically what tie in my problem with this character, he is your typical ToP character arrogant and he has 0 redeeming trait which is sad because the anime had 2 great antagonist prior to him.He is far from the worst antagonist that title has to go with Goku Black and Hit in the manga,I hope the manga don't screw up with Jiren.

[MisteryOne]

I find it extremely jarring that an assassin like Hit is more likeable than a superhero like Jiren,that basically what tie in my problem with this character, he is your typical ToP character arrogant and he has 0 redeeming trait which is sad because the anime had 2 great antagonist prior to him.He is far from the worst antagonist that title has to go with Goku Black and Hit in the manga.

How on hell is Manga Black worse than Perfect Cell or Jiren? Please elaborate.

[Spider-Man]

How on hell is Manga Black worse than Perfect Cell or Jiren?

At least perfect cell is more memorable and Jiren fullfilled his role as an antagonist.Manga black only had a better motivation than Cell other than that he is just typical DBZ villain that was defeated twice and only won 1 once,He didn't even interact with Goku.I would have put him above cell if he destroyed Vegeta in 19 or at least no temper tantrum then he would be above cell to a lesser extent Anime Jiren.

Perfect cell wasn't perfect by all means,he was also generic but at least he had a great introduction see imperfect cell as well he delivered a lot of memorable moments.

[SupremeKai25]

I find it extremely jarring that an assassin like Hit is more likeable than a superhero like Jiren,that basically what tie in my problem with this character, he is your typical ToP character arrogant and he has 0 redeeming trait which is sad because the anime had 2 great antagonist prior to him.He is far from the worst antagonist that title has to go with Goku Black and Hit in the manga.

How on hell is Manga Black worse than Perfect Cell or Jiren? Please elaborate.

Manga Black is very different from anime Black. Manga Black lost his temper often, whereas what made Black unique is that he was one of the very few villains in the franchise to maintain his calm and composure in face of obstacles. When Black was overpowered by Vegeta in the anime, he remained serene and devised a way to outsmart his opponent. When Black was overpowered by Vegeta in the manga, he freaked out.

At least that's, from my understanding, the main reason why anime Black is considered a better character, from a personality standpoint, than manga Black. I do believe that the manga explained Super Saiyan Rosè and Black's Zenkai Boosts much better than the anime did, but that's another subject entirely.

[RedShift]

Allow me to re-phrase. Jiren has all of two personality traits. His arrogant and belittling. That's it. That's all there is to his character and I don't see how those two traits are particularly unique since literally every other major villain in the history of Dragonball also has these traits and more. In other words, Jiren has the most bare bones personality of the entire franchise thus far. Or at the very least, his anime counter part does.

Agreed. Though I like the general mystery of why he acts this way and how he got to where he is, he's still not that interesting. What I do like is that while he's still arrogant & belittling, he doesn't vomit self-absorbed dialogue all over the place like every past villain has. I've heard that enough from from every past Dragonball villain.

At this point I like Jiren not because of Jiren, but because I know the episodes he's fighting in are going to be very well animated.

[MisteryOne]

How on hell is Manga Black worse than Perfect Cell or Jiren?

At least perfect cell is more memorable and Jiren fullfilled his role as an antagonist.Manga black only had a better motivation than Cell other than that he is just typical DBZ villain that was defeated twice and only won 1 once,He didn't even interact with Goku.I would have put him above cell if he destroyed Vegeta in 19 or at least no temper tantrum then he would be above cell to a lesser extent Anime Jiren.

Perfect cell wasn't perfect by all means,he was also generic but at least he had a great introduction see imperfect cell as well he delivered a lot of memorable moments.

This doesn't make any sense at all. Jiren is nowhere near as close as Manga Black to fill the role of a good antagonist. He never interacted with Goku? Are you really implying that the only way to interact with another character is to have a fight? And an antagonist needs tp destroy Vegeta to fill his role better? Same goes for the wins, are we really using a victory/defeat rate to defy an antagonist? Am I really supposed to take this comment seriously? Even Future Zamasu in the manga is a better and more interesting antagonist than Jiren so far.

How is Perfect Cell more memorable than Manga Black again? If you're using Imperfect Cell to put it higher, not only you're proving my point of his Perfect version being so shitty that it doesn't have anything to itself, but in that case you also have to consider both Present, Future and Merged Zamasu when talking about Black. And Manga Zamasu as a whole is in no way worse than Cell. Their interactions, their differences and how they designed the Zero Mortals plan are leagues above Semiperfect and Perfect Cell.

[MisteryOne]

I find it extremely jarring that an assassin like Hit is more likeable than a superhero like Jiren,that basically what tie in my problem with this character, he is your typical ToP character arrogant and he has 0 redeeming trait which is sad because the anime had 2 great antagonist prior to him.He is far from the worst antagonist that title has to go with Goku Black and Hit in the manga.

How on hell is Manga Black worse than Perfect Cell or Jiren? Please elaborate.

Manga Black is very different from anime Black. Manga Black lost his temper often, whereas what made Black unique is that he was one of the very few villains in the franchise to maintain his calm and composure in face of obstacles. When Black was overpowered by Vegeta in the anime, he remained serene and devised a way to outsmart his opponent. When Black was overpowered by Vegeta in the manga, he freaked out.

At least that's, from my understanding, the main reason why anime Black is considered a better character, from a personality standpoint, than manga Black. I do believe that the manga explained Super Saiyan Rosè and Black's Zenkai Boosts much better than the anime did, but that's another subject entirely.

Please ecplain me what this has to do with my question. Not that I disagree (outside of being way more incompetent and having BS power ups the anime version is way better), but it seems kinda pointless when Anime Black was not even being the one compared.

[Spider-Man]

SNIP.

,Anime Jiren is a force of nature and is one Best wall that the series in spite of having a flat personality

.I definitely exaggerated to the memorable since Perfect cell is pretty boring but you can't deny that he did contributed to one of the most memorable transformation.I'm sorry but having a chapter where our main character utterly destroyed the bad guy and gets saved by luck is not my cup of tea, I will admit I do like the implications of Ft zamasu being corrupted by black, just wish the manga actually spent time on that.I did not even mentioned Zamas since he is ok character in the manga,is just black is not threatening at all, I couldn't care less about flashy or his mannerisms in the anime, I just wish Toyo had black cunning and sly like belhmod, have him not freaked when he was ragtag by Vegeta.

[SupremeKai25]

How on hell is Manga Black worse than Perfect Cell or Jiren? Please elaborate.

Manga Black is very different from anime Black. Manga Black lost his temper often, whereas what made Black unique is that he was one of the very few villains in the franchise to maintain his calm and composure in face of obstacles. When Black was overpowered by Vegeta in the anime, he remained serene and devised a way to outsmart his opponent. When Black was overpowered by Vegeta in the manga, he freaked out.

At least that's, from my understanding, the main reason why anime Black is considered a better character, from a personality standpoint, than manga Black. I do believe that the manga explained Super Saiyan Rosè and Black's Zenkai Boosts much better than the anime did, but that's another subject entirely.

Please ecplain me what this has to do with my question. Not that I disagree (outside of being way more incompetent and having BS power ups the anime version is way better), but it seems kinda pointless when Anime Black was not even being the one compared.

That is actually the reason why Manga Black (which is what was being compared) is often frowned upon (personality-wise). Because he is vastly different from the beloved anime incarnation, and in a seemingly negative way.

[Sykin]

He's proof that the large portion of the Dragon Ball fandom can't handle a mysterious character. Why is he so strong? What's his background story? What could he possibly want to wish for? It's not that Jiren doesn't have a personality, it's that his personality itself is a mystery. It's pretty obvious that they're going to expand upon him or else they wouldn't have even brought up the fact that he had a wish. I don't really understand why people expect him to be as developed as someone that's been around for 20 years when he hasn't even been on screen for an entire hour. If the ToP ends and he's left the way he currently is? Okay, then I'll complain. As of now, his character arc is barely starting the way I see it.

Goku Black only worked as a mystery because it was more clear-cut one.Also just because it was Goku. Something weird was happening with an established character and that drew a lot of attention and thinking towards it. Something out of the ordinary is happening with a new character but because he wasn't already established, people aren't looking into it as much. I'm by no means saying that Jiren is perfect or anything as he most certainly could have been handled a lot better. I guess we'll see, though.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

Yes, he still has no discernible character. Apparently he has some in the manga but as of now he's just a less annoying Broli. Yeah they could give him more after the tournament but I still think they're behind on giving Hit his character.

Also there's no mystery here. nothing has been teased or suggested.