Reasons why it was obvious 17 was going to outlast Gohan.

[TheDipDap1234]

18 *had* a supposedly WOW scene against Ribrianne, but it's not very effective because the production did everything in their power to prevent us from taking Ribrianne seriously. She was constantly treated as a gag character and it made 18's moment kinda shallow.

Eh, I have to disagree with you a little on that one. Ribrianne was one of the few new characters to get promoted in this arc, a magazine even listed her as someone we should "watch out for" along with Jiren and Kale, and Liquir (The God of Universe eight) praised her in episode 108 and said Universe 2 might win with Ribrianne in their team. It was a big win for 18 in my opinion. She defeated Universe 2's strongest and most memorable fighter quite easily. Before the episode aired, barely any people thought 18 will defeat Ribrianne. Almost everyone thought 18 will get eliminated for many reasons yet she still survived. As an 18 fan, I was satisfied with her performance in this arc. She eliminated a bunch of fighters, saved Goku, Krillin and 17, got more eliminations than Gohan, lasted longer than Piccolo, almost made it to the top 10 final fighters, outlasted all the other female characters, became stronger than ever before and had some nice interactions with her brother and the person she wanted to kill in the past. The only problem I had with her is that she had to get saved a little too many times by her teammates. It made her look like a damsel in distress and it was annoying.

A well Said Post TheDipDap1234, it was a Great Read.

Indeed Ribrianne was no soft-weight, she was one of the More Serious characters to not only be promoted in this Arc but have some of the more Interesting Development outside of U7 characters. I know she is not to everyone's tastes but No character is, that does not ever = to non-importance. What made the Win for 18 so Big was that many, Me too, where not expecting 18 to win cause of the relevant power differences that seem to be between the 2 ladies and then a New Form for Brianne that was tease to get and in a way she did. While I still thing Toei slept-ed on Ribrianne somewhat by the end of her last few showings and was to a degree a victim of Toei's power scaling mess in this arc, Ribriane STILL was a force to be known. It took 18 having her own Moment of Realization of what give her True Strength to call-upon a New Power that was, LIKE BRIANNE, based on the Power~of~Love!

In this case for her Family, 18 gained a whole new level Thanks to her confrontation with Ribrianne, being beneficial to 18's character for the long-run in both development and power. It also was Benifical for Brianne too, learning of a New Form of Love for her was a Great Discovery and what Many Fans I saw Respect about Brianne after 117 was that she took her Lose not only with Classy-Grace but as a moment to grow in those regards admiring 18 and Krillian's connection threw Love. THAT is character growth and shows that while 18 or Brianne are not on the Crazy levels of Power like Goku, Vegeta and Jiren are, they are on a Nice level of personal growth, depth and strength of their own levels of crazy powerful!

Indeed I was not happy to see Brianne Go, I was sad and missed her greatly, but 18 with 17 along with her go a Clean win and in the long-run I feel after reviewing it over sometime that for the long-run it was beneficial to both ladies. Ever character IS-important to someone and I am glad for you TheDipDap1234 as a fan of 18 she go to shine in the way you where hoping and at the same time you saw Ribrianne as well as a powerful yet worthy fighter that was BIG for 18 to win over.

Like I have said before about that fight, my other main hope is that Many see Ribrianne/Brianne was a major part of 18's growth and threw the philosophy of love it helped 18 gain a new power base on love as well. That fan's found a respect in those moment for Ribrianne for being apart of that for the challenge she put up, for her beliefs and most of all for her classy character reaction to her lose to take it as a learning moment.

Also episode 118 took this and Road with it to Level 11 and showed the True Nature of Universe 2 and Brianne's importance to her Universe.

Brianne is the GODDESS and Champion of their people, a Star on a Known level threw-out her Whole Universe we never really seen before in Dragon Ball. My only = to it is IMO Superman from DC Comics, but I am sure their are other examples too. Brianne is way powerful, just like any heroe, but like any hero one eventually meets others that are stronger and in Hopes My Brianne in the future will become stronger as well.

Before I ramble on anymore, my point is with all of this is the Brianne WAS and Still IS an Important Character with great openings for character growth and interaction. I fell both 17 and 18 developed a connection to Brianne and U2 and it gives me hope and ideas cause they are all Heroes in the end that in future DB shows Toei will ride with that and place them together for character growth, development and funny hijacks with each other, U2, 17, 18 and the Krillian Family!

Thank you! Your comment is very well said too!

Watching the magical girls hang out with 17, 18 and Krillin in a future DB show would definitely be something awesome. 18 and Krillin could teach them more about love and become big friends, maybe we could see 17's wife too and Brianne could learn from them as well.

[Nickolaidas]

Indeed Ribrianne was no soft-weight, she was one of the More Serious characters to not only be promoted in this Arc but have some of the more Interesting Development outside of U7 characters. I know she is not to everyone's tastes but No character is, that does not ever = to non-importance. What made the Win for 18 so Big was that many, Me too, where not expecting 18 to win cause of the relevant power differences that seem to be between the 2 ladies and then a New Form for Brianne that was tease to get and in a way she did. While I still thing Toei slept-ed on Ribrianne somewhat by the end of her last few showings and was to a degree a victim of Toei's power scaling mess in this arc, Ribriane STILL was a force to be known. It took 18 having her own Moment of Realization of what give her True Strength to call-upon a New Power that was, LIKE BRIANNE, based on the Power~of~Love!

In this case for her Family, 18 gained a whole new level Thanks to her confrontation with Ribrianne, being beneficial to 18's character for the long-run in both development and power. It also was Benifical for Brianne too, learning of a New Form of Love for her was a Great Discovery and what Many Fans I saw Respect about Brianne after 117 was that she took her Lose not only with Classy-Grace but as a moment to grow in those regards admiring 18 and Krillian's connection threw Love. THAT is character growth and shows that while 18 or Brianne are not on the Crazy levels of Power like Goku, Vegeta and Jiren are, they are on a Nice level of personal growth, depth and strength of their own levels of crazy powerful!

Indeed I was not happy to see Brianne Go, I was sad and missed her greatly, but 18 with 17 along with her go a Clean win and in the long-run I feel after reviewing it over sometime that for the long-run it was beneficial to both ladies. Ever character IS-important to someone and I am glad for you TheDipDap1234 as a fan of 18 she go to shine in the way you where hoping and at the same time you saw Ribrianne as well as a powerful yet worthy fighter that was BIG for 18 to win over.

Like I have said before about that fight, my other main hope is that Many see Ribrianne/Brianne was a major part of 18's growth and threw the philosophy of love it helped 18 gain a new power base on love as well. That fan's found a respect in those moment for Ribrianne for being apart of that for the challenge she put up, for her beliefs and most of all for her classy character reaction to her lose to take it as a learning moment.

Also episode 118 took this and Road with it to Level 11 and showed the True Nature of Universe 2 and Brianne's importance to her Universe.

Brianne is the GODDESS and Champion of their people, a Star on a Known level threw-out her Whole Universe we never really seen before in Dragon Ball. My only = to it is IMO Superman from DC Comics, but I am sure their are other examples too. Brianne is way powerful, just like any heroe, but like any hero one eventually meets others that are stronger and in Hopes My Brianne in the future will become stronger as well.

Before I ramble on anymore, my point is with all of this is the Brianne WAS and Still IS an Important Character with great openings for character growth and interaction. I fell both 17 and 18 developed a connection to Brianne and U2 and it gives me hope and ideas cause they are all Heroes in the end that in future DB shows Toei will ride with that and place them together for character growth, development and funny hijacks with each other, U2, 17, 18 and the Krillian Family!

You are making the same mistake you always do - immediately talking about how greatly developed Ribrianne was/is as a character and how much her presence improved the lives of other characters (infusing a huge amount of your headcanon every step of the way), which is completely irrelevant to what I was talking about.

Compare Ribrianne to Kefla, a U6 powerhouse that effectively fought UI Goku.
Compare Ribrianne to Anilaza, a monster of a creature who took the entire-freaking-effort of all U7 powerhouses to be beaten and #17’s ingenuity.
Compare Ribrianne to Hit, the only non-U7 fighter who challenged Jiren and fought him like a badass.
Compare Ribrianne to Jiren, the arc’s main antagonist who has yet to be humbled by anyone in the Tournament.
Compare Ribrianne to Frost, a lower-leveled character who nearly KOed two U7 fighters (one of them being the co-protagonist of show).

Ignore her (supposed) character development for a moment. What has Ribrianne managed to do in the ToP, elimination wise? What damage did she inflict on U7 characters? Which of the top U7 characters needed to give their all to fight her? Despite her lengthy screen time, she never registered herself as someone truly powerful and able to give the U7’s top fighters a run for their money (exchanging punches with base/SSJ Goku is useless since we know that’s a fraction of his true power). Heck, her GROUPIES ended up being more of a threat than she ever was.

Again, I’m NOT talking about how oh so amazing, beautiful and awesome of a character she is, I’m talking about THREAT LEVEL in the ToP. I’m talking about eliminations and inflicted damage on the U7 fighters and generally how worried were fans of U7 characters when their favourite character was tangling with her.

If Gohan’s only elimination in the ToP was Ribrianne while each other U7 fighter had taken out Toppo, Dyspo, Anilaza, Hit, Kefla, the Trio de Dangers or Jiren, can you possibly comprehend the utter shitstorm his fans would give the internet?

Ribrianne was lacking in terms of threat level, pure and simple. And that’s why I think 18 beating her isn’t something for 18’s fans to crow about.

Roshi giving Frost (a creature dozen of times more powerful than him) a run for his money? #17 rescuing the entire team from their gigantic opponent? Goku being the one who will beat Jiren? That’s definitely something for their fans to be happy about.

[TheDipDap1234]

You are making the same mistake you always do - immediately talking about how greatly developed Ribrianne was/is as a character and how much her presence improved the lives of other characters (infusing a huge amount of your headcanon every step of the way), which is completely irrelevant to what I was talking about.

Compare Ribrianne to Kefla, a U6 powerhouse that effectively fought UI Goku.
Compare Ribrianne to Anilaza, a monster of a creature who took the entire-freaking-effort of all U7 powerhouses to be beaten and #17’s ingenuity.
Compare Ribrianne to Hit, the only non-U7 fighter who challenged Jiren and fought him like a badass.
Compare Ribrianne to Jiren, the arc’s main antagonist who has yet to be humbled by anyone in the Tournament.
Compare Ribrianne to Frost, a lower-leveled character who nearly KOed two U7 fighters (one of them being the co-protagonist of show).

Ignore her (supposed) character development for a moment. What has Ribrianne managed to do in the ToP, elimination wise? What damage did she inflict on U7 characters? Which of the top U7 characters needed to give their all to fight her? Despite her lengthy screen time, she never registered herself as someone truly powerful and able to give the U7’s top fighters a run for their money (exchanging punches with base/SSJ Goku is useless since we know that’s a fraction of his true power). Heck, her GROUPIES ended up being more of a threat than she ever was.

Again, I’m NOT talking about how oh so amazing, beautiful and awesome of a character she is, I’m talking about THREAT LEVEL in the ToP. I’m talking about eliminations and inflicted damage on the U7 fighters and generally how worried were fans of U7 characters when their favourite character was tangling with her.

If Gohan’s only elimination in the ToP was Ribrianne while each other U7 fighter had taken out Toppo, Dyspo, Anilaza, Hit, Kefla, the Trio de Dangers or Jiren, can you possibly comprehend the utter shitstorm his fans would give the internet?

Ribrianne was lacking in terms of threat level, pure and simple. And that’s why I think 18 beating her isn’t something for 18’s fans to crow about.

Roshi giving Frost (a creature dozen of times more powerful than him) a run for his money? #17 rescuing the entire team from their gigantic opponent? Goku being the one who will beat Jiren? That’s definitely something for their fans to be happy about.

Ribrianne eliminated Jirasen, the leader of Universe 10 if that counts as anything elimination wise. Ribrianne also almost eliminated 18, but then 18 got a power-boost and eliminated Ribrianne all by herself. As I already said in my comment above, nobody thought 18 will defeat Ribrianne, almost everyone thought she will get eliminated in episode 117 by Ribrianne especially once they heard Ribrianne will get a new form. Even the 18 fans thought she will be done for, especially after she even got a leg injury some episodes prior. True, Ribrianne was not Anilaza or Hit level of treat, but she doesn't need to be in order to make people think she will eliminate 18. And Ribrianne wasn't that much of a weakling. Her second form forced Goku to transform, and her final form was even stronger than that. Still not Kefla level of treat but again, she didn't need to be in order to make 18 fans worried.

You can't compare someone like Gohan to 18. Gohan is immensely more popular than half of the Universe 7 team with a more vocal fanbase. Gohan also got a lot of focus in the recruitment arc while 18 barely got any which is why a lot of people thought she will get eliminated early.

Roshi only gave Frost trouble because Frost had to suppress himself a lot in order to not kill him. We don't know if Goku will be the one to defeat Jiren or that he will defeat him all by himself, but even if he will it was something that a lot of people thought will happen anyway. Who thought 18 will defeat Ribrianne's final form incredibly easily with an injured ankle? Almost no one on the internet. Who thought 18 will outlast Krillin and even Piccolo? Barely anyone. 18 made most of her fans happy (including myself) by having an overall good performance in the ToP, even if she didn't eliminate someone that was as strong as Hit or Jiren.

[HeroR]

The problem with Rib is that she got a lot of scene time that didn't amount to much. Kale and Cali got a lot of scene time too, but the pay off was one of the best fights in Super even for people who hate the characters. Rib has nothing like that going for her.

[Nickolaidas]

Wasn't Obuni the leader / best fighter of U10?

[TheDipDap1234]

Wasn't Obuni the leader / best fighter of U10?

Here you can see who the leader of each universe was

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Obuni was most likely the best fighter but Jirasen was the team leader.

[Nickolaidas]

I see. Regardless, doesn't change the fact that he was portrayed as a nobody and his elimination hardly makes Ribrianne more threatening.

(Also it's weird that he was a U10 guy - his entire rose/Vega design screamed U2)

Anyway, I've derailed long enough. This thread isn't about Ribrianne.

[CJStriker_CBR]

Indeed Ribrianne was no soft-weight, she was one of the More Serious characters to not only be promoted in this Arc but have some of the more Interesting Development outside of U7 characters. I know she is not to everyone's tastes but No character is, that does not ever = to non-importance. What made the Win for 18 so Big was that many, Me too, where not expecting 18 to win cause of the relevant power differences that seem to be between the 2 ladies and then a New Form for Brianne that was tease to get and in a way she did. While I still thing Toei slept-ed on Ribrianne somewhat by the end of her last few showings and was to a degree a victim of Toei's power scaling mess in this arc, Ribriane STILL was a force to be known. It took 18 having her own Moment of Realization of what give her True Strength to call-upon a New Power that was, LIKE BRIANNE, based on the Power~of~Love!

In this case for her Family, 18 gained a whole new level Thanks to her confrontation with Ribrianne, being beneficial to 18's character for the long-run in both development and power. It also was Benifical for Brianne too, learning of a New Form of Love for her was a Great Discovery and what Many Fans I saw Respect about Brianne after 117 was that she took her Lose not only with Classy-Grace but as a moment to grow in those regards admiring 18 and Krillian's connection threw Love. THAT is character growth and shows that while 18 or Brianne are not on the Crazy levels of Power like Goku, Vegeta and Jiren are, they are on a Nice level of personal growth, depth and strength of their own levels of crazy powerful!

Indeed I was not happy to see Brianne Go, I was sad and missed her greatly, but 18 with 17 along with her go a Clean win and in the long-run I feel after reviewing it over sometime that for the long-run it was beneficial to both ladies. Ever character IS-important to someone and I am glad for you TheDipDap1234 as a fan of 18 she go to shine in the way you where hoping and at the same time you saw Ribrianne as well as a powerful yet worthy fighter that was BIG for 18 to win over.

Like I have said before about that fight, my other main hope is that Many see Ribrianne/Brianne was a major part of 18's growth and threw the philosophy of love it helped 18 gain a new power base on love as well. That fan's found a respect in those moment for Ribrianne for being apart of that for the challenge she put up, for her beliefs and most of all for her classy character reaction to her lose to take it as a learning moment.

Also episode 118 took this and Road with it to Level 11 and showed the True Nature of Universe 2 and Brianne's importance to her Universe.

Brianne is the GODDESS and Champion of their people, a Star on a Known level threw-out her Whole Universe we never really seen before in Dragon Ball. My only = to it is IMO Superman from DC Comics, but I am sure their are other examples too. Brianne is way powerful, just like any heroe, but like any hero one eventually meets others that are stronger and in Hopes My Brianne in the future will become stronger as well.

Before I ramble on anymore, my point is with all of this is the Brianne WAS and Still IS an Important Character with great openings for character growth and interaction. I fell both 17 and 18 developed a connection to Brianne and U2 and it gives me hope and ideas cause they are all Heroes in the end that in future DB shows Toei will ride with that and place them together for character growth, development and funny hijacks with each other, U2, 17, 18 and the Krillian Family!

You are making the same mistake you always do - immediately talking about how greatly developed Ribrianne was/is as a character and how much her presence improved the lives of other characters (infusing a huge amount of your headcanon every step of the way), which is completely irrelevant to what I was talking about.

Compare Ribrianne to Kefla, a U6 powerhouse that effectively fought UI Goku.
Compare Ribrianne to Anilaza, a monster of a creature who took the entire-freaking-effort of all U7 powerhouses to be beaten and #17’s ingenuity.
Compare Ribrianne to Hit, the only non-U7 fighter who challenged Jiren and fought him like a badass.
Compare Ribrianne to Jiren, the arc’s main antagonist who has yet to be humbled by anyone in the Tournament.
Compare Ribrianne to Frost, a lower-leveled character who nearly KOed two U7 fighters (one of them being the co-protagonist of show).

Ignore her (supposed) character development for a moment. What has Ribrianne managed to do in the ToP, elimination wise? What damage did she inflict on U7 characters? Which of the top U7 characters needed to give their all to fight her? Despite her lengthy screen time, she never registered herself as someone truly powerful and able to give the U7’s top fighters a run for their money (exchanging punches with base/SSJ Goku is useless since we know that’s a fraction of his true power). Heck, her GROUPIES ended up being more of a threat than she ever was.

Again, I’m NOT talking about how oh so amazing, beautiful and awesome of a character she is, I’m talking about THREAT LEVEL in the ToP. I’m talking about eliminations and inflicted damage on the U7 fighters and generally how worried were fans of U7 characters when their favourite character was tangling with her.

If Gohan’s only elimination in the ToP was Ribrianne while each other U7 fighter had taken out Toppo, Dyspo, Anilaza, Hit, Kefla, the Trio de Dangers or Jiren, can you possibly comprehend the utter shitstorm his fans would give the internet?

Ribrianne was lacking in terms of threat level, pure and simple. And that’s why I think 18 beating her isn’t something for 18’s fans to crow about.

Roshi giving Frost (a creature dozen of times more powerful than him) a run for his money? #17 rescuing the entire team from their gigantic opponent? Goku being the one who will beat Jiren? That’s definitely something for their fans to be happy about.

Well that is cause we both seem value different aspects of a character.

Most of my Adult life and espically over the last Several Years Reviewing Comics, Movies, TV and Yes Animes with Other Forum Friends and Friends in Real Life at comic stores and other places, what We Value the Most out of a character is that OF the Definition of the character, their canon and how they have developed as a character. Their Persona, Values, Will & Beliefs is what is the most defining aspects of them that take up a VAST majority of discussions I have had about characters in all Pop Culture mediums. It is the Most important aspect to a character, Not Victories or how Powerful they are, it is WHO they are and how they have developed.

A character can be massively powerful, have Dozens of powers and KO everyone like nothing, but character is what trumps all other aspects.

Indeed however, I wanted more power for Ribrianne cause her character's build earned that level of power. Indeed she did not go as High as I thought she could, but that is just how things went and maybe that was my own fault for raising the bars to high. It is only in the moments after the fights that going over the substance of those moments that allowed me to see just how FULL Ribrianne filled her glass in the end.

I already went over the aspects of Character, but before I end that I have to disagree that no my aspects of her character are not base on headcannon cause headcannon is wishful thinking or wishful things you wish did happen. What I give is what I observed threw the character, what I got out of her performance and her journey in all of this. I did not expect aspects to be given to me like they did, the ones I mentioned before, I did not think we had time for that in the ToP but Toei put that 1st for her and I am happy for that.

in the end after these observations, Her power level was fine as well and to compare her to Goku, Vegeta or Jiren is roughly mostly unfair cause they are Crazy of the Top in Power, literally no one can compare to them anymore, Toei needs to find a way to even this out more.

A character scaling level is the lesser important aspect of them.

All those moments of other characters achievements and showing of powers you gave to try to compare Ribrianne are moments that are for those Characters that should be celebrated greatly. Each moment is for them and them alone, it should be celebrated of those characters both of what they showed and what where able to do. But those don't undercut Ribrianne or 18 in the slightest, cause they showed their own Great Level of Power, even if it is greater or lesser then others, it is still a Great Showing of Power on a high level and story defining depths.

We to often seem to sniff away at any level these days that is not the New shiny highest one, which I think is wrong cause these Levels are still impressive, these characters are such beings of Power they be Demi-Gods in many other franchises, so I don't in any easy fashion sniff away what was shown just cause it is not Jiren or Goku's levels.

The point is we have different Values as fans, I think it is deeper for a character however to have development, learning and definition to them. Power Levels are 2nd and if that is not followed up but some character persona they end up being a hollow shell easy to forget.

Ribrianne has Great Power, but by not being the Top Dog she has such a GREAT Journey to Go Threw to get better now. She filled her Glass well up to this point, but has much more to fill now to catch up with, sometimes not being the top means you have more possibilities for stories to follow to get their. But the fact that she has a character and a relatively important one in her Universe, she has much weight to her to have the development cause she is both interesting, valuable and willing to learn and those are the most important aspects for a character to have!

These are the aspects I value most and the ones that made Ribrianne Such Gold in this and Really 18's Victory over Ribrianne should be one that 18 fans hold High cause of just who Ribrianne is, Not just her Power but her Importance as both a character and her possition in the Mythos!

[CJStriker_CBR]

Eh, I have to disagree with you a little on that one. Ribrianne was one of the few new characters to get promoted in this arc, a magazine even listed her as someone we should "watch out for" along with Jiren and Kale, and Liquir (The God of Universe eight) praised her in episode 108 and said Universe 2 might win with Ribrianne in their team. It was a big win for 18 in my opinion. She defeated Universe 2's strongest and most memorable fighter quite easily. Before the episode aired, barely any people thought 18 will defeat Ribrianne. Almost everyone thought 18 will get eliminated for many reasons yet she still survived. As an 18 fan, I was satisfied with her performance in this arc. She eliminated a bunch of fighters, saved Goku, Krillin and 17, got more eliminations than Gohan, lasted longer than Piccolo, almost made it to the top 10 final fighters, outlasted all the other female characters, became stronger than ever before and had some nice interactions with her brother and the person she wanted to kill in the past. The only problem I had with her is that she had to get saved a little too many times by her teammates. It made her look like a damsel in distress and it was annoying.

A well Said Post TheDipDap1234, it was a Great Read.

Indeed Ribrianne was no soft-weight, she was one of the More Serious characters to not only be promoted in this Arc but have some of the more Interesting Development outside of U7 characters. I know she is not to everyone's tastes but No character is, that does not ever = to non-importance. What made the Win for 18 so Big was that many, Me too, where not expecting 18 to win cause of the relevant power differences that seem to be between the 2 ladies and then a New Form for Brianne that was tease to get and in a way she did. While I still thing Toei slept-ed on Ribrianne somewhat by the end of her last few showings and was to a degree a victim of Toei's power scaling mess in this arc, Ribriane STILL was a force to be known. It took 18 having her own Moment of Realization of what give her True Strength to call-upon a New Power that was, LIKE BRIANNE, based on the Power~of~Love!

In this case for her Family, 18 gained a whole new level Thanks to her confrontation with Ribrianne, being beneficial to 18's character for the long-run in both development and power. It also was Benifical for Brianne too, learning of a New Form of Love for her was a Great Discovery and what Many Fans I saw Respect about Brianne after 117 was that she took her Lose not only with Classy-Grace but as a moment to grow in those regards admiring 18 and Krillian's connection threw Love. THAT is character growth and shows that while 18 or Brianne are not on the Crazy levels of Power like Goku, Vegeta and Jiren are, they are on a Nice level of personal growth, depth and strength of their own levels of crazy powerful!

Indeed I was not happy to see Brianne Go, I was sad and missed her greatly, but 18 with 17 along with her go a Clean win and in the long-run I feel after reviewing it over sometime that for the long-run it was beneficial to both ladies. Ever character IS-important to someone and I am glad for you TheDipDap1234 as a fan of 18 she go to shine in the way you where hoping and at the same time you saw Ribrianne as well as a powerful yet worthy fighter that was BIG for 18 to win over.

Like I have said before about that fight, my other main hope is that Many see Ribrianne/Brianne was a major part of 18's growth and threw the philosophy of love it helped 18 gain a new power base on love as well. That fan's found a respect in those moment for Ribrianne for being apart of that for the challenge she put up, for her beliefs and most of all for her classy character reaction to her lose to take it as a learning moment.

Also episode 118 took this and Road with it to Level 11 and showed the True Nature of Universe 2 and Brianne's importance to her Universe.

Brianne is the GODDESS and Champion of their people, a Star on a Known level threw-out her Whole Universe we never really seen before in Dragon Ball. My only = to it is IMO Superman from DC Comics, but I am sure their are other examples too. Brianne is way powerful, just like any heroe, but like any hero one eventually meets others that are stronger and in Hopes My Brianne in the future will become stronger as well.

Before I ramble on anymore, my point is with all of this is the Brianne WAS and Still IS an Important Character with great openings for character growth and interaction. I fell both 17 and 18 developed a connection to Brianne and U2 and it gives me hope and ideas cause they are all Heroes in the end that in future DB shows Toei will ride with that and place them together for character growth, development and funny hijacks with each other, U2, 17, 18 and the Krillian Family!

Thank you! Your comment is very well said too!

Watching the magical girls hang out with 17, 18 and Krillin in a future DB show would definitely be something awesome. 18 and Krillin could teach them more about love and become big friends, maybe we could see 17's wife too and Brianne could learn from them as well.

Thanks TheDipDap1234, Very Nice to Talk you on this!

Indeed I am happy that after episode 118 we got to see that Brianne's defintion of Love threw her Universe and Friends was genuine and powerful, BUTTTTTTT like in Many Stories the Power of Romantic Love is usually always the Strongest Love and that awoke the interest in Brianne and the Girls about it more and showed they are willing to learn from others to better themselves by their ideals, the fact that Toei add that to Brianne and the Girl's characters was Golden!

It indeed opens the door for Interacting and they all share Good Traits, 17 and 18 like having interesting fun and being flashy in their presentations just like the U2 Girls and honestly it be right up all the characters ideals!

In the end ALL of these Characters are Good Guys and really only fought cause they had to, but when you take that away they are more likely to work together and even enjoy each other to grow together. The long-term prospects for them if this is the Road Toei does for them in the next series which I hope allot for is indeed I agree would Definitely~Be~Something~Awesome!!!

[GohanRogers]

Man, you fanboys are annoying. Gohan is my favorite character, but I don't go around saying "MY FAVORITE CHARACTER IS OBVIOUSLY GONNA OUTLAST A MUCH IMPORTANT CHARACTER IN THE STORY, OBVIOUSLY". If it was obvious that 17 would outlast Gohan, there wouldn't be so many pissed off fans out there and there would be, you know, SOME KIND OF BUILD UP to at least try to justify it. There wasn't ANY build up to justify #17 outlasting Gohan and staying in the ToP for so long. Gohan played a MUCH more important part in this whole saga, since the recruitment arc until the recent episodes. Gohan was portrayed as Goku's tag partner in the endings, was foreshadowed as Goku's equal in episode 118, was constantly teased to get a new form, displayed huge potential in episode 90 (Goku vs Gohan) and the most important factor: Gohan is a much more important character to the story of Dragon Ball. He is the goddamn son of the main character. He has a much more developed story on his back. He (and Goku) is (are) the main character(s) of Dragon Ball Z. He is a character with the potential to be the strongest.

I have nothing against 17, but his comeback sucked. It was basically "I was fighting against humans while protecting my island, so I'M GOD SSJ BLUE LEVEL NOW". It makes zero sense, specially because he was never important and never mentioned again since the Cell saga. His comeback was unnatural and forced because there was zero build up behind it. There was much more context, story and logic in Gohan's comeback than 17's. It was not obvious that 17 would outlast Gohan, that was just Toriyama trying to sell an old character that was not relevant for 5 sagas in exchange of a much more developed character, much more important to the story and with much more build up. You can argue all you want, but that's the truth. If TOEI chooses to devolp 17's character in the future and makes him relevant to the plot, then I will be ok, but with what we got right now, there is no reason for him to last this long.

[Grimlock]

Gohan was portrayed as Goku's tag partner in the endings,

Since when openings and endings mean something? Surely they spoiled Vegeta's new power-up through it, but it was the only time that happened.

He is the goddamn son of the main character.

We can't use that argument in Dragon Ball. Unfortunately being the son, father, brother and etc mean nothing in this series. Otherwise Bardock, King Vegeta (probably their wives), Raditz, Tarble (and others) should get their proper treatment, but look what they do to them instead... If it wasn't for Xenoverse and Heroes (and Online being released in just a few countries), the fathers wouldn't even be remembered these days. That's a huge drawback in Dragon Ball but it is what it is, unfortunately.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with some of your statements even though I'm enjoying quite a lot Android 17's role in this saga.

[Lapislettuce]

Man, you fanboys are annoying. Gohan is my favorite character, but I don't go around saying "MY FAVORITE CHARACTER IS OBVIOUSLY GONNA OUTLAST A MUCH IMPORTANT CHARACTER IN THE STORY, OBVIOUSLY". If it was obvious that 17 would outlast Gohan, there wouldn't be so many pissed off fans out there and there would be, you know, SOME KIND OF BUILD UP to at least try to justify it. There wasn't ANY build up to justify #17 outlasting Gohan and staying in the ToP for so long. Gohan played a MUCH more important part in this whole saga, since the recruitment arc until the recent episodes. Gohan was portrayed as Goku's tag partner in the endings, was foreshadowed as Goku's equal in episode 118, was constantly teased to get a new form, displayed huge potential in episode 90 (Goku vs Gohan) and the most important factor: Gohan is a much more important character to the story of Dragon Ball. He is the goddamn son of the main character. He has a much more developed story on his back. He (and Goku) is (are) the main character(s) of Dragon Ball Z. He is a character with the potential to be the strongest.

I have nothing against 17, but his comeback sucked. It was basically "I was fighting against humans while protecting my island, so I'M GOD SSJ BLUE LEVEL NOW". It makes zero sense, specially because he was never important and never mentioned again since the Cell saga. His comeback was unnatural and forced because there was zero build up behind it. There was much more context, story and logic in Gohan's comeback than 17's. It was not obvious that 17 would outlast Gohan, that was just Toriyama trying to sell an old character that was not relevant for 5 sagas in exchange of a much more developed character, much more important to the story and with much more build up. You can argue all you want, but that's the truth. If TOEI chooses to devolp 17's character in the future and makes him relevant to the plot, then I will be ok, but with what we got right now, there is no reason for him to last this long.

So much salt, hypocrisy and illogical statements in this that i'm not even going to bother argue.

[VegettoEX]

Man, you fanboys are annoying. Gohan is my favorite character, but I don't go around saying "MY FAVORITE CHARACTER IS OBVIOUSLY GONNA OUTLAST A MUCH IMPORTANT CHARACTER IN THE STORY, OBVIOUSLY". If it was obvious that 17 would outlast Gohan, there wouldn't be so many pissed off fans out there and there would be, you know, SOME KIND OF BUILD UP to at least try to justify it. There wasn't ANY build up to justify #17 outlasting Gohan and staying in the ToP for so long. Gohan played a MUCH more important part in this whole saga, since the recruitment arc until the recent episodes. Gohan was portrayed as Goku's tag partner in the endings, was foreshadowed as Goku's equal in episode 118, was constantly teased to get a new form, displayed huge potential in episode 90 (Goku vs Gohan) and the most important factor: Gohan is a much more important character to the story of Dragon Ball. He is the goddamn son of the main character. He has a much more developed story on his back. He (and Goku) is (are) the main character(s) of Dragon Ball Z. He is a character with the potential to be the strongest.

I have nothing against 17, but his comeback sucked. It was basically "I was fighting against humans while protecting my island, so I'M GOD SSJ BLUE LEVEL NOW". It makes zero sense, specially because he was never important and never mentioned again since the Cell saga. His comeback was unnatural and forced because there was zero build up behind it. There was much more context, story and logic in Gohan's comeback than 17's. It was not obvious that 17 would outlast Gohan, that was just Toriyama trying to sell an old character that was not relevant for 5 sagas in exchange of a much more developed character, much more important to the story and with much more build up. You can argue all you want, but that's the truth. If TOEI chooses to devolp 17's character in the future and makes him relevant to the plot, then I will be ok, but with what we got right now, there is no reason for him to last this long.

So much salt, hypocrisy and illogical statements in this that i'm not even going to bother argue.

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[BlueBasilisk]

The problem with Rib is that she got a lot of scene time that didn't amount to much. Kale and Cali got a lot of scene time too, but the pay off was one of the best fights in Super even for people who hate the characters. Rib has nothing like that going for her.

It's really puzzling to me that Zirloin, Zarbuto and Rabanra got the big dramatic moment for U2 instead of Ribrianne. It was pretty funny for the unexpected twist, though. Felt like something Toriyama would have done. Maybe that was the point?

[dragon boss z]

I don't think it was obvious, but I don't mind it happening either. If Vegeta goes out before 17 I feel a lot of people will rage, lol. 17's infinite energy is definitely a big advantage to help him last long, but st this point I do think he is doing a bit too well. It really makes no sense for him to be able to fight Toppo at all. Imo he should be utalized more as a support character with him just spamming unlimited energy at someone as they are fighting someone else.

[CJStriker_CBR]

The problem with Rib is that she got a lot of scene time that didn't amount to much. Kale and Cali got a lot of scene time too, but the pay off was one of the best fights in Super even for people who hate the characters. Rib has nothing like that going for her.

It's really puzzling to me that Zirloin, Zarbuto and Rabanra got the big dramatic moment for U2 instead of Ribrianne. It was pretty funny for the unexpected twist, though. Felt like something Toriyama would have done. Maybe that was the point?

Their was Indeed a Major Point, a Brilliant one I may add BlueBasilisk, One that I should have seen coming myself before Episode 118 but did not. See ~~~~~ when one remembers the True~Persona and Ideals that All & I mean ALL the members of Universe 2 have, it really is not surprising at what happen to Zirloin, Zarbuto and Rabanra!

Indeed U2's Greatest Champions are the Magical Maidens and they are idealized for both their great level of power but also that they represent their ideals of Love and Companionship the most by what the story gave to us. That is the KEY to all of this, The Reason Why Zirloin, Zarbuto and Rabanra became so Important; U2's Ideals of Companionship!

Whey you get down to it Love is caring about the people around you care about the most, the members of U2 in the ToP where a team that above all other teams by how the story showed them to us, they Cared about each other and supported one another more then really ALL the other Teams in the ToP did ~~Combined~~ at Times. Their was always unity in their speeches, celebration of their ideals and support of each other to a very caring degree.

So with that, it makes easy sense towards WHY Zirloin, Zarbuto and Rabanra would become so important when they did.
They where the only ones left defending U2, with that U2 does what it does all the time;

They give support, as much as they can, AKA = To~~All the Love they can give to their Friends and Teammates they have left on the field of battle to defend Their Universe 2 and their people, their people we clearly saw watching the events of the ToP all the Time!

When Brianne was sadly eliminated, her 1st action in Episode 118 was to Rally her universe to the cause of supporting Zirloin, Zarbuto and Rabanra, the last fighters of U2, to give them all the support in their power of Unity, AKA Power~of~Love that she and U2 could. All the way in lending even Brianne cheering theme on to do the Spell that gave them the powers of the Maidens themselves! This Support and Belief was so Strong they achieve the Lovely Black Hole technique that even the Maidens never did before, but still all U2 cared about was that their friends achieve this threw their ideals and defending U2 with all they had!

So really Everything about why Zirloin, Zarbuto and Rabanra where made so Important by last battle of U2 by the Writers stays in easy Flow of the Story of Who Universe 2 has always been about.

For HeroR's concern that not much was Given to Ribrianne in her Screentime and Toei left her with not much, that did not happen in the least at all my friend to worry about.

Toei gave use a Nice beginning detailed background on who Ribrianne is and the strength of her ideals and her importance to her Universe. No other Mortal Fighter in all of the Multiverse is Considered as the Goddess of their Universe! She is not only their Champion but it seems in U2 Eye's their Highest Ideal Person their is, in that U2's ideal of Love and Protecting their Happiness.

Ribrianne was also in Episode 111 one of the ONLY characters to make reference on the Consequences of Losing the ToP, how deeply troubled she was over that possibility at that time and showing that with all they are giving in the ToP, they can still loss and loss all they hold dear. It was a clarifying moment that I felt more characters in the ToP needed to have more moments of realization like this.

We also saw a character that even at her moment of clearest defeat she used that moment to learn about new ideals of love to better themselves going forward, showing her character is willing to change for the betterment of herself and her ideals.

Finally too as I pointed out, we learnd of her williness that even when she we elimated, the idol of her Unviese, her main care was about her People, Teamates and Doing everything left she could to protect those in support all her teammates left in the Arena!

In Fights we got to see Impressive matchs, short yes, but she showed an Impressive level of Power when taking on SSJ-Vegeta, 17 and Goku. Storywise each where impressed with her Strenght and even other GoD's like Liquiir where impressed by such showings of power and Ribrianne was a fighter not easy to put down. Android 18 achieved a New level of power and using her love of her Family to achieve this new level threw her encounters with Brianne, that fleshed out both Brianne and 18 as better characters that grew from their experiances with each other.

These where moments just like you found with Kale and Cali's last fight that payed off for them, THESE moments I mentioned when reading around parts of the net Really Payed Off for Brianne and U2. They gain a decent amount of Respect and had many considered one of the Best Episodes in the ToP Arc that Fleshed them out really well, that being Episode 118!

I know in the end Ribrianne was not at the Mega New Levels that Goku UI, Toppo GoD or Jiren are at, but we must honestly be Honest with ourselves that THAT level of power is always a Very Selective Group to be in, one only a few are allowed to be at a time.

Ribrianne still had a Good showing of power with what context I said before, but more important had moments that fleshed out her character and grew her in what we saw in the story. Finally, NO DB character's power stays fixed, if Toei is indeed serious about using Brianne going forward she will likely get stronger as well and I think honest the ToP held her back abit for whatever reasons but they where more focused on fleshing Brianne out as a character, THAT IMO is more important that Power Levels any-day.

Again I wanted much more, but what we got was more Golden then I think we breeze over to easy at time, their is much substance in all that went into Brianne that fleshed out the beginnings of an interesting and important character in the DB Mythos.

[GohanHiddenPowers]

[spoiler]

They would have to give him a power up at that point even if it was a temp rage boost

Dragon Ball Super brought back old tropes and things from DB/DBZ (minus the oozaru transformations, or even the tails), and Gohan's rage boosts were always the most powerful, happening in the most impossible situations, against powerful oponents:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n0q3ACX88Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2vKGOTi7sI

And Caba, Vegeta, and other characters had these moments with that "conquering new powers because we need to save something/someone" trope, and Gohan... none. Not even a litle. Gohan could help to do something against someone like Toppo, even if he is not trained to do something bigger, like defeat an oponent like this alone, for now, like when he fought Cell and Buu. But he could have done something better than eliminating himself with Dyspo (someone who will be a nobody, that no one will remember, after some good years). He deserved something more memorable.

[/spoiler]

An opinion from another thread about the characters we are discussing in this thread. And, well, if i'm not mistaken, it's "obvious" that this character, Android 17, is a favourite of one of the DBS producers, right? This puts lucky on the table, too. Some could come up with this unlimited stamina argument, and i would come up with that argument of the storyline as a whole (taking into account DBZ; canon movies/ovas, and even the movies/ovas that are not canon exactly, but were productions that gave us great moments; and then, DBS), which would favor such characters as Gohan, and even Freeza (and the spoilers, for sure, have a possible combination of the three finalists that could bring more of that "anti-climax" feeling to the discussion). Because, if it is that way, if it continues like this, even Jiren could be in danger against Dr. Maki Gero's invention. Great, right? Well, that's subjective, for sure. People can think what they want along with a majority or minority who thinks the same way. But everything changes if this series has a future, in the medium and long term, after this "hiatus". I just think that this anime should have brought the best DBZ concepts (th serious and humorous tone, at the same time) together with DB's adventurous tone. Thus, we would have really shocking and memorable moments, with historic soundtracks, with the best characters, and not only with Goku and Vegeta, and some character with momentary lucky...

ps: sorry for any mistake, english is not my natural language.