Vegeta's participation was satisfactory in ToP?

[Miracles]

It was ok. i wanted to see interaction between Vegeta and Kale/Caulifla. Also, a fight would be cool too.

Yeah, I thought Vegeta having no interaction with Caulifla and Kale was odd. You'd think the one who has pride in his Saiyan heritage would be the mentor for all those youngsters.

But Toriyama gave Goku the mentor role for the more gifted Saiyan females and gave the lesser gifted to Vegeta in Cabba. Guess Toriyama likes poking fun at Vegeta even in the next generation.

[Black Hawk]

I feel the same. Vegeta's not even close to being my favorite character, but I feel he was long overdue for some big powerup to call his own. I didn't like the way the anime handled the power gap between him and Goku and felt Vegeta should've done more to close that gap like he constantly did in the manga. Like I previously mentioned, I love how the manga is handling Vegeta. Sure he's still number 2, but he's never way outclassed and catches up quickly.

On that topic, I've seen many complaints about how the manga keeps Gokū and Vegeta at the same level or only has Gokū surpass Vegeta briefly before Vegeta catches up and doesn't take enough risks in separating their power and giving them different transformations, but I love that the manga does this. Not only does it keep things consistent and easy to understand, especially from a Saiyajin physiology perspective, but it also shows that, despite being born a low-class Saiyajin, Gokū equals Vegeta in power and abilities, and, despite not receiving the assistance that Gokū does, Vegeta equals Gokū in power and abilities. It makes me like both of their characters and traits a lot more. Despite how groovy and impressive it was, SSJ Blue Kaiōken was a huge turn-off to me because it's something Vegeta can't match without separating him from Gokū; I know lots of people love that the anime did that, but, to me, its execution was not very good. I'm not saying it was impossible for the concept to be good (I bet it could have been incredibly well-done), but the way it turned out just disappointed me so much.

I hope so too. I'm looking forward to Toyotaro's ToP, with slight reservations. My only reservations are that he might speed through it too quickly and miss some great opportunities for character moments. So I don't exactly know what to expect, but I'm hopeful. And that's very true about the anime voice talent. Sometimes I feel that they don't get enough credit. Voice performances have been consistently good throughout the show. For me, nothing beats Zamasu and Goku Black. I feel like the Future Trunks arc spoiled me there. I often have the same conundrum between the anime and manga. Overall, I'd say I liked the anime version of the Future Trunks arc more, thanks to vocal performances and how big it felt. Somehow the manga version ended up feeling smaller to me, while the anime had this grandiose feel, but I preferred how the manga version of events were less mind numbing. Less time machine spamming and whatnot.

I am a little bit worried about Toyotarō's Tournament of Power, but I'm significantly more optimistic than I am worried. If he takes his time and goes at the pace he's done his best work at, knowing how big a fan of Dragon Ball in general he is, I think the final product will be amazing. On the topic of how incredible the voices are, as I read through the manga, I actually hear the character voices in my mind. It makes the manga even more enjoyable to me. With regard to the Zero Mortals Plan, that was the first arc of the anime that I really liked; the first three arcs kind of disappointed me, especially when compared to the movies and manga, but the story of the Zero Mortals Plan really made up for the details I didn't like in the anime. It was genuinely enjoyable for me to watch, and I'd say it's probably my favorite arc in all of Super.

[BWri]

On that topic, I've seen many complaints about how the manga keeps Gokū and Vegeta at the same level or only has Gokū surpass Vegeta briefly before Vegeta catches up and doesn't take enough risks in separating their power and giving them different transformations, but I love that the manga does this. Not only does it keep things consistent and easy to understand, especially from a Saiyajin physiology perspective, but it also shows that, despite being born a low-class Saiyajin, Gokū equals Vegeta in power and abilities, and, despite not receiving the assistance that Gokū does, Vegeta equals Gokū in power and abilities. It makes me like both of their characters and traits a lot more. Despite how groovy and impressive it was, SSJ Blue Kaiōken was a huge turn-off to me because it's something Vegeta can't match without separating him from Gokū; I know lots of people love that the anime did that, but, to me, its execution was not very good. I'm not saying it was impossible for the concept to be good (I bet it could have been incredibly well-done), but the way it turned out just disappointed me so much.

I 100% agree with everything in that statement. I can understand those who say that the manga doesn't take enough risks in that regard. SSBKK felt very exciting when it suddenly appeared, but also frustrating, because I feel it's the perfect catalyst to get those in the cast without transformations to a competent level, especially those who already got to train with King Kai. Tien was there longer than anyone, but its used to stack more power on top of Goku in such an extreme way. I personally felt very excited for FP SSB as well, because it was the perfect fruition of Whis' training. I like both in different ways, but the manga's portrayal of FP SSB and the logic behind it gives it the edge to me. It's so good in so many different ways. Like you say, its easy to understand and consistent.

I will say that I am a fan of Saiyans figuring out unique branches to their transformations. If the show is going to rely on them (which I'm not a fan of) then I'd prefer some of them be unique or character specific. I just prefer logic and consistency more.

I am a little bit worried about Toyotarō's Tournament of Power, but I'm significantly more optimistic than I am worried. If he takes his time and goes at the pace he's done his best work at, knowing how big a fan of Dragon Ball in general he is, I think the final product will be amazing. On the topic of how incredible the voices are, as I read through the manga, I actually hear the character voices in my mind. It makes the manga even more enjoyable to me. With regard to the Zero Mortals Plan, that was the first arc of the anime that I really liked; the first three arcs kind of disappointed me, especially when compared to the movies and manga, but the story of the Zero Mortals Plan really made up for the details I didn't like in the anime. It was genuinely enjoyable for me to watch, and I'd say it's probably my favorite arc in all of Super.

That's awesome! I wish I could hear the voice cast while I read the manga. I feel the exact same about the first three arcs. I usually say that the U6 tournament was meh at best, but really it was even more subpar to me when I think of it. It could've been much much more if it wasn't handicapped so badly (weak enemies, weak Piccolo and very little of him, no Gohan, no Buu, U6 Saiyans didn't know about Super Saiyan). In hindsight, it's almost like someone challenged Toriyama to write a good arc with those handicaps. For me, the Zero Mortals Plan was where I officially could call myself a fan of the series. I skipped the previous mini-arc in its entirety due to how frustrated I was with the series, but that arc brought me back with a vengeance. Even with all the errors, plotholes, and that insane ending, the Future Trunks/Goku Black/Zero Mortals arc was still my favorite arc in the show. It's one of my favorites in the entire series, which says a lot because I'm not the biggest fan of Saiyan characters.

[Black Hawk]

I 100% agree with everything in that statement. I can understand those who say that the manga doesn't take enough risks in that regard. SSBKK felt very exciting when it suddenly appeared, but also frustrating, because I feel it's the perfect catalyst to get those in the cast without transformations to a competent level, especially those who already got to train with King Kai. Tien was there longer than anyone, but its used to stack more power on top of Goku in such an extreme way. I personally felt very excited for FP SSB as well, because it was the perfect fruition of Whis' training. I like both in different ways, but the manga's portrayal of FP SSB and the logic behind it gives it the edge to me. It's so good in so many different ways. Like you say, its easy to understand and consistent.

I will say that I am a fan of Saiyans figuring out unique branches to their transformations. If the show is going to rely on them (which I'm not a fan of) then I'd prefer some of them be unique or character specific. I just prefer logic and consistency more.

I feel like Yamcha, Kurilin, Tianjinfan, and Jiaozi not having learned the Kaiōken has been a huge missed opportunity through most of the series; having them capable of becoming as much as twenty times stronger would have kept them at least semi-relevant for at least a while, maybe up until Gohan-kun became a Super Saiyajin 2. Having it be exclusive to Gokū, left behind in favor of Super Saiyajin, and then brought back in such a disappointing and ineffective way (thus writing Toei into a corner) turned the Kaiōken into such a waste, especially how considering how amazing it had been against the likes of Vegeta, Ginyū, and Freeza.

With regard to Full Power SSJ Blue, I'd have to say that's one of my favorite concepts and forms in all of Dragon Ball; after SSJ3 was never mastered due it its downsides, it was really refreshing to see a form with drawbacks mastered to make it even more powerful. I do love that Gokū and Vegeta are consistently equal in forms, power, abilities, etc. in the manga, and that kind of ties into how I feel about Saiyajin physiology; I'd prefer for Gokū and Vegeta, as the only fullbloods left, to remain equal in just about every regard. Gohan-kun is where I'd like to see the differences come in, especially with regard to his Ultimate state/form; its extension and continuation could take Saiyajin physiology in a different direction and make things really interesting. I'm still holding out hope that either the manga or a new series might take this idea somewhere.

That's awesome! I wish I could hear the voice cast while I read the manga. I feel the exact same about the first three arcs. I usually say that the U6 tournament was meh at best, but really it was even more subpar to me when I think of it. It could've been much much more if it wasn't handicapped so badly (weak enemies, weak Piccolo and very little of him, no Gohan, no Buu, U6 Saiyans didn't know about Super Saiyan). In hindsight, it's almost like someone challenged Toriyama to write a good arc with those handicaps. For me, the Zero Mortals Plan was where I officially could call myself a fan of the series. I skipped the previous mini-arc in its entirety due to how frustrated I was with the series, but that arc brought me back with a vengeance. Even with all the errors, plotholes, and that insane ending, the Future Trunks/Goku Black/Zero Mortals arc was still my favorite arc in the show. It's one of my favorites in the entire series, which says a lot because I'm not the biggest fan of Saiyan characters.

I sort of view the Tournament of Destroyers as a setup of sorts, both for the Zero Mortals Plan and the Tournament of Power, more than anything else; we get a preview of how a tournament between universes is on a much smaller scale, which sets up well for the Tournament of Power, and we see Gokū and Vegeta regain their previous forms, gain a new aura for SSJ Blue, and gain a limitation in that SSJ Blue can't be used repetitively, which sets up well for the completion of Full Power SSJ Blue during the Zero Mortals Plan. I have a hard time looking at it as anything more than that, though; after two full-length films and before two full-length story arcs, we get a sort of in-between-quel to set up for what's coming next without being very extravagant, which kind of creates excitement but also sort of makes the arc lackluster, particularly the lack of Gohan-kun and Piccolo.

To be honest, I love the Zero Mortals Plan even more than I ordinarily do when I read it immediately after the Tournament of Destroyers because it reminds me of what steps Gokū and Vegeta took in order to be able to take SSJ Blue to new levels and even make use of SSJ Red. On its own, I find the Tournament of Destroyers rather lackluster, but, coupled with the Zero Mortals Plan, I like both more than I do either one alone.

[Olympian]

Well, he lasted up until towards the end didn`t he?

That`s more than almost anyone in the cast.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

It was ok. i wanted to see interaction between Vegeta and Kale/Caulifla. Also, a fight would be cool too.

Yeah, I thought Vegeta having no interaction with Caulifla and Kale was odd. You'd think the one who has pride in his Saiyan heritage would be the mentor for all those youngsters.

But Toriyama gave Goku the mentor role for the more gifted Saiyan females and gave the lesser gifted to Vegeta in Cabba. Guess Toriyama likes poking fun at Vegeta even in the next generation.

Hmm, yeah, I also would have liked that. Odd indeed.