Goku won't defeat Jiren alone [My theory]

[Mercenary]

The thing is - everyone from the last survivors HAS to get his chance to shine ALONE, so let's analyse it:

#17 : He was the main key to defeat Amiraza/Amilaza, still gonna get his own episode and probably will do something really really impressive. Not to mention him defeating Kakunsa, Vikal etc. He got a lot of spotlight and survived 'till the late game. Enough.

Frieza: Also got a bunch of eliminations, his own episode with Frost, elliminated Gohan & Dyspo and still has his own hidden agenda, survived 'till the very end (most likely). He won't obviously beat Jiren, but he can do something sneaky etc. Also enough.

Goku: Hogging the spotlight basically in every tournament episode and also in the recruitment saga (pre-tournament saga), got really powerful UI and his own 1-hour special, defeated really powerful fusion - Kefla and has the most elimations along with Vegeta.

Vegeta: Until his fight with Toppo he didn't really do much. I mean, sure he got a bunch of eliminations but they were total fodders. Along with Goku has the biggest amount of eliminations IIRC.

So, taking this all into consideration :

Who will defeat Jiren ? - Both Goku & Vegeta

Why?

Goku is the main hero, so it's obvious no one can take the biggest piece of cake from him. BUT - Vegeta did have MUCH LESS screentime and has really important promise to fulfill, while Goku....is just being Goku and doesn't really care about reviving the others as long as he can get a good fight.

I am not saying Vegeta will get UI (although him being shirtless can indicate it and UI is what he was aiming for since the very beginning), but he surely will contribute to Jiren's downfall and Goku won't beat Jiren alone.

I just want to remind you about that cool Vegeta's episode from Toshio which still has to air.

What do you think?

[SsjRavi]

Goku and doesn't really care about reviving the others as long as he can get a good fight

I don't agree with this, sure he is laid back and is obsessed with fighting/getting stronger but time and time again he has shown his sympathy towards others, even as a child he selflessly used the Dragon Balls to revive Bora for Upa's sake.

I think it is possible that Vegeta could contribute to the defeat of Jiren similar to stalling for time against Kid Buu but in typical Dragon Ball fashion Goku will be the one to deal the final blow, 17 has done his fair share in this tournament so I don't imagine he will stay in for much longer and Freeza is still a wild card.

[Mercenary]

Goku and doesn't really care about reviving the others as long as he can get a good fight

I don't agree with this, sure he is laid back and is obsessed with fighting/getting stronger but time and time again he has shown his sympathy towards others, even as a child he selflessly used the Dragon Balls to revive Bora for Upa's sake.

I think it is possible that Vegeta could contribute to the defeat of Jiren similar to stalling for time against Kid Buu but in typical Dragon Ball fashion Goku will be the one to deal the final blow, 17 has done his fair share in this tournament so I don't imagine he will stay in for much longer and Freeza is still a wild card.

That's also possible. I've just meant that Goku won't do it completely alone. Like against Frieza in the Namek Saga for example.

[Freezerbaby]

Herms on twitter pointed out that in the final shot showing jiren,goku,vegeta and 17, freeza is cleverly disguised as the rock of the upper left corner, if you think about it, toriyama´s outline for him seems to be remaining hidden to do something relevant during the final fight against jiren, he did nothing in this episode and if he hadn´t appeared things would remain the same.

My theory is that internet was filled with theories about him winning because him remaining unconscious and forgotten on that rock after the beating he took from toppo, the writers knew that and made him appear in this episode to make people discard that theory but at the end his state is pretty much the same and now everyone is forgetting about him being around as the spotlight is focused on the other four.

So I think that UI goku or vegito plus freeza doing something( or doing nothing plus time running out) will be the final key to defeat Jiren.

[Mercenary]

Herms on twitter pointed out that in the final shot showing jiren,goku,vegeta and 17, freeza is cleverly disguised as the rock of the upper left corner, if you think about it, toriyama´s outline for him seems to be remaining hidden to do something relevant during the final fight against jiren, he did nothing in this episode and if he hadn´t appeared things would remain the same.

My theory is that internet was filled with theories about him winning because him remaining unconscious and forgotten in that rock after the beating he took from toppo, the writers knew that and made him appear in this episode to make people discard that theory but at the end his state is pretty much the same and now everyone is forgetting about him being around as the spotlight is focused on the other four.

So I think that UI goku or vegito plus freeza doing something( or doing nothing plus time running out) will be the final key to defeat Jiren.

Either Vegito or just Goku & Vegeta working together like they've been doing since ep.122 at least.

[Kanious]

Goku defeating Jiren (at least by strenght) alone would be the worst scenario possible in my opinion.

I hope your theory is correct... or a fusion... or a draw, or anything else except one single character defeating Jiren by being stronger

[Mercenary]

Goku defeating Jiren (at least by strenght) alone would be the worst scenario possible in my opinion.

I hope your theory is correct... or a fusion... or a draw, or anything else except one single character defeating Jiren by being stronger

Thanks man, but don't worry.


Goku beating Jiren all alone is really unlikely to happen.

[Benedetto12]

He will beat him alongside Vegeta.

17 will get defeated and knocked out next chapter, Freeza will try to do something stupid to either Goku or Vegeta, Jiren will notice this and will knock him out (Showing that he is a honourable fighter, not like Toppo) then the full fight will end with UI Goku and Beyond Blue Vegeta finally fighting synchronized like Whis used to say.

[Nero<>Akira]

It needs to be fusion or time limit or Jiren willingly letting them win. Goku winning is stupid. he can't win even with UI.

[MajinVegetaPD]

I honestly see a cheap Freeza victory happening.

He'll either be hiding out till the end, or take advantage of the situation by knocking off the last few fighters in some cheap manner.

Whatever it'll be, it won't be Goku alone. Even with a supposed "perfected UI", Jiren has shown that his power is far above anything we've seen so far.

[Mercenary]

I honestly see a cheap Freeza victory happening.

He'll either be hiding out till the end, or take advantage of the situation by knocking off the last few fighters in some cheap manner.

Whatever it'll be, it won't be Goku alone. Even with a supposed "perfected UI", Jiren has shown that his power is far above anything we've seen so far.

That's what I'm talking about.

It would take either Mastered UI Goku and Beyond SSB Vegeta or either Mastered UI Goku and Mastered UI Vegeta.


But the first option is more possible. Unless Vegeta finds a way to stack his new form on the top of UI but he would be too powerful.

[Avenant]

I really hope that Frieza wins because everyone forgot he was there. That would he amazing!

[ZenkaiBoosts]

Goku defeating Jiren (at least by strenght) alone would be the worst scenario possible in my opinion.

I hope your theory is correct... or a fusion... or a draw, or anything else except one single character defeating Jiren by being stronger

Gokuu defeating Jiren 1 vs 1 is the only way they can save Super and end on the highest note possible

There hasnt been an epic 1 v 1 in Dragon Ball in a long time. All this team stuff has been nice, but now its getting over done and becoming repetitive. We are due for an epic Goku vs Jiren 1vs 1 to end eveything. Lets bring it back to the basics now and a callback to that epic Goku vs Fireza 1 v 1. Lets have a modern day version of that with Goku vs Jiren 1 v1



Here are THE WORST possible outcomes that would RUIN the ending of Super


-Vegeta stays and continues to fight.

Vegeta far out lasted his worth and already had his epic farewell moment. He needs to be eliminated soon. If Vegeta stays then episode 126 (and Vegeta's big win) ALL MEANT nothing. Vegeta never risked anything. If Vegeta doesnt get eliminated then it ruins his charactization that was built up to eposide 126


- They do fusion

I'm tired of fusion. Its been nothing but a crutch. Super ending with fusion IS the worst least satisfying way they can end it. Goku needs to defeat Jiren 1 vs 1 all on his own via learning and rising to the occasion. That would also make the most sense considering Super has been trying to tell us that smarts>>>brute strength

We have already gotten hints that fusion isnt happening. Berus or Whis are heavily opposed to it because theres a risk of 2 fighters being eliminated at once. The numbers game is important to U7 so theres NO logically way they do fusion and risk losing the numbers


I hope Vegeta gets eliminated next week so we can kill 2 birds with 1 stone. With no more Vegeta non sense there can be no more fusion non sense

[ZenkaiBoosts]

Goku winning is stupid. he can't win even with UI.

This is nothing but your headcanon.

Goku getting UI for the first time was just a beginer, like a toddler first riding the metaphorical UI bike, and yet he was still a big enough threat to make Jiren power up to his red aura

Goku is comtinually learning.

The second time Goku got UI, Goku grew in strength.

The third time Goku gets it, Goku will be even stronger

Toppo HIMSELF WARNED Jiren. "Son Goku grows stronger"

That was ominous forshadowing. Omen UI Goku is going to be equal if not slightly superior to Jiren...and once Goku matches Jiren, Goku's fight intelligence (fight IQ) and martial arts knowledge will outclass Jiren

Think of it like this, the 3rd time Goku gets UI he will be like a tour de france bike rider riding the metaphorical bike of UI.

Remember when UI Omen Goku was first teased, the promo material said "the techniques of the gods will be mastered"...

Meaning UI Omen Goku is going to be a whole other animal even above Jiren

[ZenkaiBoosts]

Even with a supposed "perfected UI", Jiren has shown that his power is far above anything we've seen so far.

We only saw beginers UI Goku

We havent seen Goku's UI Omen form and how powerful it will be.

The 2nd time Goku got UI, Toppo himself said Goku was much stronger and sharper then when he fought Jiren.

Toppo then WARNED Jiren, "Son Goku continues to grow stronger"....Toppo knows about Jiren's full power yet when Toppo saw Goku get UI for the 2nd time, Toppo felt strongly enough to.still warn Jiren of Goku....Thats very telling.....why do people in this thread keep ignoring that forshadowing? Every time Goku gets UI he gets significantly stronger "Be careful Jiren. You shouldve finished Goku when you had the chance"

[MKCSTEALTH]

I think a possible scenario could even be Frieza. 17 and Vegeta have all had times to shine, but Frieza has yet to really do anything of significance. And if Dragonball Heroes is any hint (which it has been in the past somewhat), we could see Frieza and Goku vs Jiren

[Kanious]

There hasnt been an epic 1 v 1 in Dragon Ball in a long time. All this team stuff has been nice, but now its getting over done and becoming repetitive. We are due for an epic Goku vs Jiren 1vs 1 to end eveything. Lets bring it back to the basics now and a callback to that epic Goku vs Fireza 1 v 1. Lets have a modern day version of that with Goku vs Jiren 1 v1

The thing is: UI Goku appear to be faaaaaaaaaar weaker than Jiren when he was using a fraction of his power. Even if Goku masters the UI against FULL POWER Jiren, it would need a big, massive, HISTORIC asspull to be in the same level or stronger, an asspull that we never saw before. Also it would be weird to have a giant, massive difference of power between unmastered and mastered UI.

I think that Jiren losing for Goku on a 1v1 battle of STRENGHT/POWER would kill the series. I would be ok if Goku wins by being SMARTER, and STRATEGIC. They can win by having more people, and without defeating Jiren too.

Jiren is not a villain like Freeza, and this is not a battle between "good" and "evil", and Super WILL end without Goku winning against a major villain. Even if Goku wins against Jiren, it will be nothing like DBZ times because the circunstances are totally different.

[ZenkaiBoosts]

There hasnt been an epic 1 v 1 in Dragon Ball in a long time. All this team stuff has been nice, but now its getting over done and becoming repetitive. We are due for an epic Goku vs Jiren 1vs 1 to end eveything. Lets bring it back to the basics now and a callback to that epic Goku vs Fireza 1 v 1. Lets have a modern day version of that with Goku vs Jiren 1 v1

The thing is: UI Goku appear to be faaaaaaaaaar weaker than Jiren when he was using a fraction of his power. Even if Goku masters the UI against FULL POWER Jiren, it would need a big, massive, HISTORIC asspull to be in the same level or stronger, an asspull that we never saw before. Also it would be weird to have a giant, massive difference of power between unmastered and mastered UI.

I think that Jiren losing for Goku on a 1v1 battle of STRENGHT/POWER would kill the series. I would be ok if Goku wins by being SMARTER, and STRATEGIC. They can win by having more people, and without defeating Jiren too.

Jiren is not a villain like Freeza, and this is not a battle between "good" and "evil", and Super WILL end without Goku winning against a major villain. Even if Goku wins against Jiren, it will be nothing like DBZ times because the circunstances are totally different.

Yeah no, the thing is thats just your headcannon. Read my other posts.

Goku gaining UI for the first time ever was just a beginer. He was a baby and yet he still was a big enough threat to make Jiren power up to his red aura

People in this thread seem to be conveniently ignoring how that first fight with Jiren ended

As Goku more started to get the hang of UI, he was growing in strength - the more he attacked Jiren the stronger he grew, and suddenly he let out a fierce roar as he knee'd Jiren and then smacked Jiren back down to the ground. This threat made Jiren POWER UP. And then Goku's UI simply ran out before Goku could follow up

Super has CLEARLY been showing and forshadowing that the more Goku fights Jiren the more Goku pushes himself and the stronger Goku gets - the more Goku attains UI, the stronger Goku gets

TOPPO himself EVEN WARNED Jiren

"Son Goku continues to grow stronger"

Toppo knows Jiren's full power. The fact Toppo STILL got scared of UI Goku, and warned Jiren, SAYS EVERYTHING

I get it. You love Vegeta. But at this point its like you are purposely ignoring all the tell tale signs. You desperately want Vegeta to be a part of Jiren's elimination. SORRY that aint happening

Super (this arc) has been about Goku breaking through his shell, and everything has clearly been forshadowing Goku pushing himself to his limits and surpassing Jiren

Goku defeating Jiren 1 v 1 is the best way Super can end - and the most logical, narratively i.s this last arc has been about Goku pushing himself and surpassing his limits, that he himself didnt even think was possible

You want to talk about a real asspull. Thats Vegeta's new "blue form" just so Vegeta could artifically compete with Goku and Jiren and get an artificial big win

If they can give Vegeta an asspull win, then they sure as hell can give Goku a LOGICAL, forshadowed 1 vs 1 win over Jiren


Vegeta being apart of the ending would RUIN Super


In fact its even far more logical for a knocked out Frieza to give U7 the win in the event of a Omen Goku vs full power Jiren draw...

All though in that scenario Goku and Jiren CAN NOT eliminate each other. They simply need to be fighting dead even until time simply runs out...and then a knocked out Frieza who was forgotten gives U7 the win on numbers

However based on everything - and based on what fans want, ITS GONNA BE Goku vs Jiren 1 vs 1 for all the marbles (and to create the most tension). Be prepared because Omen Goku is likely defeating Jiren 1 vs 1

They wouldnt give Vegeta an asspull win, if Goku wasnt going to be the one defeat Jiren 1 v 1

[Kanious]

As Goku more started to get the hang of UI, he was growing in strength - the more he attacked Jiren the stronger he grew, and suddenly he let out a fierce roar as he knee'd Jiren and then smacked Jiren back down to the ground. This threat made Jiren POWER UP. And then Goku's UI simply ran out before Goku could follow up

Super has CLEARLY been showing and forshadowing that the more Goku fights Jiren the more Goku pushes himself and the stronger Goku gets - the more Goku attains UI, the stronger Goku gets

TOPPO himself EVEN WARNED Jiren

"Son Goku continues to grow stronger"

Toppo knows Jiren's full power. The fact Toppo STILL got scared of UI Goku, and warned Jiren, SAYS EVERYTHING

I get it. You love Vegeta. But at this point its like you are purposely ignoring all the tell tale signs. You desperately want Vegeta to be a part of Jiren's elimination. SORRY that aint happening

i think you got the wrong idea. I saw Goku vs Jiren and UI Goku vs Jiren seemed that Jiren was 100% in control of the situation. Vegeta, and even Goku after that appeared to fight better against Jiren than whem he was UI in his first fight. Oh, and you probably know that forshadowing mean NOTHING in DBS, for most of the time.

My opinion has nothing to do with Vegeta or my bias toward him. As I said my problem is Goku (or any other character, i would be mad even if Vegeta, my favorite character won by strenght) getting to the same level or stronger than Jiren, i think i said that clearly at least 2 times in this discussion. It may happen, Goku will likely become stronger than Jiren. and if it happens i'll be really disappointed, both for Jiren being thrashed, and for a character getting the biggest asspull in the whole franchise that will seem like a infinite multiplier of the unmastered UI form, and probably i'll begin to dislike Goku more than i dislike DBZ Gohan, but life goes on, it's just an anime.

Now that we know that Vegeta will be out soon, i'll be cheering for a draw, win by some strategy, or for having more people in the arena, or even for Jiren's victory.

[Arugela]

Considering Vegeta is the only one that has a wish we know in detail, and still in the tournament, it would make sense he might be MVP in the end.(Besides Freeza.)

In fact it might make sense given how he was potentially stronger in GT.. Maybe it's a lead up to GT's oddities.