Vegeta will receive the Kid Boo treatment again... very original

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Re: Vegeta will receive the Kid Boo treatment again... very original

Post by JazzMazz » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:00 pm

TBMx wrote:If Vegeta doesn't get Ultra Instinct despite undergoing the same training, I think we can all agree that UI for Goku has nothing to do with Whis' training and is a complete asspull? Especially mastering it when there's no indication that Vegeta will ever get the UI Omen even. And considering millions of years old gods haven't mastered it.
It wasn't Goku's training that allowed him to reach the form, it was the fact he fell into his own gigantic spirit bomb as it exploded that allowed him to pull it off. Also, and I think this is important, Vegeta has literally zero interest in getting Ultra Instinct at this very moment, his accepted that as something that Goku can have. This makes a lot more sense now because Vegeta has now gotten his own limit breaking ability and used that ability to defeat a God of Destruction. This new form for Vegeta is a testimony to him wanting to power-up in his own unique way.

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Re: Vegeta will receive the Kid Boo treatment again... very original

Post by TBMx » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:02 pm

JazzMazz wrote:
TBMx wrote:If Vegeta doesn't get Ultra Instinct despite undergoing the same training, I think we can all agree that UI for Goku has nothing to do with Whis' training and is a complete asspull? Especially mastering it when there's no indication that Vegeta will ever get the UI Omen even. And considering millions of years old gods haven't mastered it.
It wasn't Goku's training that allowed him to reach the form, it was the fact he fell into his own gigantic spirit bomb as it exploded that allowed him to pull it off. Also, and I think this is important, Vegeta has literally zero interest in getting Ultra Instinct at this very moment, his accepted that as something that Goku can have. This makes a lot more sense now because Vegeta has now gotten his own limit breaking ability and used that ability to defeat a God of Destruction. This new form for Vegeta is a testimony to him wanting to power-up in his own unique way.
He only has zero interest because he can't do it.

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Re: Vegeta will receive the Kid Boo treatment again... very original

Post by MajinVegetaPD » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:17 pm

TBMx wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:
TBMx wrote:If Vegeta doesn't get Ultra Instinct despite undergoing the same training, I think we can all agree that UI for Goku has nothing to do with Whis' training and is a complete asspull? Especially mastering it when there's no indication that Vegeta will ever get the UI Omen even. And considering millions of years old gods haven't mastered it.
It wasn't Goku's training that allowed him to reach the form, it was the fact he fell into his own gigantic spirit bomb as it exploded that allowed him to pull it off. Also, and I think this is important, Vegeta has literally zero interest in getting Ultra Instinct at this very moment, his accepted that as something that Goku can have. This makes a lot more sense now because Vegeta has now gotten his own limit breaking ability and used that ability to defeat a God of Destruction. This new form for Vegeta is a testimony to him wanting to power-up in his own unique way.
He only has zero interest because he can't do it.
You are saying this like Vegeta is a real person? The writers decide who gets what , you understand this, right?. If the plot called for it, Vegeta would have UI regardless if you "think" he can or should achieve it. It's clear the writers wanted Vegeta in that moment to not care about chasing Goku anymore, to walk his own path. This was a great line and moment for Vegeta, and hopefully it continues in the future, breaking his limits on his own accord, not worrying about Goku anymore.

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Re: Vegeta will receive the Kid Boo treatment again... very original

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:22 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:Considering how much Vegeta has busted his ass and went out of his way to get stronger throughout the show, couple with his immeasurable determination to not fall behind, something he reinforced in literally the second episode of the show, I feel Vegeta brute forcing his way to a form and defeating essentially a Hakaishin feels very much thematically appropriate for his character. Especially in an event like the Tournament Of Power. He's gotten quite a lot of good treatment in the tournament, so I don't really feel that he has received or will receive the "Kid Boo treatment". He's made a huge difference in the Tournament Of Power, is now level pegging with SSJB Kaioken, and it taking on the strongest mortal in the history of Dragon Ball with nothing but willpower. I'd say this is best treated Vegeta has ever been in an isolated story arc in Dragon Ball.
So you like the fact that Vegeta is beaten and destroyed by Jiren in his base form without being able to do anything in his last battle?

I'm not talking about your participation during the tournament, but specifically about your last effort.
Why does it need to be a reference to fighting Kid Boo? Why do we have to see Vegeta throughout the episode being defeated by Jiren without even being able to do anything?

After that we know that none of this will do any good, because Goku will simply get up and defeat Jiren alone.
Nero<>Akira wrote:Seriously... What do you want? lol I'm sure you don't even know the answer to that question like many other.

Vegeta is arguably on Goku's level at full power (still). He ascended to another level of Super Saiyan God (very appropriate when you contrast Goku's achievements.. and a NEW LEVEL OF GOD!). He became so strong that he could outdo Destruction Energy and beat a low tier GoD. He didn't even have to use his life energy against Toppo when he used his ki explosion. He's had some really good-great showings in the entire tournament. His character has never been better. He's gotten a great amount of development and more characterization and he's bound to get more the next episode (COME ON! THIS IS GOOD!). If you're having issues with him getting his ass beat next episode then you need to grow up. It's fucking Jiren. There's no reason none of these guys shouldn't be beaten down like never before. Are we gonna pretend Jiren didn't beat the hell out of Goku when they first fought and even embarrassed him when he said he wasn't going to be needed? Come on. It's not any worse when Vegeta gets beat. The only real difference are the no life trolls that make memes to get under fans skin and nerves. It's just vapid nonsense. Many fighters have lost and gotten beat down.

Vegeta isn't buying time for Goku to get energy back. It's only the two of them and Goku is getting his ass kicked and only Vegeta is standing. Vegeta is trying to go out like a man. Their entire reality is on the line. He'd rather be taken down fighting than give up when this is all at stake. In his mind, he must win.
How many times do I need to answer those kinds of comments?

I'm not saying here that Vegeta has to beat Jiren and even criticizing his participation in the tournament, I'm just talking about his last fight.

Why does this fight need to be a reference to fighting Kid Boo? Why do we have to see Vegeta throughout the episode being defeated by Jiren without even being able to do anything?
Yes, all this in the end is only for Goku to regain his energy.

It is disappointing that after all your participation in the tournament, that is your end.
Be beaten by Jiren in base form without doing anything.
In the preview we even see Goku transformed and Vegeta does not, this is terrible

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Re: Vegeta will receive the Kid Boo treatment again... very original

Post by MajinVegetaPD » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:33 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:Considering how much Vegeta has busted his ass and went out of his way to get stronger throughout the show, couple with his immeasurable determination to not fall behind, something he reinforced in literally the second episode of the show, I feel Vegeta brute forcing his way to a form and defeating essentially a Hakaishin feels very much thematically appropriate for his character. Especially in an event like the Tournament Of Power. He's gotten quite a lot of good treatment in the tournament, so I don't really feel that he has received or will receive the "Kid Boo treatment". He's made a huge difference in the Tournament Of Power, is now level pegging with SSJB Kaioken, and it taking on the strongest mortal in the history of Dragon Ball with nothing but willpower. I'd say this is best treated Vegeta has ever been in an isolated story arc in Dragon Ball.
So you like the fact that Vegeta is beaten and destroyed by Jiren in his base form without being able to do anything in his last battle?

I'm not talking about your participation during the tournament, but specifically about your last effort.
Why does it need to be a reference to fighting Kid Boo? Why do we have to see Vegeta throughout the episode being defeated by Jiren without even being able to do anything?

After that we know that none of this will do any good, because Goku will simply get up and defeat Jiren alone.
Nero<>Akira wrote:Seriously... What do you want? lol I'm sure you don't even know the answer to that question like many other.

Vegeta is arguably on Goku's level at full power (still). He ascended to another level of Super Saiyan God (very appropriate when you contrast Goku's achievements.. and a NEW LEVEL OF GOD!). He became so strong that he could outdo Destruction Energy and beat a low tier GoD. He didn't even have to use his life energy against Toppo when he used his ki explosion. He's had some really good-great showings in the entire tournament. His character has never been better. He's gotten a great amount of development and more characterization and he's bound to get more the next episode (COME ON! THIS IS GOOD!). If you're having issues with him getting his ass beat next episode then you need to grow up. It's fucking Jiren. There's no reason none of these guys shouldn't be beaten down like never before. Are we gonna pretend Jiren didn't beat the hell out of Goku when they first fought and even embarrassed him when he said he wasn't going to be needed? Come on. It's not any worse when Vegeta gets beat. The only real difference are the no life trolls that make memes to get under fans skin and nerves. It's just vapid nonsense. Many fighters have lost and gotten beat down.

Vegeta isn't buying time for Goku to get energy back. It's only the two of them and Goku is getting his ass kicked and only Vegeta is standing. Vegeta is trying to go out like a man. Their entire reality is on the line. He'd rather be taken down fighting than give up when this is all at stake. In his mind, he must win.
How many times do I need to answer those kinds of comments?

I'm not saying here that Vegeta has to beat Jiren and even criticizing his participation in the tournament, I'm just talking about his last fight.

Why does this fight need to be a reference to fighting Kid Boo? Why do we have to see Vegeta throughout the episode being defeated by Jiren without even being able to do anything?
Yes, all this in the end is only for Goku to regain his energy.

It is disappointing that after all your participation in the tournament, that is your end.
Be beaten by Jiren in base form without doing anything.
In the preview we even see Goku transformed and Vegeta does not, this is terrible
This x10. I'm not sure how people who are rooting for Vegeta get generalized into wanting Vegeta to defeat Jiren. Regardless of what is thought, we completely understand that Vegeta is not the main character, and will never have a "end boss" victory ever.

The only thing we are asking for is for him to put up a respectable showing. The fight can be competitive and still make Jiren look strong. I'm not sure how Vegeta getting the Kid Buu treatment benefits Goku in any way. Does Goku need to see Vegeta get mopped for him to recover stamina? The NEP shows Goku borderline crying when Vegeta is getting his ass whooped......so emotion is gonna unlock Mastered UI? This could have been done a lot better IMO.

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Re: Vegeta will receive the Kid Boo treatment again... very original

Post by KingKaash » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:15 pm

To me, Vegeta should've been eliminated when he used his suicide bomb against Toppo. That fight should've ended in a tie. Because it's a stretch to say Vegeta trained to survive a suicide bomb and that his new Ascended SSJB that's totally unexplained helped him.

So Vegeta getting beat around will be fine. I mean he really shouldn't really have an energy left while Jiren is 99% healthy so what do you expect.
"Gohan, let it go. It is not a sin to fight for the right cause. There are those who words alone will not reach. Cell is such a being. I know how you feel Gohan, you are gentle, you do not like to hurt. I know because I too have learned these feelings. But it is because you cherish life that you must protect it. Please drop your restraints. Protect the life I once loved. You have the strength, my scanners sensed it..." -Android 16

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Re: Vegeta will receive the Kid Boo treatment again... very original

Post by TBMx » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:09 am

MajinVegetaPD wrote:
TBMx wrote:
JazzMazz wrote: It wasn't Goku's training that allowed him to reach the form, it was the fact he fell into his own gigantic spirit bomb as it exploded that allowed him to pull it off. Also, and I think this is important, Vegeta has literally zero interest in getting Ultra Instinct at this very moment, his accepted that as something that Goku can have. This makes a lot more sense now because Vegeta has now gotten his own limit breaking ability and used that ability to defeat a God of Destruction. This new form for Vegeta is a testimony to him wanting to power-up in his own unique way.
He only has zero interest because he can't do it.
You are saying this like Vegeta is a real person? The writers decide who gets what , you understand this, right?. If the plot called for it, Vegeta would have UI regardless if you "think" he can or should achieve it. It's clear the writers wanted Vegeta in that moment to not care about chasing Goku anymore, to walk his own path. This was a great line and moment for Vegeta, and hopefully it continues in the future, breaking his limits on his own accord, not worrying about Goku anymore.
What you're saying is non sequitr. Vegeta didn't say that line after having a hint of UI, which would make his choice valid between two possible options. Only after trying and failing to get UI did he say that. He has been brought to and past his limits on multiple occasions now, and no UI Omen. So what he's saying is a childish "I didn't want it anyway!" is for a start not true, as he wanted it when he thought he could get it, and is simply a way to make himself feel like less of a failure in his mind. Rather than admit he can't do it, he rationalized it to be "I don't want to anyway".

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Re: Vegeta will receive the Kid Boo treatment again... very original

Post by JazzMazz » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:14 am

TBMx wrote:
MajinVegetaPD wrote:
TBMx wrote:
He only has zero interest because he can't do it.
You are saying this like Vegeta is a real person? The writers decide who gets what , you understand this, right?. If the plot called for it, Vegeta would have UI regardless if you "think" he can or should achieve it. It's clear the writers wanted Vegeta in that moment to not care about chasing Goku anymore, to walk his own path. This was a great line and moment for Vegeta, and hopefully it continues in the future, breaking his limits on his own accord, not worrying about Goku anymore.
What you're saying is non sequitr. Vegeta didn't say that line after having a hint of UI, which would make his choice valid between two possible options. Only after trying and failing to get UI did he say that. He has been brought to and past his limits on multiple occasions now, and no UI Omen. So what he's saying is a childish "I didn't want it anyway!" is for a start not true, as he wanted it when he thought he could get it, and is simply a way to make himself feel like less of a failure in his mind. Rather than admit he can't do it, he rationalized it to be "I don't want to anyway".
Yes, and he didn't need to, because he surpassed his limitations in his own, in a way that allowed him to become the strongest member of Universe 7 with accessibly.

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Re: Vegeta will receive the Kid Boo treatment again... very original

Post by TBMx » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:22 am

JazzMazz wrote:
TBMx wrote:
MajinVegetaPD wrote:
You are saying this like Vegeta is a real person? The writers decide who gets what , you understand this, right?. If the plot called for it, Vegeta would have UI regardless if you "think" he can or should achieve it. It's clear the writers wanted Vegeta in that moment to not care about chasing Goku anymore, to walk his own path. This was a great line and moment for Vegeta, and hopefully it continues in the future, breaking his limits on his own accord, not worrying about Goku anymore.
What you're saying is non sequitr. Vegeta didn't say that line after having a hint of UI, which would make his choice valid between two possible options. Only after trying and failing to get UI did he say that. He has been brought to and past his limits on multiple occasions now, and no UI Omen. So what he's saying is a childish "I didn't want it anyway!" is for a start not true, as he wanted it when he thought he could get it, and is simply a way to make himself feel like less of a failure in his mind. Rather than admit he can't do it, he rationalized it to be "I don't want to anyway".
Yes, and he didn't need to, because he surpassed his limitations in his own, in a way that allowed him to become the strongest member of Universe 7 with accessibly.
Vegeta's probably around Kefla's level now, meaning he can't even touch UI Omen Goku with that form. Vegeta going down his own transformation line doesn't really mean anything if Goku has autododge does it. The question Goku fanboys then ask is why does Vegeta need to rival Goku? In that case why even give him a new form, why not give it to Piccolo or Gohan, characters who already aren't based around rivalling Goku.

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Re: Vegeta will receive the Kid Boo treatment again... very original

Post by JazzMazz » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:43 am

TBMx wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:
TBMx wrote:
What you're saying is non sequitr. Vegeta didn't say that line after having a hint of UI, which would make his choice valid between two possible options. Only after trying and failing to get UI did he say that. He has been brought to and past his limits on multiple occasions now, and no UI Omen. So what he's saying is a childish "I didn't want it anyway!" is for a start not true, as he wanted it when he thought he could get it, and is simply a way to make himself feel like less of a failure in his mind. Rather than admit he can't do it, he rationalized it to be "I don't want to anyway".
Yes, and he didn't need to, because he surpassed his limitations in his own, in a way that allowed him to become the strongest member of Universe 7 with accessibly.
Vegeta's probably around Kefla's level now, meaning he can't even touch UI Omen Goku with that form. Vegeta going down his own transformation line doesn't really mean anything if Goku has autododge does it. The question Goku fanboys then ask is why does Vegeta need to rival Goku? In that case why even give him a new form, why not give it to Piccolo or Gohan, characters who already aren't based around rivalling Goku.
Vegeta doesn't need to rival Goku, and he didn't achieve the transformation in purely to do so. Vegeta broke his limits because he personally had a heavily vested interest in not only surviving, but winning the Super Dragonballs in order to keep his wish, which I have to say is something neither Piccolo or Gohan really cared all that much about. Also, I said easily accessible transformations, and from what I remember, Goku can only access UI currently under super extreme conditions. Also, I think Vegeta's a little above Kefla's level, she never really struck as being able to take out a God of Destruction by himself.

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Re: Vegeta will receive the Kid Boo treatment again... very original

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:41 am

TBMx wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:
TBMx wrote:
What you're saying is non sequitr. Vegeta didn't say that line after having a hint of UI, which would make his choice valid between two possible options. Only after trying and failing to get UI did he say that. He has been brought to and past his limits on multiple occasions now, and no UI Omen. So what he's saying is a childish "I didn't want it anyway!" is for a start not true, as he wanted it when he thought he could get it, and is simply a way to make himself feel like less of a failure in his mind. Rather than admit he can't do it, he rationalized it to be "I don't want to anyway".
Yes, and he didn't need to, because he surpassed his limitations in his own, in a way that allowed him to become the strongest member of Universe 7 with accessibly.
Vegeta's probably around Kefla's level now, meaning he can't even touch UI Omen Goku with that form. Vegeta going down his own transformation line doesn't really mean anything if Goku has autododge does it. The question Goku fanboys then ask is why does Vegeta need to rival Goku? In that case why even give him a new form, why not give it to Piccolo or Gohan, characters who already aren't based around rivalling Goku.
I'll have to disagree with that. Vegeta is far more powerful than Kefla.
He is fighting Jiren (who has released his TRUE POWER and is much stronger than in the fight against UI Goku), and manages to maintain a good fight.
He also beat Hakaishin Toppo, who is above Kefla.

Vegeta will probably be much weaker than mastered UI Goku, but he is certainly at least at the same level or above UI Goku's EP 110.

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Re: Vegeta will receive the Kid Boo treatment again... very original

Post by Nero<>Akira » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:03 am

MajinVegetaPD wrote:
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:Considering how much Vegeta has busted his ass and went out of his way to get stronger throughout the show, couple with his immeasurable determination to not fall behind, something he reinforced in literally the second episode of the show, I feel Vegeta brute forcing his way to a form and defeating essentially a Hakaishin feels very much thematically appropriate for his character. Especially in an event like the Tournament Of Power. He's gotten quite a lot of good treatment in the tournament, so I don't really feel that he has received or will receive the "Kid Boo treatment". He's made a huge difference in the Tournament Of Power, is now level pegging with SSJB Kaioken, and it taking on the strongest mortal in the history of Dragon Ball with nothing but willpower. I'd say this is best treated Vegeta has ever been in an isolated story arc in Dragon Ball.
So you like the fact that Vegeta is beaten and destroyed by Jiren in his base form without being able to do anything in his last battle?

I'm not talking about your participation during the tournament, but specifically about your last effort.
Why does it need to be a reference to fighting Kid Boo? Why do we have to see Vegeta throughout the episode being defeated by Jiren without even being able to do anything?

After that we know that none of this will do any good, because Goku will simply get up and defeat Jiren alone.
Nero<>Akira wrote:Seriously... What do you want? lol I'm sure you don't even know the answer to that question like many other.

Vegeta is arguably on Goku's level at full power (still). He ascended to another level of Super Saiyan God (very appropriate when you contrast Goku's achievements.. and a NEW LEVEL OF GOD!). He became so strong that he could outdo Destruction Energy and beat a low tier GoD. He didn't even have to use his life energy against Toppo when he used his ki explosion. He's had some really good-great showings in the entire tournament. His character has never been better. He's gotten a great amount of development and more characterization and he's bound to get more the next episode (COME ON! THIS IS GOOD!). If you're having issues with him getting his ass beat next episode then you need to grow up. It's fucking Jiren. There's no reason none of these guys shouldn't be beaten down like never before. Are we gonna pretend Jiren didn't beat the hell out of Goku when they first fought and even embarrassed him when he said he wasn't going to be needed? Come on. It's not any worse when Vegeta gets beat. The only real difference are the no life trolls that make memes to get under fans skin and nerves. It's just vapid nonsense. Many fighters have lost and gotten beat down.

Vegeta isn't buying time for Goku to get energy back. It's only the two of them and Goku is getting his ass kicked and only Vegeta is standing. Vegeta is trying to go out like a man. Their entire reality is on the line. He'd rather be taken down fighting than give up when this is all at stake. In his mind, he must win.
How many times do I need to answer those kinds of comments?

I'm not saying here that Vegeta has to beat Jiren and even criticizing his participation in the tournament, I'm just talking about his last fight.

Why does this fight need to be a reference to fighting Kid Boo? Why do we have to see Vegeta throughout the episode being defeated by Jiren without even being able to do anything?
Yes, all this in the end is only for Goku to regain his energy.

It is disappointing that after all your participation in the tournament, that is your end.
Be beaten by Jiren in base form without doing anything.
In the preview we even see Goku transformed and Vegeta does not, this is terrible
This x10. I'm not sure how people who are rooting for Vegeta get generalized into wanting Vegeta to defeat Jiren. Regardless of what is thought, we completely understand that Vegeta is not the main character, and will never have a "end boss" victory ever.

The only thing we are asking for is for him to put up a respectable showing. The fight can be competitive and still make Jiren look strong. I'm not sure how Vegeta getting the Kid Buu treatment benefits Goku in any way. Does Goku need to see Vegeta get mopped for him to recover stamina? The NEP shows Goku borderline crying when Vegeta is getting his ass whooped......so emotion is gonna unlock Mastered UI? This could have been done a lot better IMO.
Guys, come on. stop it. Vegeta getting beat up by Jiren isn't a damn reference. You guys are making that shit up. Vegeta is too far below Jiren and too damn exhausted to have a "respectable" showing. His respectable showing was in 122 and it was nearly the same as when Goku first fought him. They looked good at first and got their ass whooped. Jiren is too strong. He's getting beat. I actually want to see them like this. It gives more gravitas to the entire situation.
Zamasu is the best DB villain besides Freeza (and this is only the case because the current Super arc elevated Freeza to be that good).

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Re: Vegeta will receive the Kid Boo treatment again... very original

Post by GohanHiddenPowers » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:16 am

What do i have to talk about this topic, more specifically? I would say they are repeating, but in a more anti-climatic way this time, the atmosphere of battle that we watched against Kid Boo. The only difference is that now we do not have a weakling like Videl's father to throw little rocks in Jiren's head, and help Vegeta while he is being beaten by Jiren, with Goku doing something else, like regaining his energy to transform again. Well, we have a lot of rocks scattered on what's left of the arena, but we don't have Videl's father this time, so Goku and Vegeta are doomed :think: , or this time only Vegeta, to serve as a ladder for Goku show all his glory of shonen hero.
ZenkaiBoosts wrote:Vegeta isn't the main character. Vegeta is probably the greatest treated secondary character in anime. Yet that still is never enough. This is why Super should've just focused on Gohan instead, because at least Gohan fans would've been happy with anything Gohan got. Vegeta gets like 10 countries to himself and Vegeta fans are upset and complaining that Vegeta didn't get the world
ZenkaiBoosts wrote:If any group has a real reason to complain its Gohan fans. Super completely shitted all over Gohan. Gohan only got 3 mins screen time in his own elimination episode... YET Vegeta gets an epic win plus 2 epic farewells..enough is enough with complaining Vegeta fans and the annoying pro Vegeta bias in Super
Thank you for summing up what i wanted to say too.
ShinTenshin wrote:As for Gohan, you have what you deserve to be honest !
Gohan's fans never stop saying ridiculous things like new transformation, winner of the TOP, surpassing Jiren....
I even remember when Opening 2 lyrics was translated, every Gohan's fans stated it was him that was portrayed to become insanely strong (breaking limit) !!!

Gohan's fans can't be happy if he isn't the first one, you live in a dream full of jealousy for other characters.
Gohan have fullfiling his destiny, he's not a fighter anymore.
He'll never be a strong character, accept it.
Oh, sure... off course not. Well, what do we have here? Well, a character "deserving something" is a very relative term if we are talking about fictional characters, and human anime producers, and the momentary preference of theirs. Well, "ridiculous things like new transformation, winner of the TOP, surpassing Jiren" is just these things that the great majority of Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan's fans want for their favourite character, they want them in the spotlight. Well, it's like i said in another thread:

[spoiler]Image
Image
GohanHiddenPowers wrote: There are other moments to discuss before this moment (the last time Gohan and Goku fought like they fought in DBS Ep 90, was when they trained in the RoSaT). Like Vegeta talking about Gohan's potential being the greatest of all, before the universe 6 tournament. And this "Gohan meme", is as "stupid" as Dragon Ball AF, or any other fan-made job, ranging from fanarts and videos with Goku/Vegeta/Gohan Super Saiyan 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, to fusions. Well, we have a game called DB Fusions. We have a game called DB Heroes with crazy storylines and transformations. Between all this, Gohan fans who want to see some new transformation, according to the new concepts of power and ki set in super, do not sound so crazy. It's simple, Gohan is not as lucky as Vegeta now, someone who is being graced with fanservice, getting power ups out of nowhere just because, something that was never a character's trait of his, but Gohan's... everything that's happening with Vegeta sounds like the producers trying to pursue this "rivalry" trope like there's no tomorrow.
[/spoiler]

"Gohan's fans can't be happy if he isn't the first one, you live in a dream full of jealousy for other characters." Oh, that's just a matter of preference here, something very human, i would say. But Gohan can have this much of expectations about him. He is the only one to be the strongest character two times, beyond Goku, after the two most important timeskips from DBZ (the one between the Cell saga and Boo saga, and the one before EoZ). Even Future Trunks never got the same glory that Gohan once had, even with his final moment against Merged Zamasu, in DBS. We are talking about Dragon Ball as a whole here, not only 131 episodes of Super... well, 103 new episodes which were not recycled and 2 movies. So, we are talking about the 13 movies, 3 ovas, and 293 episodes from dbz too.

"Gohan have fullfiling his destiny, he's not a fighter anymore" yeah, just like Vegeta, when he said that Goku was the number one, at the end of the fight against Kid Boo, i.e., we saw Vegeta accepting his place of number two or three, if the producers wnated to put Gohan in the spotlight again. Vegeta is lucky and the producers of Super wanted Vegeta, because we can't have Goku and Vegeta's show without Vegeta.

"He'll never be a strong character, accept it" the story is here to say something else...

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

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Re: Vegeta will receive the Kid Boo treatment again... very original

Post by MajinVegetaPD » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:38 am

Nero<>Akira wrote:
MajinVegetaPD wrote:
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
So you like the fact that Vegeta is beaten and destroyed by Jiren in his base form without being able to do anything in his last battle?

I'm not talking about your participation during the tournament, but specifically about your last effort.
Why does it need to be a reference to fighting Kid Boo? Why do we have to see Vegeta throughout the episode being defeated by Jiren without even being able to do anything?

After that we know that none of this will do any good, because Goku will simply get up and defeat Jiren alone.



How many times do I need to answer those kinds of comments?

I'm not saying here that Vegeta has to beat Jiren and even criticizing his participation in the tournament, I'm just talking about his last fight.

Why does this fight need to be a reference to fighting Kid Boo? Why do we have to see Vegeta throughout the episode being defeated by Jiren without even being able to do anything?
Yes, all this in the end is only for Goku to regain his energy.

It is disappointing that after all your participation in the tournament, that is your end.
Be beaten by Jiren in base form without doing anything.
In the preview we even see Goku transformed and Vegeta does not, this is terrible
This x10. I'm not sure how people who are rooting for Vegeta get generalized into wanting Vegeta to defeat Jiren. Regardless of what is thought, we completely understand that Vegeta is not the main character, and will never have a "end boss" victory ever.

The only thing we are asking for is for him to put up a respectable showing. The fight can be competitive and still make Jiren look strong. I'm not sure how Vegeta getting the Kid Buu treatment benefits Goku in any way. Does Goku need to see Vegeta get mopped for him to recover stamina? The NEP shows Goku borderline crying when Vegeta is getting his ass whooped......so emotion is gonna unlock Mastered UI? This could have been done a lot better IMO.
Guys, come on. stop it. Vegeta getting beat up by Jiren isn't a damn reference. You guys are making that shit up. Vegeta is too far below Jiren and too damn exhausted to have a "respectable" showing. His respectable showing was in 122 and it was nearly the same as when Goku first fought him. They looked good at first and got their ass whooped. Jiren is too strong. He's getting beat. I actually want to see them like this. It gives more gravitas to the entire situation.
Stop it? So we can be lead to believe that an equally exhausted Goku who in real time will have at the most 60 more seconds of rest is gonna put up a fight with Jiren?

Sorry dude, I'm tired of drinking that kool aid.

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Re: Vegeta will receive the Kid Boo treatment again... very original

Post by TBMx » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:53 am

JazzMazz wrote:
TBMx wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:Yes, and he didn't need to, because he surpassed his limitations in his own, in a way that allowed him to become the strongest member of Universe 7 with accessibly.
Vegeta's probably around Kefla's level now, meaning he can't even touch UI Omen Goku with that form. Vegeta going down his own transformation line doesn't really mean anything if Goku has autododge does it. The question Goku fanboys then ask is why does Vegeta need to rival Goku? In that case why even give him a new form, why not give it to Piccolo or Gohan, characters who already aren't based around rivalling Goku.
Vegeta doesn't need to rival Goku, and he didn't achieve the transformation in purely to do so. Vegeta broke his limits because he personally had a heavily vested interest in not only surviving, but winning the Super Dragonballs in order to keep his wish, which I have to say is something neither Piccolo or Gohan really cared all that much about. Also, I said easily accessible transformations, and from what I remember, Goku can only access UI currently under super extreme conditions. Also, I think Vegeta's a little above Kefla's level, she never really struck as being able to take out a God of Destruction by himself.
We know Vegeta is still trying to rival Goku, as we know Toriyama fairly recently changed the last line he had in dbz to reflect that. If he wants to fight Goku again, he needs UI, or a transformation that somehow negates Goku's autododge. Otherwise Goku will make Vegeta look like a fool. So if one is saying he "doesn't need UI" One has to give context to that statement. Given 17's performance, Vegeta doesn't even need the transformation he got (which seems awful at dodging) in order to fulfil his apparent role in the ToP. Which is get his ass knocked around by god Toppo until he does the final explosion - it would have made more sense if Vegeta stayed in SSB as it'd make the explosion actually necessary - and then jobbing to Jiren. Could have done it in regular blue, considering what 17 did.

Isn't Vegeta supposed to be Goku's arch rival? No? Or is the story somehow better by giving that role to the Generic alien of the month?

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Re: Vegeta will receive the Kid Boo treatment again... very original

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:23 pm

TBMx wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:
TBMx wrote:
Vegeta's probably around Kefla's level now, meaning he can't even touch UI Omen Goku with that form. Vegeta going down his own transformation line doesn't really mean anything if Goku has autododge does it. The question Goku fanboys then ask is why does Vegeta need to rival Goku? In that case why even give him a new form, why not give it to Piccolo or Gohan, characters who already aren't based around rivalling Goku.
Vegeta doesn't need to rival Goku, and he didn't achieve the transformation in purely to do so. Vegeta broke his limits because he personally had a heavily vested interest in not only surviving, but winning the Super Dragonballs in order to keep his wish, which I have to say is something neither Piccolo or Gohan really cared all that much about. Also, I said easily accessible transformations, and from what I remember, Goku can only access UI currently under super extreme conditions. Also, I think Vegeta's a little above Kefla's level, she never really struck as being able to take out a God of Destruction by himself.
We know Vegeta is still trying to rival Goku, as we know Toriyama fairly recently changed the last line he had in dbz to reflect that. If he wants to fight Goku again, he needs UI, or a transformation that somehow negates Goku's autododge. Otherwise Goku will make Vegeta look like a fool. So if one is saying he "doesn't need UI" One has to give context to that statement. Given 17's performance, Vegeta doesn't even need the transformation he got (which seems awful at dodging) in order to fulfil his apparent role in the ToP. Which is get his ass knocked around by god Toppo until he does the final explosion - it would have made more sense if Vegeta stayed in SSB as it'd make the explosion actually necessary - and then jobbing to Jiren. Could have done it in regular blue, considering what 17 did.

Isn't Vegeta supposed to be Goku's arch rival? No? Or is the story somehow better by giving that role to the Generic alien of the month?
No, in a later version of the last chapter, this talk of Vegeta does not exist. So in the end he does not want to overtake Goku

And 17 just managed to hold Toppo because of his infinite energy and barrier.
He could not do much more than that. So Vegeta only on SSB also would not be able to do anything against Toppo. This new transformation really made some sense at the end

But I agree that Vegeta is also training to get the UI, just like Goku.
In the manga, the Fish Oracle says that Vegeta and Goku will be great rivals for Beerus.
So why could not Vegeta at least get a prelude to the UI? Or surpass the power of Beerus in that last arc?
Nero<>Akira wrote:
MajinVegetaPD wrote:
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
So you like the fact that Vegeta is beaten and destroyed by Jiren in his base form without being able to do anything in his last battle?

I'm not talking about your participation during the tournament, but specifically about your last effort.
Why does it need to be a reference to fighting Kid Boo? Why do we have to see Vegeta throughout the episode being defeated by Jiren without even being able to do anything?

After that we know that none of this will do any good, because Goku will simply get up and defeat Jiren alone.



How many times do I need to answer those kinds of comments?

I'm not saying here that Vegeta has to beat Jiren and even criticizing his participation in the tournament, I'm just talking about his last fight.

Why does this fight need to be a reference to fighting Kid Boo? Why do we have to see Vegeta throughout the episode being defeated by Jiren without even being able to do anything?
Yes, all this in the end is only for Goku to regain his energy.

It is disappointing that after all your participation in the tournament, that is your end.
Be beaten by Jiren in base form without doing anything.
In the preview we even see Goku transformed and Vegeta does not, this is terrible
This x10. I'm not sure how people who are rooting for Vegeta get generalized into wanting Vegeta to defeat Jiren. Regardless of what is thought, we completely understand that Vegeta is not the main character, and will never have a "end boss" victory ever.

The only thing we are asking for is for him to put up a respectable showing. The fight can be competitive and still make Jiren look strong. I'm not sure how Vegeta getting the Kid Buu treatment benefits Goku in any way. Does Goku need to see Vegeta get mopped for him to recover stamina? The NEP shows Goku borderline crying when Vegeta is getting his ass whooped......so emotion is gonna unlock Mastered UI? This could have been done a lot better IMO.
Guys, come on. stop it. Vegeta getting beat up by Jiren isn't a damn reference. You guys are making that shit up. Vegeta is too far below Jiren and too damn exhausted to have a "respectable" showing. His respectable showing was in 122 and it was nearly the same as when Goku first fought him. They looked good at first and got their ass whooped. Jiren is too strong. He's getting beat. I actually want to see them like this. It gives more gravitas to the entire situation.
Vegeta was also being defeated by Toppo, but after thinking about his family, he was able to defeat him. Why could not he at least give Jiren some work on EP 128 doing the same thing? It's your last battle

The '' he's tired '' argument does not make sense

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Re: Vegeta will receive the Kid Boo treatment again... very original

Post by TBMx » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:44 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
TBMx wrote:
JazzMazz wrote: Vegeta doesn't need to rival Goku, and he didn't achieve the transformation in purely to do so. Vegeta broke his limits because he personally had a heavily vested interest in not only surviving, but winning the Super Dragonballs in order to keep his wish, which I have to say is something neither Piccolo or Gohan really cared all that much about. Also, I said easily accessible transformations, and from what I remember, Goku can only access UI currently under super extreme conditions. Also, I think Vegeta's a little above Kefla's level, she never really struck as being able to take out a God of Destruction by himself.
We know Vegeta is still trying to rival Goku, as we know Toriyama fairly recently changed the last line he had in dbz to reflect that. If he wants to fight Goku again, he needs UI, or a transformation that somehow negates Goku's autododge. Otherwise Goku will make Vegeta look like a fool. So if one is saying he "doesn't need UI" One has to give context to that statement. Given 17's performance, Vegeta doesn't even need the transformation he got (which seems awful at dodging) in order to fulfil his apparent role in the ToP. Which is get his ass knocked around by god Toppo until he does the final explosion - it would have made more sense if Vegeta stayed in SSB as it'd make the explosion actually necessary - and then jobbing to Jiren. Could have done it in regular blue, considering what 17 did.

Isn't Vegeta supposed to be Goku's arch rival? No? Or is the story somehow better by giving that role to the Generic alien of the month?
No, in a later version of the last chapter, this talk of Vegeta does not exist. So in the end he does not want to overtake Goku

And 17 just managed to hold Toppo because of his infinite energy and barrier.
He could not do much more than that. So Vegeta only on SSB also would not be able to do anything against Toppo. This new transformation really made some sense at the end

But I agree that Vegeta is also training to get the UI, just like Goku.
In the manga, the Fish Oracle says that Vegeta and Goku will be great rivals for Beerus.
So why could not Vegeta at least get a prelude to the UI? Or surpass the power of Beerus in that last arc?
Toriyama changed it to "I'll surpass you someday", you're saying he changed it back? When?

And I'm not saying Vegeta has to do better against Jiren than 17. Because even now, with SSBluerer, he hasn't done better by any means. I'm saying all Vegeta needs to get his ass kicked and eliminated by Jiren, is regular SSB.

All he needed to beat god Toppo is regular SSB.

So all this talk about what Vegeta "needs" and "wants" is irrelevant. He's been through the same training as Goku, he actually trained with Whis longer, he's been pushed past his limits multiple times, he almost died in this tournament, at least three times, Why has he not broken through to his "Inner shell" yet? Meaning why hasn't he even got UI omen yet? For even a second? That's what makes me think it'll always be a Goku specific thing like Kaioken.

I would trade Vegeta's new transformation for UI omen in a split second. UI Omen actually lends itself to elaborate fight choreography making it a joy to watch (or it would if it wasn't Goku's), while Vegeta's new transformation fight Toppo was boring, slow and unentertaining.

And that's all that matters at the end of the day. Entertainment.

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Re: Vegeta will receive the Kid Boo treatment again... very original

Post by JazzMazz » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:04 pm

TBMx wrote:
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
TBMx wrote:
We know Vegeta is still trying to rival Goku, as we know Toriyama fairly recently changed the last line he had in dbz to reflect that. If he wants to fight Goku again, he needs UI, or a transformation that somehow negates Goku's autododge. Otherwise Goku will make Vegeta look like a fool. So if one is saying he "doesn't need UI" One has to give context to that statement. Given 17's performance, Vegeta doesn't even need the transformation he got (which seems awful at dodging) in order to fulfil his apparent role in the ToP. Which is get his ass knocked around by god Toppo until he does the final explosion - it would have made more sense if Vegeta stayed in SSB as it'd make the explosion actually necessary - and then jobbing to Jiren. Could have done it in regular blue, considering what 17 did.

Isn't Vegeta supposed to be Goku's arch rival? No? Or is the story somehow better by giving that role to the Generic alien of the month?
No, in a later version of the last chapter, this talk of Vegeta does not exist. So in the end he does not want to overtake Goku

And 17 just managed to hold Toppo because of his infinite energy and barrier.
He could not do much more than that. So Vegeta only on SSB also would not be able to do anything against Toppo. This new transformation really made some sense at the end

But I agree that Vegeta is also training to get the UI, just like Goku.
In the manga, the Fish Oracle says that Vegeta and Goku will be great rivals for Beerus.
So why could not Vegeta at least get a prelude to the UI? Or surpass the power of Beerus in that last arc?
Toriyama changed it to "I'll surpass you someday", you're saying he changed it back? When?

And I'm not saying Vegeta has to do better against Jiren than 17. Because even now, with SSBluerer, he hasn't done better by any means. I'm saying all Vegeta needs to get his ass kicked and eliminated by Jiren, is regular SSB.

All he needed to beat god Toppo is regular SSB.

So all this talk about what Vegeta "needs" and "wants" is irrelevant. He's been through the same training as Goku, he actually trained with Whis longer, he's been pushed past his limits multiple times, he almost died in this tournament, at least three times, Why has he not broken through to his "Inner shell" yet? Meaning why hasn't he even got UI omen yet? For even a second? That's what makes me think it'll always be a Goku specific thing like Kaioken.

I would trade Vegeta's new transformation for UI omen in a split second. UI Omen actually lends itself to elaborate fight choreography making it a joy to watch (or it would if it wasn't Goku's), while Vegeta's new transformation fight Toppo was boring, slow and unentertaining.

And that's all that matters at the end of the day. Entertainment.
It just occurred to me, that UI Omen really isn't a form thats all its cracked up to be. It lasts literally 2 minutes at most, and its attacks are considered completely inadequate.

This makes me think, that Vegeta's current power would actually be able to outlast UI omen Goku in fight, since they both really wouldn't be able to hurt each other. Goku's attacks are too weak to be effective, however, Vegeta wouldn't be able to land any of his attacks because UI omen will allow him to dodge everything. In the end, it just comes down to who has the most stamina, and I can safetly say that Vegetas new form has shown to be more accessible and practical than UI Goku has been shown to be in many cases in combat.

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Re: Vegeta will receive the Kid Boo treatment again... very original

Post by Nero<>Akira » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:31 pm

MajinVegetaPD wrote:
Nero<>Akira wrote:
MajinVegetaPD wrote:
This x10. I'm not sure how people who are rooting for Vegeta get generalized into wanting Vegeta to defeat Jiren. Regardless of what is thought, we completely understand that Vegeta is not the main character, and will never have a "end boss" victory ever.

The only thing we are asking for is for him to put up a respectable showing. The fight can be competitive and still make Jiren look strong. I'm not sure how Vegeta getting the Kid Buu treatment benefits Goku in any way. Does Goku need to see Vegeta get mopped for him to recover stamina? The NEP shows Goku borderline crying when Vegeta is getting his ass whooped......so emotion is gonna unlock Mastered UI? This could have been done a lot better IMO.
Guys, come on. stop it. Vegeta getting beat up by Jiren isn't a damn reference. You guys are making that shit up. Vegeta is too far below Jiren and too damn exhausted to have a "respectable" showing. His respectable showing was in 122 and it was nearly the same as when Goku first fought him. They looked good at first and got their ass whooped. Jiren is too strong. He's getting beat. I actually want to see them like this. It gives more gravitas to the entire situation.
Stop it? So we can be lead to believe that an equally exhausted Goku who in real time will have at the most 60 more seconds of rest is gonna put up a fight with Jiren?

Sorry dude, I'm tired of drinking that kool aid.
Ultra Instinct lol
Zamasu is the best DB villain besides Freeza (and this is only the case because the current Super arc elevated Freeza to be that good).

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Re: Vegeta will receive the Kid Boo treatment again... very original

Post by Nero<>Akira » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:33 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
TBMx wrote:
JazzMazz wrote: Vegeta doesn't need to rival Goku, and he didn't achieve the transformation in purely to do so. Vegeta broke his limits because he personally had a heavily vested interest in not only surviving, but winning the Super Dragonballs in order to keep his wish, which I have to say is something neither Piccolo or Gohan really cared all that much about. Also, I said easily accessible transformations, and from what I remember, Goku can only access UI currently under super extreme conditions. Also, I think Vegeta's a little above Kefla's level, she never really struck as being able to take out a God of Destruction by himself.
We know Vegeta is still trying to rival Goku, as we know Toriyama fairly recently changed the last line he had in dbz to reflect that. If he wants to fight Goku again, he needs UI, or a transformation that somehow negates Goku's autododge. Otherwise Goku will make Vegeta look like a fool. So if one is saying he "doesn't need UI" One has to give context to that statement. Given 17's performance, Vegeta doesn't even need the transformation he got (which seems awful at dodging) in order to fulfil his apparent role in the ToP. Which is get his ass knocked around by god Toppo until he does the final explosion - it would have made more sense if Vegeta stayed in SSB as it'd make the explosion actually necessary - and then jobbing to Jiren. Could have done it in regular blue, considering what 17 did.

Isn't Vegeta supposed to be Goku's arch rival? No? Or is the story somehow better by giving that role to the Generic alien of the month?
No, in a later version of the last chapter, this talk of Vegeta does not exist. So in the end he does not want to overtake Goku

And 17 just managed to hold Toppo because of his infinite energy and barrier.
He could not do much more than that. So Vegeta only on SSB also would not be able to do anything against Toppo. This new transformation really made some sense at the end

But I agree that Vegeta is also training to get the UI, just like Goku.
In the manga, the Fish Oracle says that Vegeta and Goku will be great rivals for Beerus.
So why could not Vegeta at least get a prelude to the UI? Or surpass the power of Beerus in that last arc?
Nero<>Akira wrote:
MajinVegetaPD wrote:
This x10. I'm not sure how people who are rooting for Vegeta get generalized into wanting Vegeta to defeat Jiren. Regardless of what is thought, we completely understand that Vegeta is not the main character, and will never have a "end boss" victory ever.

The only thing we are asking for is for him to put up a respectable showing. The fight can be competitive and still make Jiren look strong. I'm not sure how Vegeta getting the Kid Buu treatment benefits Goku in any way. Does Goku need to see Vegeta get mopped for him to recover stamina? The NEP shows Goku borderline crying when Vegeta is getting his ass whooped......so emotion is gonna unlock Mastered UI? This could have been done a lot better IMO.
Guys, come on. stop it. Vegeta getting beat up by Jiren isn't a damn reference. You guys are making that shit up. Vegeta is too far below Jiren and too damn exhausted to have a "respectable" showing. His respectable showing was in 122 and it was nearly the same as when Goku first fought him. They looked good at first and got their ass whooped. Jiren is too strong. He's getting beat. I actually want to see them like this. It gives more gravitas to the entire situation.
Vegeta was also being defeated by Toppo, but after thinking about his family, he was able to defeat him. Why could not he at least give Jiren some work on EP 128 doing the same thing? It's your last battle

The '' he's tired '' argument does not make sense
Its.... Jiren..... JIREN. It doesn't matter if he is at full power lol don't even compare Toppo to him. Nothing suggests he is even on Jirens level. The only thing capable of besting Jiren or even fighting him is literally a technique Gods use.
Zamasu is the best DB villain besides Freeza (and this is only the case because the current Super arc elevated Freeza to be that good).

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