"Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by JazzMazz » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:20 pm

PFM18 wrote:
majinwarman wrote:
JazzMazz wrote: Unsurprisingly, best animated DB thing ever from what people have been saying.
That feat isn't really that hard to beat overall.
Not hard to beat in general, but very hard to beat the end of the ToP's animation. I've heard people say that it blows Goku vs Jiren out of the water, but I'll wait until I see the movie before I make that judgement.
From what I've seen of the fight, it blows Goku vs Jiren out of the water, by an absolutely ridiculous margin. They aren't even remotely comparable. The action in the film is absolutely nutty, even the less well done segments of the action are still really ambitious.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by PFM18 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:38 pm

JazzMazz wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
majinwarman wrote: That feat isn't really that hard to beat overall.
Not hard to beat in general, but very hard to beat the end of the ToP's animation. I've heard people say that it blows Goku vs Jiren out of the water, but I'll wait until I see the movie before I make that judgement.
From what I've seen of the fight, it blows Goku vs Jiren out of the water, by an absolutely ridiculous margin. They aren't even remotely comparable. The action in the film is absolutely nutty, even the less well done segments of the action are still really ambitious.
Like I said, I haven't seen the film, but Goku vs Jiren is pretty damn incredible. I'll wait and see if I share the same view of the comparison when I see it in a month.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by DainIronfoot » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:04 pm

PFM18 wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Not hard to beat in general, but very hard to beat the end of the ToP's animation. I've heard people say that it blows Goku vs Jiren out of the water, but I'll wait until I see the movie before I make that judgement.
From what I've seen of the fight, it blows Goku vs Jiren out of the water, by an absolutely ridiculous margin. They aren't even remotely comparable. The action in the film is absolutely nutty, even the less well done segments of the action are still really ambitious.
Like I said, I haven't seen the film, but Goku vs Jiren is pretty damn incredible. I'll wait and see if I share the same view of the comparison when I see it in a month.

Having seen it myself, I must disagree to some extent with Jazz. For me, Shida's Goku vs Jiren was out of this world, both featuring unbelievable fluidity and character art that's detailed/stunning to look at. While many scenes in the fillm were also beautifully animated, for me personally, it didn't capture the balance of both as Shida had done in that fight. The true gem of the fights in the film imo were due to the SB, color and effects. It being a film, it's not surprising it would be stellar in that sense.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by JazzMazz » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:10 am

DainIronfoot wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
JazzMazz wrote: From what I've seen of the fight, it blows Goku vs Jiren out of the water, by an absolutely ridiculous margin. They aren't even remotely comparable. The action in the film is absolutely nutty, even the less well done segments of the action are still really ambitious.
Like I said, I haven't seen the film, but Goku vs Jiren is pretty damn incredible. I'll wait and see if I share the same view of the comparison when I see it in a month.

Having seen it myself, I must disagree to some extent with Jazz. For me, Shida's Goku vs Jiren was out of this world, both featuring unbelievable fluidity and character art that's detailed/stunning to look at. While many scenes in the fillm were also beautifully animated, for me personally, it didn't capture the balance of both as Shida had done in that fight. The true gem of the fights in the film imo were due to the SB, color and effects. It being a film, it's not surprising it would be stellar in that sense.
I would disagree strongly about that. Shida's cuts in 130 had some nice bits in it, but I think almost every major bit of action is far more proficient than that cut in terms of camera work and general timing than the Shida cut from 130.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by PFM18 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:25 am

JazzMazz wrote:
DainIronfoot wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Like I said, I haven't seen the film, but Goku vs Jiren is pretty damn incredible. I'll wait and see if I share the same view of the comparison when I see it in a month.

Having seen it myself, I must disagree to some extent with Jazz. For me, Shida's Goku vs Jiren was out of this world, both featuring unbelievable fluidity and character art that's detailed/stunning to look at. While many scenes in the fillm were also beautifully animated, for me personally, it didn't capture the balance of both as Shida had done in that fight. The true gem of the fights in the film imo were due to the SB, color and effects. It being a film, it's not surprising it would be stellar in that sense.
I would disagree strongly about that. Shida's cuts in 130 had some nice bits in it, but I think almost every major bit of action is far more proficient than that cut in terms of camera work and general timing than the Shida cut from 130.
I'll see which side of the fence I fall on when I see the movie.

Point was, I agreed that "the best animated DB ever!!" generally doesn't mean much, or at least, it didn't until the ToP with the Goku vs Jiren fight which blew everything else out of the water. For you to say the same right now, it actually means something because Goku vs Jiren set a bar and a standard that is so far above everything else.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by DainIronfoot » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:51 am

JazzMazz wrote:
DainIronfoot wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Like I said, I haven't seen the film, but Goku vs Jiren is pretty damn incredible. I'll wait and see if I share the same view of the comparison when I see it in a month.

Having seen it myself, I must disagree to some extent with Jazz. For me, Shida's Goku vs Jiren was out of this world, both featuring unbelievable fluidity and character art that's detailed/stunning to look at. While many scenes in the fillm were also beautifully animated, for me personally, it didn't capture the balance of both as Shida had done in that fight. The true gem of the fights in the film imo were due to the SB, color and effects. It being a film, it's not surprising it would be stellar in that sense.
I would disagree strongly about that. Shida's cuts in 130 had some nice bits in it, but I think almost every major bit of action is far more proficient than that cut in terms of camera work and general timing than the Shida cut from 130.
Well, I disagree with you on that as well. We just have two different opinions mate :). I personally feel Shida's timing and once again the perfect balance of art and animation is what puts that cut in a league of its own (and this is for an episode mind you). While the fights in this film had good animation, there were some parts that didn't strike the balance of good art and animation like Shida did in 130. Everyone will have different opinions on this, and I think if you enjoy/prefer one, that's your choice.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by supersaiyanZero » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:55 am

PFM18 wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Not hard to beat in general, but very hard to beat the end of the ToP's animation. I've heard people say that it blows Goku vs Jiren out of the water, but I'll wait until I see the movie before I make that judgement.
From what I've seen of the fight, it blows Goku vs Jiren out of the water, by an absolutely ridiculous margin. They aren't even remotely comparable. The action in the film is absolutely nutty, even the less well done segments of the action are still really ambitious.
Like I said, I haven't seen the film, but Goku vs Jiren is pretty damn incredible. I'll wait and see if I share the same view of the comparison when I see it in a month.
That fight was pretty, but not really interesting to watch.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by PFM18 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:00 am

supersaiyanZero wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
JazzMazz wrote: From what I've seen of the fight, it blows Goku vs Jiren out of the water, by an absolutely ridiculous margin. They aren't even remotely comparable. The action in the film is absolutely nutty, even the less well done segments of the action are still really ambitious.
Like I said, I haven't seen the film, but Goku vs Jiren is pretty damn incredible. I'll wait and see if I share the same view of the comparison when I see it in a month.
That fight was pretty, but not really interesting to watch.
I couldn't disagree more, but this isn't the thread for that. This is the animation thread.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by Amir » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:49 am

I've seen it, the animation is way better than 130 including the Shida cut imo.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by jjgp1112 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:25 pm

This one's a doozy:

Image

I love that Dragon Ball actually looks like Dragon Ball again.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by Doctor. » Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:31 pm

Yeah, zero issues with that cover. Looks fantastic.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by emperior » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:59 pm

Shintani is such a blessing to Dragon Ball. That cover above, along the other one showing Goku Blue against Broly, are fantastic.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by PFM18 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:25 pm

emperior wrote:Shintani is such a blessing to Dragon Ball. That cover above, along the other one showing Goku Blue against Broly, are fantastic.
Let's hope he continues to be that blessing. If the Broly movie doesn't perform as well as they expected, they have no incentive to produce better art and animation like Shintani's.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by Shaddy » Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:57 pm

Incorrect. Internally the designs are still far more efficient to work with, far better respected by the staff and likely planned to overtake the anime's aesthetic from the start. The backlash given to Super's art is a product of both the character designs and the schedule, both of which were a priority of this film. Toei isn't perfect, but unless they literally forget every piece of criticism levied at Dragon Ball's visuals in the last near-decade, they'd know better than to switch the designs back to the old Yamamuro's ones just because this film doesn't blow every record away, especially since it's going to do great regardless. This is especially evident given Yamamuro himself is attached mostly to the Heroes sub series (the perfect place for him, really). It's unlikely that they'll replace Shintani at all, but if they do, it'll be with someone like him either way.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by DainIronfoot » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:22 pm

Doctor. wrote:Yeah, zero issues with that cover. Looks fantastic.

That's Shintani? Doesn't look like him to me based on his Gogeta Blue design from what I have seen.

I agree, that is a great cover. If it happens to be Shintani then I hope he continues to produce things like this and not derpy looking pieces of art.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by emperior » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:24 am

PFM18 wrote:
emperior wrote:Shintani is such a blessing to Dragon Ball. That cover above, along the other one showing Goku Blue against Broly, are fantastic.
Let's hope he continues to be that blessing. If the Broly movie doesn't perform as well as they expected, they have no incentive to produce better art and animation like Shintani's.
The movie’s already a success internally. It has received a lot of praise, by Toei’s president too and by basically every single reviewer. I haven’t read anyone not praising the movie’s art style.
Even if the art style wasn’t as successful as it has been, keep in mind that Shintani worked on the designs for more than a year, and he even received Toriyama’s feedback and corrections. And Shintani was personally picked by Toriyama.
It would be stupid for them to trash all these good designs, which work especially well for a long running show, just because the movie didn’t break all kind of records in Japan - as it was also clear that they expect the movie to be much more successful overseas.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by Michsi » Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:04 am

emperior wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
emperior wrote:Shintani is such a blessing to Dragon Ball. That cover above, along the other one showing Goku Blue against Broly, are fantastic.
Let's hope he continues to be that blessing. If the Broly movie doesn't perform as well as they expected, they have no incentive to produce better art and animation like Shintani's.
The movie’s already a success internally. It has received a lot of praise, by Toei’s president too and by basically every single reviewer. I haven’t read anyone not praising the movie’s art style.
Even if the art style wasn’t as successful as it has been, keep in mind that Shintani worked on the designs for more than a year, and he even received Toriyama’s feedback and corrections. And Shintani was personally picked by Toriyama.
It would be stupid for them to trash all these good designs, which work especially well for a long running show, just because the movie didn’t break all kind of records in Japan - as it was also clear that they expect the movie to be much more successful overseas.
My fear is that this was only meant as a one-time event style-wise and not necessarily a test run to see if audiences would be receptive to this change.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by mute_proxy » Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:13 am

Michsi wrote: My fear is that this was only meant as a one-time event style-wise and not necessarily a test run to see if audiences would be receptive to this change.
If you think that they're not planning to put out a movie quality anime series, you're not wrong. Adjusting the drawing style on the other hand does not require extra funding.
Last edited by mute_proxy on Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by JazzMazz » Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:14 am

mute_proxy wrote:
Michsi wrote:
emperior wrote: The movie’s already a success internally. It has received a lot of praise, by Toei’s president too and by basically every single reviewer. I haven’t read anyone not praising the movie’s art style.
Even if the art style wasn’t as successful as it has been, keep in mind that Shintani worked on the designs for more than a year, and he even received Toriyama’s feedback and corrections. And Shintani was personally picked by Toriyama.
It would be stupid for them to trash all these good designs, which work especially well for a long running show, just because the movie didn’t break all kind of records in Japan - as it was also clear that they expect the movie to be much more successful overseas.
My fear is that this was only meant as a one-time event style-wise and not necessarily a test run to see if audiences would be receptive to this change.
If you think that they're not planning to put out a movie quality series, you're not wrong. Adjusting the drawing style on the other hand does not require extra funding.
Its also not impossible to pull off like making a movie quality (ongoing) series is, especially considering the nature of DB shows.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

Post by Shaddy » Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:01 pm

I mean, while making something as constantly fluid as this obviously won't happen, I think in general when Super comes back or it'll compare more favorably on average when compared to this film than Super previously did compared to Battle of Gods and Resurrection F.
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