If Toriyama had written Super in 1995

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Fizzer
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If Toriyama had written Super in 1995

Post by Fizzer » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:07 am

Imagine a parallel universe where Akira Toriyama, approaching his conclusion to the Buu arc in the manga, feels like he wants to keep going. He's enjoyed his time without editors coming down on him so hard and his return to a more comedic style of Dragon Ball. He's found a newenergy and he has some interesting ideas taking form in his head. A God of Destruction, 12 Universes, a subversion of the Super Saiyan trend, an enormous tournament.

How do you think things might have gone? What would this have meant for the story, the franchise as a whole, and all that's happened since?

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Re: If Toriyama had written Super in 1995

Post by BWri » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:19 am

Fizzer wrote:Imagine a parallel universe where Akira Toriyama, approaching his conclusion to the Buu arc in the manga, feels like he wants to keep going. He's enjoyed his time without editors coming down on him so hard and his return to a more comedic style of Dragon Ball. He's found a newenergy and he has some interesting ideas taking form in his head. A God of Destruction, 12 Universes, a subversion of the Super Saiyan trend, an enormous tournament.

How do you think things might have gone? What would this have meant for the story, the franchise as a whole, and all that's happened since?
That's a tough one to think about, because I don't think anything would be the same as it is now. Even the God of Destruction and Super Saiyan God ideas probably wouldn't exist. Then there's the influence that Toei and Toyotaro added to the lore. We can safely say that Toriyama wouldn't be working with Toyoraro which eliminates many ToP characters and possibly Zamasu since that's so close to Toyble's idea of a rogue kai.

So let's say this, let's say Toriyama is approached by Toei to start a new series like Super and in the same way, he wouldn't have to draw the manga but merely sketch new designs and pitch new ideas. I think Toriyama himself would want to keep things relevant to the EoZ. I think he'd just continue after that and Toei would want to make GT, so I think we'd get GT again only with more Toriyama magic. I could see Frieza coming back like he did in Super. I can't see him creating the ToP back then.

*edit - I didn't focus on the part of your question saying Toriyama has new energy and ideas. If this is the case and it leads him to drawing more manga, I could see more stuff like in the Buu saga, wacky hijinks and action. I could also see him adding his characters like Jaco and Beelzebub from Sandland in DBZ (if he had those ideas back then).
Big fan of the characters of Dragon Ball, all of them, especially formerly prominent sub-characters. -__-

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Re: If Toriyama had written Super in 1995

Post by PsionicWarrior » Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:44 am

It's really impossible to tell but I think he would have made an arc without Goku being away training with Uub and eventually develop more Trunks, Goten and Pan and give them an arc until a new threat comes and is totally OP then Goku comes back and save the day again lol

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Re: If Toriyama had written Super in 1995

Post by TheMikado » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:30 am

BWri wrote:
Fizzer wrote:Imagine a parallel universe where Akira Toriyama, approaching his conclusion to the Buu arc in the manga, feels like he wants to keep going. He's enjoyed his time without editors coming down on him so hard and his return to a more comedic style of Dragon Ball. He's found a newenergy and he has some interesting ideas taking form in his head. A God of Destruction, 12 Universes, a subversion of the Super Saiyan trend, an enormous tournament.

How do you think things might have gone? What would this have meant for the story, the franchise as a whole, and all that's happened since?
That's a tough one to think about, because I don't think anything would be the same as it is now. Even the God of Destruction and Super Saiyan God ideas probably wouldn't exist. Then there's the influence that Toei and Toyotaro added to the lore. We can safely say that Toriyama wouldn't be working with Toyoraro which eliminates many ToP characters and possibly Zamasu since that's so close to Toyble's idea of a rogue kai.

So let's say this, let's say Toriyama is approached by Toei to start a new series like Super and in the same way, he wouldn't have to draw the manga but merely sketch new designs and pitch new ideas. I think Toriyama himself would want to keep things relevant to the EoZ. I think he'd just continue after that and Toei would want to make GT, so I think we'd get GT again only with more Toriyama magic. I could see Frieza coming back like he did in Super. I can't see him creating the ToP back then.

*edit - I didn't focus on the part of your question saying Toriyama has new energy and ideas. If this is the case and it leads him to drawing more manga, I could see more stuff like in the Buu saga, wacky hijinks and action. I could also see him adding his characters like Jaco and Beelzebub from Sandland in DBZ (if he had those ideas back then).
This is pretty much it. I feel like Toriyama wants to return to “gag” manga which is why it feel like a lot of Super is more silly than the height of DB shonen and why he seems to hyper focus on it. If Toei continued it with Toriyamas input and influence we’d get the first half of GT. Tons of callbacks to Pilaf, jokes, silliness, and relevance of the Dragonballs.

If Toriyama was expanding on “Z” not creating a new series we’d get a more action/fighting oriented progression and would probably feel something more along the lines of Dragonball Online.

Also as far as Frieza, he makes an appearance in both GT and DB online (well Freeza's Army at least). As someone who really really really detests Frieza as a character, him and his influence coming back so often and permeating so many aspects of series is starting to turn me off.

Prediction: Frieza and his army at the “real” reason for the original Namekian die off which prompted the nameless Namekian to send his son to Earth (ala Bardock...) and the whole reason for earth even having Dragonballs in the first place revolves around Frieza...

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Re: If Toriyama had written Super in 1995

Post by BWri » Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:55 pm

TheMikado wrote: This is pretty much it. I feel like Toriyama wants to return to “gag” manga which is why it feel like a lot of Super is more silly than the height of DB shonen and why he seems to hyper focus on it. If Toei continued it with Toriyamas input and influence we’d get the first half of GT. Tons of callbacks to Pilaf, jokes, silliness, and relevance of the Dragonballs.
Yeah, that's the feeling I get from it. I think it'd be better than the GT we got, which always felt a little soul-less to me, but it would likely hit the same beats.
If Toriyama was expanding on “Z” not creating a new series we’d get a more action/fighting oriented progression and would probably feel something more along the lines of Dragonball Online.
Oooh! This is what I want. I wish Toei would push him in this direction, but ever since they've created the Gods of Destruction they've been going further and further into the pantheon. From what I've seen of DBS: Broly, it looks to be at least taking steps to expand ideas and lore from Z. Hopefully Super gives us more of that whenever it comes back because that's what I really really want. Stuff like the Namekian cataclysm you mentioned below.
Also as far as Frieza, he makes an appearance in both GT and DB online (well Freeza's Army at least). As someone who really really really detests Frieza as a character, him and his influence coming back so often and permeating so many aspects of series is starting to turn me off.
Initially how I felt about Vegeta after he killed that whole village of Namekians then got the good guy treatment. Frieza's overall presence in the series is somewhat justified by his universal influence and connection to Beerus. I think its okay if he's doing his own thing as long as they don't shoehorn him into too much or kill him off pointlessly and for the love of Kami, don't redeem the scumbag.
Prediction: Frieza and his army at the “real” reason for the original Namekian die off which prompted the nameless Namekian to send his son to Earth (ala Bardock...) and the whole reason for earth even having Dragonballs in the first place revolves around Frieza...
I hope not. I wouldn't be terribly upset if King Cold had something to do with it because I find his place in the lore more fascinating than Frieza's, but honestly even that wouldn't make a lot of sense.

Frieza lost of lot of his appeal to me after Namek. On Namek I could buy that he was this smooth operating universal businessman with far reaching plans of conquest. Since then he seems a lot less intelligent. Cold though, still has that intrigue as the guy who had his hands in shaping the universe in a lot of ways. This guy knew about freaking Majin Buu. Stands to reason that he's seen and heard some s*** in his long lifetime.
Big fan of the characters of Dragon Ball, all of them, especially formerly prominent sub-characters. -__-

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