I Just Realized that Gogeta Is Far Stronger than Previously Thought

[Jmass97]

I was doing my own scaling and originally had Gogeta above Jiren and Broly, having his base form at a low ball be at or slightly higher than ssj blue Goku and Vegeta individually. Then I remembered that a fusion warriors base is higher than each fusee’s strongest transformation and in technicality that is ssj blue evolution. We see it in the anime AND there is a version of it in the manga. Even if you don’t want to say it’s blue evolution in the manga it is still an evolved blue form that surpasses the power of “regular” perfected ssj blue by a good margin. So with that being said Gogeta’s base would actually scale to that which is insane!

[Trouser]

There is no such thing as "Blue Evolution", etc. in Toriyama's continuation. Gogeta is SSGSS and just SSGSS.

[Jmass97]

There is no such thing as "Blue Evolution", etc. in Toriyama's continuation. Gogeta is SSGSS and just SSGSS.

I understand the whole Toriyama’a continuation thing and it wasn’t in the movies script however, if we’re adding it to the lore and canonicity of both mediums, he writes and approves what Toyotarō draws the manga and approves what Toei puts into the anime. In both continuations Vegeta surpasses blue. I’m not saying Gogeta went blue evolution because he didn’t. What I’m saying is his base would scale to that transformation given that it’s in the anime AND there is a VERSION of it in the manga. That is a fact. The movie is based on both the anime and the manga continuations so I need a really good reason to believe that this couldn’t be taken into consideration at the very least.

[Hugo Boss]

[...] I remembered that a fusion warriors base is higher than each fusee’s strongest transformation [...]

Did I miss something? As far as I remember fusions function as AxB.

[Jmass97]

[...] I remembered that a fusion warriors base is higher than each fusee’s strongest transformation [...]

Did I miss something? As far as I remember fusions function as AxB.

I mean yeah that’s what the Daiz says and it’s not going against what’s been shown multiple times. It’s been said that Vegito from Z in base is stronger than ssj3 Goku. It was shown that base Kefla is stronger than berserk kale and it was shown that base Gogeta was knocking away Ssj Broly’s blasts with a smile and was dodging his attacks with ease. Base Vegito in the FT Arc (manga) was also called a new form by Zamasu and blew his arm off even easier that perfected blue Goku did with the hakai technique. Also, if you made Gogeta’s base blue Goku times Blue Vegeta that would be stronger than what I’m stating anyway?

[theherodjl]

Why exactly would Base Gogeta be automatically stronger than SSJBE? We saw that Gogeta was stronger than ordinary SSJB but nothing in the film indicated that he was comparable to or had surpassed SSJBE. Base Gogeta merely dodged all of Broly's attacks and didn't mount an offensive until going SSJ, suggesting that base form granted only enough power to play on defense.

[Jmass97]

Why exactly would Base Gogeta be automatically stronger than SSJBE? We saw that Gogeta was stronger than ordinary SSJB but nothing in the film indicated that he was comparable to or had surpassed SSJBE. Base Gogeta merely dodged all of Broly's attacks and didn't mount an offensive until going SSJ, suggesting that base form granted only enough power to play on defense.

Well it’s just a thought. I just thought it was interesting considering that despite what you just mentioned, there’s still nothing proving that he isn’t because when you do proper scaling (revolushane has videos on this) blue evolution wouldn’t stack up to ssj Broly anyway so...

[Hugo Boss]

if you made Gogeta’s base blue Goku times Blue Vegeta that would be stronger than what I’m stating anyway?

Actually, Base Gogeta/Vegetto would be Base Goku x Base Vegeta. This information is in the Super Exciting Guides, not in the Daizenshuu books. That is assuming the people fusing are perfectly compatible like Goku and Vegeta.

[Polyphase Avatron]

if you made Gogeta’s base blue Goku times Blue Vegeta that would be stronger than what I’m stating anyway?

Actually, Base Gogeta/Vegetto would be Base Goku x Base Vegeta. This information is in the Super Exciting Guides, not in the Daizenshuu books. That is assuming the people fusing are perfectly compatible like Goku and Vegeta.

That never really made sense to me, because that would vary a lot based on what numerical scale you used. For example, say that character A has a power level of 100 in Scale X, and 10 in scale Y, while character B has a power level of 200 in scale X, and 20 in scale Y.

If you use scale X, their multiplied power level is 20,000, while using scale Y it's 200. And if Scale X is only 10 times scale Y, then that's a 10x difference.

I like Vados' explanation that it is 'the combined power of both fighters, multiplied many tens of times over', as that makes more sense to me.

[Hugo Boss]

I like Vados' explanation that it is 'the combined power of both fighters, multiplied many tens of times over', as that makes more sense to me.

Technically it’s just a convenient explanation to illustrate it isn’t simply adding numbers, while equally giving the notion that fusion’s power-up is vague and unpredictable. But I like the SEG info more, because it gives the sense that the stronger Goku and Vegeta get, more ridiculous the result is when they merge together.

It would jive well with the implication that Super Vegetto/Gogeta was weaker than SSGod Goku in DBZ Battle of Gods, while Base Vegetto/Gogeta in DBS Broli transcends that level.

[emperior]

Fusion can’t possibly be Fusee A times Fusee B. That would be way, way too much. Super Saiyan being a 50 times multiplier is already a lot. Two fighters with power levels in the billions fusing would be exceedingly high.

It makes much more sense to go by what Vados said in Super, so fusion is A + B times X, with X being plot-decided.

Also, the notion that a base form of a fusion is always stronger than the strongest of the fusees at their strongest has never been a thing officially stated in any Dragon Ball material.

Gogeta is still quite OP by the way, no doubt about it. His base form could keep up a bit with a Broly who was pummeling two Super Saiyan Blue at once, so it’s safe to assume that base Gogeta is probably stronger than both Blue Goku and Blue Vegeta individually.

[Hugo Boss]

It makes much more sense to go by what Vados said in Super, so fusion is A + B times X, with X being plot-decided.

How would you explain that fusion is at the same time weaker and stronger than SSGod?

[emperior]

It makes much more sense to go by what Vados said in Super, so fusion is A + B times X, with X being plot-decided.

How would you explain that fusion is at the same time weaker and stronger than SSGod?

Was Kefla ever weaker than SSG?

[Hugo Boss]

Was Kefla ever weaker than SSG?

I’m talking about the level fusion would have if Goku had used against Beerus in their first bout. It was (sorta) implied SSGod would be stronger.

[Peach]

There is no such thing as "Blue Evolution", etc. in Toriyama's continuation. Gogeta is SSGSS and just SSGSS.

It's in the manga now.

[GodVegetto91]

Fusion can’t possibly be Fusee A times Fusee B. That would be way, way too much. Super Saiyan being a 50 times multiplier is already a lot. Two fighters with power levels in the billions fusing would be exceedingly high.

It makes much more sense to go by what Vados said in Super, so fusion is A + B times X, with X being plot-decided.

Also, the notion that a base form of a fusion is always stronger than the strongest of the fusees at their strongest has never been a thing officially stated in any Dragon Ball material.

Gogeta is still quite OP by the way, no doubt about it. His base form could keep up a bit with a Broly who was pummeling two Super Saiyan Blue at once, so it’s safe to assume that base Gogeta is probably stronger than both Blue Goku and Blue Vegeta individually.

Yet people have a problem with current Base Vegeta right now after 3 months of hard spirit control training being above these Blue levels.