So is Vegeta the new Piccolo?

[Magnificent Ponta]

Yeah, but it's good to take into account that the difference between Goku and Vegeta was never so astronomical at the beginning of an arc (assuming that this will be the case for the next saga after the Moro arc).

In the Boo saga he was off screen for most of the arc and during the BoG he was overcome only at the end (reaching Goku at the beginning of the next arc). Which means he needs a power up to stay relevant against the villains (especially since the next enemies will need to scale up to UI Goku).

In this case, Vegeta does not need to be as strong as Goku to be relevant to the story, but he needs to have close power to be relevant in the battles against the main villain. Most of the Z Fighters who didn't have this were sidelined from the plot (Piccolo, Gohan, Tien, Krillin)

Thanks for your reply. Firstly, I would say that at the moment, Dragon Ball Super seems to be pushing different kinds of power for Vegeta and Goku, so it may well be that any raw power differential between the two could become far less relevant than it has been hitherto. Hence why I've said to others that railing at the inevitable decline of Vegeta from this point is premature and unwarranted.

Secondly, the Buu arc is a great example of Vegeta serving the plot and getting his most iconic character arc in all of Dragon Ball, in spite of the fact that he is never relevant in terms of power, either to Goku or to the villain - that mere fact has him precipitate the crisis that makes the arc what it is in the first place, and he also serves a critical role in resolving the whole crisis over in the battle with Kid Buu, despite the fact that he's never anywhere near affecting the outcome in power or battling terms.

In short, there's plenty that Vegeta can still do, just like before, and I don't see any reason to think otherwise at this time.

[Xeno Goku Black]

In a few years Mastered Ultra Instinct will be fodder so that's not an issue.

[Matches Malone]

In a few years Mastered Ultra Instinct will be fodder so that's not an issue.

There's this too. I expect something new will be introduced within the next arc.

[precita]

It's times like this you think people have forgotten Piccolo's only wins for the entire span of DBZ was against Radditz where he needed Goku to hold him back, and a single Saibaman.

Piccolo never won a single fight from the time Vegeta/Nappa arrived till DBZ ended. Unless you count chopping Babidi in half but even then Boo restored him.

[GodPrince91]

what a horrible ending.

Vegeta's entire training was for the purpose of giving power to Goku? what kind of rivalry is that? bullshit. Atleast have both goku and vegeta land the final blow on moro together or working simultaneously in ways.

Why doesn't toriyama just have vegeta killed already and be over with it if they're going to keep disrespecting him like that?

[Kagari]

what a horrible ending.

Vegeta's entire training was for the purpose of giving power to Goku? what kind of rivalry is that? bullshit. Atleast have both goku and vegeta land the final blow on moro together or working simultaneously in ways.

Why doesn't toriyama just have vegeta killed already and be over with it if they're going to keep disrespecting him like that?

You should be happy he's not forgotten about like Goten and Trunks.

[GodPrince91]

what a horrible ending.

Vegeta's entire training was for the purpose of giving power to Goku? what kind of rivalry is that? bullshit. Atleast have both goku and vegeta land the final blow on moro together or working simultaneously in ways.

Why doesn't toriyama just have vegeta killed already and be over with it if they're going to keep disrespecting him like that?

You should be happy he's not forgotten about like Goten and Trunks.

I'm sitting here wondering why do you guys even support this garbage writing anymore? The entire plot serves to make goku look like the savior every time while everyone else is shafted

After gohan defeated cell in DBZ he was sidelined forever. I don't count his power up and fight against buu a win because ultimately it accomplished nothing. The story has focused on Goku and Vegeta from the Buu saga to dragon ball super up until the TOP and DBS Broly. Every one else was made so irrelevant.

And now given the power gap between MUI goku and vegeta, vegeta is shafted to become a pathetic support character for Gocow and will probably have no meaningful role at all in the coming arcs. How are they going to take a huge fan favorite character, prince of saiyans, and the character with arguably the most character development and sideline him into Goku's water boy? Its infuriating. Its inconsistent with Vegeta's character being prideful and stubborn about being the strongest character and a rival to Goku.

I believe its time to ditch toriyama's bullshit and start supporting more off canon animators like the Notorious Luke who animated Dragon Ball Deliverance, look it up on youtube.

[Kinokima]

Goku would not have been able to beat Moro without Vegeta and everyone else. Goku was literally getting crushed in Moro’s hand

Yes Goku provided the power to destroy the crystal but it was Piccolo’s idea, Vegeta’s technique, Uub’s god power, etc that all came together to get them the win.

Goku is the main character of the series though so yes he provided the final blow. I just find it strange to act like it’s bad writing if the main character kills the main bad guy when that is usually how it goes.


And yes Goku has pushed far ahead of Vegeta but it’s not like that has never happened before. It hasn’t stopped Vegeta in the past so not really sure why it should stop him now. Vegeta is never going to actually surpass Goku but I am pretty sure he will eventually catch up again.


And Vegeta supporting Goku when the Earth is about to be destroyed does not mean he lost his pride. Vegeta is still very prideful but he also can put that pride aside when it matters and can support Goku when that is their best hope . Vegeta is still Vegeta but he is also a better person than he once was.


I am honestly tired of how both fans and people who hate the character need to constantly bring Vegeta down because heaven forbid he hasn’t beaten a main villain.

[Matches Malone]

I am honestly tired of how both fans and people who hate the character need to constantly bring Vegeta down because heaven forbid he hasn’t beaten a main villain.

People seem to forget there's more to a character than landing the finishing blow on the main villain.

[Matches Malone]

Why doesn't toriyama just have vegeta killed already and be over with it if they're going to keep disrespecting him like that?

You do realize there's more to DB than just Vegeta, right ? The idea that he or Goku should do and take credit for everything makes no sense. The victory against Moro was a group effort, everyone was equally important in his defeat.

Piccolo gave Vegeta the idea to collect energy for Goku.
Vegeta was the one collecting the energy and giving it to Goku.
Jaco woke Buu up.
Dai Kaio tracked down Uub to give his energy to Vegeta.
Goku had the form necessary to break through Moro's defenses.

If you take one piece out of this equation, the entire plan falls apart. No one was disrespected, everyone was treated equally.

[HeroR]

Goku would not have been able to beat Moro without Vegeta and everyone else. Goku was literally getting crushed in Moro’s hand

Yes Goku provided the power to destroy the crystal but it was Piccolo’s idea, Vegeta’s technique, Uub’s god power, etc that all came together to get them the win.

Goku is the main character of the series though so yes he provided the final blow. I just find it strange to act like it’s bad writing if the main character kills the main bad guy when that is usually how it goes.


And yes Goku has pushed far ahead of Vegeta but it’s not like that has never happened before. It hasn’t stopped Vegeta in the past so not really sure why it should stop him now. Vegeta is never going to actually surpass Goku but I am pretty sure he will eventually catch up again.


And Vegeta supporting Goku when the Earth is about to be destroyed does not mean he lost his pride. Vegeta is still very prideful but he also can put that pride aside when it matters and can support Goku when that is their best hope . Vegeta is still Vegeta but he is also a better person than he once was.


I am honestly tired of how both fans and people who hate the character need to constantly bring Vegeta down because heaven forbid he hasn’t beaten a main villain.

I think the primarily problem is giving all the buildup Vegeta got with his whole taking Moro’s actions personally (which always felt artificial, but besides the point), his training that got an entire chapter showing his growth with Zarbon 2.0, and how they built UI Sign falling, having Vegeta’s payoff being one fight, then Moro eats 73, basically one-shots Vegeta, and then him doing a bootleg Spirit Bomb to re-powered Goku is very meh. The buildup didn’t match the pay off.

As a Goku fan, Goku felt force being the primary rival of Moro after he ate 73. It’s a very common problem Toyo has when Goku is the least important main character only to be inserted into the finale. And UI shouldn’t have been the answer to Moro’s magic since dodging shouldn’t beat energy draining to the point Toyo retcon how Moro’s magic work since he clearly had an area effect on Namek and drained Goku and Vegeta twice before they realized something was wrong.

If Toyo wanted Goku to have the main role, he should have cut down on Vegeta’s training and focused on building the relationship between Merus and Goku and show more of their training. That way we would feel real emotions when Merus died and the expectations for Vegeta wouldn’t have been so high.

But the biggest issue I have despite all the above is why did Toyo make a big deal of Spirit Fission breaking a fusion and Vegeta then loses to a fusion. Like why couldn’t Vegeta de-fused Moro from the Earth and why introduced this if you were never going to use it? Just to have an excuse as to why Goku and Vegeta didn’t fuse, super lame.

Also as a nitpick, for someone known for their godlike endurance, he went to one Big Bang. Not just go down, but lost consciousness. Same guy who got blasted by a Kaioken x4 Kaioken, Kamehameha hit by a gimp Spirit Bomb, cut with a sword, and had a Great Ape crush and still managed to call his ship and escape, knocked clean out with one energy attack. And I just don’t mean the Saiyan Saga, Vegeta is infamous for getting his shit kicked in and still going, which is why I was surprised he got knocked out by his own attack no less.

[Kinokima]

Goku would not have been able to beat Moro without Vegeta and everyone else. Goku was literally getting crushed in Moro’s hand

Yes Goku provided the power to destroy the crystal but it was Piccolo’s idea, Vegeta’s technique, Uub’s god power, etc that all came together to get them the win.

Goku is the main character of the series though so yes he provided the final blow. I just find it strange to act like it’s bad writing if the main character kills the main bad guy when that is usually how it goes.


And yes Goku has pushed far ahead of Vegeta but it’s not like that has never happened before. It hasn’t stopped Vegeta in the past so not really sure why it should stop him now. Vegeta is never going to actually surpass Goku but I am pretty sure he will eventually catch up again.


And Vegeta supporting Goku when the Earth is about to be destroyed does not mean he lost his pride. Vegeta is still very prideful but he also can put that pride aside when it matters and can support Goku when that is their best hope . Vegeta is still Vegeta but he is also a better person than he once was.


I am honestly tired of how both fans and people who hate the character need to constantly bring Vegeta down because heaven forbid he hasn’t beaten a main villain.

I think the primarily problem is giving all the buildup Vegeta got with his whole taking Moro’s actions personally (which always felt artificial, but besides the point), his training that got an entire chapter showing his growth with Zarbon 2.0, and how they built UI Sign falling, having Vegeta’s payoff being one fight, then Moro eats 73, basically one-shots Vegeta, and then him doing a bootleg Spirit Bomb to re-powered Goku is very meh. The buildup didn’t match the pay off.

As a Goku fan, Goku felt force being the primary rival of Moro after he ate 73. It’s a very common problem Toyo has when Goku is the least important main character only to be inserted into the finale. And UI shouldn’t have been the answer to Moro’s magic since dodging shouldn’t beat energy draining to the point Toyo retcon how Moro’s magic work since he clearly had an area effect on Namek and drained Goku and Vegeta twice before they realized something was wrong.

If Toyo wanted Goku to have the main role, he should have cut down on Vegeta’s training and focused on building the relationship between Merus and Goku and show more of their training. That way we would feel real emotions when Merus died and the expectations for Vegeta wouldn’t have been so high.

But the biggest issue I have despite all the above is why did Toyo make a big deal of Spirit Fission breaking a fusion and Vegeta then loses to a fusion. Like why couldn’t Vegeta de-fused Moro from the Earth and why introduced this if you were never going to use it? Just to have an excuse as to why Goku and Vegeta didn’t fuse, super lame.

Also as a nitpick, for someone known for their godlike endurance, he went to one Big Bang. Not just go down, but lost consciousness. Same guy who got blasted by a Kaioken x4 Kaioken, Kamehameha hit by a gimp Spirit Bomb, cut with a sword, and had a Great Ape crush and still managed to call his ship and escape, knocked clean out with one energy attack. And I just don’t mean the Saiyan Saga, Vegeta is infamous for getting his shit kicked in and still going, which is why I was surprised he got knocked out by his own attack no less.

I mean Goku was also one shotted by Moro after he absorbed 7:3. Then Merus came out and died and then Goku got UI .

So before Goku got UI, Omen was also no match for Moro who had absorbed 7:3. Goku was literally on the verge of death until he was healed by Dende. Moro knocked out everyone in that scene not just Vegeta.

Also while the main thing Vegeta did was take the energy and give it to Goku his spirit fission also helped so the crystal didn’t get completely absorbed into Moro’s body. So he was defusing him from the Earth there was just a limitation to it based on Vegeta’s current power level. Moro had literally absorbed an Angel’s power at that point. Regardless Vegeta may not have got the win but he was still an integral component of it. We also don’t know how Vegeta’s spirit fission will play out in the future, so I don’t think showing him training was a waste.


The only thing I somewhat agree with you Is UI being used to beat Moro a magical being who can steal energy just seems like a boring conclusion to me . I don’t like the conclusion coming down to raw power. Which is why I am glad Goku didn’t win by himself just with UI (although the way he lost to come to this conclusion was also very forced) . I also feel Goku mastered UI too soon and now the power ceiling is ridiculously high. But it is what it is.

[Chuquita]

Unless a new character comes along, takes the "Goku's rival" role and sticks around as part of the main cast on Earth for more than just the arc they were introduced in so as to become a part of the Z team, I think Vegeta's safe.

Hit, Jiren, and Brolli were all options for a replacement-Vegeta and none of them stuck around the way Vegeta decided to live on Earth instead of leaving to go off and do his own thing in outer space. Hit and Jiren chose to stay with the lifestyles they were introduced with. Vegeta could've continued being a space pirate, but he chose Goku. The story left Brolli on Planet Banpa and even though Goku teased visiting him at the end of the movie that plot point was immediately dropped once the Moro arc began.

Most characters that were at one time Goku's rival-eventually-turned-friend (Krillin, Tenshinhan, Piccolo, Vegeta) remained in his orbit after their initial encounter.


Also Vegeta's got decades of nostalgia (tenure?) on his side making replacing him near-impossible. GT was only able to drop him for the majority of its run because it was created right on the heels of Z and without nostalgia holding them back they were able to take more risks (for better or worse).

[HeroR]

Goku would not have been able to beat Moro without Vegeta and everyone else. Goku was literally getting crushed in Moro’s hand

Yes Goku provided the power to destroy the crystal but it was Piccolo’s idea, Vegeta’s technique, Uub’s god power, etc that all came together to get them the win.

Goku is the main character of the series though so yes he provided the final blow. I just find it strange to act like it’s bad writing if the main character kills the main bad guy when that is usually how it goes.


And yes Goku has pushed far ahead of Vegeta but it’s not like that has never happened before. It hasn’t stopped Vegeta in the past so not really sure why it should stop him now. Vegeta is never going to actually surpass Goku but I am pretty sure he will eventually catch up again.


And Vegeta supporting Goku when the Earth is about to be destroyed does not mean he lost his pride. Vegeta is still very prideful but he also can put that pride aside when it matters and can support Goku when that is their best hope . Vegeta is still Vegeta but he is also a better person than he once was.


I am honestly tired of how both fans and people who hate the character need to constantly bring Vegeta down because heaven forbid he hasn’t beaten a main villain.

I think the primarily problem is giving all the buildup Vegeta got with his whole taking Moro’s actions personally (which always felt artificial, but besides the point), his training that got an entire chapter showing his growth with Zarbon 2.0, and how they built UI Sign falling, having Vegeta’s payoff being one fight, then Moro eats 73, basically one-shots Vegeta, and then him doing a bootleg Spirit Bomb to re-powered Goku is very meh. The buildup didn’t match the pay off.

As a Goku fan, Goku felt force being the primary rival of Moro after he ate 73. It’s a very common problem Toyo has when Goku is the least important main character only to be inserted into the finale. And UI shouldn’t have been the answer to Moro’s magic since dodging shouldn’t beat energy draining to the point Toyo retcon how Moro’s magic work since he clearly had an area effect on Namek and drained Goku and Vegeta twice before they realized something was wrong.

If Toyo wanted Goku to have the main role, he should have cut down on Vegeta’s training and focused on building the relationship between Merus and Goku and show more of their training. That way we would feel real emotions when Merus died and the expectations for Vegeta wouldn’t have been so high.

But the biggest issue I have despite all the above is why did Toyo make a big deal of Spirit Fission breaking a fusion and Vegeta then loses to a fusion. Like why couldn’t Vegeta de-fused Moro from the Earth and why introduced this if you were never going to use it? Just to have an excuse as to why Goku and Vegeta didn’t fuse, super lame.

Also as a nitpick, for someone known for their godlike endurance, he went to one Big Bang. Not just go down, but lost consciousness. Same guy who got blasted by a Kaioken x4 Kaioken, Kamehameha hit by a gimp Spirit Bomb, cut with a sword, and had a Great Ape crush and still managed to call his ship and escape, knocked clean out with one energy attack. And I just don’t mean the Saiyan Saga, Vegeta is infamous for getting his shit kicked in and still going, which is why I was surprised he got knocked out by his own attack no less.

I mean Goku was also one shotted by Moro after he absorbed 7:3. Then Merus came out and died and then Goku got UI .

So before Goku got UI, Omen was also no match for Moro who had absorbed 7:3. Goku was literally on the verge of death until he was healed by Dende. Moro knocked out everyone in that scene not just Vegeta.

Also while the main thing Vegeta did was take the energy and give it to Goku his spirit fission also helped so the crystal didn’t get completely absorbed into Moro’s body. So he was defusing him from the Earth there was just a limitation to it based on Vegeta’s current power level. Moro had literally absorbed an Angel’s power at that point. Regardless Vegeta may not have got the win but he was still an integral component of it. We also don’t know how Vegeta’s spirit fission will play out in the future, so I don’t think showing him training was a waste.


The only thing I somewhat agree with you Is UI being used to beat Moro a magical being who can steal energy just seems like a boring conclusion to me . I don’t like the conclusion coming down to raw power. Which is why I am glad Goku didn’t win by himself just with UI (although the way he lost to come to this conclusion was also very forced) . I also feel Goku mastered UI too soon and now the power ceiling is ridiculously high. But it is what it is.

Goku had an arm ripped thought his chest. That isn't the same level of injury Vegeta got giving that a similar wound killed Goku in Z. If anything, it showed off Goku's durability since he didn't die. Remember everyone thought Moro killed Goku.

Yeah, and it was pretty lame. Not sure what your point is here, honestly.

What does Goku getting a hand ripped through him have to do with Vegeta losing to one Big Bang? And I wasn't talking about everyone else. I am talking about Vegeta because he is infamous for his godlike endurance. That includes getting his face beating in by Kid Buu and still being conscious.

I actually have a issues with that gem scene since Goku with UI, which allows him to move without thinking, should have been able to blintz Moro before that crystal fully sank it. They also never explained why Goku couldn't just used a Kamehameha instead of punching Moro. From what we saw, Moro can eat energy, but only through his mouth and the gem is on the top of his head. That and how did Vegeta even know about hitting the gem since he wasn't even around when Whis explained what Goku needed to do and Vegeta had no dealings with 73 to fully understand how his copy power worked, at least no more than Goku. And now that I think about it, why didn't Goku IT over to Moro and punch him instead of Supermaning through Moro's hands. Basically, do what Vegetto did to Merge Zamasu in the anime.

According to Vegeta, he wasn't defusing Moro, just removing spirits, just like he did before to make Moro old again. They never explained why Vegeta couldn't removed 73. It was also said that Vegeta's ability to removed fusion was based on him inflicting damage, which he was clearly doing when he punched the Earth despite Moro having Merus' power, so by the statements made in the manga, Vegeta should have been able to removed 73.

On the 'in the future', giving that Toyo is the same person who never mentioned the Evil Containment Wave as an option against Moro, even it doesn't work for some reason, and pretended that Goku doesn't have Hakai (yes, Goku wouldn't necessarily used it, but the fact is he had an instant win against Moro that is literally never brought up), I don't trust Toyo not to gimp Spirit Fission. I mean, he already did in this very arc.

[Kinokima]

Goku had an arm ripped thought his chest. That isn't the same level of injury Vegeta got giving that a similar wound killed Goku in Z. If anything, it showed off Goku's durability since he didn't die. Remember everyone thought Moro killed Goku.

Yeah, and it was pretty lame. Not sure what your point is here, honestly.

What does Goku getting a hand ripped through him have to do with Vegeta losing to one Big Bang? And I wasn't talking about everyone else. I am talking about Vegeta because he is infamous for his godlike endurance. That includes getting his face beating in by Kid Buu and still being conscious.

And I am not really sure what your point is. The whole scene of Moro knocking out everyone was to show how powerful he was at that moment. You keep saying one Big Bang. It’s not the specific blast but also the person who is wielding it that gives it its power. Vegeta also wasn’t on the verge of death he was just knocked out. It’s not like Vegeta has never been knocked out before.

As for removing Moro from the Earth. He was removing him. Moro’s body was getting smaller. It’s just he didn’t have the power to do more because Moro was also draining him. I guess in a battle of attrition someone with Angel powers is going to eventually beat Vegeta who is much weaker than Moro.

As for knowing about the crystal I assume Vegeta overheard as he got there because Goku literally says he can’t get the crystal because Moro is getting bigger and bigger right before we see Vegeta. The same with the scene with Piccolo and the Z Warriors who know they need to get Ki to Goku.

As for the rest yeah I am sure they could have gone a lot of different routes but that’s often the case with the Dragon Ball.

[Koitsukai]

Vegeta was one-shot by Cell twice. Fat Buu didn't take long to subdue him either. Mr Satan had to carry Vegeta out of the field soon after he faced Buu.

There is nothing godlike about Vegeta's endurance. If he is stronger, he'll last longer like on Earth, if he is outclassed and against someone who is not toying with him, he is out.

[BWri]

The real question is, is Piccolo becoming the old Piccolo. Seems like he's slowly regaining his prominence. I said several years ago that the show just feels its best when he, Goku, and Vegeta are taking that leadership role such as during the Namek - Cell arcs. Hopefully he gets a big boost in strength to help solidify that role. For me, they are the Dragon Ball Trinity.

[precita]

Piccolo's role in early Super was pretty bad, he was barely treated any different than Gohan or Krillin were. He was showcased poorly in Movie 15 to the point where a Zarbon-tier henchmen was giving him trouble, and then in the anime version he dies. Then the U6 tournament he can't even get a single win and loses to Frost. Then does nothing in the Zamasu arc.

Even the Boo saga treated him with more importance despite lacking any real fight because of the mentor he was to Gotenks. Piccolo kinda suffered the same way Gohan and the other humans did in early Super, it remains to be seen if they can give him something better.

[BWri]

Piccolo's role in early Super was pretty bad, he was barely treated any different than Gohan or Krillin were. He was showcased poorly in Movie 15 to the point where a Zarbon-tier henchmen was giving him trouble, and then in the anime version he dies. Then the U6 tournament he can't even get a single win and loses to Frost. Then does nothing in the Zamasu arc.

U6 is the arc that disappointed me the most because I thought they were setting him up for a bigger role and he just ended up being fodder for the most part. It was a decent though lackluster setup to his return to prominence as a fighter though if his performance in the arcs after is any indication.

Even the Boo saga treated him with more importance despite lacking any real fight because of the mentor he was to Gotenks. Piccolo kinda suffered the same way Gohan and the other humans did in early Super, it remains to be seen if they can give him something better.

As a Piccolo fan, I thought he was treated rather well in this current arc. I initially figured they wouldn't use him at all outside of the cameo at the beginning. Him letting the Macareni Gang go felt uncharacteristically dumb and getting defeated and absorbed by 7-3 multiple times wasn't the best, but he got a significant amount of screentime including several big fights. He fought about as much as Goku and Vegeta did, maybe even more than Vegeta. And his increase in power after 2 months of training was quite substantial and in the end he greatly contributed to finishing off the big bad, more than just raising his hands. For how characters are normally treated in DB, this isn't a bad outcome at all .

[HeroR]

Goku had an arm ripped thought his chest. That isn't the same level of injury Vegeta got giving that a similar wound killed Goku in Z. If anything, it showed off Goku's durability since he didn't die. Remember everyone thought Moro killed Goku.

Yeah, and it was pretty lame. Not sure what your point is here, honestly.

What does Goku getting a hand ripped through him have to do with Vegeta losing to one Big Bang? And I wasn't talking about everyone else. I am talking about Vegeta because he is infamous for his godlike endurance. That includes getting his face beating in by Kid Buu and still being conscious.

And I am not really sure what your point is. The whole scene of Moro knocking out everyone was to show how powerful he was at that moment. You keep saying one Big Bang. It’s not the specific blast but also the person who is wielding it that gives it its power. Vegeta also wasn’t on the verge of death he was just knocked out. It’s not like Vegeta has never been knocked out before.

As for removing Moro from the Earth. He was removing him. Moro’s body was getting smaller. It’s just he didn’t have the power to do more because Moro was also draining him. I guess in a battle of attrition someone with Angel powers is going to eventually beat Vegeta who is much weaker than Moro.

As for knowing about the crystal I assume Vegeta overheard as he got there because Goku literally says he can’t get the crystal because Moro is getting bigger and bigger right before we see Vegeta. The same with the scene with Piccolo and the Z Warriors who know they need to get Ki to Goku.

As for the rest yeah I am sure they could have gone a lot of different routes but that’s often the case with the Dragon Ball.

The point is that I am not talking about anyone else but Vegeta, so you saying 'well, Goku went down in one hit' isn't the point especially the way Goku went down isn't even remotely similar. If Goku went down to one energy blast, then I would complaint about it. He didn't. He got a hole ripped through his chest and bled out. Something that actually killed him in the past.

And I never said anything about the 'verge of death' with Vegeta so you're side-stepping the point. He shouldn't be dead knockout from one energy blast giving Vegeta's history of taking absurd amounts of damage and still being conscious like him taking a Spirit Bomb point-blank, even a weakened one, after he was already badly injured from fighting Goku earlier, or how he kept taking while dying on Namek when he had a hole in his heart. At least when he was knocked out by 18 and Cell both broke bone, in the case of Cell he pretty much broke Vegeta's back.

He was removing Moro's energy, not Moro himself or even 73. It was no different than how Moro got older when Vegeta sucked the energy out of him. And 'Moro was also draining him'. This was stupid since all Vegeta had to do what float and punch the ground. He didn't have land.

Vegeta was a nice distance away before Whis even left and he isn't a Namekian. He shouldn't have heard the conversation. And the scene with the Z-Fighters have the same issue, although a bit more justified since they knew Moro was sucking energy through the Earth, but for some reason stopped after Goku got caught.

It usually isn't as blatant as this, especially when you have a form like UI that is all about dodging and attack without thinking and Goku's body decides to charge punch, not even dodged, the hands. It was forced drama.

Vegeta was one-shot by Cell twice. Fat Buu didn't take long to subdue him either. Mr Satan had to carry Vegeta out of the field soon after he faced Buu.

There is nothing godlike about Vegeta's endurance. If he is stronger, he'll last longer like on Earth, if he is outclassed and against someone who is not toying with him, he is out.

Cell never one-shotted Vegeta. It actually took about three hits from Cell before Vegeta lost consciousness since Vegeta was first knocked into the ocean before the Final Flash, slapped by Cell after he tried to shot rapid-fired ki blasts, kicked into the air, and then have his back broken.

Fat Buu literally tied him up and beat his head in for several minutes and he still regain consciousness fast without any healing. Kid Buu, Vegeta was basically beating into submission for several episodes/chapters and he still didn't lose consciousness. He even had the awareness to ask the Dragon Balls to restore Goku;s energy.