Is DBS Krillin On Par With Namek Freeza?

[theherodjl]

Not necessarily Freeza's 100% power but at least some degree of 4th Form Freeza? Krillin was able to be sensed by Goku in deep space which is a first for any Human character in DB.
...Or does Krillin still have some way to go?

[Matches Malone]

DBS Krillin managed to hold off a Kamehameha from Blue Goku, so at this point he's probably on Kid Buu's level

[theherodjl]

DBS Krillin managed to hold off a Kamehameha from Blue Goku, so at this point he's probably on Kid Buu's level

Anime Krillin, sure. The anime gives whatever increase for whichever character all for dramatic effect.
How about manga Krillin though?

[Polyphase Avatron]

Well when it comes to being sensed from a distance, power is only one factor. There's also how skilled/sensitive the person doing the sensing is (it makes sense that Goku has gotten better at it over the years), how familiar they are with that person's individual ki signature, how closely they are paying attention, if they are actively searching in a specific direction/area, etc.

[Aim]

DBS Krillin managed to hold off a Kamehameha from Blue Goku, so at this point he's probably on Kid Buu's level

Come on, Son was holding back ;-(

[Peach]

Yes. Krillin is a tank now.

It seems like the humans got an absurd boost in power for the tournament of power. Roshi in particular.

[Mister_Popo]

When Goku fought Krillin in the sparring match before the Tournament of Power, he was clearly holding back.
I have always seen it like Goku was using SSB at that point because of the perfected Ki-control of that form.
He could perfectly adapt to Krillins maximum power and fight him that way without killing him.

Krillin however has dramatically improved since DBZ Namek saga and he would immediately kill the Freeza of that era.
Speaking in terms of DBS: realistically, Krillin maybe can (temporary) hold his own against baseform Goku.
As soon as the stronger SSJ-forms let alone God-forms come into play, he probably becomes a bystander.

[SSJgogeto]

Well, IMO not.

That's just my assumptions, but I think Goku's power level in the anime is more or less 2 times bigger than Namek saga, so IMO he have something like 6M. I think Krillin is weaker (maybe 5M) so IMO Freeza will obliterate him without effort.

[precita]

It feels like the humans in general never really got much stronger than they were in the Cell saga. So take whatever Cell saga Krillin was and that's how he still is now.

[batistabus]

I very much doubt it, but we can never know for sure.

First, Kuririn doesn't train much during the DBS days. He has a full time job and a family, and lacks the drive of someone like Goku, so it's not a priority.

Second, I know fans like to think that every character surpasses the previous boss by the next arc, but I don't think Toriyama sees it that way. Sure, you can create logic out of X > Y = Z, but that's not something the writers take into consideration. That said, in my opinion, "power-scaling" logic CANNOT WORK for Dragon Ball in any truly logical way.

Here's an example: Sorbet wanted to resurrect Freeza because the army was in a sorry state of power compared to what it once was. Therefore, we can assume Shisami is weaker than Freeza was. Further evidence of this is when Freeza eliminates Tagoma instantly before his four months of training, as Shisami and Tagoma are said to be in the same league. Piccolo is much stronger than Kuririn, and Piccolo struggled with Shisami. But surely Piccolo must be stronger than Freeza, right? After combining with God, Piccolo is able to contend with No.17, who is stronger than (or at least comparable to) No.18, who is stronger than Super Saiyan 1 Vegeta, who is equal to Super Saiyan 1 Goku, who is stronger than Freeza. Unlike Kuririn, Piccolo trains and meditates regularly. In a time of peace, it's conceivable that he could get weaker too, but Piccolo's attitude towards martial arts isn't equal to that of Gohan....etc. etc. etc.

Finally, throughout all of Super (films and manga), Kuririn never demonstrates anything that would match Freeza's level of power. He is able to beat some grunts in RoF (with help from Jaco), and he is able to beat a prisoner or two in the GPP arc. Sure, Goku senses him from far off in space, but he was already beginning to sense the action on Earth.

Okay, so maybe he's slacking in Super. Was he ever at Freeza's level of power? After training with Kaio, he is far below Freeza. He trains leading up to the arrival of the Artificial Humans, but he doesn't fight much from then on out, and gets knocked around when he does. By the Boo arc, he is already in dad mode.

If you take the DBS (and even Z) anime into consideration - something that Toriyama provided an outline for, and not much else - it gets even more convoluted.

In summary, logic like this ends up an unproductive mess. I have nothing against fans that enjoy power-scaling discussions, but the results of those discussions hold absolutely no authority when it comes to the actual story. Read the work and decide what feels right to you!

[DBNamek]

Manga wise, there is no indication of Krillin being stronger than Freeza.

Anime wise, if you take the kamehameha clash with Goku at face value, sure, but I don't. that was one of toei's more inconsistencies. like how much was Goku holding back? Juts a weird thng for them to do.

[The Undying]

No. The best that Kuririn can do during the Super era is fight/defeat Freeza's goons, who were explicitly weaker than Shisami, who was explicitly on par with Zarbon and Dodoria. In Resurrection 'F', Freeza had his entire army quivering in their boots before he started training.

Namek Freeza is considerably more relevant to how Toriyama imagines the scaling than people think. There's a number of statements in modern DB that would support this, and he probably would have performed competently against most contenders in the Tournament of Power. The Saiyans and half Saiyans might have left him in the dust, but there's no reason to assume everyone did.

Piccolo was definitely nerfed though...

[Mister_Popo]

We musn't forget base Saiyan powers have gone up dramatically during DBZ.
There is a considerable difference between base Goku Freeza arc and Buu arc base Goku already.
In Super base Goku has improved a lot more, definitely in the anime.
Not to speak of how much the power scaling has gone through the roof with the new godly forms, MUI included.

Krillin is already pretty insignificant in terms of Super scaling in comparison to other major fighters.
Leaving DBS Krillin (TOP- or Moro-arc) at less than DBZ Freeza Namek-levels within the context of Super, makes him a total Pee-Wee Herman-fighter.
It's difficult to claim exactly how strong he is because he has very limited fighting time on screen during Super, but i prefer not too lowball him by that amount.

[ChronoTwigger]

As long someone will not explain exactly what "power level" is, and I mean physically, I can't understand those debates.
If power == strenght of impact, Krillin isn't unable to defeat my granny.
If power == skill of summoning inner strenght + reflexes + techniques+ speed, probably now Krillin can express a potential equal Goku SS1.
But sometime everything look more like a videogame or CCG. How much attack points got the Krillin card? Is a White card, 3 white mana 1 generical, 5/4, sacrifice him on your upkeep phase to put a "Boost" counter on any Goku card.
Playing on him the "Kaioh training" give him +2/+1. By "Sparring with illusions" Krillin can get +1/+1 protection from Black.

[Koitsukai]

By BoG, even base Goku wasn't strong enough to take on Namek Freeza, Krilin has not gotten anywhere close to that level, considering he's been retired for a long time, working and having a normal life.

At best, I think he can trade blows with initial FF Freeza. With a clever strategy, and with Freeza not powering up, he might take it, but I might be giving him too much credit.

[Super Murjin]

Agreed, not sure why fans think base Goku is some where way above the Namek/Frieza saga's power level.

Did anybody notice that Vegeta was able to tap into the power of a Super Saiyan in Dragon Ball Super Broly?
He had a gold aurora around his body in his base form, and then he started beating up on Broly more before fully using his Super Saiyan form.

That might explain how base Vegeta was able to defeat the likes of Majin Pui Pui who freaked out East Kaioshin back in the Buu saga.
Goku and Vegeta's base should be around or if not a bit higher than where they were on Namek, which means a foe at Frieza's level would be a challenge until they go Super Saiyan. The Super Saiyan Spectrum of power would go from Frieza at 80% to 100%-ish to around Perfect Cell's level. Then Super Saiyan 2's spectrum of power would be above Perfect Cell and would go as high as to around Kid Buu/Goku Super Saiyan 3's level. Then Super Saiyan 3's spectrum of power would go from Kid Buu/Fat Buu's level to maybe Super Buu's level. We've actually never really seen Super Saiyan 3 at full power like we did with Super Saiyan due to the heavy ki drain.

Super Saiyan God would be a considerable jump way above Super Saiyan 3. Pretty well anybody from the Z series would be greatly outmatched. Then Super Saiyan Blue would be a level upon Super Saiyan God with a pretty decently high spectrum of power being able to go head to head with the likes of Merged Zamasu (in the manga) with Super Saiyan Blue is Completed/Perfected.

Saiyan Beyond God (not official name used in the manga) .... would be base form Goku/Vegeta tapping into God Ki giving them a huge jump in power. But after they learned how to fully use the God Ki and display the aurora of a god similar to what Toppo did, then there is no need to use Saiyan Beyond God.

Krillin would be at best maybe around First Form Frieza, Second, maybe Third Form.

[Cipher]

Unless you think Kuririn is significantly stronger than the base Goku from Battle of Gods, whom Beerus clocks in under Freeza, no.

[Mister_Popo]

Even taking into account Gokus base power rose substantially during DBZ, it's possible, as stated by Beerus, he could still not defeat Freeza in his baseform during BOG. Let's assume in a best case scenario he is still slightly below Freeza at that point.

Thereafter during ROF both Goku and Vegeta trained their baseforms rigorously, even before they had access to godly ki.
So if base Goku did not surpass Namek Freeza at BOG, the chances are real he did at the end of ROF, taking into account the training he got from Whis. I don't presume he had SSG levels of strength in his baseform from U6 arc onwards (anime), but the intense strength training on Whis' planet (suits etc) nonetheless must have improved his base considerably. After the U6 and Zamasu arcs Goku should have become even stronger.

Krillin forced Goku into SSJ and SSB during that sparring match before TOP. That does not hold much sense if Krillin didn't at least pose a descent challenge for base TOP Goku, who i strongly suspect to be (substantially) stronger than Namek saga Freeza at that stage.

Supers scaling isn't always consistent and there is no clear explaination for this massive increase in power, but the others (even the humans Krillin and Roshi) somehow seem to 'grow along' with Goku and Vegeta, who are taking even much bigger steps.

[theherodjl]

Krillin would be at best maybe around First Form Frieza, Second, maybe Third Form.

Could 1st/2nd/3rd Form Freeza be sensed from deep space? Because Krillin definitely can.

[Magnificent Ponta]

Krillin would be at best maybe around First Form Frieza, Second, maybe Third Form.

Could 1st/2nd/3rd Form Freeza be sensed from deep space? Because Krillin definitely can.

But Goku is already looking for Earth, and he knows the general direction. He was also able to sense the Namekians from as far away as Kaio's, when told whereabouts to look - even collectively, that's a power of arguably much less than 300,000 (around 100 Namekians, most of whom have a power below 3,000).

I'm not saying that's any indication of what Kuririn's power might be; just that overall, I don't think Goku being able to detect Kuririn from afar is necessarily a particularly clear indication as to what the size of his ki might be.