Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Jinto » Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:01 pm

emperior wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:02 pm
FortuneSSJ wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:17 pm I would like the two mysterious characters to be older Goten and Trunks and this movie being the last story before we move past EOZ.
Mostly likely it will be a transformation from one of the saiyans and the villain final form.
I think that those are indeed Goten and Trunks. This month’s V-Jump should have some additional information about the movie so hopefully it will show the two. We know that Trunks’ VA is in the movie, and Trunks should definitely be aged up now so Goten should too.
I think Goten and Trunks will be in this movie but those mysterious character are definitely going to be C17 and C18.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Gt91 » Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:09 pm

Don't forget that there are more villans to come. They teased them on the official site sometime ago.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:37 pm

Maybe the Gammas will fuse.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Mister_Popo » Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:11 pm

Pafupafu wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:24 pm
It's pretty much a given that more films and a potential extension of the DBS series are on the way - this is a business workflow decision to be able to sustain that. Instead of starting from scratch each and every frame of each episode - they will have pre-rigged models built to simply drop in and animate. The initial results may not be the most ideal but the goal is to have an asset library that allows for even more quality animation once "over the hump" in initial production. This is the same business methodology used by Lucasfilm in 2008 for their Clone Wars CG series - use a film to justify the budget of the asset creation, then continue to build from there. Clone Wars is a prime example of how a series can evolve once over said hump. Efficiencies such as this lead to more time for quality work and creativity.


Of course, that is the objective. It does not make much sense to produce a brand new style '3D animation with 2 art' with all those new models, just for one movie. That investment costs them a substantial amount of money, which is basically thrown out of the window if they would in effect go back to 2D right after Super Hero.
They have to gain the money back they have now invested. That is only possible if they'll produce more content with those new models.
It's a gruesome thought but it's sadly true.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Pafupafu » Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:19 pm

Skar wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:56 am
Mr_CINDER wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:58 amThis is DB we are talking about the series that changed everything and a multibillion dollar franchise so they will take chances because Toriyama is Ok with any changes, And if this works out this will be a new norm.
Sure but speculating that it might happen is different than claiming it's happening 100%. They're willing to take chances but it's kinda jumping the gun to assume that experimenting on a CGI film will lead to everything in the series will be done in CGI. If there aren't any anime franchises that have done this, there has to be a reason why someone would believe Toei is the first. Toei owns OP and Digimon but they only had one time CGI films years ago.
Consider my speculation at 100% full, then. They aren't experimenting with CGI on this film, they did that on the past films with short CG sequences/FX - I think that was pretty obvious experimental and trending toward more - wherein this is now a full-blown new approach for an entire film.

Also, to your point on Toei - no One Piece and Digimon theatrical films did ANYWHERE close to $122 million worldwide at the box office (Broly). This isn't planned as a one-time CGI film. They have the budget and the audience. Wait and see...

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Jinto » Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:53 pm

Didn't we say the same thing about Shintani ?

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by PurestEvil » Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:43 am

I still can’t see a TV anime being produced using CGI. Future movies? Understandably so. However, the budget for a CG series would be way too high for TOEI to consider it the risk.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Skar » Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:29 am

Pafupafu wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:19 pmConsider my speculation at 100% full, then. They aren't experimenting with CGI on this film, they did that on the past films with short CG sequences/FX - I think that was pretty obvious experimental and trending toward more - wherein this is now a full-blown new approach for an entire film.

Also, to your point on Toei - no One Piece and Digimon theatrical films did ANYWHERE close to $122 million worldwide at the box office (Broly). This isn't planned as a one-time CGI film. They have the budget and the audience. Wait and see...
Well I don't understand how Broly's success would lead to your conclusion. No one predicted we would ever get a CGI DB film. Stand by Me Doraemon was the highest grossing Doraemon film at $180 million. They had a sequel in CGI but the following two movies were back to traditional animation and I'm pretty sure it's anime didn't change.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by kemuri07 » Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:19 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:43 am I still can’t see a TV anime being produced using CGI. Future movies? Understandably so. However, the budget for a CG series would be way too high for TOEI to consider it the risk.
To be fair, stuff like Arcane is making it more likely that you can have a decent tv show with CG..

But there's no way in hell Toei would be able to sustain that quality across 100+ episodes.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Pafupafu » Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:20 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:43 am I still can’t see a TV anime being produced using CGI. Future movies? Understandably so. However, the budget for a CG series would be way too high for TOEI to consider it the risk.
The theatrical film(s) are used as a budget-offset to build assets to make the series / future projects more efficient and affordable. I guess we'll wait and see! Just weighing in given my producing of CG content and how this is all clearly trending that way (in my opinion).

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:02 pm

PreCure has had CG films while continuing to do hand drawn series. We're not getting a CG series for Dragon Ball any time soon.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Mister_Popo » Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:07 pm

PreCure is by no means comparable to DB in terms of footprint.
I'd be very surprised if his new technology were to be developed for this one movie only.
It's a way to develop more content easier with lower cost, without having to loose staff to other projects.
Lower quality of course in comparison to 2D, but just enough to satisfy the consumer in order to sell more DB-related products.
If not an anime, it's far from crazy to expect more movies in this style if sales (direct ticket sales + effect on general franchise numbers) are anywhere near their targets for this movie.

If you laugh by the idea of a 3D-anime and think this is absolutely out of question, ask yourself this first: 'did you have thought they would really make a FULL CGI-movie after the success of Broly?' That idea surely would have not been taken seriously by too many people before the first full CGI-teaser for Super Hero came out. Apparently the world is filled with surprises after all.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Pafupafu » Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:13 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:02 pm PreCure has had CG films while continuing to do hand drawn series. We're not getting a CG series for Dragon Ball any time soon.
PreCure is no comparison. Dragon Ball is a multi-million dollar franchise with an insanely large footprint.

I suggest any doubters simply look back at Toei’s creation of Dragon Ball Kai. Kanzenshuu did a great piece on this years ago. Toei, at all times, wants a new, international, and younger audience for Dragon Ball. CGI animated films and series overwhelmingly outpace hand drawn ones in terms of viewership and financial success in this modern era. This is not a trend. It will be a standard for major animated franchises within the coming years, if not already. Unfortunately purists of the original material will be resistant but just know they aren’t looking to just satisfy existing DB fans. They want the new and younger ones, for as long as possible. That’s what media companies do to sustain.

Again, I’m not a huge fan of the visuals at all. But it’s logical at this point to take one of the largest animated franchises in the world and bring it into the modern era of animated storytelling for young children.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Mr_CINDER » Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:02 am

Pafupafu wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:13 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:02 pm PreCure has had CG films while continuing to do hand drawn series. We're not getting a CG series for Dragon Ball any time soon.
PreCure is no comparison. Dragon Ball is a multi-million dollar franchise with an insanely large footprint.

I suggest any doubters simply look back at Toei’s creation of Dragon Ball Kai. Kanzenshuu did a great piece on this years ago. Toei, at all times, wants a new, international, and younger audience for Dragon Ball. CGI animated films and series overwhelmingly outpace hand drawn ones in terms of viewership and financial success in this modern era. This is not a trend. It will be a standard for major animated franchises within the coming years, if not already. Unfortunately purists of the original material will be resistant but just know they aren’t looking to just satisfy existing DB fans. They want the new and younger ones, for as long as possible. That’s what media companies do to sustain.

Again, I’m not a huge fan of the visuals at all. But it’s logical at this point to take one of the largest animated franchises in the world and bring it into the modern era of animated storytelling for young children.
Correction Dragon Ball is Multi Billion Dollar media franchise and worth 27.7 billion that is equal with Batman, Precure worth 8.78 billion .

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Pafupafu » Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:29 am

Mr_CINDER wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:02 am
Pafupafu wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:13 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:02 pm PreCure has had CG films while continuing to do hand drawn series. We're not getting a CG series for Dragon Ball any time soon.
PreCure is no comparison. Dragon Ball is a multi-million dollar franchise with an insanely large footprint.

I suggest any doubters simply look back at Toei’s creation of Dragon Ball Kai. Kanzenshuu did a great piece on this years ago. Toei, at all times, wants a new, international, and younger audience for Dragon Ball. CGI animated films and series overwhelmingly outpace hand drawn ones in terms of viewership and financial success in this modern era. This is not a trend. It will be a standard for major animated franchises within the coming years, if not already. Unfortunately purists of the original material will be resistant but just know they aren’t looking to just satisfy existing DB fans. They want the new and younger ones, for as long as possible. That’s what media companies do to sustain.

Again, I’m not a huge fan of the visuals at all. But it’s logical at this point to take one of the largest animated franchises in the world and bring it into the modern era of animated storytelling for young children.
Correction Dragon Ball is Multi Billion Dollar media franchise and worth 27.7 billion that is equal with Batman, Precure worth 8.78 billion .
Interesting that Batman’s most recent animated show was controversially moved to CGI with the same asset build out tactic. It then got canned and there’s a nostalgia-driven 2D show coming to HBO Max (complete with Mr. Nostalgia JJ Abrams producing). I can see a similar path here if the CGI Dragon Ball content is dismissed by most and if longtime fans are disgruntled enough, Toei would have to do a make-good type project that plays to that crowd (aka probably everyone here, myself included)

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:21 am

They canceled that Batman series because it was a pain in the ass to animate all that CG and very limiting. Toei Animation isn't going to try similar any time soon considering the cost.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Skar » Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:18 am

Pafupafu wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:13 pmCGI animated films and series overwhelmingly outpace hand drawn ones in terms of viewership and financial success in this modern era.
Is there a source for this? CGI animated films dominate Hollywood but I don't think that's the case in Japan. In the top 50 highest grossing anime films, I believe only two are fully CGI at #7 and #29. Maybe the trend is having more of a mix between 2D and 3D animation but I'm not aware of any anime franchises that transitioned to fully CGI. It didn't happen to Detective Conan which its highest earning film grossed almost as much as Broly or Demon Slayer that had the highest grossing anime of all time and over 4x Broly. Jujutsu Kaizen 0 had the second highest opening after Mugen Train and already grossed $75 million but it still seems to be using traditional animation.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Mr_CINDER » Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:40 pm

Skar wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:18 am
Pafupafu wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:13 pmCGI animated films and series overwhelmingly outpace hand drawn ones in terms of viewership and financial success in this modern era.
Is there a source for this? CGI animated films dominate Hollywood but I don't think that's the case in Japan. In the top 50 highest grossing anime films, I believe only two are fully CGI at #7 and #29. Maybe the trend is having more of a mix between 2D and 3D animation but I'm not aware of any anime franchises that transitioned to fully CGI. It didn't happen to Detective Conan which its highest earning film grossed almost as much as Broly or Demon Slayer that had the highest grossing anime of all time and over 4x Broly. Jujutsu Kaizen 0 had the second highest opening after Mugen Train and already grossed $75 million but it still seems to be using traditional animation.
Toei taking chances with this movie because INMO 1. Toriyama is okay with any changes 2 dosent matter Demon slayer is The highest grossing anime movie of all time nothing can outdo DB's legacy ,yeah sure Demon slayer Movie is the highest grossing anime movie but still There is a long way to go in terms of franchise worth to catch DB and Outdo its legacy. Again INMO no matter how much MCU movie's earn nobody can out do Supes and Batman's legacy.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Xeogran » Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:27 pm

When can we expect some news? The Battle Hour thingy in February?

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Skar » Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:12 pm

Mr_CINDER wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:40 pmToei taking chances with this movie because INMO 1. Toriyama is okay with any changes 2 dosent matter Demon slayer is The highest grossing anime movie of all time nothing can outdo DB's legacy ,yeah sure Demon slayer Movie is the highest grossing anime movie but still There is a long way to go in terms of franchise worth to catch DB and Outdo its legacy. Again INMO no matter how much MCU movie's earn nobody can out do Supes and Batman's legacy.
Well I wasn't talking about legacy or quality. I was only pointing out other major anime franchises haven't transitioned to full CGI so I don't know why DB would after one film. Saying it could happen isn't the same as saying it's anime trend since there would be some examples already.

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