Super Episode 111 (15 October 2017)

[Miracles]

Tactics beat other tactics but never beat power.

As I have stated before. This is Dragonball, that will not happen.

As I have stated before, THEN WHY DID THEY HYPE UP TACTICS SO MUCH?! If you can't answer this, you have no argument.

And I answered that already. They only hyped it up to be used in the tournament, not for victory dependency. You assumed they did, which is false.

[omaro34]

Classic Dragonball concept where a former main strong opponent from a previous arc gets trumped by the current one.

They've been doing that forever. Was hoping Hit would fight Vegeta but it is what it is.

[MajinMan]

Quality whiplash aside, this was a pretty solid episode. The fight wasn't as exciting as I thought it would be, but seeing Jiren just effortlessly counter Hit was pretty cool. My favorite part of this episode was the character development Hit got. He grew as a person and tried to motivate his comrades. Jiren on the other hand continues to be this unstoppable force of nature that can do anything he wants, whenever he wants. I also liked how the tournament's atmosphere changed too.

[Xeztin]

Great episode! I think Jiren is interesting, I like how this has kind of set up into a capture the flag scenario. Goku SSJBKK x20 should be able to deal with Toppo and Dyspo easily. Ultra Instinct Goku will shatter Jiren's barrier and knock him a couple hundred feet

I think it's unfair Jiren is like this in his supposedly normal state while Goku has had to go through 6 transformations plus master Kaioken with Blue. I wonder who trained Jiren.

Hit went out like a champ.

NEP with the Namekians of Universe 6 looks awesome!

[sintzu]

Hit put up a way better fight then I thought he would. It's great to finally see the Namakians but hopefully they live up to the build up they've gotten. Like last week, I wish U2 would just go away.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

I also had Jiren being the one knocking out most members of U7, but it sucks to see that he might not even bother after taking out Goku and Hit. Perhaps Toppo and/or Dyspo need to be taken out first.

I think it's unfair Jiren is like this in his supposedly normal state while Goku has had to go through 6 transformations plus master Kaioken with Blue. I wonder who trained Jiren.

Lol right? Though now with Ultra Instinct, Goku likely does not even need to go beyond his normal state anymore (though he likely will because, you know).

[WittyUsername]

That was okay. It was a step down from last week, but nothing terrible.

Jiren’s frankly a pretty boring character. There’s not really anything to him other than how insanely strong he is.

Freeza’s role in the tournament is also proving to be rather interesting. While I still can’t shake the feeling that he was brought back primarily for fanservice, it’s cool that they’re letting him actually be pragmatic. I just hope this isn’t building up to him becoming a good guy.

[dbzfan7]

I wonder why some call Jiren brute when he A) completely adpated to Hit's time-skip, B) saw through Hit's clone powers without seeing it befor and C) was smart enough to stop Hit's attack short befor trying to full break out of the time freeze.

Yeah all the hall marks of a brute with coasts on power and has no skill . Not saying anyone has to like Jiren or anything but lets not sell the guy short ether.



I agree with you nor do I think your arguing agnest it. But as I've pointed out above, Jiren is pretty skilled himself and Hit's skill allowed him to out perform the more powerful SSBKKx20 Goku. But their battle of skill had reached is limite and Jiren had both the power and moves to counter Hit's last gabbit. Its the closest thing to a real fight as we are going to get.

Fair enough. I don't see though anything he did was any different from what Goku did to counter those moves.

The difference is a mix of how they fight and what abiliyes they use them. First of let me point out that I veiw kaiokin in the sma vain as Time skip, while what they do is different they are both techniques.

when faced with Jiren Goku to the head on approch, hitting Jiren with all his raw power.....and played right into Jiren's hands. In a strait fight Goku was never going to win because while both of them ar skilled warriors the power gap came into play. At no point was Jiren at any real disadvantage and Goku was soundly beaten.

Hit by contrast never took Jiren head on. Like his fight wih Dyspo, Hit's head on attacks were just a frount to his real objective, find a weak spot. He cannot counter Jiren, and even though Cabba said Hit is trying to minise damage aganst Jiren's attacks like he did with Dyspo.......Jiren is just to powerful to that to work for any length of time. But as we saw he was able to find just a small enough edge to exploit. So thats what I mean when I say he did better then Goku even though the power gap came into play again here to. Hit was able to at keast do something, even if it was freezing him in place.

Pretty sure I agreed Hit was closer to beating Jiren than Goku was.

[Noah]

That is only true if you refer to fiction. That is never true in the real world.

So you may think no matter the size and the weight difference, an opponent that relies on brute force could always be defeated by just tactics?

[Asura]

A damn good episode to follow up the special. As expected, Hit jobbed to Jiren, but he was a badass to the very end. I'm surprised Champa was actually nice for once and staying positive about Cabba and the others. Also, where has this soundtrack been all of Super? Holy shit it's so good now.

Next episode looks like it's got a lot of stuff going on at once, hopefully most of the time will actually be spent on Cabba and Vegeta.

The green atmosphere looks ugly as hell, it's like Kai TFC but 10x worse. Why couldn't it have just remained the same? Or maybe gone red instead? Red is pretty menacing and intimidating, oh well.

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

It's great to finally see the Namakians but hopefully they live up to the build up they've gotten.

They've had zero build up though. Aside from fans pointing out that Universe 6 has Namekians through some team snapshots and their appearances in a couple of wide shots throughout the tournament, Super hasn't gone through the trouble of building them up at all. If someone was watching the show but wasn't paying super close attention, they'd be like "Oh shit! Namekians!" when they see this episode for the first time.

[Arugela]

That is only true if you refer to fiction. That is never true in the real world.

So you may think no matter the size and the weight difference, an opponent that relies on brute force can always be defeated by tactics?

Yes, that is the fundamental of every human activity from hunting to sports to war to etc. That is how all real world activities work. With any amount of knowledge anything can be superseded. Tactics and strategy are and application of knowledge. Forethought. That is how all practical subjects in life work if you learn about them. It has never nor will it ever work otherwise. This is because the nature of natural subjects like the body is they are complex. The more complex something is the more, "weakness," is has. And anything alive is very complex and has a lot of weaknesses. And no material is that strong. This is why arrows went through armor and the cycle of weapon technology happens. If you look more at any specific area there is always a lot of use of smaller faster guys winning. Being a bulking anything is dangerous for more reasons than you can name. Including being overwhelmed. they have to be used carefully. Powerful things are a risk reward sort of thing.

Dragon ball has an unrealistic unstipulated amount of energy going into things and this allows them to make it as strong as they want. If you had too apply specific energy to things you would then be able to find proper counters and limits. But being fiction they can gloss over things. When you look at it more realistically more and more weaknesses/limits will pop out until there isn't much you can do unstrategically.

[fadeddreams5]

Okay, I rewatched with subs. Gotta admit, Jiren being OP as **** is pretty cool. MF has so much power, he transcends time. How the hell does that even work? Lol

He's starting to remind me of Akuma, with a little bit of Kenshiro, with his personality, overwhelming power, and lack of desire to fight unworthy opponents, despite the stakes of the tournament.

He's still a terrible character in almost every way, but as an obstacle, he's becoming interesting to watch.

[Miracles]

Hit just got pwned by Jiren just like Goku did. Everything Hit and Goku threw at Jiren were nothing more than annoyances. No damage done to Jiren whatsoever.
Freeza stated he wanted no part of Jiren.
Goku is seething with jealousy and salt. It tastes good.

The NEP; Freeza was holding Cabbage in his hand. I am so excited if he boils it!

[JulieYBM]

Man you can tell they blew the animation budget last week this episode felt very static, particularly the three saiyans rushing during the voice over.

No, they just didn't have enough good animators or time to animate. Money really has nothing to do with the quality of the episode.

[fadeddreams5]

That is only true if you refer to fiction. That is never true in the real world.

So you may think no matter the size and the weight difference, an opponent that relies on brute force can always be defeated by tactics?

Yes, that is the fundamental of every human activity from hunting to sports to war to etc. That is how all real world activities work. With any amount of knowledge anything can be superseded. Tactics and strategy are and application of knowledge. Forethought. That is how all practical subjects in life work if you learn about them. It has never nor will it ever work otherwise.

This does not apply to combat sports. That's why weight classes exist. Floyd Mayweather would not last half a round against Mike Tyson, for example. Size matters a lot in fights.

Of course, someone who is a skilled martial artist will always beat a bum who outweighs him, but has no fight experience. That's different.

[Arugela]

So you may think no matter the size and the weight difference, an opponent that relies on brute force can always be defeated by tactics?

Yes, that is the fundamental of every human activity from hunting to sports to war to etc. That is how all real world activities work. With any amount of knowledge anything can be superseded. Tactics and strategy are and application of knowledge. Forethought. That is how all practical subjects in life work if you learn about them. It has never nor will it ever work otherwise.

This does not apply to combat sports. That's why weight classes exist. Floyd Mayweather would not last half a round against Mike Tyson, for example. Size matters a lot in fights.

Of course, someone who is a skilled martial artist will always beat a bum who outweighs him, but has no fight experience. That's different.

That is not a proper comparison because fights are already stuck to 1v1. If you remove that limit that changes quickly. And size does not in any way gaurantee victory. Most fighters in those situations are trained for fighting in a way that would not necessarily give the knowledge of how to deal with a bigger 1v1 target. But if they did they could easily subdue him. There are entire martial arts(Many of them. And probably more of them traditionally.) dedicated to this and they are using endless weakness in the human body. Particularly grappling and such. If you go beyond 1v1 or just boxing you get into more realistic situation. That is why they limit fights to 1v1. Even 1v2 with a bigger guy vs 2 weaker could wipe the floor with the bigger guy with almost no thought. And in hunting we have guns and it's easy. Technology has surpassed most difficulty. Think mammoths and groups of hunters.

And fighters in this show are supposed to be extremely knowledgeable and experienced. They all act like amateurs. Writers don't usually know much. That is why they become writers! Real martial arts and anything like it(real tactics and strategy in all areas) are primarily focused on group work not individual work. The only use for individual things is to work in the group. If it's focused on individual things(Literally a simplified version) it's for show not for use. Boxing, BTW, is a simplified show sport. It comes from real things and knowledge but it does not work in practice to the level it should or could for practical reasons.

As an example. Most modern martial arts are not real martial arts. They are simplified and focus on the individual in a grossly simplified way. The real older ones were used for real wars and went more like any real/modern military training(They literally were the military training of their time). It was all about the specific technology and weapons, including potentially hand to hand fighting, for a real war application. Just like gun or tank or any other military training would be today. It was for actual application and that is a different ball park. Same for boxing. It is a remnant of older practical applications.

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

He's starting to remind me of Akuma, with a little bit of Kenshiro, with his personality, overwhelming power, and lack of desire to fight unworthy opponents, despite the stakes of the tournament.

Oh damn. Now that you mention it, he reminds me of Akuma as well.

[TheOne]

Classic Dragonball concept where a former main strong opponent from a previous arc gets trumped by the current one.

They've been doing that forever. Was hoping Hit would fight Vegeta but it is what it is.

The former strong opponent actually put up a better fight than the main character.

Hit went out like a G. While I wish he would've stayed to the end, this was a better exit than anyone else so far.

[Kchlu]

Today's episode was okay, I guess? I was still disappointed though...

The good:
-I really like Hit's character in this episode. I mean, I started liking the guy ever since his two parter episode and he's really grown on me moving forth. This was one of his better moments, it showed that despite being an assassin that usually does things solo, he's willing to accept help from others to ensure the survival of his universe
-Champa being proud of Hit. I was expecting him to just spazz out like usual and whined...but that didn't happen, so good on you Champa!
-Freeza continually being entertaining, not much to say on that.
-Jiren meditating in mid-air while the rocks were floating around him. The moment I saw it, I just scream "Legendary pokemon found! I've gotta catch it!"

The bad:
-The U6 saiyans not even attempting to fire energy blasts at Jiren when the guy was paralyzed. Even if he does have his wall of energy thing, I would still like to have see it
-Hit being knocked out the arena was just plain boring considering this was his last hurrah. It certainly wasn't as bad as Tien's but I was hoping for more than that!
-Jiren continues to be...a character that is left lacking in a lot of area. He's a good obstacle to overcome, sure and it looks like his backstory and desires might be explored at a later episode but man oh man, do I wish it was explained earlier so I can get much more invested in the fight. All I got from him in this fight was that he was arrogant and that's about it...
-Piccolo still being stuck to Gohan like glue. He really hasn't done anything on his own in this arc without Gohan by his side has he? I just wish Piccolo was paired with another character for a breath of fresh air.

Next week's episode looks interesting, hoping for the best!