Super Episode 112 (22 October 2017)

[Li'l Lemmy]

I don't have any overwhelming issue with Cabba as a character, but damn did I loathe him in this episode. All of Vegeta's interactions with him could have been with kid Trunks instead, if anyone had bothered to bring him; instead I have to watch Vegeta play tsundere with his new son and grumble about what could have been.

It wouldn't have had the same effect if it was with Trunks. Vegeta reveals that he wants the Saiyan race of Universe 6 to survive through their possible erasure by wishing them back with the Super Dragon Balls. He's already lost his own Saiyan race, he doesn't want to lose another one, even if they are from another universe. I really like that.

When interacting with Cabba, Vegeta has this Saiyan leader persona that he never had the chance of using to anyone else because he lost his own people, but the fact that a whole other Saiyan race exists in another universe that Vegeta can help out is obviously interesting to him. I really want to see what happens when he goes to Planet Sadala (if that ever happens).

I guess I get that.

Obviously my bias is showing. I'm kind of in the camp that I wish Universe 6 didn't exist. Having a saiyan race that survived always reeked of fanfic to me, and I feel that this ultra-prodigy trio and Caulifla's constant bullshit powerups take away the one thing Goten and Trunks really had going for them as fighters- the deep potential of their mxed blood. Nope, turns out full-blooded saiyans are better after all.

At this point I'm hoping that the kids get to tag along to Sadal, since a trip was clearly referenced and is likely to happen at some point. I think having impure saiyans with earthling perspectives would make for nice contrast.

[HeroR]

When was it used in the manga? Unless I'm mistaken, the last time Goku used SSJ3 in the manga was when he fought Trunks, which I don't think counts as recently. Anyway, when I said it's another form that Caulifla is going to pull out of her ass, I was talking about how she learnt SSJ1 and SSJ2 in the space of a few minutes, and is now supposedly going to learn SSJ3 a day or so later. It's absurd. Goku had to train in the afterlife for seven years to get SSJ3. Goten and Trunks, who are prodigies themselves, needed up to two weeks of concentrated training in a magical room, as a fused being no less, to learn SSJ3. Caulifla's situation just can't compare. It's turning the Super Saiyan transformations into an even bigger joke than they already are.

Cabba learning SSJ1 from Vegeta makes a lot more sense, since he was clearly strong enough to achieve the form, he just needed the proper motivation. Plus, it's just SSJ1. Even Goten and Trunks as kids could turn SSJ1 with ease, but they never went SSJ2, which is a form Gohan, Goku, Vegeta and Future Trunks had to go through intense training (and intense mental trauma in the case of Gohan and Trunks) to achieve.

He used Super Saiyan 3 in this month's manga chapter against Toppo. I meant 76 in the anime when he was in the Forest of Fear with Krillin. And why would Saiyans from another universe follow the same rules as the Saiyans in U7?

Cali is also strong enough to learn Super Saiyan since she's stronger than Cabba, especially during the Champa Saga. Also we don't know what Goku, Vegeta, and Future Trunks did to get Super Saiyan 2 since they all got the form off-scene. Not sure where you got Trunks going through intense mental trauma to get Super Saiyan 2 unless you're using the Super manga. In the anime, off-scene.

[TheGodfather93]

When was it used in the manga? Unless I'm mistaken, the last time Goku used SSJ3 in the manga was when he fought Trunks, which I don't think counts as recently. Anyway, when I said it's another form that Caulifla is going to pull out of her ass, I was talking about how she learnt SSJ1 and SSJ2 in the space of a few minutes, and is now supposedly going to learn SSJ3 a day or so later. It's absurd. Goku had to train in the afterlife for seven years to get SSJ3. Goten and Trunks, who are prodigies themselves, needed up to two weeks of concentrated training in a magical room, as a fused being no less, to learn SSJ3. Caulifla's situation just can't compare. It's turning the Super Saiyan transformations into an even bigger joke than they already are.

Cabba learning SSJ1 from Vegeta makes a lot more sense, since he was clearly strong enough to achieve the form, he just needed the proper motivation. Plus, it's just SSJ1. Even Goten and Trunks as kids could turn SSJ1 with ease, but they never went SSJ2, which is a form Gohan, Goku, Vegeta and Future Trunks had to go through intense training (and intense mental trauma in the case of Gohan and Trunks) to achieve.

He used Super Saiyan 3 in this month's manga chapter against Toppo. I meant 76 in the anime when he was in the Forest of Fear with Krillin. And why would Saiyans from another universe follow the same rules as the Saiyans in U7?

Cali is also strong enough to learn Super Saiyan since she's stronger than Cabba, especially during the Champa Saga. Also we don't know what Goku, Vegeta, and Future Trunks did to get Super Saiyan 2 since they all got the form off-scene. Not sure where you got Trunks going through intense mental trauma to get Super Saiyan 2 unless you're using the Super manga. In the anime, off-scene.

I see. I haven't read this month's chapter. Didn't even know it was out.

Anyway, why wouldn't U6 Saiyans have to follow the same rules as U7 Saiyans when it comes to achieving new transformations? If Cabba's transformation against Vegeta means anything, then at the very least it seems that they too need an emotional trigger to achieve Super Saiyan for the first time. But as for SSJ2? Saying that they might not have to follow the same rules because they're from another universe just seems like trying to find an excuse for poor writing.

Yes, I am referring to the Super manga, because it's the only reference we have to Trunks turning SSJ2 for the first time. But even if the circumstances were different in the anime's continuity, the fact remains that he was SSJ1 for a long time, cycled through two different grades of SSJ1, and was there when Gohan transformed into SSJ2 for the first time. Him later learning SSJ2, given what he's seen and knows, makes a lot more sense than Caulifla busting out the form moments after turning SSJ1 for the first time. The same goes for Goku and Vegeta.

[HeroR]

I see. I haven't read this month's chapter. Didn't even know it was out.

Anyway, why wouldn't U6 Saiyans have to follow the same rules as U7 Saiyans when it comes to achieving new transformations? If Cabba's transformation against Vegeta means anything, then at the very least it seems that they too need an emotional trigger to achieve Super Saiyan for the first time. But as for SSJ2? Saying that they might not have to follow the same rules because they're from another universe just seems like trying to find an excuse for poor writing.

Yes, I am referring to the Super manga, because it's the only reference we have to Trunks turning SSJ2 for the first time. But even if the circumstances were different in the anime's continuity, the fact remains that he was SSJ1 for a long time, cycled through two different grades of SSJ1, and was there when Gohan transformed into SSJ2 for the first time. Him later learning SSJ2, given what he's seen and knows, makes a lot more sense than Caulifla busting out the form moments after turning SSJ1 for the first time.

It was stated back in the Champa Saga that the U6 Saiyans evolved differently from the U7 Saiyans. For one, they don't have tails and the guides actually said that Saiyans are stronger without tails. In fact, the reason why Goten and Trunks are so powerful is because they're tailless hybrids. All this shows that U6's Saiyans can and are far stronger than their U7 counterparts outside of Goku and Vegeta's families.

Also the Super Saiyan needing an emotional trigger was proven not to be completely true by Goten and Trunks, who didn't used anger to transform. Goten in the manga didn't even remember when he went Super Saiyan, so no emotional distress happened. At least not one he can recall. As for Super Saiyan 2, only Gohan got it from an emotional trigger, while Goku and Vegeta just achieved it off-scene with no explanation.

This isn't "trying to find an excuse for poor writing", when the show told us that the U6 Saiyans evolved differently and we have guidebooks that tells us that Saiyans born without tails are naturally stronger than those born without. That was how it explained away Trunks and Goten getting Super Saiyan with such eased.

True, but we have no clue how he got it in the anime. As far as we know, he got it the same way as Goku and Vegeta, which we have no clue about since the anime and manga never bother to tell us how they got Super Saiyan 2. We just assumed they trained hard for it.

[Michsi]

It was a nice episode, from start to finish.

Loved the few seconds with the U6 namekians.
We finally have confirmation that they are planning to resurrect everyone.
Vegeta's scene was handled well, and that all he did was help Cabba help find his resolve instead of coaching him through the fight was good.
I even liked Monna, and the way she fights, though I was a little surprised to find see how cocky she is. From the images alone I thought she'd be the super cheery and sweet, but she ended being aggressive and bumptious.
The second fiddle talk. Ouch!

And biggest surprise of all: I didn't mind Kale and Caulifla this episode. There little interaction with Caulifla's borderline overweening confidence in herself played against Kale's more grounded assertion was fairly entertaining. Voice-acting does a lot for me in terms of liking a character and I've got to admit that I have a soft spot for the gruff, tomboyish way Cauli talks.

But let's see how my appreciation holds up for them next episode. The only thing I disliked a little was Cabba going SSJ2, so Caulifla and Kale go SSJ3 with a snap of their fingers might annoy me more.

[TheGodfather93]

I see. I haven't read this month's chapter. Didn't even know it was out.

Anyway, why wouldn't U6 Saiyans have to follow the same rules as U7 Saiyans when it comes to achieving new transformations? If Cabba's transformation against Vegeta means anything, then at the very least it seems that they too need an emotional trigger to achieve Super Saiyan for the first time. But as for SSJ2? Saying that they might not have to follow the same rules because they're from another universe just seems like trying to find an excuse for poor writing.

Yes, I am referring to the Super manga, because it's the only reference we have to Trunks turning SSJ2 for the first time. But even if the circumstances were different in the anime's continuity, the fact remains that he was SSJ1 for a long time, cycled through two different grades of SSJ1, and was there when Gohan transformed into SSJ2 for the first time. Him later learning SSJ2, given what he's seen and knows, makes a lot more sense than Caulifla busting out the form moments after turning SSJ1 for the first time.

It was stated back in the Champa Saga that the U6 Saiyans evolved differently from the U7 Saiyans. For one, they don't have tails and the guides actually said that Saiyans are stronger without tails. In fact, the reason why Goten and Trunks are so powerful is because they're tailless hybrids. All this shows that U6's Saiyans can and are far stronger than their U7 counterparts outside of Goku and Vegeta's families.

Also the Super Saiyan needing an emotional trigger was proven not to be completely true by Goten and Trunks, who didn't used anger to transform. Goten in the manga didn't even remember when he went Super Saiyan, so no emotional distress happened. At least not one he can recall. As for Super Saiyan 2, only Gohan got it from an emotional trigger, while Goku and Vegeta just achieved it off-scene with no explanation.

This isn't "trying to find an excuse for poor writing", when the show told us that the U6 Saiyans evolved differently and we have guidebooks that tells us that Saiyans born without tails are naturally stronger than those born without. That was how it explained away Trunks and Goten getting Super Saiyan with such eased.

True, but we have no clue how he got it in the anime. As far as we know, he got it the same way as Goku and Vegeta, which we have no clue about since the anime and manga never bother to tell us how they got Super Saiyan 2. We just assumed they trained hard for it.

I guess I can understand that... even though I find the reasoning given flimsy and convenient as all hell. I don't really have a problem with Caulifla as a character. In fact, I actually find her quite amusing. But it irks me that she's to achieve new Super Saiyan forms so quickly when it took the U7 Saiyans (Goten and Trunks excluded) years of harsh training among other stimuli to become as strong as they did. I can't help it.

[avasatu]

4.5/5. Excellent fights, animation, and story boarding, though a bit of a tease with Toppo. Some...interesting power scaling as well.

If the average quality was at least as good as this episode for the rest of the show I'd be one happy camper.

[Freeza9000]

Cabba can barely do anything as a Super Saiyan, despite one-shotting 2 different fighters in his base form earlier; afterwards, Vegeta knocks Monna away in his base form, then Cabba overpowers her as a Super Saiyan 2. I guess Vegeta's base is close to Cabba's SSJ2 in power now? So he's, like, almost 100 times stronger than he was in the Universe 6 arc? I don't even know anymore.

With the training and strength gains he accomplished in the ROSAT in the Black arc before their 3rd bout against the Zamasu duo and again during preparation for the Tournament of Power, it sure doesn't come across as a big surprise to me nor is it a huge problem.

[Username2016]

Monna is T H I C C

Like the Master vs. Stundent dynamic with Cabba and Vegeta. Made some sense Cabba achieved SSJ2 instead of it being a straight asspull like Caulifla

Caulifla is still the worst character. Yes, more worse than Ribrianne. Fucking Ribrianne

Goku is using SSJ3 in the NEP. Ya know, The same Goku who is trying to recover stamina and regain his energy is using his most stamina draining form? Toei has the greatest writers in history.

Please no SSJ3 Caulifla. Please no SSJ3 Caulifla. Please no SSJ3 Caulifla. Please no SSJ3 Caulifla. Please no SSJ3 Caulifla. Please no SSJ3 Caulifla. Please no SSJ3 Caulifla. Please no SSJ3 Caulifla. Please no SSJ3 Caulifla. Please no SSJ3 Caulifla .Please no SSJ3 Caulifla. Please no SSJ3 Caulifla. Please no SSJ3 Caulifla. Please no SSJ3 Caulifla. Please no SSJ3 Caulifla. Please no SSJ3 Caulifla.

[KingKaash]

Up and down episode to me

Positives:

-Vegeta not being portrayed badly. Vegeta not giving energy to Goku's Spirit Bomb was a real low point for him but seeing him reveal his wish to resurrect everyone if he wins the ToP put him back on the good guy column
-Frieza continues to impress every time he's shown. Beating up on the exhausted Cabba was classic Frieza. Though I was a bit surprised he had to go Golden Frieza to not get harmed by SSJ2 Cabba's attack, he did mention right after that it was not a good idea to waste his energy to go Golden to eliminate Cabba, which makes me think he didn't need to

Mixed:

-Not focusing on Piccolo and Vegeta's fight with the U6 Namekians. I hope an episode gets devoted to that. I don't like these little scenes of potentially good fights
-Not focusing on Vegeta vs Toppo. Another incredible fight that is happening off-screen that needs to get it's own episode. These big-time fights not being shown results in choppiness in the flow of the episode because we want to see this happen but then we get to the main focus which is only Cabba vs Monna. Have the main guys fight fodder off-screen.
-Cabba's SSJ2 transformation felt a bit forced. I would've liked if Monna kept going up and down and crushing Cabba deeper into the ground while saying those things about Vegeta, Caulifla and Kale. Then Cabba going SSJ2 from down there and fending off Monna would've been so much better. It seems Cabba becoming SSJ2 is a sign that Caulifla needs to get a new form in the near future to keep ahead of Cabba
-Writers losing a really good opportunity to give Goku a break and focus on other characters. I like seeing Goku. And I understand the strategy of the GoDs is to eliminate a very weakened Goku because this is their best chance. Still I think the writers could've not given Goku fights for a about two episodes to "rest his body." Then when the U3 robots attacked, Android 17 & 18 could come to protect him and further their stories. They did do that when the U6 Namekians attacked Goku by having Gohan and Piccolo jump in. But unfortunately they could not leave completely Goku alone.
-Caulifla attacking Goku at this point of the ToP. Again Goku is extremely exhausted. I'd rather see Goku vs Caulifla when Goku is bit more rested and recovered. But I guess fighting an exhausted Goku is a way for Caulifla to stand a chance

Did Goku really say he's going SSJ3 against Caulifla in the next episode??? This dude Goku is trying to recover and he's about to use the form that expends the most energy??? WTF? I didn't see it visually in the preview so I hope that doesn't happen because that makes no sense.

[Username2016]

Positives:

-Vegeta not being portrayed badly. Vegeta not giving energy to Goku's Spirit Bomb was a real low point for him but seeing him reveal his wish to resurrect everyone if he wins the ToP put him back on the good guy column

Vegeta ddn't give Goku energy because he knocked out Ribiranne real quick. I guess he sensed her or something

[MKCSTEALTH]

A decent episode. Not greatest but I enjoyed it. Loved how excited Piccolo was to fight the Namekians from U6, loved how Frieza toyed with Cabba toward the end. All around good stuff.

The big take away from this episode, for me at least, is that by the exchange from Vegeta and Cabba regarding Planet Sadala, the erased universes will be brought back at some point. There was no real closure to their relationship, plus the fact that Vegeta is still interested in seeing the U6 Saiyans really leads me to think that U6 will be either sticking around or brought back at some point

[Freeza9000]

Positives:

-Vegeta not being portrayed badly. Vegeta not giving energy to Goku's Spirit Bomb was a real low point for him but seeing him reveal his wish to resurrect everyone if he wins the ToP put him back on the good guy column

Vegeta ddn't give Goku energy because he knocked out Ribiranne real quick. I guess he sensed her or something

As if he couldn't have done an immediate elimination of Ribrianne and then gave Goku his energy to fuel the Genki Dama. What's even more hilarious is that Vegeta later on screams at Goku to push back the Genki Dama despite initially refusing to do so.

[precita]

Caulifla is still the worst character. Yes, more worse than Ribrianne. Fucking Ribrianne.

People hate Caulifa because she has an actual character? I understand not wanting her to get any more power ups, but as a character what on earth did people want out of a female Saiyan?

[DainIronfoot]

Enjoyed the episode. Toshio always delivers pretty good episodes. I loved my Universe 3 fighters actually trying to be Savvy and attack a weakened Goku. I found it interesting that the three who did were the exact three robots people think will merge.


Also, shoutout to Mojito, we haven't seen him since U9 erasure!

[SansrivaaL]

Pretty weak episode but the dialogues were amazing, besides Cabba's cringe nakama bs.
Oh and yipee I liked Kale's comebacks to Cauli! especially that "well arent you the positive one..." the way she said it, her tone, holy hell that was funny af. Cauli still remains as my personal 2nd worst character introduced in this arc or hell probably the whole franchise, I've never been this pissed with a character before, both her and Ribrianne, Kale's safe as long as she doesnt do those Broly BS anymore, I would prefer her staying in that slim SSJ form than that Broly shit.
Also Freeza, YOU THE MVP! 17 was my MVP before but you owning! now please please PLEASE for the love of all that is good take out Cauli and Ribbriane as well, and if Kale pops out some Broly reference again throw her the hell out, but torture them first.

Quite disappointed with Cabba's SSJ2, I thought for sure his bang would stand up... no visual change boooo!
Vegeta has officially became deluded, no wonder he was calm, he probably couldnt grasp how strong Jiren and Goku was at that time, and now he got burned, Toppo just made one of the best comebacks in DB history
Vegeta: I have no interest in the 2nd fiddle.
Toppo: Aint you the 2nd fiddle too?
Oh hell yes the burn! he should thank Toppo, dude saved his ass from a scary ass beating.
I want Freeza to win now to open up the new arc as soon as possible! Freeza being the top dog and Goku for one last bout, HELL YES SIGN ME UP!

PS: In the preview, did Goku just say he'll show them SSJ3? WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU DO THAT!? DOESNT SSJ3 DRAIN A HELL OF A STAMINA!? I THOUGHT THAT WAS THE MAIN REASON WHY YOU SKIPPED IT AGAINST JIREN AND WENT STRAIGHT TO SSJG! WHAT.THE.FUCK.?

[Tombstone1988]

With the training and strength gains he accomplished in the ROSAT in the Black arc before their 3rd bout against the Zamasu duo and again during preparation for the Tournament of Power, it sure doesn't come across as a big surprise to me nor is it a huge problem.

That's some pretty massive gains. That's a bit unrealistic, even for this series. And it's not a huge problem, hence why I said the episode was above average, leaning good. It was simply a personal critique.

[HeroR]

I guess I can understand that... even though I find the reasoning given flimsy and convenient as all hell. I don't really have a problem with Caulifla as a character. In fact, I actually find her quite amusing. But it irks me that she's to achieve new Super Saiyan forms so quickly when it took the U7 Saiyans (Goten and Trunks excluded) years of harsh training among other stimuli to become as strong as they did. I can't help it.

That's most of Dragon Ball. I mean, they had kids get the supposed 'legendary Super Saiyan' form off-scene and on one knew about it.

Also, it should be noted that we never saw Future Trunks get Super Saiyan in the manga. He already had the form when Gohan was killed, so we don't knew how hard he had to train for it.

[namekiansaiyan]

Toppo saying, "Aren't you also second fiddle?" to Vegeta has got to be one of the top 10 funniest lines in Super.

Holy shit, I burst out laughing. Why aren't more people praising that line? Toppo is a genius! I ROFL AND LMAO!

In all seriousness though, that was "fall out of your chair laughing" material.

It definitely is one of the best lines.

[Cipher]

Freeza versus Cabba climaxed a little underwhelmingly, but between the script and especially the use of music at the end of the episode, this week marks the first time Super has had four good episodes in a row.

Can it pull off the mythical five?