Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by precita » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:00 am

Asura wrote: This episode was really mediocre. The Namekians felt like complete fodder, and the whole thing about them absorbing every Namekian resulted in absolutely nothing.
They got more than an episode of screentime since you have to count all the scenes they had in the previous episodes with this one, and if you edit the clips together without breaks or U2 scenes, you get a full fight. I still don't know what you mean "amounted to nothing." Their fusing with every Namek on their planet gave a reason for their power and desperation, it's a much better backstory than simply saying, "these are strong Nameks" without any real reason.
, and they prove once again that they have no idea what the hell they're doing with Champa's character. Beerus' reaction was "say something". Is he talking to himself, or was he pissed off that Champa didn't even say anything?
Champa's goodbye was perfect. It fits his character well, as well as Beerus showing some slight concern. I think you have no grasp of their characters, these aren't "lovey dovey brothers" like good brothers would be in real life.
All in all I was severely disappointed and I really have no idea what the point was of saving the Namekians for last. I called it last week too, that TOEI would fuck it up and reduce them to complete fodder and whaddya know, they did it. I see a lot of people praising the writing in this episode and how it gave them the feels but I guess I must be some sort of emotionless zombie because I felt nothing for U2 or U6, and I was expecting to get pretty emotional at U6 being erased. Otherwise the writing was good, but nothing stand-out extraordinary. I guess by Super's standards it must be incredible writing though.s.
U2 got a great farewell because it suited their theme and universe. The U2 fighters becoming crossdressers was a hilarious way to go, and Goku simply shot out a burst of power as SSBlue, he didn't stay like that.

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Asura » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:10 am

precita wrote:
Asura wrote: This episode was really mediocre. The Namekians felt like complete fodder, and the whole thing about them absorbing every Namekian resulted in absolutely nothing.
They got more than an episode of screentime since you have to count all the scenes they had in the previous episodes with this one, and if you edit the clips together without breaks or U2 scenes, you get a full fight. I still don't know what you mean "amounted to nothing." Their fusing with every Namek on their planet gave a reason for their power and desperation, it's a much better backstory than simply saying, "these are strong Nameks" without any real reason.
, and they prove once again that they have no idea what the hell they're doing with Champa's character. Beerus' reaction was "say something". Is he talking to himself, or was he pissed off that Champa didn't even say anything?
Champa's goodbye was perfect. It fits his character well, as well as Beerus showing some slight concern. I think you have no grasp of their characters, these aren't "lovey dovey brothers" like good brothers would be in real life.
All in all I was severely disappointed and I really have no idea what the point was of saving the Namekians for last. I called it last week too, that TOEI would fuck it up and reduce them to complete fodder and whaddya know, they did it. I see a lot of people praising the writing in this episode and how it gave them the feels but I guess I must be some sort of emotionless zombie because I felt nothing for U2 or U6, and I was expecting to get pretty emotional at U6 being erased. Otherwise the writing was good, but nothing stand-out extraordinary. I guess by Super's standards it must be incredible writing though.s.
U2 got a great farewell because it suited their theme and universe. The U2 fighters becoming crossdressers was a hilarious way to go, and Goku simply shot out a burst of power as SSBlue, he didn't stay like that.
Oh yeah all the scenes in the previous episodes of them doing literally nothing except having a 20 second fight scene, that sure did amount to something. And what power and desperation? They got destroyed in record time by Gohan with Piccolo getting the easy finishing blow. It is a better backstory, and it's actually a great backstory. But like I said, it literally amounted to nothing. They stated that they fused with every Namekian and got stronger, and then proceeded to get their asses whooped 5 minutes later.

I 100% have a grasp of Beerus and Champa's characters, trust me. Champa's writing has been all over the place this arc, but mostly it just completely contradicts how he was at the end of the U6 arc. In the U6 arc, Beerus and Champa had a rivalry but at the end of the day they still cared for each other somewhat, and Champa flipping him off as he's being erased was just such shit. Champa was literally trying to kill his brother the entire arc, and then flips him off at the end. What the fuck? They had a sibling rivalry in the U6 arc, they didn't want to literally kill each other.

I didn't find the U2 fighters becoming crossdressers hilarious at all. In fact, it just made me groan because it was literally the same fucking thing as Ribrianne and co. except this time they're men. Christ almighty thank god U2 is gone. Truly cancer in every scene they were in, except for Brianne this episode, she was actually tolerable for the first time since she was introduced. Good, I might dare say.

Again, how can he even shoot out a burst of power as Blue? He supposedly has no stamina at all, and it was a lot more than just a burst of power, he blew through a fucking black hole with a Kamehameha. Apparently an exhausted, beaten up Goku is still stronger than Android 17 who we saw before being even with Blue. Makes sense.

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Jigurashi » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:17 am

Asura wrote:
Jigurashi wrote:
BlueVegerot wrote:
They definitely shoehorned him into this episode. he couldn't even walk properly in episode 117 and now he's going blue with possibly kaioken and beating 3 u2 warriors. we had the androids who have 0 stamina issues who could have finished the episode, even freeza would have been way better but nope have to have goku be the main focus again
What main focus? You mean with the U2 fodder characters? Those androids showed up after Goku was already fighting these three fairly well. I don't see how he was anymore "shoehorned" than any other character this episode. This episode wasn't even focusing on one set of individuals as I said. It was an ensemble episode. Even then, I hardly see how Goku fighting these U2 dudes is shoehorned when they approached him first and were already fighting him. With that said, I could do without Goku eliminating them.
Why was Goku even in this episode at all? I mean, he could have sat out once the androids arrived. He was given more screentime and importance than the androids during the fight with U2. This is the second time he's lost all of his stamina, so why is he still the main star in eliminating U2, and why is he still going Blue? They keep telling us he's out of stamina, but showing means more than telling, and they keep showing us the exact opposite.
They're showing us that he's using SSB in bursts and even needed to be carried by 17 and 18. How does that not show us he has low stamina? He was given more screen time than them this episode yeah. He was in this episode for the same reason 17 and 18 were in this episode. Like you're making a bigger deal out of him going Blue than it really was. 2 minutes passed in this episode, and he went Blue twice briefly, with the first time being extremely brief, and the second time requiring him to be carried. I really don't see why this is worth complaining about when these scenes were pretty brief, and with only 2 minutes passing, he wasn't even in Blue for even 10 seconds. I agree that they could have easily just given the last U2 guys to 17 and 18. Goku was in this episode for the same reason 17 and 18 were in it. This wasn't an episode focusing on just one individual, it focused on several. Like I said, I would have preferred 17 and 18 to eliminate these two, as I personally think Goku should be put on hold for awhile. Unfortunately, that isn't going to happen.

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by mAcChaos » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:19 am

Asura wrote:I 100% have a grasp of Beerus and Champa's characters, trust me. Champa's writing has been all over the place this arc, but mostly it just completely contradicts how he was at the end of the U6 arc. In the U6 arc, Beerus and Champa had a rivalry but at the end of the day they still cared for each other somewhat, and Champa flipping him off as he's being erased was just such shit. Champa was literally trying to kill his brother the entire arc, and then flips him off at the end. What the fuck? They had a sibling rivalry in the U6 arc, they didn't want to literally kill each other.
I thought it was obvious enough. They care for each other but they're not the types to just come out and say it. So Champa gave him one last taste of their rivalry for old time's sake. You can even see Champa go silent for a few moments before it, like he's struggling to decide whether he should say something or just play it off cooly.

I have my problems with Super but it's annoying reading so many posts of people complaining when it is really them just not understanding what's going on. Like Goku going Blue VS Krillin. It wasn't about Goku needing power -- it was about Goku wanting to show Krillin the kind of scary opponents he'd be up against, that kind of pressure, so he'd be ready.
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Turambar » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:29 am

Bravo, Toei. They are really on a good run lately. This episode could have easily been one of the lowlights of this arc, but it is probably in my top five episodes instead. I could feel the emotions of the characters, and it had me immersed in everything that was going on, especially in the second half.

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by dbzfan7 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:32 am

OLKv3 wrote:Image
Once again I want to know who this guy is and where he puts this stuff up. It's exactly what I was thinking while watching. :lol:
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Michsi » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:35 am

Loved the episode! My only complaint is that the U6 Namekians had to share it with U2 (the trio was way more important this episode than expected) but all in all I really enjoyed it. Special mention goes to the music!

That moment with Piccolo waking up to Nail and Kami was so unexpected but so, such a cool character moment! And him being the one whose fighting spirit faltered and then get it back thanks to Gohan was great! It's not the sacrifice

The send-off was emotional, but damn have I had my fill of the word "love".

Champa final moment with Beerus was handled perfectly as well.

And I finally got my wish! I've seen U6 interaction, more specifically, how Cauilifla cheered Saonel and Pirina on and then chased them despite being wounded. I love such moments!

Will rewatch the episode later, maybe got a few more things to add.

Buuuut now I'm back to being anxious because of the NEP :(

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Asura » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:37 am

mAcChaos wrote:
Asura wrote:I 100% have a grasp of Beerus and Champa's characters, trust me. Champa's writing has been all over the place this arc, but mostly it just completely contradicts how he was at the end of the U6 arc. In the U6 arc, Beerus and Champa had a rivalry but at the end of the day they still cared for each other somewhat, and Champa flipping him off as he's being erased was just such shit. Champa was literally trying to kill his brother the entire arc, and then flips him off at the end. What the fuck? They had a sibling rivalry in the U6 arc, they didn't want to literally kill each other.
I thought it was obvious enough. They care for each other but they're not the types to just come out and say it.
Oh yes, they care for each other so much that Champa was literally singling out U7 in an attempt to get his brother killed as fast as possible. :roll:
Jigurashi wrote:
Asura wrote:
Jigurashi wrote: What main focus? You mean with the U2 fodder characters? Those androids showed up after Goku was already fighting these three fairly well. I don't see how he was anymore "shoehorned" than any other character this episode. This episode wasn't even focusing on one set of individuals as I said. It was an ensemble episode. Even then, I hardly see how Goku fighting these U2 dudes is shoehorned when they approached him first and were already fighting him. With that said, I could do without Goku eliminating them.
Why was Goku even in this episode at all? I mean, he could have sat out once the androids arrived. He was given more screentime and importance than the androids during the fight with U2. This is the second time he's lost all of his stamina, so why is he still the main star in eliminating U2, and why is he still going Blue? They keep telling us he's out of stamina, but showing means more than telling, and they keep showing us the exact opposite.
They're showing us that he's using SSB in bursts and even needed to be carried by 17 and 18. How does that not show us he has low stamina?
You're asking how Goku going SSB shows us he has low stamina? Seriously? Short bursts of power that's enough to decimate a black hole. Goku shouldn't be able to do any kind of burst of power with SSB if he's completely exhausted. SSJ at most since he's mastered the form and it doesn't take up stamina.

Remember the fight with Kid Buu? Remember how Goku was so exhausted he couldn't even transform into SSJ, even for a "burst" as you called it? Goku should be even more exhausted here then he was there since he literally passed out to activate UI.
Last edited by Asura on Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by mAcChaos » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:41 am

Asura wrote:
mAcChaos wrote:
Asura wrote:I 100% have a grasp of Beerus and Champa's characters, trust me. Champa's writing has been all over the place this arc, but mostly it just completely contradicts how he was at the end of the U6 arc. In the U6 arc, Beerus and Champa had a rivalry but at the end of the day they still cared for each other somewhat, and Champa flipping him off as he's being erased was just such shit. Champa was literally trying to kill his brother the entire arc, and then flips him off at the end. What the fuck? They had a sibling rivalry in the U6 arc, they didn't want to literally kill each other.
I thought it was obvious enough. They care for each other but they're not the types to just come out and say it.
Oh yes, they care for each other so much that Champa was literally singling out U7 in an attempt to get his brother killed as fast as possible. :roll:
Jigurashi wrote:
Asura wrote:
Why was Goku even in this episode at all? I mean, he could have sat out once the androids arrived. He was given more screentime and importance than the androids during the fight with U2. This is the second time he's lost all of his stamina, so why is he still the main star in eliminating U2, and why is he still going Blue? They keep telling us he's out of stamina, but showing means more than telling, and they keep showing us the exact opposite.
They're showing us that he's using SSB in bursts and even needed to be carried by 17 and 18. How does that not show us he has low stamina?
You're asking how Goku going SSB shows us he has low stamina? Seriously? Short bursts of power that's enough to decimate a black hole. Goku shouldn't be able to do any kind of burst of power with SSB if he's completely exhausted. SSJ at most since he's mastered the form and it doesn't take up stamina.
That's just how they interact. Did you have any brothers around your age? It tends to be "play fighting" in that way.

As for Goku, Whis explains Goku is deliberately trying to exhaust his reserves so he can get Ultra Instinct, but he has to go farther to do it each time since he's getting used to pushing himself this much.
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Asura » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:43 am

mAcChaos wrote:
Asura wrote:
mAcChaos wrote: I thought it was obvious enough. They care for each other but they're not the types to just come out and say it.
Oh yes, they care for each other so much that Champa was literally singling out U7 in an attempt to get his brother killed as fast as possible. :roll:
Jigurashi wrote: They're showing us that he's using SSB in bursts and even needed to be carried by 17 and 18. How does that not show us he has low stamina?
You're asking how Goku going SSB shows us he has low stamina? Seriously? Short bursts of power that's enough to decimate a black hole. Goku shouldn't be able to do any kind of burst of power with SSB if he's completely exhausted. SSJ at most since he's mastered the form and it doesn't take up stamina.
That's just how they interact. Did you have any brothers around your age? It tends to be "play fighting" in that way.

As for Goku, Whis explains Goku is deliberately trying to exhaust his reserves so he can get Ultra Instinct, but he has to go farther to do it each time since he's getting used to pushing himself this much.
Ah yes, my brother and I used to try and kill each other all the time as kids. Truly, such normal behavior for any siblings.

And how does Goku deliberately exhausting his reserves make any sense when he has no reserves? That's literally the entire point of him being exhausted.

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Sandubadear » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:43 am

I need more Mahou Shounen. Not fair that they only got one episode.

The Namekians fight was good, but everybody already expected that.
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by BlueVegerot » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:43 am

Do people remember how goku lack of stamina vs kid buu made him unable go ss3 or how he couldn't go blue to fight universe zamasu. Now despite repeatedly being told he is tired as hell and out of energy he can still go ssb kk but maintain it long enough to kamehameha out of a black hole.

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Michsi » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:45 am

I just read a comment on twitter and it reminded me too: what happened to that bit where Freeza's was supposedly upset that Goku interefered with his fun. Also, it would seem the title for the next episode has been changed....

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Asura » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:45 am

BlueVegerot wrote:Do people remember how goku lack of stamina vs kid buu made him unable go ss3 or how he couldn't go blue to fight universe zamasu. Now despite repeatedly being told he is tired as hell and out of energy he can still go ssb kk but maintain it long enough to kamehameha out of a black hole.
Hell, he was unable to even go SSJ, let alone SSJ3. And yes, even more recent was him being too exhausted to go Blue to fight Zamasu. Time to wake up folks, this writing is shit.

Oh, and I didn't even notice he went Kaioken at the end, wow to add insult to injury holy shit this is stupid :lol:

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Turambar » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:49 am

Asura wrote:
BlueVegerot wrote:Do people remember how goku lack of stamina vs kid buu made him unable go ss3 or how he couldn't go blue to fight universe zamasu. Now despite repeatedly being told he is tired as hell and out of energy he can still go ssb kk but maintain it long enough to kamehameha out of a black hole.
Hell, he was unable to even go SSJ, let alone SSJ3. And yes, even more recent was him being too exhausted to go Blue to fight Zamasu. Time to wake up folks, this writing is shit.

Oh, and I didn't even notice he went Kaioken at the end, wow to add insult to injury holy shit this is stupid :lol:
Whis explained it in this episode. His body is growing acclimated to the repeated exhaustion.

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Master Xar » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:51 am

Asura wrote:
mAcChaos wrote:
Asura wrote:
Oh yes, they care for each other so much that Champa was literally singling out U7 in an attempt to get his brother killed as fast as possible. :roll:



You're asking how Goku going SSB shows us he has low stamina? Seriously? Short bursts of power that's enough to decimate a black hole. Goku shouldn't be able to do any kind of burst of power with SSB if he's completely exhausted. SSJ at most since he's mastered the form and it doesn't take up stamina.
That's just how they interact. Did you have any brothers around your age? It tends to be "play fighting" in that way.

As for Goku, Whis explains Goku is deliberately trying to exhaust his reserves so he can get Ultra Instinct, but he has to go farther to do it each time since he's getting used to pushing himself this much.
Ah yes, my brother and I used to try and kill each other all the time as kids. Truly, such normal behavior for any siblings.

And how does Goku deliberately exhausting his reserves make any sense when he has no reserves? That's literally the entire point of him being exhausted.
Except they aren’t normal siblings, they’ve known each other for over millions of years and likely dealt with a lot of heavy shit in those years, they are gods, life and death doesn’t mean too much to them, or unless you wanna say they aren’t gods, in which case they aren’t above morality and are borderline sociopaths, both likely had plans to revive the other at the end of the tournament anyways.

Also regarding SSJB Goku breaking out of a Black Hole... you do realize Black Holes by this point in the series isn’t shit right? Goku can fight a guy whos power transcends time and likely space, Black Holes are like... Solar System to Galaxy level depending on size? They long surpassed that range in the BOG arc onward.

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Asura » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:53 am

Turambar wrote:
Asura wrote:
BlueVegerot wrote:Do people remember how goku lack of stamina vs kid buu made him unable go ss3 or how he couldn't go blue to fight universe zamasu. Now despite repeatedly being told he is tired as hell and out of energy he can still go ssb kk but maintain it long enough to kamehameha out of a black hole.
Hell, he was unable to even go SSJ, let alone SSJ3. And yes, even more recent was him being too exhausted to go Blue to fight Zamasu. Time to wake up folks, this writing is shit.

Oh, and I didn't even notice he went Kaioken at the end, wow to add insult to injury holy shit this is stupid :lol:
Whis explained it in this episode. His body is growing acclimated to the repeated exhaustion.
That doesn't even begin to make sense.
Master Xar wrote:
Asura wrote:
mAcChaos wrote: That's just how they interact. Did you have any brothers around your age? It tends to be "play fighting" in that way.

As for Goku, Whis explains Goku is deliberately trying to exhaust his reserves so he can get Ultra Instinct, but he has to go farther to do it each time since he's getting used to pushing himself this much.
Ah yes, my brother and I used to try and kill each other all the time as kids. Truly, such normal behavior for any siblings.

And how does Goku deliberately exhausting his reserves make any sense when he has no reserves? That's literally the entire point of him being exhausted.
Except they aren’t normal siblings, they’ve known each other for over millions of years and likely dealt with a lot of heavy shit in those years, they are gods, life and death doesn’t mean too much to them, or unless you wanna say they aren’t gods, in which case they aren’t above morality and are borderline sociopaths, both likely had plans to revive the other at the end of the tournament anyways.

Also regarding SSJB Goku breaking out of a Black Hole... you do realize Black Holes by this point in the series isn’t shit right? Goku can fight a guy whos power transcends time and likely space, Black Holes are like... Solar System to Galaxy level depending on size? They long surpassed that range in the BOG arc onward.
Life and death doesn't mean anything to each other? Clearly Beerus cared enough about Champa to give him Earth so that he could eat good food, and Champa was very thankful about it. How do you go from a deed like that to deliberately trying to kill your brother?

And it doesn't matter how insignificant a black hole is now in the series. Exhausted is exhausted. If you're exhausted that means you've burnt through all your reserves and have no energy left. So how does one who has no energy left transform into SSB Kaioken and blast through a black hole?

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by BlueVegerot » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:56 am

Turambar wrote:
Asura wrote:
BlueVegerot wrote:Do people remember how goku lack of stamina vs kid buu made him unable go ss3 or how he couldn't go blue to fight universe zamasu. Now despite repeatedly being told he is tired as hell and out of energy he can still go ssb kk but maintain it long enough to kamehameha out of a black hole.
Hell, he was unable to even go SSJ, let alone SSJ3. And yes, even more recent was him being too exhausted to go Blue to fight Zamasu. Time to wake up folks, this writing is shit.

Oh, and I didn't even notice he went Kaioken at the end, wow to add insult to injury holy shit this is stupid :lol:
Whis explained it in this episode. His body is growing acclimated to the repeated exhaustion.
so after all the years of training and fighting now all of a sudden his body is becoming stamina issue immune. At the start of this tournament, goku wouldn't go blue vs nink or trio de dangers cause he wanted to save stamina. Please don't defend bad writing

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by TameImpala » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:59 am

I’m just pissed off Vegeta vs Toppo didn’t really happen. They only showed a couple 15 second scenes.

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by mAcChaos » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:59 am

Asura wrote: Ah yes, my brother and I used to try and kill each other all the time as kids. Truly, such normal behavior for any siblings.

And how does Goku deliberately exhausting his reserves make any sense when he has no reserves? That's literally the entire point of him being exhausted.
I would say that they are basically tsundere for each other. They know each universe has to win, but I bet they'd wish each other back.

It is confusing but I think it is showing that Goku is trying to find reserves he didn't know he had -- break his limit, his self-limiting shell. He scrapes the bottom of the barrel deeper each time. Also, it's not like he's going Blue that long -- it's in short bursts. But yeah I think they could be portraying this part better.
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