Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

[ZenkaiBoosts]

It went unmentioned in the episode itself, but I presume 17 was able to land that surprise attack on Jiren was because his energy couldn't be detected. That's a neat little touch.

Aww I didn't think about that. Very very nice touch indeed. This episode had a lot of those awesome little touches. Episode 127 was amazing. It joins episodes 110, 116, 118, 121, 123, and 125 as my all time favorites in Super

You both put too much confidence in Super's writers. If they can't even make the death of 17, a fan favorite character, be emotional at all, then I highly doubt they'd be good enough writers to pay enough attention to him not having energy. He caught him by surprise because he attacked from behind, that's all.

What's emotional is subjective and depends entirely on that person's psyche/outlook etc

There are just some people out there who are never going to feel emotion no matter "how emotional a scene is done"

That's can't be changed until that person's views or outlook changes

And I'm sure there are some who wont really care because it's just anime

However the consensus on youtube seems to be that it was a very well done and emotional scene

[Artorias]

The best part about Jiren's backstory is when 17 immediately basically shit on it the moment Belmod finished explaining. I feel like he represented the fans there.

"So...you're essentially just a massive dickhead upset about your past? Wow, real impressed."

[ZenkaiBoosts]

I'm surprised by the amount of complaints I've seen towards Jiren's backstory. Sure, it's cliché as fuck, but so is a lot of Dragon Ball. Someone pointed out the resemblance between Jiren and Toguro from Yu Yu Hakusho after what unfolded in this episode, and I completely agree with that comparison. What I loved about Toguro was that he was an absolute monster with almost zero personality. It wasn't until very late into the Dark Tournament arc that we learned something about him. Same goes with Jiren. You're left with this ambiguity surrounding the character for the majority of the time, only to learn more about him way later on.

I've also come to like his character design as well. It's incredibly simple, but he can look absolutely terrifying when he needs to. The simple design is a reflection of his character... he has no character. His only purpose is to be strong as fuck. Just a strong dude with zero emotions. I mean fuck, it's in his name. He's called Jiren the Grey for a reason. No emotion. No attachments. Nothing. Just a super strong guy for Goku and his friends to take on. I get that some people want more out of their antagonists, but after something like Black/Zamasu, this is actually refreshing.

Sadly its internet culture to complain. I'm now convinced that if the internet were around during the days of DBZ, people wouldve thrashed DBZ too.

[Artorias]

People didn't love the Freeza scene? That was one of the best parts of the episode. Not everything has to be "important," but having another fun scene of Freeza going beserk and then being sucker punched into the comets was great.

What's the point of it? I think for the past 3 episodes we've had a scene where Freeza charges at the enemy, gets blown away, and is then knocked out the rest of the episode. It's just repeating the same thing over and over again, making the character look like a complete fool.

That's what sucks about it, because I actually think that it's a genuinely great scene on it's own. It's just that it's effect is ruined by the fact that this happened TWICE directly before this. Get rid of his useless scene in 126 and this scene has a lot more of a punch to it and doesn't make him look as incompetent.

[Kataphrut]

The best part about Jiren's backstory is when 17 immediately basically shit on it the moment Belmod finished explaining. I feel like he represented the fans there.

"So...you're essentially just a massive dickhead upset about your past? Wow, real impressed."

Pretty much. That's the one good thing about it, it contextualises his character and explains why he is the way he is, while at the same time treating it as a character flaw by having 17 call him out on it.

The problem with it is that we've seen it so many times before in other things. It's hard to call him his own character when he's more like a collection of tropes taken from other characters. Superman, Doomsday, Saitama, now we can add Sasuke, Toguro, and Batman to the list.

[avasatu]

Great episode.

Mind-numbingly generic Jiren backstory, yet the plainness of it is somehow fitting. It also very much has the opportunity to be not so generic in the future. Who is the evil-doer? It seems like Jiren is Superman in action, but Batman at heart. Strange, given how conflicting the personalities of those two characters are.

What exactly is Jiren's wish? I can think of several options. The line "strength forgives all, even the past" is curious.

I wonder if his efforts to become so strong that he transcends time (Ep. 111) are his attempts to become so powerful that he can travel back into the past.

RIP 17. Most valuable player on the stage, and gave up his island, family, and animals for a complete unknown.

One thing I find interesting is that Goku has been through much worse loss than Jiren has, yet he always has had the DBs to clean it up. Jiren is the product of a universe without such fortune.

[Whatever]

It went unmentioned in the episode itself, but I presume 17 was able to land that surprise attack on Jiren was because his energy couldn't be detected. That's a neat little touch.

Aww I didn't think about that. Very very nice touch indeed. This episode had a lot of those awesome little touches. Episode 127 was amazing. It joins episodes 110, 116, 118, 121, 123, and 125 as my all time favorites in Super

You both put too much confidence in Super's writers. If they can't even make the death of 17, a fan favorite character, be emotional at all, then I highly doubt they'd be good enough writers to pay enough attention to him not having energy. He caught him by surprise because he attacked from behind, that's all.

I mean to be fair 17 was not a fan favourite till this arc.

I think the biggest problem is that no matter how awesome and how well 17 did in this arc is that his sacrifice would not land well.
Thats not because of 17's character or anything but because of the simple fact he appeared very little(and we knew very little about him)before this arc.

Dude came back of obsurity and turned out to be a secret badass,the darkhorse of U7 and on top of that we learnt more about him and most of the fandom loves him but in the end we did not spend much time with him to be emotionally invested in his sacrifice.

[Artorias]

The best part about Jiren's backstory is when 17 immediately basically shit on it the moment Belmod finished explaining. I feel like he represented the fans there.

"So...you're essentially just a massive dickhead upset about your past? Wow, real impressed."

Pretty much. That's the one good thing about it, it contextualises his character and explains why he is the way he is, while at the same time treating it as a character flaw by having 17 call him out on it.

The problem with it is that we've seen it so many times before in other things. It's hard to call him his own character when he's more like a collection of tropes taken from other characters. Superman, Doomsday, Saitama, now we can add Sasuke, Toguro, and Batman to the list.

It's beyond a trope at this point. I wasn't even expecting anything interesting with his backstory, but even I'm still let down.

I'm surprised by the amount of complaints I've seen towards Jiren's backstory. Sure, it's cliché as fuck, but so is a lot of Dragon Ball.

Dragon Ball is only "cliche" because it created the cliches that other shows would go onto copy and expand on. So retroactively, it looks generic. But it's really not.

[Android 21]

There is a disturbing shortage of sexy Vegeta gifs in here!

[ZenkaiBoosts]

^ lol absolutely gross.

Let's at least get some gifs of Kale in here lol.

[Sandubadear]

Episode had very good parts and very bad parts almost at the same time. They really didn't have to do two self destructions in a row. At least 17 didn't go with an "empty" coolness, he actually was really cool in this episode.

It was cool seeing Freeza finally attacking Jiren despite being scared of him earlier, but I'll get mad if they "forget" Freeza is still in there despite him appearing all the time.

[Kaiosama]

Fantastic episode. 17's sacrifice was unexpected. Unfortunately Vegeta continues to be unbearable. He's back to talking shit to a foe way beyond his league. I'm looking forward to his beating next episode so we can finally get back to UI Goku. The Bulma vision should be interesting to say the least.

[TheZFighter]

When Super ends I'll look back on a number of aspects that I didn't like, but also a number of aspects I have loved. 17 is right at the top of the "loved" list

I've always been a fan of the 17 character but wow, he has been fantastic in this tournament, both as a character and as a competitor. Definitely MVP-standard.

Looking forward to seeing Vegeta in the next episode.

[lord turbo]

The best part about Jiren's backstory is when 17 immediately basically shit on it the moment Belmod finished explaining. I feel like he represented the fans there.

"So...you're essentially just a massive dickhead upset about your past? Wow, real impressed."

Pretty much, 17 went DBZ:Fighters on him.

The problem with it is that we've seen it so many times before in other things. It's hard to call him his own character when he's more like a collection of tropes taken from other characters. Superman, Doomsday, Saitama, now we can add Sasuke, Toguro, and Batman to the list.

You can add Aang, Kenshin, Samurai Jack, Straw Hats, Jin Kariya, Ryhou (S-cry-ed), Terry Bogard (KoF), Scorpion (MK), Link (Pick any game), and Ryu (SF) while you are at it.

[KingKaash]

Wow nice episode! Good bounce back from Episode 126. It's crazy but this episode's best parts to me was involving Jiren, Frieza and Android 17.

-Loved the Jiren backstory. This is what we needed before the ToP started in the anime for guys like Jiren but I know the writers wanted to keep Jiren a major mystery until the end of the ToP. Now we understand why Jiren is so solemn. His parents, his master and his comrades were all murdered by an evildoer. And that's when he realized only strength can help him not emotion. I still don't get how someone from his race can get that insanely strong but I'll accept it. He did cast aside everything else. Like I've said before, I would love a Pride Troopers spin-off show.

-Frieza's anger was real intense. But Jiren squashed Golden Frieza like a bug. Insane strength displayed once again by Jiren.

-So Android 17 finally goes out (and I don't mean that sarcastically). To me, Android 17 was the MVP of the ToP. I don't know how many eliminations he got but he was by far the best character to follow throughout the ToP. He had good strength, great strategy and nice teamwork. I never expected that he would sacrifice himself like that. I can't believe he's gone. I know the show won't continue but hopefully he's wished back at the end.

Next episode looks like another whack Vegeta episode. Is he really going to fight Jiren in base?

[JazzMazz]

Wow nice episode! Good bounce back from Episode 126. It's crazy but this episode's best parts to me was involving Jiren, Frieza and Android 17.

-Loved the Jiren backstory. This is what we needed before the ToP started in the anime for guys like Jiren but I know the writers wanted to keep Jiren a major mystery until the end of the ToP. Now we understand why Jiren is so solemn. His parents, his master and his comrades were all murdered by an evildoer. And that's when he realized only strength can help him not emotion. I still don't get how someone from his race can get that insanely strong but I'll accept it. He did cast aside everything else. Like I've said before, I would love a Pride Troopers spin-off show.

-Frieza's anger was real intense. But Jiren squashed Golden Frieza like a bug. Insane strength displayed once again by Jiren.

-So Android 17 finally goes out (and I don't mean that sarcastically). To me, Android 17 was the MVP of the ToP. I don't know how many eliminations he got but he was by far the best character to follow throughout the ToP. He had good strength, great strategy and nice teamwork. I never expected that he would sacrifice himself like that. I can't believe he's gone. I know the show won't continue but hopefully he's wished back at the end.

Next episode looks like another whack Vegeta episode. Is he really going to fight Jiren in base?

From the preview, I don't think fight is the right word to describe the Jiren wrecking Vegeta's base form. I think his going to beaten to pulp. Its going to be another Vegeta vs Kid Buu.

[mahakaishin1991]

The best part about Jiren's backstory is when 17 immediately basically shit on it the moment Belmod finished explaining. I feel like he represented the fans there.

"So...you're essentially just a massive dickhead upset about your past? Wow, real impressed."

Pretty much. That's the one good thing about it, it contextualises his character and explains why he is the way he is, while at the same time treating it as a character flaw by having 17 call him out on it.

The problem with it is that we've seen it so many times before in other things. It's hard to call him his own character when he's more like a collection of tropes taken from other characters. Superman, Doomsday, Saitama, now we can add Sasuke, Toguro, and Batman to the list.

To be fair, I'm not seeing Saitama anymore or Doomsday.

[mahakaishin1991]

Freeza going Namek saga rage break was pretty good, but he should have been ringed out.

17 Confirmed undisputed MVP Barrier Warrior of the TOP, and tugged on my heartstrings a bit.

Jiren... i was expecting them to subvert superman by going down a Zodd route 'I have no people' moment, but instead he's something else. Still troupy but theres someone other than Batman or Sasuke I'm thinking of but cant place a name.

17 going savage on his backstory was unintentionally hilarious.

Vegeta continues to talk out of his ass.

A nice twist would be that 'villain' being Black

[Kataphrut]

The best part about Jiren's backstory is when 17 immediately basically shit on it the moment Belmod finished explaining. I feel like he represented the fans there.

"So...you're essentially just a massive dickhead upset about your past? Wow, real impressed."

Pretty much. That's the one good thing about it, it contextualises his character and explains why he is the way he is, while at the same time treating it as a character flaw by having 17 call him out on it.

The problem with it is that we've seen it so many times before in other things. It's hard to call him his own character when he's more like a collection of tropes taken from other characters. Superman, Doomsday, Saitama, now we can add Sasuke, Toguro, and Batman to the list.

To be fair, I'm not seeing Saitama anymore or Doomsday.

Fair dos. Saitama was mainly the vibe I got from him after the special, where it was like "I'm so strong I don't give a shit any more". Same with Doomsday, being a big grey monster to smash the hero. Both those aspects have gone now as Goku and co start chipping away at him while Jiren himself gets more...emotional I guess is the word?

Hell, he's barely Superman at this point. Although I'm waiting for the post-wrap Toriyama interview where someone asks him what the inspiration for Jiren was and he says "well, someone in the office showed me a video made by this American company called Screw Attack..."

[Torturephile]

-I don't like how they have been handling Freeza in these recent episodes. This whole saga, the Freeza that we saw was different than the Freeza from before. This Freeza was more calculating and composed, seemingly knowing well his limitations and schemed to use Goku in order get to the super dragon balls and possibly overthrow the current lineup of gods. These past episodes, however, have him act as either his temperamental and impulsive Namek self, complete with references to that saga, or his ToP self, and his schemes have completely disappeared regardless. Every time he has been appearing recently, he gets kicked around for a few seconds before disappearing for the rest of the episode. Somehow this episode had him get mad at Jiren for no reason since they never fought at all. It is a shame because he was my favorite characters in the ToP, but now the title goes to...

-17 has officially been promoted to be one of my favorite characters in Super. I'm on the camp of people who never cared much about 17 (and 18 for that matter as well) back in Z. He was just a random overconfident rebel who had a neat fight with Piccolo but got physically and emotionally smacked hard by Cell until he was absorbed, and nearly got the Launch treatment. GT didn't help at all either. However, enter Super, and he is one of the smartest, most tactical, and most strategical members of U7, with a plethora of useful techniques and general dependability through teamwork, and saved some of his team members like Goku multiple times. I simply adore how fearless he has grown in the face of danger as well. With Piccolo, who he was evenly matched with, he still retained his cocky demeanor, but once the more powerful Cell showed up, he lost his calm and proceeded to throw a tantrum about how he was no longer the strongest android around, but in the ToP, while getting dominated by Toppo and later Jiren, he puts his brains to work and comes up with ideas on how to take care of the situation on the fly, and generally kept his act together more than most other characters so far.

-Jiren has finally some backstory. While it does help a bit to better understand why is Jiren the way he is, I can't possibly fathom how very common it is, and unfortunately for me, it came too late for me to care about it and make Jiren more interesting as most of his interactions up to this point weren't much more entertaining either.

-I knew someone had to successfully sacrifice him/herself in this tournament, so 17 doing it wasn't much of a surprise to me.