Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

[Doctor.]

The worst part of the episode, however, was the over-the-top melodrama. Characters getting stronger by reminiscing over their past or their loved ones. What is this, Fairy Tail? Dragon Ball had done of good job of avoiding this kind of kitsch shit. It's just so incredibly awful, melodrama like this has no place in Dragon Ball. Jiren gets mad and thinks of his past. Makes a big speech about it. Gets massively stronger. Goku gets mad and thinks of his friends. Makes a big speech about it. Gets massively stronger. You know what those kinds of emotions got you in the original series (minus some very scarce exceptions, and ignoring the fact that melodramatic speeches weren't present in the original series to begin with)?

Super Saiyan.

And Super Saiyan 2.

Err-hem.

(minus some very scarce exceptions, and ignoring the fact that melodramatic speeches weren't present in the original series to begin with)?

Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2 weren't transformations that happened after a long speech and flashback about the importance of friends (or, in Jiren's case, lack thereof), nor did they get multiple power-ups after that in the course of the same fight. They happened organically as a result of events in the narrative. They did not feel forced, as these power-ups felt here. It's incredibly disingenuous to try to claim these are the same.

[Lord Frieza]

Man, I'm can not compute what was this episode yet... Even though the whole battle was epic animated... Probably the best I ever seen in the franchise...

Why the need of having not just Freeza, but 17 (still god damn alive) to fight a fully powered Jiren while Goku is "almost dead"?

This is just ridiculous to the point they think the audience will eat every shit they drop it.

Well people wanted Jiren to have a bit more character. Triggered PTSD, hatred for trust and friendship, saying he will destroy what Goku believes in, actively trying to murder all of Team 7 despite being a hero yet not happy about winning becuase Goku's burned out were some very nice touch's to his character I think.

Yeah people can't complain about Jiren not having a character anymore.

Actually we can, he just became a generic asshole villain who could not stand losing, reminds me of Cell.

How are they the same?

Cell could not stand losing becuase he's a shallow being obsessed with his own perfection. With litararly nothing to fall back on mentally, his entire life being a quest for one goal and not truly gaining anything better after achieving it, anything that threatens that sends him into full Frieza/Vegeta tantrum mode.

Jiren dose not what to lose becuase he assosiats failer with losing everything. In his mind he lost his family becuase he was weak and he lost his second one and was abandond by the survivors for the same reason. Despite his contempt for "friendship" thats all Jiren truly wants but he honestly believes that is he should ever show weakness of any kind, Toppo (who calls himself Jiren's sworn friend) and the other pride troopers will abandon him and he will be alone again. Jiren is almost paradox. He craves friendship but believes it can only be obtained through power so he became the strongest to get it, but due to his obsession with strength him comes off as anti-social. Goku is unintentionally threatening everything Jiren himself believes in, as a result unleashed all his bottled up emotions and causing him act psychotically.

[RedHeat]

I kinda feel like people are sorta missing the shredding of ideals in desperate situations subtheme these last few episodes have.

[HybridSaiyan]

The writing was probably the pinnacle of Super. Goku's characterisation was also excellent, this is exactly how Goku is. He cares for his friends and he fights for them. And Jiren of course descends into the jackass only caring for strength that he is.

No, Goku Is the hope of the universe. The light In the darkness, he Is the truth and protector of the Innocent.

[8bitdee]

This is just ridiculous to the point they think the audience will eat every shit they drop it.

And their thoughts are substantiated, as even after all the plot problems people complain about, DBS is as popular is its ever been. The Crunchyroll servers went completely down, I had to find alternative means to watch this. People will come back for more, and you will too next week, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I was actually hoping for Frieza to have been the one to incapacitate Goku at the end, if only to firmly cement his place as a villain. I really, really, REALLY don't like the direction they're heading with that character.

Same, but hopefully the ending next week (and the film in December) redeem him once again.

But that hasn’t really been what Dragon Ball has generally been about. The fact that Goku has a reputation for being a selfish jerk is probably a testament to the fact that DB isn’t really a series about friendship.

You're kidding, right? I don't think we have watched the same series. Despite some questionable actions, Goku has always been about protecting his friends.

Firstly, Jiren was reduced to nothing more than a caricature of what a Dragon Ball antagonist should be like

Yeah, because he was really interesting before.

Thirdly, Goku is being hit and damaged in Ultra Instinct... how, exactly? Theoretically, just because your body reacts on its own doesn't mean it has time to react, I get that. That's a solid enough excuse. Shame the series didn't bother to provide it. UI was always portrayed as this unstoppable force before this point, and its only downsides were the time limit and the need to focus to attack (which are now obsolete), but here it is, getting hit... just because.

The aura around Jiren is exactly like Goku's, so it's implied that Jiren has somewhat achieved a level close to his, at least enough to help him keep up.

The worst part of the episode, however, was the over-the-top melodrama. Characters getting stronger by reminiscing over their past or their loved ones. What is this, Fairy Tail? Dragon Ball had done of good job of avoiding this kind of kitsch shit. It's just so incredibly awful, melodrama like this has no place in Dragon Ball.

Again, another person who apparently hasn't seen an episode of Dragon Ball before.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Why did they have to leave 17 alive? He has already made his role in the tournament, why force the character so much? People can not complain when someone criticizes the slightly exaggerated highlight for 17. I never had any problem in that, but in that case it bothered me.
It would be much better if only Freeza remained in the arena to finish Jiren.
And Goku again will get up, it seems that the burden of breaking the limits of a divine technique (as Whis said) does not exist

The fact that the UI is hit is also strange.

But really, the animation was amazing, I really enjoyed Shida here. The fight was also more dynamic than on EP 129.

Vegeta has officially been surpassed in importance in the series by Frieza and 17. Who would have thought.

Yeah, this is like the biggest "fuck you" to those who say Dragon Ball is all about Saiyans and only Saiyans can do anything. In our top three we have Goku (using a form that has nothing to do with Super Saiyan), Freeza and ANDROID 17!!! I had high hopes for Gohan, but I'll take this outcome.

This was such a dumb episode, but such a gloriously animated, over-the-top cheesy type of dumb that I couldn't help but love it. What little dialogue there was between Goku and Jiren was glurgy Power of Friendship waffle straight out of a bad Persona 4 spinoff but I don't care. Jiren trying to attack the stands filled with Goku's friends (and several high-ranking deities that could squash him for pulling that shit) in a fit of petulance made no sense but I don't care! Goku's power overloading and needing to be saved by Freeza and ANDROID 17 OUTTA NOWHERE MADE NO SENSE BUT I DON'T CARE BECAUSE THIS IS THE BEST KIND OF FANSERVICEY JUNK FOOD WITH ANIMATION THAT RIVALS THE MOVIES. AND WE'RE NOT EVEN GETTING TAKAHASHI UNTIL NEXT WEEK.

This is probably the best approach they could've taken. The arc has so many problems that are too ingrained now to fix up in the space of two episodes. I think it's for the best that they don't bother trying and instead go balls to the wall and lean into the strengths, which are good-looking fights, fun teamups and WWE character motivations and twists.

I think it's good. I'm tired of Vegeta being pushed so much just for the sake of having someone who can keep up with Goku, despite being a bland character. He was rewarded far too much in this tournament for his pride. 17 and Frieza are far more interesting characters. This was an excellent decision by Toriyama and Toei. No more contrived Vegeta BS. Hopefully they continue this trend moving forward.

WTF? So not staying in the final three in the tournament nullifies the highlight he had during the entire DBS? Where did he stand out like Goku? Undoes the highlight he had in the final battle against U11, in which Vegeta had at least 4 episodes focused on him? What you're saying is meaningless.
Vegeta will not be forgotten, do not count on it

[ToshioWrites]

Jiren is speaking for us all

[Melee_Sovereign]

Jiren is basically antinakama power. Should've been a Fairy Tail villain.

[chickensguys]

I liked the writing in the episode. Goku and Jiren are both obsessed with becoming stronger, but they're polar opposites. Jiren going so far as to trying to murder Goku's friends was crazy..

I agree with you, and I think that the people who are calling this episode bad writing are just wrong. This episode alone did more the develop Jiren then the entire series thus far, we should be applauding the writing when compare with what it was previously.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

And Goku didn't use the "Godly Display" attack in the episode? Hmm, I kinda wanted to see that move...

[jeffbr92]

I'm sorry to burst everyone's bubble here, but the writing was atrocious. I'm not exactly sure how anyone can be happy about the way these characters are being portrayed. Firstly, Jiren was reduced to nothing more than a caricature of what a Dragon Ball antagonist should be like; he's up against Goku so let's villanize him at the cost of everything that made Jiren be. He lost anything original that he had before with that stunt of attacking Goku's friends. Secondly, #17 being alive, unbeknownst to ALL the angels and Gods (might as well tell me Tenshinhan and Hit still have clones in the arena), makes his already weightless sacrifice completely pointless. Thirdly, Goku is being hit and damaged in Ultra Instinct... how, exactly? Theoretically, just because your body reacts on its own doesn't mean it has time to react, I get that. That's a solid enough excuse. Shame the series didn't bother to provide it. UI was always portrayed as this unstoppable force before this point, and its only downsides were the time limit and the need to focus to attack (which are now obsolete), but here it is, getting hit... just because.

The worst part of the episode, however, was the over-the-top melodrama. Characters getting stronger by reminiscing over their past or their loved ones. What is this, Fairy Tail? Dragon Ball had done of good job of avoiding this kind of kitsch shit. It's just so incredibly awful, melodrama like this has no place in Dragon Ball. Jiren gets mad and thinks of his past. Makes a big speech about it. Gets massively stronger. Goku gets mad and thinks of his friends. Makes a big speech about it. Gets massively stronger. You know what those kinds of emotions got you in the original series (minus some very scarce exceptions, and ignoring the fact that melodramatic speeches weren't present in the original series to begin with)? An ass-kicking.

Bravo to your post, Doctor.!

I'm very glad with your contribution! If we take that this was the best animated DB episode of all time, people sure would think this was asbolute shit. Not trying to imply they are blind because of it, but the point still stands.

I agree with all the bold parts, but I don't agree with you saying characters were getting stronger because of their loved ones... Who in this episode did that? The only thing that I saw was Goku pissed because Jiren trying (ridiculously) murder his friends.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Why was Jiren trying to kill gokus friends? Whis ans beerus were there.

Also I kinda feel bad for jiren.

I think he was trying to prove a point to goku that all that he holds dear - friendship and family can be taken away from him so easily. Kind of like it was from him

That was such a raw scene. I love how this episode Goku was Jiren's wall.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

Maybe the Beerus shedding tears photo will appear next week? Thought this episode would have it unless I missed it completely.

[ToshioWrites]

The director of DB last week said he wanted kids to learn from this fight. Thats why the whole "power of friendship" thing was hammed up , whether you like it or not, thats the reason. Goku's universe is gonna win because he had trust in 2 past villains to help his team while Jiren didn't trust anyone, yada yada yada!

[Doctor.]

Yeah, because he was really interesting before.

I didn't claim that. He was a bad character then and he's a terrible character now. All I'm saying is that they could have done something interesting with him. Him being a superhero with such a personality could have been the source of an interesting conflict. But they seemingly ignored to address Jiren's personality until the last few episodes and now they're forgetting all about the fact that he's a superhero and villanizing him for the sake of the spectacle.

The aura around Jiren is exactly like Goku's, so it's implied that Jiren has somewhat achieved a level close to his, at least enough to help him keep up.

I'll say this again: that's a good excuse but it's a shame the show doesn't give enough of a shit to give it to you.

Again, another person who apparently hasn't seen an episode of Dragon Ball before.

The second one is filler so I won't even bother addressing it because Toei has an obsession with melodrama (exhibit A: this episode). As to the other two: again, it comes down to execution. The original series was a lot more subtle and nuanced in regards to how it handled its emotional moments and the very rare emotional speeches were never tied to the increase in strength. Vegeta's sacrifice doesn't boost his strength at all and it accomplishes nothing. #16's speech was liberating, but it was his death that pushed Gohan further beyond. And look what happens when he transforms: no speeches about "protecting my friends!", no flashbacks. The visuals and the music do the talking. Compare that to the way the power-ups were executed this episode and realize how they're not comparable in the slightest.

[ToshioWrites]

Maybe the Beerus shedding tears photo will appear next week? Thought this episode would have it unless I missed it completely.

That was a fake

[Dylanrockin]

I just noticed that after the scene Jiren tried attacking the bleachers and Goku furiously retaliated, Goku was using the Ultra Instinct Kamehameha to jump off of Jiren's energy blasts, like he did with Kefla, except his feet and hands were doing it :O Please excuse my hype.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

Maybe the Beerus shedding tears photo will appear next week? Thought this episode would have it unless I missed it completely.

That was a fake

Oh, thanks, didn't know that.

[Firebolt]

What an incredible episode. I honestly have no complaints whatsoever. Jiren's finally getting some character, the storyboard and direction were marvellous, and of course the animation was spectacular!

Looks like we're gonna get a GT-esque ending, whatever I'm fine with that.

[Sandubadear]

Well done toei, you completely played us...

Everyone knew since day one that toei would play the card "pretend Freeza is not there, and have him steal the win at the end" but nobody predicted that #17 would also reappear (except in ironic memes, nobody can say that they truly believed that).

Episode was 10/10, the final minutes had me pulling my hair, the art was incredible.