Dragonball Z: Saiyan Saga - Help make this happen!

[Hellspawn28]

I think they will have a hard time making Freeza unless they go for CG or do motion capture similar to movies like Lord of the Rings and Avatar. I doubt they have the type of money to pull that type of stuff off.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

...So I actually tweeted the filmmakers writing I felt it was pretty bad. I then, just to see what would come out of it, commented that some feel their "non profit" video isn't so "non profit." They replied "haha ok..." Judging from the replies I've read, this video is being well received on Twitter, but I honestly feel their efforts are being congratulated and not their actual work. People just want DB with real people. Some people even want a Freeza saga next which (judging by how Chiaotzu looked) should be pretty weird.

That's the same impression I got when reading the Youtube comments. Most of the people were thanking them from making something better than Evolution or saying things like "How does it feel to be shown up Hollywood." But you know, if I'm being truly honest with myself I don't think they did a better job than Evloution. Yea they were more faithful, but I don't know if I'd call their work better.

[DerekPadula]

I'm a supporter of any fan project where a serious effort was put forth. Whether it's live action, animated, or written, it's not easy to create something from nothing and dedicate yourself to a project for an extended period of time. It takes a huge commitment and sacrifice in many areas of life, including by your family members. It's the life of an artist, and I believe that effort should be recognized.

And I feel it should be recognized even if you don't like the end result. It's still commendable because most people don't even try, let alone complete an original creation. Much easier to critique from the sidelines. Have you heard the saying, "You can't hit a home run if you don't swing the bat."? It's very true! You should at least applaud their courage to stand on the plate and get a run on base, right?

To comment on PafuPafu's statement about not asking them about the copyright issues during the interview being "poor taste." To be completely honest, it didn't cross my mind to ask the question! I was more focused on trying to get to the real story behind the development of the film... the thing most readers care about. That's where the heart and emotions, the experiences and hardships overcome, all originate. Each person's truth and way of life is their own Dao, like Kendamu said, and I enjoy bringing that out and sharing it with others.

Plus I think there are bigger problems in the world (for example, chemical weapons, forced organ harvesting, financial greed) than what an animation company decides to do with a couple of fans with a camera and some donated money.

Looking at it now I consider it to be of even worse taste to ask a question I knew they didn't have the answers to right before the premiere of a film they spent a year working on and are nervous about. Don't you think that's kind of a slap in the face? And it's not like I shy away from asking serious questions in my interviews. Look on Google for my interview with the Head Abbot of the Shaolin Temple for an example. Point being that the tone of the K & K interview was celebratory and exploratory in nature. It's not hard news. It's Dragon Ball fan project news.

I think this would all come through if you could actually have the discussion with them yourselves and hear their voices. The static nature of the written word in an interview takes the emotions out of their voice. My interpretation is that these guys are young, inexperienced fans who wanted to produce something other fans would love. That's all. The legalities are not their area of expertise. They certainly weren't out to screw anybody over, and there was nothing of value to our discussion that merited inclusion in the interview. It was like, "Hey, you know the copyright thing with your book? How'd you do that?" And then I told them.

Harry and I talked about it off the record after the interview was over because he wanted to know my experiences with FUNimation. I spoke for about 30 seconds and then he asked if I could contact the legal representative I know at FUNimation on his behalf. Why? I guess because he doesn't have the same contacts, doesn't have any of the answers to questions that people keep asking him, and because it takes frickin' forever (i.e. months and years) to get to a real person at FUNimation who cares. Not to mention the long distance calls.

He didn't have the experience to know whether his project would be shut down, but it's not like he wasn't aware it could end at any moment. Some fans out their made it their mission to point it out. I had the same experience with my book, and I can say that at some point you have to stop caring about the nay sayers, get past the fear, and keep moving forward. Otherwise the fear shuts you down. It's a serious threshold guardian that every artist has to get past. There are so many different types of fear to overcome, including the fear of putting it out there and having it judged.

Harry just wanted to make a film with his brother George because they love Dragon Ball Z and are film makers. Seemed like a fun thing to do. Then it took on a life of its own and now you have all these people talking about it, criticizing it and saying it's no good.

I don't even care about the end result of their project. I care about the journey they took to get there. That journey is worth applauding because that's what life is about!

[Tanooki Kuribo]

I have a question, I'm a little confused about this. I haven't been following this so please forgive my ignorance.

Is this a trailer for the Saiyan Saga fan made movie? Or was the project itself just a mock trailer?

[Kendamu]

I have a question, I'm a little confused about this. I haven't been following this so please forgive my ignorance.

Is this a trailer for the Saiyan Saga fan made movie? Or was the project itself just a mock trailer?

The trailer is the final product and is supposed to show that a live action DBZ that is faithful can be done. It's a "proof of concept," it seems.

[Hellspawn28]

I think the trailer spoiled too much if this was a real movie trailer. Anyone is not a fan of the series would not care for any of the characters since they saw their deaths happening in the trailer.

[Zephyr]

I think the trailer spoiled too much if this was a real movie trailer. Anyone is not a fan of the series would not care for any of the characters since they saw their deaths happening in the trailer.

To be fair, I doubt these are the people this is aimed at. True, if it was a real movie trailer, it would have spoiled far too much. But like Kendamu said, it's more of a proof of concept, showing that specific scenes could be emulated to such a faithful degree. From what I'm seeing, at least.

[Pafupafu]

...So I actually tweeted the filmmakers writing I felt it was pretty bad. I then, just to see what would come out of it, commented that some feel their "non profit" video isn't so "non profit." They replied "haha ok..." Judging from the replies I've read, this video is being well received on Twitter, but I honestly feel their efforts are being congratulated and not their actual work. People just want DB with real people. Some people even want a Freeza saga next which (judging by how Chiaotzu looked) should be pretty weird.

That's the same impression I got when reading the Youtube comments. Most of the people were thanking them from making something better than Evolution or saying things like "How does it feel to be shown up Hollywood." But you know, if I'm being truly honest with myself I don't think they did a better job than Evloution. Yea they were more faithful, but I don't know if I'd call their work better.

I agree completely. And I think Evolution is one of the worst movies I've ever seen.

I think the main problem with recreating DragonBall in a live-action form is that an extremely talented Visual Effects company or supervisor has to be on board throughout the entire process. It's quite obvious that K&K did not plan their visual effects sequences very extensively from the get go and the result is extremely disheartening. The effects used in this Video are something that people have done better in other videos, without funding, without promotion, without all of the conveniences that K&K had throughout.

K&K, in my opinion, do not deserve to be congratulated. Especially for anything related the DragonBall. They took this property and claimed it almost as their own for months and finally have presented something that shows it never belonged to them as they failed to produce a product worthy of the DragonBall property.

[Pafupafu]

I'm a supporter of any fan project where a serious effort was put forth. Whether it's live action, animated, or written, it's not easy to create something from nothing and dedicate yourself to a project for an extended period of time. It takes a huge commitment and sacrifice in many areas of life, including by your family members. It's the life of an artist, and I believe that effort should be recognized.

And I feel it should be recognized even if you don't like the end result. It's still commendable because most people don't even try, let alone complete an original creation. Much easier to critique from the sidelines. Have you heard the saying, "You can't hit a home run if you don't swing the bat."? It's very true! You should at least applaud their courage to stand on the plate and get a run on base, right?

To comment on PafuPafu's statement about not asking them about the copyright issues during the interview being "poor taste." To be completely honest, it didn't cross my mind to ask the question! I was more focused on trying to get to the real story behind the development of the film... the thing most readers care about. That's where the heart and emotions, the experiences and hardships overcome, all originate. Each person's truth and way of life is their own Dao, like Kendamu said, and I enjoy bringing that out and sharing it with others.

Plus I think there are bigger problems in the world (for example, chemical weapons, forced organ harvesting, financial greed) than what an animation company decides to do with a couple of fans with a camera and some donated money.

Looking at it now I consider it to be of even worse taste to ask a question I knew they didn't have the answers to right before the premiere of a film they spent a year working on and are nervous about. Don't you think that's kind of a slap in the face? And it's not like I shy away from asking serious questions in my interviews. Look on Google for my interview with the Head Abbot of the Shaolin Temple for an example. Point being that the tone of the K & K interview was celebratory and exploratory in nature. It's not hard news. It's Dragon Ball fan project news.

I think this would all come through if you could actually have the discussion with them yourselves and hear their voices. The static nature of the written word in an interview takes the emotions out of their voice. My interpretation is that these guys are young, inexperienced fans who wanted to produce something other fans would love. That's all. The legalities are not their area of expertise. They certainly weren't out to screw anybody over, and there was nothing of value to our discussion that merited inclusion in the interview. It was like, "Hey, you know the copyright thing with your book? How'd you do that?" And then I told them.

Harry and I talked about it off the record after the interview was over because he wanted to know my experiences with FUNimation. I spoke for about 30 seconds and then he asked if I could contact the legal representative I know at FUNimation on his behalf. Why? I guess because he doesn't have the same contacts, doesn't have any of the answers to questions that people keep asking him, and because it takes frickin' forever (i.e. months and years) to get to a real person at FUNimation who cares. Not to mention the long distance calls.

He didn't have the experience to know whether his project would be shut down, but it's not like he wasn't aware it could end at any moment. Some fans out their made it their mission to point it out. I had the same experience with my book, and I can say that at some point you have to stop caring about the nay sayers, get past the fear, and keep moving forward. Otherwise the fear shuts you down. It's a serious threshold guardian that every artist has to get past. There are so many different types of fear to overcome, including the fear of putting it out there and having it judged.

Harry just wanted to make a film with his brother George because they love Dragon Ball Z and are film makers. Seemed like a fun thing to do. Then it took on a life of its own and now you have all these people talking about it, criticizing it and saying it's no good.

I don't even care about the end result of their project. I care about the journey they took to get there. That journey is worth applauding because that's what life is about!

I obviously disagree with you that K&K deserve to be congratulated for this effort as I simply do not respect their choices to abuse IndieGoGo and associate themselves with a well-known property in order to further their own business ventures.

I understand that you didn't ask the questions regarding this because of the timing and nature of the interview but I think it was morally wrong for them to blindly move forward with this project, with other people's money, knowing full-well that they were legally not entitled to do so. It's one thing to claim ignorance to the law, it's another to acknowledge it and disregard it entirely.

You say there are bigger problems in the world and one of those problems you listed was, ironically, Financial Greed. Derek, the general public and the people who donated thousands and thousands of dollars to this project deserve to know where this money went as there is a very likely chance that Greed played a big part in K&K's decision process. We, as the general public, should not feel comfortable knowing that all we have to go on is the word of K&K. This is the fundamental process of Checks and Balances within our society and government. These Checks and Balances should be applied to K&K, who are the same people who essentially "sold" this project based on an initial video that contained 0% of K&K's work and 100% Toei. There is no reason NOT to think that K&K did not keep some of those funds for themselves as they have already shown ignorance to one law, why not another?

Unfortunately I also disagree about "The Journey" being the most important result of this project. No. No. No. People PAID for the END result. Not for a "journey" of two brothers. K&K made promises and advertised false capabilities. They had, on multiple occasions, presented actual footage from the series for their own advertising purposes. They had advertised their own talent to produce something worthy of this property and failed on every level, from the promotional material (see: Chi Chi) to the Final Video (see: everything).

This entire project was built on a criminal action and a grave mistake. People make mistakes every day. I just don't think it's right that it took $15,000+ of public funding for K&K to realize their own.

[Thanos]

I think Pafupafu's point is valid. How do we know that, after receiving all of their funds, they didn't get greedy and decide to minimize funding for the project? It's entirely possible. They had the opportunity to pocket a significant amount of cash, and with the way the final product turned out, it seems as though that may very well have been what happened. As has been stated previously in this thread, there really isn't any clear distinction in quality between this and fan projects that were done with little to no funding or personal funds. High School kids with laptops in their bedrooms can quite easily, and often do, create video projects with believable special effects that put this to shame.

$15,000+? Really now. It shouldn't have taken any more than a few hundred at most to produce the final result of this trailer. Maybe if it were a 90 minute film, but a five minute trailer? Come on!

[DBZfan29]

I think Pafupafu's point is valid. How do we know that, after receiving all of their funds, they didn't get greedy and decide to minimize funding for the project? It's entirely possible. They had the opportunity to pocket a significant amount of cash, and with the way the final product turned out, it seems as though that may very well have been what happened. As has been stated previously in this thread, there really isn't any clear distinction in quality between this and fan projects that were done with little to no funding or personal funds. High School kids with laptops in their bedrooms can quite easily, and often do, create video projects with believable special effects that put this to shame.

$15,000+? Really now. It shouldn't have taken any more than a few hundred at most to produce the final result of this trailer. Maybe if it were a 90 minute film, but a five minute trailer? Come on!

They asked the fans a while back for $10,000 more to reshoot with new costumes for the Saiyans, so it's more like $25,000+.

[Jord]

10,000 is a bit much for a Vegeta reshoot when the rest of the trailer cost 15,000.

[Pafupafu]

I think Pafupafu's point is valid. How do we know that, after receiving all of their funds, they didn't get greedy and decide to minimize funding for the project? It's entirely possible. They had the opportunity to pocket a significant amount of cash, and with the way the final product turned out, it seems as though that may very well have been what happened. As has been stated previously in this thread, there really isn't any clear distinction in quality between this and fan projects that were done with little to no funding or personal funds. High School kids with laptops in their bedrooms can quite easily, and often do, create video projects with believable special effects that put this to shame.

$15,000+? Really now. It shouldn't have taken any more than a few hundred at most to produce the final result of this trailer. Maybe if it were a 90 minute film, but a five minute trailer? Come on!

From my production knowledge and assumptions that K&K did not "pay themselves" creative fees, I would say this video may have cost about $4500-$6000 at maximum with majority of payment going to stage rentals at Pinewood Studios. The effects are laughable and can be easily recreated in Adobe After Effects in a week or two. I'm also assuming that because the Actors are atrociously amateur (see: Nappa/Krillin), they did not belong to any union and were paid low fees of $100-300/day. There's a ton of other minimal expenses but you get my point. This is a scary thought that K&K may have made close to $20,000 on this. We also have to take into consideration, long-term purchases. Say they got this money and decided to BUY a new Canon 5D MKII DSLR (which this was shot on) for roughly $2000. Well, that's profit. They keep that Camera after this project is over instead of paying $200/day to rent one. It's little things like this which I am 99% sure occurred in some capacity during the "budgeting" process. Just disheartening stuff and such senseless fraud.

[Son Geeko]

They asked the fans a while back for $10,000 more to reshoot with new costumes for the Saiyans.

It was $3,500.

[Thanos]

They asked the fans a while back for $10,000 more to reshoot with new costumes for the Saiyans.

It was $3,500.

Erm, let me just point out the fact that it was DBZfan29 that said this, not I.

[Son Geeko]

Erm, let me just point out the fact that it was DBZfan29 that said this, not I.

Editing mistake. Sorry, my bad.

[Pafupafu]

They asked the fans a while back for $10,000 more to reshoot with new costumes for the Saiyans.

It was $3,500.

$7,301 actually. Does it really look like $7,301 worthy armor? :/

http://www.indiegogo.com/DBZSaiyansaga-armor

[Avenged]

Of course not, I've also read that they didn't even pay any of the actors. It was from one of their Twitter updates and they were giving thanks to everyone even though no one got paid. They simply just paid for expenses for everyone.

[Pafupafu]

Of course not, I've also read that they didn't even pay any of the actors. It was from one of their Twitter updates and they were giving thanks to everyone even though no one got paid. They simply just paid for expenses for everyone.

That's a shame. There's nothing in the final product that reflects there wasn't room in the budget to pay the actors.

[KaiserNeko]

Of course not, I've also read that they didn't even pay any of the actors. It was from one of their Twitter updates and they were giving thanks to everyone even though no one got paid. They simply just paid for expenses for everyone.

After watching that, I wouldn't have paid them either!

Oh hohoho! Hooo hohoho!

Ah, but seriously. I agree with Pafupafu on this one. A crappy product is still a crappy product. I'm not going to sugarcoat that.