Unofficial New DB Series Dragonball Absalon Episode 1

[Attitudefan]

Out of anything, my main criticism is that the antagonists are Saiyans. I just hate that. Hate it to no end.

[Doctor.]

You mean like the Z fighters concentrating their love energy to somehow create this mystical joke of a transformation in BoG? And please, don't bring up "well we get to see character development in Goku.." - we get one line of dialogue about how he wishes he obtained this power for himself. It was a ridiculously weak attempt at character development (calling it a character development is a huge stretch). Modern DBZ is a bunch of poorly animated mystical retconning nonsense that's relied on palette swaps to seem fresh and original.

I honestly don't care what you think about modern Dragon Ball. You can think it's shit, fine. I could think it's shit, but it wouldn't influence my opinion on Absalon. Just because it could be better than something official doesn't make it any less crap.

[VintageSaiyan]

You mean like the Z fighters concentrating their love energy to somehow create this mystical joke of a transformation in BoG? And please, don't bring up "well we get to see character development in Goku.." - we get one line of dialogue about how he wishes he obtained this power for himself. It was a ridiculously weak attempt at character development (calling it a character development is a huge stretch). Modern DBZ is a bunch of poorly animated mystical retconning nonsense that's relied on palette swaps to seem fresh and original.

I honestly don't care what you think about modern Dragon Ball. You can think it's shit, fine. I could think it's shit, but it wouldn't influence my opinion on Absalon. Just because it could be better than something official doesn't make it any less crap.

If you're so quick to rip apart something of that nature, I'd love for you to be as adamant when it concerns the official load of shit that Toei is putting out.

[Doctor.]

I am. I think Episode of Bardock is trash. I think Minus is shit. I think F is garbage and I've expressed myself multiple times here saying I think the franchise should have stopped being milked ever since the Z anime ended. I liked BoG and I'm liking Super so far, but that didn't prevent me from criticizing aspects of either like the SSG ritual or Vegeta's rage boost, which are some of the worst concepts in the franchise. I like to think I'm perfectly critical of any new material without being overly biased against or towards it.

I just think Absalon is trash too, it uses tired clichés and tropes, lacks creativity, its setting and tone are nothing akin to Dragon Ball and it doesn't have meaningful or interesting dialogue. I applaud the effort in regards to animation but it's not very good admittedly. It has very little redeeming factors and I could still enjoy it even if I think it's bad, like I do with Multiverse, if not for the off-putting animation and tone.

[fadeddreams5]

...its setting and tone are nothing akin to Dragon Ball and it doesn't have meaningful or interesting dialogue.

To be fair, neither were History of Trunks' or Bardock - Father of Goku, and fans love those. Broly and Hirudegarn are also nothing akin to Dragon Ball, but the former is just as popular as the series villains, and the latter is in the fan favorite Toei movie. >.>

You can have any sort of tone, and it'd still be Dragon Ball as long as the characterizations and setting are faithful to the source material. Incidentally, neither are in Super.

[Doctor.]

They're still placed in the Dragon World and are drawn to look like Dragon Ball, that still matters, they may be darker, but you can still call it Dragon Ball even if the characters weren't there to remind you of it. Absalon's world constantly makes reference to real-life places and looks like Naruto animation rather than Dragon Ball.

Saying the characterization and setting in Super aren't faithful is obviously extremely incorrect. I think people are complaining too much about this aspect when the only severe cases of one character being defined by one trait I've noticed are with Chi-Chi and Roshi.

[fadeddreams5]

They're still placed in the Dragon World and are drawn to look like Dragon Ball, that still matters, they may be darker, but you can still call it Dragon Ball even if the characters weren't there to remind you of it. Absalon's world constantly makes reference to real-life places and looks like Naruto animation rather than Dragon Ball.

Saying the characterization and setting in Super aren't faithful is obviously extremely incorrect. I think people are complaining too much about this aspect when the only severe cases of one character being defined by one trait I've noticed are with Chi-Chi and Roshi.

I meant in regards to time setting, but I suppose I should wait a bit before saying anything.

Videl = Completely OOC

Buu = OOC; defined by one trait (excessive hunger)

Roshi and Chi Chi = Defined by one trait.

Yamcha = Possibly OOC, given the fact that he's part of Tien's crew for some reason, with no explanation. I think Tien even mentioned he told him to stay behind in F. wtf.

Gohan = Possibly OOC, given that he feels more like his EoZ self, yet only 6 months have passed. Both him and Videl are high school students, no? I mean, the Buu saga only lasted like 48-72 hours...

Goku feels more like Kid Goku to me, but I'm sure the dub will fix that. Though he has been a bit off in the dub too, lately, saying certain phrases he never used to (e.g. "hang over," "sure as hell," etc)

Vegeta... there's something off that I can't put my finger on. Maybe the cold shoulder he gives Bulma and Trunks. I remember GT's scene with him and Bulma as she explains to him the purpose of her blutz wave machine, and I just prefer that so much more. He was far more mature and wise, whereas Super and the new movies have him being a grump 24/7, only he's not evil anymore, so it feels forced.

[Attitudefan]

I think that is a problem for characters like Vegeta and Gohan. If this takes place soon after the Buu arc, you're kinda writing yoursefl into a corner in terms of characters. As you stated, it has only been a few days that whole arc took (but it is one of the longest arcs). Because of that, the feel of it is longer despite, in-universe, it has only been a short while. Thus, the original time skip Toriyama did in the manga helps fix that initial problem because he can explain the character growth happened off-screen. However, because Super isn't skipped too far ahead, the characters can't change too much, but they still changed. Honestly, I'd prefer if they left that time skip alone. It doesn't need to be explored. They should have wrote the time frame, if they still don't want Uub, write it just before the tournament takes place (though, there's plot holes in doing that, such as Bulma's remark for not seeing Goku in forever). However, it fixes the momentum for Vegeta's character; it also corrects Gohan's new attitude, which is that of an adult.

I understand why they want to have it the way they do. It is to market to children, and they need child characters to do that (so they think, but I completely disagree with that philosophy. It's like saying it is necessary to put in certain races in stories to make certain demographics watch. I think that kind of philosophy is outdated nonsense).

On the topic of Goku acting weird. Yes, I think since GT, people at Toei, the fans, and everyone else involved in Dragonball in some way don't understand Goku anymore. He's not as naive as he was as a child. He is too trusting, but he is overall a good guy if we look at him when he was first 18 years old to when he was 23 or 24. He was actually really observant and figured things out much more quickly than plenty of the others, and acted like an adult for the most part. He had his moments, but it was usually just for gags. Saiyan arc Goku is the most mature incarnation of adult Goku (but he still has his faults, like letting Vegeta go for selfish reasons). That selfishness starts to manifest greatly afterwards. He goes to Namek, in his mind, not to save his friends, but to fight Vegeta again! He lets the Ginyu's go because they are too weak for him, and he doesn't really want to hurt the defenseless. However, after his injury, Goku starts to become different. He is all of a sudden Vegeta's buddy (that is so weird how he gives him a proper burial... I feel it is a bit out of character for him to do so to his enemy. I guess he respects his strength? I'm thinking more so on the fact that he kept Krillin and Gohan alive, somewhat by circumstance.
Anyways, Goku fights Freeza, not to stop him from terrorizing the universe, but because he is strong. Goku fights Nappa and Vegeta to save the Earth, ending with a selfish desire to let Vegeta go; Goku let's Freeza go, initially, because he becomes bored with fighting him. Goku starts to become less like Goku at this point and more like Vegeta in some ways.
The Cell arc is full of Goku being selfish when he could defeat Gero before it starts, but doesn't care if people die in the future. Goku can teleport anywhere, and could have prevented Cell from discovering 18, but does nothing about it (I LOVE HOW TFS makes Goku out to be a selfish idiot; they toy with that very same idea, yet Goku doesn't do anything to stop Cell). Goku only wants to see how powerful Cell gets. He wants to fight him and wants Gohan to surpass them both.
Now, the difference here is that Goku from the Saiyan arc didn't want the Saiyans to go full power and transform, and knew it was a bad idea when it happened. He wasn't around for Freeza to transform but lets him power up and throw a beam into the core of the planet. Goku becomes even more selfish by letting the Gero and his Cyborgs/Robots/Androids/Cell to wreak havoc and does nothing about in the moments he could stop it.

Buu arc Goku is the most selfish. He could have destroyed Buu and doesn't. He offers naughty pictures of an older Bulma to a God so Goku can get his way. By this moment, Goku doesn't have a pure heart. He does things, and knows that they are not nice gestures. I feel Saiyan arc Goku is a different person to later incarnations of Goku in the other arcs. When everything is on the line in the Saiyan arc, Goku is willing to do anything to stop havoc, learning from how he handled Piccolo.

Yes, Goku does things that are questionable, but that makes him more realistic. However, the older he gets, the less he does out of naivety, and more so to do with "because he can and who will stop Goku?".

So, I feel because of this development, Toei et al. are forced to push the reset button on Goku in many instances. However, it feels like he becomes a parody of himself, because Goku isn't ignorant to situations like getting drunk, or the fact that perverts exist. He knows that stuff now, and to keep Goku as Goku, they have to make him childlike despite Goku losing those traits in the 23rd Tournament and the Saiyan arc.

[Doctor.]

Videl = Completely OOC

Gohan = Possibly OOC, given that he feels more like his EoZ self, yet only 6 months have passed. Both him and Videl are high school students, no? I mean, the Buu saga only lasted like 48-72 hours...

I think until we know of a clear time-frame for Super that this is too soon to say. If it's 6 months after Boo, you have a point. If it's 4 years, then she simply grew up.

Gohan's not out of character at all. His EoZ self didn't get enough screentime in order to properly establish a personality that was different from his Boo arc self, this just seems like nitpicking to me.

Buu = OOC; defined by one trait (excessive hunger)

He has not been out of character. He's naive, he's selfish towards anyone except Satan and he's ignorant, that's what he had always been.

Yamcha = Possibly OOC, given the fact that he's part of Tenshinhan's crew for some reason, with no explanation. I think Tenshinhan even mentioned he told him to stay behind in F. wtf.

We see him in Super flying around with Puar, so I don't see how he's a part of Tenshinhan's crew.

I don't see how him staying behind is OOC either.

Goku feels more like Kid Goku to me, but I'm sure the dub will fix that. Though he has been a bit off in the dub too, lately, saying certain phrases he never used to (e.g. "hang over," "sure as hell," etc)

Goku feels exactly the same as always. You shouldn't be talking too much about his portrayal since you've said you haven't read the manga.

His portrayal in Super so far has been perfect, what upsets me is how he's going to be portrayed in F.

Vegeta... there's something off that I can't put my finger on. Maybe the cold shoulder he gives Bulma and Trunks. I remember GT's scene with him and Bulma as she explains to him the purpose of her blutz wave machine, and I just prefer that so much more. He was far more mature and wise, whereas Super and the new movies have him being a grump 24/7, only he's not evil anymore, so it feels forced.

I think you're just nitpickng, GT is irrelevant to Super, it's 15 years after Boo after all.

He wasn't grumpy in BoG, for instance. He was grumpy in F, but everything about that movie was terrible.

On the topic of Goku acting weird. Yes, I think since GT, people at Toei, the fans, and everyone else involved in Dragonball in some way don't understand Goku anymore. He's not as naive as he was as a child. He is too trusting, but he is overall a good guy if we look at him when he was first 18 years old to when he was 23 or 24. He was actually really observant and figured things out much more quickly than plenty of the others, and acted like an adult for the most part. He had his moments, but it was usually just for gags. Saiyan arc Goku is the most mature incarnation of adult Goku (but he still has his faults, like letting Vegeta go for selfish reasons). That selfishness starts to manifest greatly afterwards. He goes to Namek, in his mind, not to save his friends, but to fight Vegeta again! He lets the Ginyu's go because they are too weak for him, and he doesn't really want to hurt the defenseless. However, after his injury, Goku starts to become different. He is all of a sudden Vegeta's buddy (that is so weird how he gives him a proper burial... I feel it is a bit out of character for him to do so to his enemy. I guess he respects his strength? I'm thinking more so on the fact that he kept Krillin and Gohan alive, somewhat by circumstance.
Anyways, Goku fights Freeza, not to stop him from terrorizing the universe, but because he is strong. Goku fights Nappa and Vegeta to save the Earth, ending with a selfish desire to let Vegeta go; Goku let's Freeza go, initially, because he becomes bored with fighting him. Goku starts to become less like Goku at this point and more like Vegeta in some ways.
The Cell arc is full of Goku being selfish when he could defeat Gero before it starts, but doesn't care if people die in the future. Goku can teleport anywhere, and could have prevented Cell from discovering 18, but does nothing about it (I LOVE HOW TFS makes Goku out to be a selfish idiot; they toy with that very same idea, yet Goku doesn't do anything to stop Cell). Goku only wants to see how powerful Cell gets. He wants to fight him and wants Gohan to surpass them both.
Now, the difference here is that Goku from the Saiyan arc didn't want the Saiyans to go full power and transform, and knew it was a bad idea when it happened. He wasn't around for Freeza to transform but lets him power up and throw a beam into the core of the planet. Goku becomes even more selfish by letting the Gero and his Cyborgs/Robots/Androids/Cell to wreak havoc and does nothing about in the moments he could stop it.

Buu arc Goku is the most selfish. He could have destroyed Buu and doesn't. He offers naughty pictures of an older Bulma to a God so Goku can get his way. By this moment, Goku doesn't have a pure heart. He does things, and knows that they are not nice gestures. I feel Saiyan arc Goku is a different person to later incarnations of Goku in the other arcs. When everything is on the line in the Saiyan arc, Goku is willing to do anything to stop havoc, learning from how he handled Piccolo.

I have a completely different interpretation of the character. I think he has gotten more and more heroic and mature as time went on, with his Cell and Boo arc incarnations being the most selfless and modern hero-like portrayals of his character yet.

[fadeddreams5]

Gohan's not out of character at all. His EoZ self didn't get enough screentime in order to properly establish a personality that was different from his Boo arc self, this just seems like nitpicking to me.

He shows traits that more closely resemble his EoZ self (e.g. book fetish), and looks like a dork. What happened to the Great Saiyaman and Saiyawoman? His fights against crime in Satan City? His quirky and goofy side in the face of other students? All I'm seeing is a bland, insipid nerd that has nothing on his kid version. That said, I wrote "possibly OOC" cause I could be completely wrong. I mean, he did turn into Great Saiyaman and act in-character in BoG, even if he was reduced to fodder. If he drinks like he does in BoG, we'll have ourselves a drunk minor, btw.

He has not been out of character. He's naive, he's selfish towards anyone except Satan and he's ignorant, that's what he had always been.

Buu is completely out of character. He isn't evil anymore, and was never shown being so controlling towards Mr. Satan after he befriended him. Ever. I think Celebrations with Majin Buu had a perfect portrayal of the character. He gets angry when the dude takes away his ice cream, but instantly remembers Mr. Satan's admonishment, and calms down, cheerfully walking off and pondering how to get the money to pay for it. I don't know if this is "canon," but even in any "canon" material, he was never shown to be like he is in Super. Not in GT either. Mr. Satan is scared of him in Super! They're supposed to be best friends...

We see him in Super flying around with Puar, so I don't see how he's a part of Tenshinhan's crew.

I don't see how him staying behind is OOC either.

Tien told him to stay behind, as though he's Chiaotzu. I found that weird. But that was F. We shall see.

Goku feels exactly the same as always. You shouldn't be talking too much about his portrayal since you've said you haven't read the manga.

His portrayal in Super so far has been perfect, what upsets me is how he's going to be portrayed in F.

Pfft...

Ally to good; nightmare to haters.

I think you're just nitpickng, GT is irrelevant to Super, it's 15 years after Boo after all.

He wasn't grumpy in BoG, for instance. He was grumpy in F, but everything about that movie was terrible.

I'm referring to Super in all of this. He's grumpy all the time. Look at how he acted in that family trip. Everything about him feels forced so far.

BoG was fine. The bingo scene will forever scar Vegeta fans, but I forgive it due to the dialogue Goku had with Beerus about it. F's portrayal of him was absolutely terrible.

[VintageSaiyan]

The reason why the characters in Super seem to be OOC is because they're literally just walking caricatures. Same old tropes except terribly written.
"I'm buu and I'm hungry and childish blahh."
"I'm Vegeta and always angry and Goku is my eternal rival blahhh."
"I'm goten and trunks and we're comic relief blahh."
"I'm Gohan and I'm polite and wear glasses lol"
"I'm goku and I'm an idiot watch me try to drive a radish truck lol!!"

The characters in Absalon actually feel like the characters we know, except grown up. Like I said, the Adult Gohan we got in Absalon is the best Adult Gohan I've seen in terms of character development.

[Doctor.]

He shows traits that more closely resemble his EoZ self (e.g. book fetish), and looks like a dork. What happened to the Great Saiyaman and Saiyawoman? His fights against crime in Satan City? His quirky and goofy side in the face of other students? All I'm seeing is a bland, insipid nerd that has nothing on his kid version. That said, I wrote "possibly OOC" cause I could be completely wrong. I mean, he did turn into Great Saiyaman and act in-character in BoG, even if he was reduced to fodder. If he drinks like he does in BoG, we'll have ourselves a drunk minor, btw.

He doesn't really have a book fetish yet, he bought a book to study, presumably he's using it to help his education, not reading it for fun like his EoZ self. That's still in-line with his Boo arc self.

He's 18 :p

Buu is completely out of character. He isn't evil anymore, and was never shown being so controlling towards Mr. Satan after he befriended him. Ever. I think Celebrations with Majin Buu had a perfect portrayal of the character. He gets angry when the dude takes away his ice cream, but instantly remembers Mr. Satan's admonishment, and calms down, cheerfully walking off and pondering how to get the money to pay for it. I don't know if this is "canon," but even in any "canon" material, he was never shown to be like he is in Super. Not in GT either. Mr. Satan is scared of him in Super! They're supposed to be best friends...

We've never seen a non-evil Boo, we don't know how he's supposed to act. All he did that was "controlling" was ask for food, something he did back in the manga too, Satan made him dinner all the time. Satan is actually taking it in a much more chilled fashion (see how he took Boo away from Bulma) than in the manga, where he'd constantly get worried. He hasn't gotten worried of Boo actually killing him, he got worried of his cover being blown and that's it. They are friends and Satan standing up to Boo in front of a bunch of people proves it.

I don't remember that scene in the manga, either.

Tenshinhan told him to stay behind, as though he's Chiaotzu. I found that weird. But that was F. We shall see.

Well yea, Yamcha would be useless lol, and I'm pretty sure he acknowledges that himself.

Either way, I think it's probable he'll fight in the F arc.

I'm referring to Super in all of this. He's grumpy all the time. Look at how he acted in that family trip. Everything about him feels forced so far.

He's been showing indifference and anger, that's what Vegeta has always shown and what he should show. What, you're expecting him to suddenly enjoy everything and act all cheerfully and happily? lol.

The characters in Absalon actually feel like the characters we know, except grown up. Like I said, the Adult Gohan we got in Absalon is the best Adult Gohan I've seen in terms of character development.

No they don't. Since when does the Dragon Team actively search out fights and initiate them? Except for Gohan, every member started their fight with the villain, not the other way around. Gohan has had a surprisingly good portrayal so far, but the same cannot be said for the rest of the characters, why do Goten and Trunks train now? Why does Vegeta leave the Earth unprotected for such a huge period of time? Why does Dende look like a warrior Namek? Why is Future Trunks evil? Why did Kuririn start training again, apparently?

[fadeddreams5]

He's 18 :p

The legal drinking age in Japan is 20. This is setting a bad example to Japanese kids. I may go over there and protest.

We've never seen a non-evil Boo, we don't know how he's supposed to act. All he did that was "controlling" was ask for food, something he did back in the manga too, Satan made him dinner all the time. Satan is actually taking it in a much more chilled fashion (see how he took Boo away from Bulma) than in the manga, where he'd constantly get worried. He hasn't gotten worried of Boo actually killing him, he got worried of his cover being blown and that's it. They are friends and Satan standing up to Boo in front of a bunch of people proves it.

Was Buu shown at all in EoZ in the manga? Regardless, his portrayal was much, much better in the filler and--I can't believe I'm saying this--GT. That is a Buu I want to see, not this spoiled jerk.

He's been showing indifference and anger, that's what Vegeta has always shown and what he should show. What, you're expecting him to suddenly enjoy everything and act all cheerfully and happily? lol.

No. Be slightly more open to his family, maybe.

My issue goes hand in hand with what VintageSaiyan wrote:
The reason why the characters in Super seem to be OOC is because they're literally just walking caricatures. Same old tropes except terribly written.
"I'm Vegeta and always angry and Goku is my eternal rival blahhh."

I didn't write that Vegeta is OOC. I just don't like how he's being portrayed (Super and F) compared to something like GT. Vegeta didn't get the stick out of his ass until the very end of DBZ. I just expected him to reevaluate himself, grow, wise up a little, and be less of a grouch. Not entirely, but I don't like that they're overplaying traits that are familiar to fans simply because they are and may provide comedy.

I don't see much character development occurring in this series. Hopefully I'm wrong. Just three episodes in.

[Doctor.]

Was Buu shown at all in EoZ in the manga? Regardless, his portrayal was much, much better in the filler and--I can't believe I'm saying this--GT. That is a Buu I want to see, not this spoiled jerk.

Yes, once. Coincidentally, Boo was eating some sweets Satan gave him and, in exchange, he'd have to throw the match again lol.

I think the filler portrays Boo in a better light too, sure, but that doesn't technically make Super's portrayal of Boo wrong. It's just not we want. He may develop in the future to a more selfless and less douchey version of himself, but we don't know.

I don't see much character development occurring in this series. Hopefully I'm wrong. Just three episodes in.

I don't see much character development occurring in the original, either. Every time there's a chance for that, the characters ignore it or it actually seems like they have developed but in the next arc they revert back. This is a very, very formulaic series, and that's why it keeps getting worse and worse. Super is not doing anything different than what its predecessor did. It picks a character, takes one aspect of his personality and makes it very prominent during one arc, and in the end of it, the character gets over it.

This a series with great potential for character development, not a series that makes good use of it.

[Attitudefan]

I have a completely different interpretation of the character. I think he has gotten more and more heroic and mature as time went on, with his Cell and Boo arc incarnations being the most selfless and modern hero-like portrayals of his character yet.

You actually might be right about that. It's been awhile since I have seen the Cell and Buu arc in full. But my main point in that long winded post, is that there was character development. So, it seems in the new material any of that is thrown out the window.

[Dbzfan94]

Why is Future Trunks evil??

Wait, what? The creator of Abasalon made Trunks evil? That right there is worse than all the problems with F imho

[fadeddreams5]

Why is Future Trunks evil??

Wait, what? The creator of Abasalon made Trunks evil? That right there is worse than all the problems with F imho

To be fair, that boy looked like he could crack at any moment.

[Hellspawn28]

Absalon feels like it was made for the DB fans who like all flash and no substance. The ones who hate it when Dragon Ball has any real type of story or depth to it.

[Malik_DBNA]

Absalon feels like it was made for the DB fans who like all flash and no substance. The ones who hate it when Dragon Ball has any real type of story or depth to it.

I.e. Broly fans

[Lord Beerus]

Absalon feels like it was made for the DB fans who like all flash and no substance. The ones who hate it when Dragon Ball has any real type of story or depth to it.

Yep. That's pretty much how I see it. It's the exact reason why Future Trunks became evil. In the eye of some Dragon Ball fans: Evil/Brooding characters = Badass characters. And that's all that matters. Being a badass.