Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

[Fable]

*snip*

It's almost frightening how accurate this is.

^This.^ If you're going to try to pull a redemption thing, have her actually do something to redeem herself. For Vader, it was killing the Emperor to save his son, at the cost of his own life. For Vegeta, it was sacrificing himself to destroy Buu. He failed, but he tried, and he came back later to help finish the job. For Bra, her only redemption is feeling sorry. And everyone except Vegito just forgives her? No! Bad Salagir! Bad!

Even then, it all depends on the execution of that redemption. There has to be at least some previously established conflict in that character that would warrant a redemption. Otherwise, you wind up with what Kishimoto did with Obito. Tobi manipulated Nagato and was responsible for the formation of the Akatsuki. He unleashed the Nine Tails on the village and indirectly killed a good amount of villagers and even his own teacher—the Fourth Hokage—and his wife as a result; and because of that assault, the Nine Tails was sealed in Naruto which caused him to be ostracized by the villagers. Tobi aided Itachi in slaughtering his own kinsmen. He would go on ruining and taking the lives of numerous of other people for a good while all without remorse. There wasn't a shred of sympathy to be shown in him and we as the readers had no reason to believe he would ever be redeemed. It wasn't until Kishimoto revealed Tobi was Obito that redemption was even a dreaded possibility and it was only because he was once Kakashi's friend, which meant inevitable "Talk-no-jutsu." And yet...Kakashi wouldn't even be the one who would talk sense into him, that would be Naruto. All of Obito's atrocities would be undone and forgiven. In fact, according to Naruto himself, Obito was "the coolest guy." This redemption was unbelievably unrealistic and forced. There was nothing in Tobi that even so much as hinted at a chance of redemption. He was detached from reality and what he had done had no baring on his conscience whatsoever. He wasn't concerned with his past life nor his former comrades.

In Bra's rampage, there was nothing in her actions that suggested any kind of reluctance. In fact, she was merciless. Gohan himself said in his dying breaths, "I thought you would hesitate a bit more." How did Bra respond? By scoffing and continuing on with her slaughter with a smile on her face. Not an ounce of conflict. It was all sport to her and now Salagir expects us to believe Bra when she says she didn't willingly give herself in to Babidi.

Remember Naurb and how he demonstrated a clear sign of self awareness even while he was being controlled?

[Fable]

Cringe.

[FoolsGil]

...And so (because you can blame or bless anything Vegetto does on the negative or positive aspects of Goku, Vegeta, or both) Vegetto is going to lose his shit because he was talked down to right after the fucking massacre Bra took a part in, and he will become the villain Bardock predicted.

[ZeroNeonix]

I'm done. I'm losing brain cells reading this.

[EGonzo]

Is this one of those joke chapters they sometimes post? Because it's terrible even by this comic's standards

[Slangh]

So Gotenks just agrees it's Vegetto's fault, because Goten and Trunks secretly feared him. And U16 Bra now wants to be stronger than U18Bra, who is basically like Jesus. She has repented! She may not be killed, for she knows she has evil tendencies and shit.

[Saiga]

...sorry, what past acts does Vegetto even have to regret? He's not the one who just went on a killing spree.

[Jackalope89]

...sorry, what past acts does Vegetto even have to regret? He's not the one who just went on a killing spree.

When he was Vegeta and let himself be taken over by Babidi, he annihilated thousands of people at the World Martial Arts tournament. All so he could fight Goku.

Anyway, the only times I've come across this brand of awful writing, is when the fanfic writer becomes so enamored with one of their characters that any development is often done at the expense of others. Often with the other characters being at fault, and the writer's darling (Bra, in this case) should be forgiven for any and all wrongs.

And a good number of those stories have summaries like, "so and so, after the events of this one thing, has had enough and gets treated like the bestest!"

[miguelnuva1]

Imagine Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith. Anakin massacres all the children, and all the Jedi. Obi-Wan insists Anakin would not fall to the Dark Side, until he sees the recording. He finds Anakin, beats him, and is about to end it... Then Yoda shuts off his lightsaber, and lifts him into the air.

"More faith in your apprentice, you should have, Obi-Wan. Seduced by Palpatine, and the Dark Side of the Force, he was. Murder him, you should not".

Padme comes in after being force-choked, and says this:

"Don't you see? Anakin is sorry! He's calm now. He has complete control over himself!"

Mace Windu then comes in, bandaged head-to-toe, and tells Obi-Wan this:

You have failed him as a father, and as a master. You KNOW he's had self-control problems ever since he was a child, yet have been impatient and frustrated. You have not given him the praise he needs, nor have you relied on others as you should have...

...And on it goes. That's what these pages are like ...

See the huge problem with this example, Obi-Wan saw Anakin do all this and he still thought there was good in him until "You are lost."

Obi-Wan also raised Anakin as best he could where it seems to be the opposite with Vegetto. Obi-Wan is also crying when he thinks Anakin is dying. Vegetto can kill his own child with no remorse.

[miguelnuva1]

...sorry, what past acts does Vegetto even have to regret? He's not the one who just went on a killing spree.

Vegetto threatened Pan because Gohan wouldn't fight him and he sucked as Bra's Dad. Who knows what else Salagir will put on him.

[Saiga]

...sorry, what past acts does Vegetto even have to regret? He's not the one who just went on a killing spree.

When he was Vegeta and let himself be taken over by Babidi, he annihilated thousands of people at the World Martial Arts tournament. All so he could fight Goku.

But it was previously established that Vegetto isn't Vegeta, that doesn't make sense at all.

As for threatening Gohan... Is that in the novelisation? Because I haven't seen anything in the main story that shows anything he should feel remorse for.

[Thani]

Yyyyyeeeeeeaaaaaaah.

The page itself is not bad per se. But the timing was horrible. I mean, this is DEFINITELY a page that should be put on the manga, coupled with the previous one, even if tweaked a little bit. But there, now? Too soon. Too fast.

Those things coupled together, urgh, worst two pages I've read in this manga. Would have been great if we were shown more things beforehand, like Bra making a consistent attempt to repent for her actions until she concretizes the realization that she should really aspire to be like her counterpart. Shown U18 Bra interacting more with others to cement her personality. Have U16 Bra interact with the people she hurt (and killed), with varying results. Have an earnest talk with her Gohan and Pan. Her "depression" and "despair" over what happened SHOULD stay for a while - it needs to, otherwise her getting over it would feel horribly forced. She was shook to her core with that shit, it doesn't just goes away out of a sudden, even less enough for her to give an entire heroic speech to her dad - who, mind you, she was completely fine with being killed by because of her funk and because she more or less agreed with him on that decision.

Jesus Christ, Salagir.

[Fionordequester]

Vegetto threatened Pan because Gohan wouldn't fight him and he sucked as Bra's Dad. Who knows what else Salagir will put on him.

He thought of doing that, then promptly nipped it in the bud—as adults do.

See the huge problem with this example, Obi-Wan saw Anakin do all this and he still thought there was good in him until "You are lost."

Obi-Wan also raised Anakin as best he could where it seems to be the opposite with Vegetto. Obi-Wan is also crying when he thinks Anakin is dying. Vegetto can kill his own child with no remorse.

Vegetto believed in his daughter:





Vegetto was proud of Bra:


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Vegetto was gentle with Bra, and cut her slack:









Vegetto put Bra back in her own body, despite Cold's body being more easily controlled:





Bra shows constant disrespect, and Vegetto puts up with it:

[miguelnuva1]

Vegetto threatened Pan because Gohan wouldn't fight him and he sucked as Bra's Dad. Who knows what else Salagir will put on him.

He thought of doing that, then promptly nipped it in the bud—as adults do.

See the huge problem with this example, Obi-Wan saw Anakin do all this and he still thought there was good in him until "You are lost."

Obi-Wan also raised Anakin as best he could where it seems to be the opposite with Vegetto. Obi-Wan is also crying when he thinks Anakin is dying. Vegetto can kill his own child with no remorse.

Vegetto believed in his daughter:





Vegetto was proud of Bra:


Click here for the full 960x875 image


Click here for the full 577x960 image

Vegetto was gentle with Bra, and cut her slack:









Vegetto rescued his daughter from Ginyu, despite Ginyu being more stable:





Bra shows constant disrespect, and Vegetto puts up with it:

And then Salagir added in all the bad times he quit on her while she was growing up.

Obi-Wan never have up on Anakin till he saw Vader with him own eyes, Vegetto quits the first time parenting gets hard.

Even a bad patent can get along when their kid is doing what they want.

[Koitsukai]

Babidi should've controlled Vegito who apparently was more evil than ever and has so many cracks in his personality. We would've gotten a better showdown as well.

[Fionordequester]

And then Salagir added in all the bad times he quit on her while she was growing up.

Yes. Because now he's trying to make us turn on Vegetto. He wants us to like Bra, and this is the only trick he's got left.

Obi-Wan never have up on Anakin till he saw Vader with him own eyes, Vegetto quits the first time parenting gets hard.

He didn't quit—not permanently. He needed a break, then came back once Gohan worked with Bra a little bit.

I'm not saying Vegetto's perfect; I'm saying that, till now, he was still a better father than many folks get. He doesn't deserve the shaming he's getting now.

[miguelnuva1]

And then Salagir added in all the bad times he quit on her while she was growing up.

Yes. Because now he's trying to make us turn on Vegetto. He wants us to like Bra, and this is the only trick he's got left.

Obi-Wan never have up on Anakin till he saw Vader with him own eyes, Vegetto quits the first time parenting gets hard.

He didn't quit—not permanently. He needed a break, then came back once Gohan worked with Bra a little bit.

I'm not saying Vegetto's perfect; I'm saying that, till now, he was still a better father than many folks get. He doesn't deserve the shaming he's getting now.

Vegetto quit on her when the Rosati, Gohan stayed till the end. Vegetto then knocks her out when she kills Goten and tells her he'll kill her one day.

Bra does some seriously messed up stuff and she's a horrible person but at the same time she is a kid. A parent can not get upset when their kid throws a tantrum as they are the adult.

Bra should should have been punished and talked down to for what happen with Goten but at the same time Vegetto never tells her why what she is doing is wrong he only tells her she's an out of control monster.

Bra despite the horrible writing has good parallels with CG Gohan and U16 Pan. Vegetto sees Bra and Pan as potential buddies or rivals. The difference between Bra and Pan is Pan has a Dad that knows how to be a Dad.

Vegetto looks like a big buddy to Bra that gets fed up when she steps out of line.

Salagir failed in getting Bra over as a character and now he's trying to ruin Vegetto to prop Bra and thus destroyed his previous character development and made them both hateable.

Bra is borderline Rey at this point.

[ZeroNeonix]

And then Salagir added in all the bad times he quit on her while she was growing up.

Obi-Wan never have up on Anakin till he saw Vader with him own eyes, Vegetto quits the first time parenting gets hard.

Even a bad patent can get along when their kid is doing what they want.

Seeing your daughter destroy an entire solar system isn't "parenting getting hard." It's being a witness to mass genocide. He correctly identified her then as a threat to the universe. Even then, the worst he did to her was make her find her own way back home. The comic is trying to paint Vegito as the bad guy, but it makes no sense. And the way everyone just forgives Bra immediately with no repercussions makes even less sense. I understand these characters as bystanders wanting to stop the violence, but all the other shit surrounding this scene? Absolute garbage. You'd think having a story planned out in advance for this long, it would have better build up, better justifications for the motivations of its characters. Yet despite this story running at a snail's pace, it still somehow managed to rush past all the important stuff.

[miguelnuva1]

And then Salagir added in all the bad times he quit on her while she was growing up.

Obi-Wan never have up on Anakin till he saw Vader with him own eyes, Vegetto quits the first time parenting gets hard.

Even a bad patent can get along when their kid is doing what they want.

Seeing your daughter destroy an entire solar system isn't "parenting getting hard." It's being a witness to mass genocide. He correctly identified her then as a threat to the universe. Even then, the worst he did to her was make her find her own way back home. The comic is trying to paint Vegito as the bad guy, but it makes no sense. And the way everyone just forgives Bra immediately with no repercussions makes even less sense. I understand these characters as bystanders wanting to stop the violence, but all the other shit surrounding this scene? Absolute garbage. You'd think having a story planned out in advance for this long, it would have better build up, better justifications for the motivations of its characters. Yet despite this story running at a snail's pace, it still somehow managed to rush past all the important stuff.

You broke apart my quote and then commented on a separate incident.

He threw a hissy first in the Rosat that Gohan had to clean up. That incident alone is telling Bra its ok to get mad and overreact when things don't go your way.

Vegetto helped create a monster and now that it is a monster he wants to kill it.

Vegetto is basically the humans in God movies. The last quote in Godzilla vs Biollante actually fits the way Salagir has him written right now.

[TheGodfather93]

DBM is reading more and more like a parody, and Salagir isn't anywhere near competent enough of a writer for me to consider falling for this preachy shit. Man's a bigger fraud than Frank Lampard. It's sad to say that, because he genuinely had a good thing going with DBM. It wasn't anything exceptional, but it was a fun little fan comic that showed stuff people have wanted to see for years, and it gave us new Dragon Ball content at a time when all we had was Dragonball Evolution and a bunch of shallow fighting games. Then it feels like he got carried away with its popularity and became way too full of himself. I also wouldn't be surprised if DBS' emergence and subsequent popularity made him bitter and envious, and more dismissive of constructive criticism.