Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Any general discussion regarding fan-created works of the Dragon Ball franchise, including AMVs, fan-art, fan-fiction, etc.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by dbgtFO » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:46 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:That's a problem with Dragon Ball as a whole. It relies overmuch on the peanut gallery telling us what happened, instead of trusting the audience to understand what they just saw. It just kills pacing.
That reminds me of something I thought of yesterday. I don't really like the peanut gallery commenting on fights they supposedly can't keep up with and with the advent of Beerus and Whis, those two could take the role of exposition squad.
That's why I found their manga-only exposition to explain why SSG Goku was winning against Hit, while SSB Vegeta couldn't, fitting, if a little jarring.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by TonyTheTiger » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:49 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:That's a problem with Dragon Ball as a whole. It relies overmuch on the peanut gallery telling us what happened, instead of trusting the audience to understand what they just saw. It just kills pacing.
Absolutely. By no means do I mean to imply that this is a failure specifically attributed to Salagir. In fact, doing it the way he did is probably more authentic to the Dragon Ball style.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:50 pm

TonyTheTiger wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:That's a problem with Dragon Ball as a whole. It relies overmuch on the peanut gallery telling us what happened, instead of trusting the audience to understand what they just saw. It just kills pacing.
Absolutely. By no means do I mean to imply that this is a failure specifically attributed to Salagir. In fact, doing it the way he did is probably more authentic to the Dragon Ball style.
Oh, don't worry. I actually think it's even worse with Salagir, given that abysmally stupid release schedule. That just compounds any pacing problem.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by ekrolo2 » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:51 pm

I'll take DBs method over Naruto's "we're gonna spend 50 chapters explaining shit you already know like why a person sneezes!* where the pacing of battle just drops dead constnatly.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by nite_jay » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:56 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:That's a problem with Dragon Ball as a whole. It relies overmuch on the peanut gallery telling us what happened, instead of trusting the audience to understand what they just saw. It just kills pacing.
It also makes fans overanalyze and start reading too far into simple things that don't have to be explained.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:59 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:I'll take DBs method over Naruto's "we're gonna spend 50 chapters explaining shit you already know like why a person sneezes!* where the pacing of battle just drops dead constnatly.
I don't read Naruto, so no comment. Still, "another story does stuff poorly too" does not excuse poor storytelling.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by ekrolo2 » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:02 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:I'll take DBs method over Naruto's "we're gonna spend 50 chapters explaining shit you already know like why a person sneezes!* where the pacing of battle just drops dead constnatly.
I don't read Naruto, so no comment. Still, "another story does stuff poorly too" does not excuse poor storytelling.
Oh I don't disagree, but if I have to pick one poison over the other, give me Salagir over Kishimoto :P
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by ryou766 » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:59 pm

When it came to Kishimoto, he was horrible at pacing. Having unfortunately read Naruto till Gaiden, I know what you mean. He would often use flashbacks that we've already seen for a whole chapter without it having any relevance or significance at all (when Obito was first revealed as Tobi).

So, DBM has slow pacing, but no where near Naruto's level.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by rereboy » Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:54 pm

TonyTheTiger wrote:It might take more panels but not a whole lot of pages.
Cramming a page with panels is also not a good idea. They have consistently been doing about 3 to 5 panels per page and for the size of the page it has worked nicely. With more panels, the art would be smaller or more crammed unless they changed the size of the pages.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by TonyTheTiger » Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:08 pm

I can show you examples of comics that fill a standard size page with 7 or 8 panels and don't feel remotely cramped. Judicious use of inset panels would help in this regard (in fact, inset panels would have been perfect for this scene to focus on Bra's tactics without interrupting the action of the volleyball game). Whether DBM's style has "worked nicely" is not at issue here. The point is that Salagir wasn't hamstrung or forced to do it the way he did. Maybe he needed to do it to match how Toriyama would do it, but, again, that's not really the issue nor am I debating that. Point is it is absolutely possible to show slow progress over time in a short number of pages and not require a character narrate what's happening.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by BlazingBarrrager » Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:33 pm

Honestly at this point I'm just cheering against Cold. Smug bastard makes a joke out of his kids.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by ryou766 » Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:03 pm

BlazingBarrrager wrote:Honestly at this point I'm just cheering against Cold. Smug bastard makes a joke out of his kids.
I'm honestly just enjoying the panel artwork, since I don't care for both Bra and Cold.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by BlazingBarrrager » Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:02 am

ryou766 wrote:
BlazingBarrrager wrote:Honestly at this point I'm just cheering against Cold. Smug bastard makes a joke out of his kids.
I'm honestly just enjoying the panel artwork, since I don't care for both Bra and Cold.
That too.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Saiga » Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:15 am

TonyTheTiger wrote:Sure there is. Focus alternating panels on her hands in between wide shots. Shade her blasts differently and depict an increasing number of her shots in the wide angles. 2-3 pages tops. In fact, doing that would have been better to demonstrate what she's doing anyway. Having other characters narrate her strategy violates show don't tell. If not for Uub we'd have no idea what was happening.
Yeah, I agree with that sentiment and I think you said it better than I did.

When I was talking about the time spent on this, I wasn't talking about the comic's release schedule at all - I know that's the common excuse for any criticism directed at the comic, but just in terms of the number of pages used I think this is quite poorly executed and the end result is quite boring.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Oh, don't worry. I actually think it's even worse with Salagir, given that abysmally stupid release schedule. That just compounds any pacing problem.
I agree that Salagir is worse about it, but not for that reason. I think it's worse because his commentary sounds much less natural than Toriyama's, to the extent that the characters stop sounding like themselves when he uses them for exposition.

An example would be Piccolo's comments on Cold's strength. He's too damn specific compared to how Toriyama would have someone make those comparisons, and he goes as far as to have Piccolo actually use the phrase "Perfect Cell" as if he were in a fan debate.

He manages to make it sound more unnatural than when Freeza is putting his power into pure mathematical terms!
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by BlazingBarrrager » Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:05 pm

Something that annoys me is that the U18 cast and Future Trunks believe that Cold would have overpowered them if he went beyond his 2nd form when for all purposes (and multiverse theory being a bitch) Cold is simply stronger in his Universe and not U18.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by ryou766 » Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:27 pm

I was reading a few chapters back, and just noticed Beerus and Whis are in the audience: though, that might have been just for shits and giggles.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:42 pm

Saiga wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Oh, don't worry. I actually think it's even worse with Salagir, given that abysmally stupid release schedule. That just compounds any pacing problem.
I agree that Salagir is worse about it, but not for that reason. I think it's worse because his commentary sounds much less natural than Toriyama's, to the extent that the characters stop sounding like themselves when he uses them for exposition.

An example would be Piccolo's comments on Cold's strength. He's too damn specific compared to how Toriyama would have someone make those comparisons, and he goes as far as to have Piccolo actually use the phrase "Perfect Cell" as if he were in a fan debate.

He manages to make it sound more unnatural than when Freeza is putting his power into pure mathematical terms!
Oh yeah, the dialogue is definitely stilted. Bra's "Take them back! Their weakness embarasses me" line from a few pages ago really stood out to me.

Not sure if that's on Salagir or whoever the translator is, though.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Saiga » Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:42 pm

I thought Salagir WAS the translator, unless that changed. I believe he was concerned that another translator would not get the nuance across from the French text.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:48 pm

Saiga wrote:I thought Salagir WAS the translator, unless that changed. I believe he was concerned that another translator would not get the nuance across from the French text.
I dunno, maybe. I seem to recall Tzigi talking about other translators, although I could be mistaken.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by ParkerAL » Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:04 am

Dragon Ball Multiverse's dialogue almost always sounds odd one way or another. I don't speak French, but my best guess would be the translator tries too hard to transfer the exact meaning of the original dialogue, without adapting it to sound more natural in English.
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