English Dragon Box Release

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

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Post by Smooth Criminal » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:17 am

jjgp1112 wrote:I can't believe you guys are stll taking that, "We didn't chage a damn thing line" literally. It can mean anything.
When it comes to the Dbox, if they say "we didn't change a damn thing," they'd better mean it.

Dude, they didn't even really explain what it was. They knew, that WE KNEW, and our expectations for it are astronomical. For him to say "we didn't change a damn thing," and to NOT mean it, would be an even worse move than the promo video they put out for the season sets. At least in that case, a large portion of their audience would be easily fooled.

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Post by Saiyavenger2941 » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:22 am

Smooth Criminal wrote:Why would a casual dub fan want the Dragon Box if Season One is readily available and cheaper?

I think you basically stumped yourself. Nobody who isn't a hardcore fan would give enough of a shit to compare the two releases side-by-side and and choose the DBOX.

EDUCATED hardcore dub fans are in the minority. Half of them don't even know what the Dragon Box is-- just go look on youtube.

I hate to be the asshole here, but this release is PRIMARILY aimed at fans who have been salivating for a US release of the JP Dragon Box for years and years. No one who really made a strong effort to try and convince FUNi to do this gives a shit about the US dub.

Yeah, it would be nice to make everyone happy, but you know what? Storage space on a DVD isn't unlimited. TOO BAD. You are in the minority if you have been starving for the DBox yet are in love with the Faulconer dub. Just feel happy that you're getting an English language version at all.... Because many of us TRUE fans could give a shit about any of it, Faulconer or otherwise. It just takes up disc space-- THAT'S ALL.

I want the JP voice track with the highest bit-rate possible, equivalent to the original DBOX. They said they didn't change anything.... That means English fans will have to STFU and DEAL with whatever disc space is left.

Though I'm sure the vast majority of dub fans are plenty happy with the season sets.

In short, I don't really see the issue. English Dub fans who have been following the original Dbox releases and have wanted it as much as us are in the small, small minority. That's just tough shit.

Sorry, I guess you now know what it has felt like to be a fan of the original for so many years and to be completely IGNORED by FUNi in many instances, as if we didn't exist. How many times did we have to bitch before they finally made the games bi-lingual? Even then there were still releases that screwed us over. Now that we are getting catered to, FINALLY, you dub fans have the nerve to rain on OUR parade?
Not to stir the pot here, but that is really a dick thing to say. True fans? Really? So, you're saying someone like me who got into the show through the dub on Toonami isn't a real fan? That the only true fans are the ones who watch and salivate over the Japanese version? That all dub fans are uneducated bastards who only care about ruining your happy day? Come on, guy. That really ain't cool.

(And before you pull out a "shut up you whiny dub fan", I want to make it clear that I very much enjoy BOTH the dub and sub.)
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Post by Presc503 » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:25 am

Smooth Criminal wrote:Why would a casual dub fan want the Dragon Box if Season One is readily available and cheaper?

I think you basically stumped yourself. Nobody who isn't a hardcore fan would give enough of a shit to compare the two releases side-by-side and and choose the DBOX.

EDUCATED hardcore dub fans are in the minority. Half of them don't even know what the Dragon Box is-- just go look on youtube.

I hate to be the asshole here, but this release is PRIMARILY aimed at fans who have been salivating for a US release of the JP Dragon Box for years and years. No one who really made a strong effort to try and convince FUNi to do this gives a shit about the US dub.

Yeah, it would be nice to make everyone happy, but you know what? Storage space on a DVD isn't unlimited. TOO BAD. You are in the minority if you have been starving for the DBox yet are in love with the Faulconer dub. Just feel happy that you're getting an English language version at all.... Because many of us TRUE fans could give a shit about any of it, Faulconer or otherwise. It just takes up disc space-- THAT'S ALL.

I want the JP voice track with the highest bit-rate possible, equivalent to the original DBOX. They said they didn't change anything.... That means English fans will have to STFU and DEAL with whatever disc space is left.

Though I'm sure the vast majority of dub fans are plenty happy with the season sets.

In short, I don't really see the issue. English Dub fans who have been following the original Dbox releases and have wanted it as much as us are in the small, small minority. That's just tough shit.

Sorry, I guess you now know what it has felt like to be a fan of the original for so many years and to be completely IGNORED by FUNi in many instances, as if we didn't exist. How many times did we have to bitch before they finally made the games bi-lingual? Even then there were still releases that screwed us over. Now that we are getting catered to, FINALLY, you dub fans have the nerve to rain on OUR parade?
Smooth Criminal, I'm not pro-dub or anything, but I'm going to type out the token repsonses before someone else does from dub fans:

-Why should we be excluded from good footage because we prefer the dub?

-If we have to deal with the season sets, why can't you?

-Why does your preference matter over us? It's a matter of opinion.

Okay, that being said, they are releasing the Dragon Box. Now, those of us who went and clamored over the Dragon Box and bought singles/boxes obviously are fans of the Japanese dialogue and BGM. The people that brought the Dragon Box to attention on these board were the people who PROBABLY were more into the Japanese version (evidence is that most--not all--dub fans don't know what the Dragon Box is). Now I don't want to assume too much here, but this release is driven more toward the subbie, as has been repeated ad nauseum. The original Dragon Box only includes the JPN dialogue and BGM. The default FUNi Box is JPN dialogue with subs. It doesn't take much to figure out to whom this box is directed.

This doesn't mean that FUNi doesn't care about the dub fans. They do since they included at least one dub track on these sets, but to get angry about not having both dub tracks would seem silly, and I hope it doesn't deter you from buying the set because you want to hear both. Now if I were FUNi, I would put the broadcast BGM on the sets. It SEEMS most dub fans prefer it over the English dialogue with JPN BGM; it would be wiser on the business sense. In my opinion, I'd rather see the Faulconer BGM phased out. I like synth music, but not his.

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Post by Presc503 » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:30 am

jjgp1112 wrote:I can't believe you guys are stll taking that, "We didn't chage a damn thing line" literally. It can mean anything.
Why not? Is it odd to expect them to have the exact same restored footage (well as close as they can get with encodes), next ep. previews, correct opening and ending credits, and all correct insert songs and music. Is it hard to believe that they would use they same type of menus that the original Dragon Box? Like Kendamu pointed out, the packaging practically mimics the original DBox.

While not everything will be the same (dub track, subtitles, no extra presents, different DragonBook format), it isn't going so far into the ether to believe that most everything--DVDs, footage, packaging, content, menus, etc.--will be damn near like the original.

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Post by Smooth Criminal » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:31 am

Saiyavenger2941 wrote:
Smooth Criminal wrote:Why would a casual dub fan want the Dragon Box if Season One is readily available and cheaper?

I think you basically stumped yourself. Nobody who isn't a hardcore fan would give enough of a shit to compare the two releases side-by-side and and choose the DBOX.

EDUCATED hardcore dub fans are in the minority. Half of them don't even know what the Dragon Box is-- just go look on youtube.

I hate to be the asshole here, but this release is PRIMARILY aimed at fans who have been salivating for a US release of the JP Dragon Box for years and years. No one who really made a strong effort to try and convince FUNi to do this gives a shit about the US dub.

Yeah, it would be nice to make everyone happy, but you know what? Storage space on a DVD isn't unlimited. TOO BAD. You are in the minority if you have been starving for the DBox yet are in love with the Faulconer dub. Just feel happy that you're getting an English language version at all.... Because many of us TRUE fans could give a shit about any of it, Faulconer or otherwise. It just takes up disc space-- THAT'S ALL.

I want the JP voice track with the highest bit-rate possible, equivalent to the original DBOX. They said they didn't change anything.... That means English fans will have to STFU and DEAL with whatever disc space is left.

Though I'm sure the vast majority of dub fans are plenty happy with the season sets.

In short, I don't really see the issue. English Dub fans who have been following the original Dbox releases and have wanted it as much as us are in the small, small minority. That's just tough shit.

Sorry, I guess you now know what it has felt like to be a fan of the original for so many years and to be completely IGNORED by FUNi in many instances, as if we didn't exist. How many times did we have to bitch before they finally made the games bi-lingual? Even then there were still releases that screwed us over. Now that we are getting catered to, FINALLY, you dub fans have the nerve to rain on OUR parade?
Not to stir the pot here, but that is really a dick thing to say. True fans? Really? So, you're saying someone like me who got into the show through the dub on Toonami isn't a real fan? That the only true fans are the ones who watch and salivate over the Japanese version? That all dub fans are uneducated bastards who only care about ruining your happy day? Come on, guy. That really ain't cool.

(And before you pull out a "shut up you whiny dub fan", I want to make it clear that I very much enjoy BOTH the dub and sub.)
You're not a real fan of the Dragon Box, no. Are you going to try and argue this, too?

The Dragon Box doesn't contain any English-language dialog at all.

This isn't FUNimation saying "this is a new 4:3 re-release of Dragonball Z!" No, this is FUNimation saying "Hey, the Dragon Box is coming out in America."

There is a serious difference there. A fan of the Dragon Box wants the JP dialog. If you're not a fan of the Dragon Box, hey, the Season set is all you, dude. Go for it.

The true fans were willing to spend the money to watch these fucking releases WITHOUT SUBTITLES. Yeah, without even knowing what was being said. Now that is a hardcore fan.

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Post by jjgp1112 » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:32 am

Presc503 wrote:
Smooth Criminal, I'm not pro-dub or anything, but I'm going to type out the token repsonses before someone else does from dub fans:

-Why should we be excluded from good footage because we prefer the dub?

-If we have to deal with the season sets, why can't you?

-Why does your preference matter over us? It's a matter of opinion.
This shit right here: THIS is the type of shit that fucking pisses me off.

Maybe I do need a break from this place.

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Post by Krakabeast » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:34 am

Smooth Criminal wrote:
Saiyavenger2941 wrote:
Smooth Criminal wrote:Why would a casual dub fan want the Dragon Box if Season One is readily available and cheaper?

I think you basically stumped yourself. Nobody who isn't a hardcore fan would give enough of a shit to compare the two releases side-by-side and and choose the DBOX.

EDUCATED hardcore dub fans are in the minority. Half of them don't even know what the Dragon Box is-- just go look on youtube.

I hate to be the asshole here, but this release is PRIMARILY aimed at fans who have been salivating for a US release of the JP Dragon Box for years and years. No one who really made a strong effort to try and convince FUNi to do this gives a shit about the US dub.

Yeah, it would be nice to make everyone happy, but you know what? Storage space on a DVD isn't unlimited. TOO BAD. You are in the minority if you have been starving for the DBox yet are in love with the Faulconer dub. Just feel happy that you're getting an English language version at all.... Because many of us TRUE fans could give a shit about any of it, Faulconer or otherwise. It just takes up disc space-- THAT'S ALL.

I want the JP voice track with the highest bit-rate possible, equivalent to the original DBOX. They said they didn't change anything.... That means English fans will have to STFU and DEAL with whatever disc space is left.

Though I'm sure the vast majority of dub fans are plenty happy with the season sets.

In short, I don't really see the issue. English Dub fans who have been following the original Dbox releases and have wanted it as much as us are in the small, small minority. That's just tough shit.

Sorry, I guess you now know what it has felt like to be a fan of the original for so many years and to be completely IGNORED by FUNi in many instances, as if we didn't exist. How many times did we have to bitch before they finally made the games bi-lingual? Even then there were still releases that screwed us over. Now that we are getting catered to, FINALLY, you dub fans have the nerve to rain on OUR parade?
Not to stir the pot here, but that is really a dick thing to say. True fans? Really? So, you're saying someone like me who got into the show through the dub on Toonami isn't a real fan? That the only true fans are the ones who watch and salivate over the Japanese version? That all dub fans are uneducated bastards who only care about ruining your happy day? Come on, guy. That really ain't cool.

(And before you pull out a "shut up you whiny dub fan", I want to make it clear that I very much enjoy BOTH the dub and sub.)
You're not a real fan of the Dragon Box, no. Are you going to try and argue this, too?

The Dragon Box doesn't contain any English-language dialog at all.

This isn't FUNimation saying "this is a new 4:3 re-release of Dragonball Z!" No, this is FUNimation saying "Hey, the Dragon Box is coming out in America."

There is a serious difference there. A fan of the Dragon Box wants the JP dialog. If you're not a fan of the Dragon Box, hey, the Season set is all you, dude. Go for it.

The true fans were willing to spend the money to watch these fucking releases WITHOUT SUBTITLES. Yeah, without even knowing what was being said. Now that is a hardcore fan.
So, I guess those who had little or no money, and couldn't realistically afford the original DBoxes are not true fans.
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Post by Saiyavenger2941 » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:34 am

Smooth Criminal wrote:
Saiyavenger2941 wrote:
Smooth Criminal wrote:Why would a casual dub fan want the Dragon Box if Season One is readily available and cheaper?

I think you basically stumped yourself. Nobody who isn't a hardcore fan would give enough of a shit to compare the two releases side-by-side and and choose the DBOX.

EDUCATED hardcore dub fans are in the minority. Half of them don't even know what the Dragon Box is-- just go look on youtube.

I hate to be the asshole here, but this release is PRIMARILY aimed at fans who have been salivating for a US release of the JP Dragon Box for years and years. No one who really made a strong effort to try and convince FUNi to do this gives a shit about the US dub.

Yeah, it would be nice to make everyone happy, but you know what? Storage space on a DVD isn't unlimited. TOO BAD. You are in the minority if you have been starving for the DBox yet are in love with the Faulconer dub. Just feel happy that you're getting an English language version at all.... Because many of us TRUE fans could give a shit about any of it, Faulconer or otherwise. It just takes up disc space-- THAT'S ALL.

I want the JP voice track with the highest bit-rate possible, equivalent to the original DBOX. They said they didn't change anything.... That means English fans will have to STFU and DEAL with whatever disc space is left.

Though I'm sure the vast majority of dub fans are plenty happy with the season sets.

In short, I don't really see the issue. English Dub fans who have been following the original Dbox releases and have wanted it as much as us are in the small, small minority. That's just tough shit.

Sorry, I guess you now know what it has felt like to be a fan of the original for so many years and to be completely IGNORED by FUNi in many instances, as if we didn't exist. How many times did we have to bitch before they finally made the games bi-lingual? Even then there were still releases that screwed us over. Now that we are getting catered to, FINALLY, you dub fans have the nerve to rain on OUR parade?
Not to stir the pot here, but that is really a dick thing to say. True fans? Really? So, you're saying someone like me who got into the show through the dub on Toonami isn't a real fan? That the only true fans are the ones who watch and salivate over the Japanese version? That all dub fans are uneducated bastards who only care about ruining your happy day? Come on, guy. That really ain't cool.

(And before you pull out a "shut up you whiny dub fan", I want to make it clear that I very much enjoy BOTH the dub and sub.)
You're not a real fan of the Dragon Box, no. Are you going to try and argue this, too?

The Dragon Box doesn't contain any English-language dialog at all.

This isn't FUNimation saying "this is a new 4:3 re-release of Dragonball Z!" No, this is FUNimation saying "Hey, the Dragon Box is coming out in America."

There is a serious difference there. A fan of the Dragon Box wants the JP dialog. If you're not a fan of the Dragon Box, hey, the Season set is all you, dude. Go for it.

The true fans were willing to spend the money to watch these fucking releases WITHOUT SUBTITLES. Yeah, without even knowing what was being said. Now that is a hardcore fan.
I never said a damn thing about hating the Dragon Boxes. Don't put words in my mouth.

All I said is you have no right to decide who or who isn't a true fan.
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Post by Presc503 » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:36 am

jjgp, while we may not see eye to eye on viewing preference, I would probably prefer to see Faulconer's dub on there for selling purposes. It pains me to say it, but I can see that more people prefer it. I guess I'll take the John Stuart Mill utilitarian approach and say include his BGM. More sales mean further possible edition of FUNi Boxes.

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Post by Kid Trunks » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:55 am

Smooth Criminal wrote:
The Dragon Box doesn't contain any English-language dialog at all.

This isn't FUNimation saying "this is a new 4:3 re-release of Dragonball Z!" No, this is FUNimation saying "Hey, the Dragon Box is coming out in America."

There is a serious difference there. A fan of the Dragon Box wants the JP dialog. If you're not a fan of the Dragon Box, hey, the Season set is all you, dude. Go for it.

The true fans were willing to spend the money to watch these fucking releases WITHOUT SUBTITLES. Yeah, without even knowing what was being said. Now that is a hardcore fan.
By that logic theres only like 4 true fans on this board. Looks like the rest of us are wasting our time.

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Post by SaiyamanMS » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:55 am

Now then, I would consider myself a fan of the dub. I love most of the show's English cast, Sean Schemmel is Goku to me. And I have to say... I want the Japanese music. As much as I love the Faulconer score, it honestly doesn't hold up against Kikuchi's. And the Menza and Johnson scores are both rubbish.

Despite not being particularly fond of Stephanie Nadolny's Goku, I found the Dragon Ball dub better than the Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball GT ones due to the fact that it used the original Japanese score. I did not want the season sets in widescreen, yet I still got the first 5 of them. Why? Because I could not resist the idea of getting the dub with the original Japanese music. The Japanese music brings the dub closer to being the definitive Dragon Ball experience IMO.

If we can have the Faulconer music as an additional dub track, that's cool. But it shouldn't be at the cost of the music that it was always supposed to have.

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Post by Li'l Lemmy » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:59 am

Anybody ever consider that maybe there was a reason Mike asked us to lay off this topic until there's more news to toss in? He was nice to let the speculation continue unabated despite his stated preferences-- probably because he assumed that we could handle the material like adults-- but here we are proving why he should have been more strict to his word.

I'm not saying that the thread is falling apart, but we're definitely headed into retarded territory. It's one thing to get caught up in the debate and lose perspective; it's another thing entirely to force your ePenis down the other person's throat. Can we please, please dump the "true fan" bullshit that has absolutely no place on these forums? If we can't discuss a topic, any topic maturely and with due respect for the opposing viewpoint, then it's not worth talking about until some of us grow the hell up.


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Post by Kendamu » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:05 am

Li'l Lemmy wrote:Anybody ever consider that maybe there was a reason Mike asked us to lay off this topic until there's more news to toss in? He was nice to let the speculation continue unabated despite his stated preferences-- probably because he assumed that we could handle the material like adults-- but here we are proving why he should have been more strict to his word.

I'm not saying that the thread is falling apart, but we're definitely headed into retarded territory. It's one thing to get caught up in the debate and lose perspective; it's another thing entirely to force your ePenis down the other person's throat. Can we please, please dump the "true fan" bullshit that has absolutely no place on these forums? If we can't discuss a topic, any topic maturely and with due respect for the opposing viewpoint, then it's not worth talking about until some of us grow the hell up.


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Post by Saiyavenger2941 » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:06 am

Li'l Lemmy wrote:Anybody ever consider that maybe there was a reason Mike asked us to lay off this topic until there's more news to toss in? He was nice to let the speculation continue unabated despite his stated preferences-- probably because he assumed that we could handle the material like adults-- but here we are proving why he should have been more strict to his word.

I'm not saying that the thread is falling apart, but we're definitely headed into retarded territory. It's one thing to get caught up in the debate and lose perspective; it's another thing entirely to force your ePenis down the other person's throat. Can we please, please dump the "true fan" bullshit that has absolutely no place on these forums? If we can't discuss a topic, any topic maturely and with respect for the other person's viewpoint, then it's not worth talking about until some of us grow the hell up.


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Post by Kendamu » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:07 am

Saiyavenger2941 wrote:This. X9001.
I see what you did there... :wink:
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Post by Remix » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:12 am

Smooth Criminal wrote:The true fans were willing to spend the money to watch these fucking releases WITHOUT SUBTITLES. Yeah, without even knowing what was being said. Now that is a hardcore fan.
Can someone enlighten me as to how that nonsesne makes one a true fan? Maybe I'm just ignorant, but that also sounds like some hardcore dumbass with ample amounts of back fat. What? Does it makes you feel more pure as a fan for watching it that way?
Yeah, it would be nice to make everyone happy, but you know what? Storage space on a DVD isn't unlimited. TOO BAD. You are in the minority if you have been starving for the DBox yet are in love with the Faulconer dub. Just feel happy that you're getting an English language version at all.... Because many of us TRUE fans could give a shit about any of it, Faulconer or otherwise. It just takes up disc space-- THAT'S ALL.
Okay, maybe this particular outburst of bitchified rage is justified. The, I don't know, "UNTRUE FANS" probably responded this way when you guys bitched for over a year about how the Season Sets were faux-"remastered" orange bricks.
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Post by Raki » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:31 am

To be fair he typed "hardcore fan" not true fan. But whatever, he did go over the top. Honestly we need more info on this release so this thread doesn't self-destruct.
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Post by Li'l Lemmy » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:31 am

I do hate that fucking term, because it becomes retardedly easy for any run-of-the-mill troll to twist its meaning into something prejudiced.

A "true fan," if we must indeed have such a term, is someone who watches the manga/anime and still cares about it after its over. That is it. That's all one has to do. There's no secret to it other than that one simple fucking thing. To suggest otherwise is derogatory and incredibly offensive to those of us who know how to look at the property objectively and for what it is rather than piss all over it with these awful attitudes.

I apologize if I sound rude. I'm finished.


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Goten of Japan wrote:Don't go 9... Go 10! (Go-ten. Goten. Get it? DOOD.)
The NUMBER ONE Goten fan, and a fucking epic one at that.

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Saiyavenger2941
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Post by Saiyavenger2941 » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:34 am

Li'l Lemmy wrote:I do hate that fucking term, because it becomes retardedly easy for any run-of-the-mill troll to twist its meaning into something prejudiced.

A "true fan," if we must indeed have such a term, is someone who watches the manga/anime and still cares about it after its over. That is it. That's all one has to do. There's no secret to it other than that one simple fucking thing. To suggest otherwise is derogatory and incredibly offensive to those of us who know how to look at the property objectively and for what it is rather than piss all over it with these awful attitudes.

I apologize if I sound rude. I'm finished.


~Da Lemmy
That'll do, Goten. That'll do.

(Seriously. You keep saying what needs to be said here, and you deserve mad props for it.)
[color=#30966E][b]PROUDLY Straight-Edge. Arrogant. Gohan and Videl obsessed. BE JEALOUS![/b][/color]
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fps_anth
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Post by fps_anth » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:38 am

Remix wrote: Can someone enlighten me as to how that nonsesne makes one a true fan? Maybe I'm just ignorant, but that also sounds like some hardcore dumbass with ample amounts of back fat. What? Does it makes you feel more pure as a fan for watching it that way?
I love this show so much that I've watched it so many times that I have the dialogue memorized inside out. Ergo, I'm willing to buy R2 DVDs with no English subtitles.

I don't know how to define "true fan". But I'd say the above sentences would accurately describe a hardcore fan.

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