FUNi Remastered "Double Features" vs Dragon Box

Greenman · Post by **Greenman** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:09 pm

DBZfan29 wrote:I know this isn't what you're looking for, but a while back I made a side-by-side moving comparison of the original FUNimation and Dragon Box version of DBZ movie 13. It's been uploaded on YouTube, and since then it's had a lot of controversial things said on the page...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze54-PwAIYE

I actually watched that video one or two months ago. It's one of the things that got me thinking about this in the first place.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:31 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:God, Movie 8 is so bright . That's even worse than Season 2.

Y'know, I remember that movie looking so much better in the Orange Brick Tech Trailer. I wonder why they further changed it from what they showed us when they already had a good product before Season 1 ever came out.

G1Ravage · Post by **G1Ravage** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:35 am

Dragon Box wins.

Tyro · Post by **Tyro** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:19 am

Can someone tech-savvy explain to me whether the original film was cropped to widescreen for Dragon Box: The Movies and left unaltered for the US releases, or if the change was from widescreen to fullscreen, which would explain why Gohan's Masenko from movie 3 wasm't drawn in?

DemonRin · Post by **DemonRin** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 5:01 am

Tyro wrote:Can someone tech-savvy explain to me whether the original film was cropped to widescreen for Dragon Box: The Movies and left unaltered for the US releases, or if the change was from widescreen to fullscreen, which would explain why Gohan's Masenko from movie 3 wasm't drawn in?

The movies were animated in fullsccreen because fullscreen cells were cheaper. However, despite being animated in full screen, the Animators knew they were going to crop them into widescreen for the Theatrical release (because a Theater screen is widescreen) so when They animated the movies, they knew the stuff on the top and bottom of the frame was just going to be cropped away anyway, so at times those parts of the screen feature unfinished or unpolished animation.

A good example was Gohan's unfinished Masenko. The attack was drawn enough so that in the cropped frame, you see it perfectly, but once the image goes above where they intended to crop it, they just didn't finish it, because they didn't NEED to, since you were never meant to see that part of the screen.

When FUNimation got the masters for the movies, they were provided uncropped for FUNi, and since Fullscreen was the dominant format back then, they decided to just Leave them Uncropped.
Meanwhile, in Japan, the movies have NEVER been released in Fullscreen because that's not how you're meant to see them.

CashmanX · Post by **CashmanX** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:45 am

DemonRin wrote:
Tyro wrote:Can someone tech-savvy explain to me whether the original film was cropped to widescreen for Dragon Box: The Movies and left unaltered for the US releases, or if the change was from widescreen to fullscreen, which would explain why Gohan's Masenko from movie 3 wasm't drawn in?
The movies were animated in fullsccreen because fullscreen cells were cheaper. However, despite being animated in full screen, the Animators knew they were going to crop them into widescreen for the Theatrical release (because a Theater screen is widescreen) so when They animated the movies, they knew the stuff on the top and bottom of the frame was just going to be cropped away anyway, so at times those parts of the screen feature unfinished or unpolished animation.

A good example was Gohan's unfinished Masenko. The attack was drawn enough so that in the cropped frame, you see it perfectly, but once the image goes above where they intended to crop it, they just didn't finish it, because they didn't NEED to, since you were never meant to see that part of the screen.

When FUNimation got the masters for the movies, they were provided uncropped for FUNi, and since Fullscreen was the dominant format back then, they decided to just Leave them Uncropped.
Meanwhile, in Japan, the movies have NEVER been released in Fullscreen because that's not how you're meant to see them.

Y'know, I might actually hunt down those Movie singles Simply because they're in Fullscreen.

Tyro · Post by **Tyro** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:40 am

Many thanks, DemonRin.

Cashman, I actually own all of the movies originally released in fullscreen in the US. But now I'm torn between how I want to feel and how I actually feel. I'm a fan of the Dragon Box because it's truly "the way it's meant to be seen." But I also hate losing some of my picture because of it being widescreen, even if it was never meant to be fullscreen in the first place. I'll still pick up Dragon Box: The Movies for sure, but I really wish it used all of the picture.

GizmoKSX · Post by **GizmoKSX** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 5:12 pm

Similar open matte issues occur with live-action films. There are some good examples at widescreen.org: http://www.widescreen.org/widescreen_matte.shtml

When watching a movie, it's not so much about how much of the picture you see, but seeing what the director intended for you to see (and not seeing what he/she didn't want you to see). That said, if you want to take screen grabs from films for your own tinkering, it can be handy to have that extra bit of the picture.

CashmanX · Post by **CashmanX** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 5:19 pm

Tyro wrote:Many thanks, DemonRin.

Cashman, I actually own all of the movies originally released in fullscreen in the US. But now I'm torn between how I want to feel and how I actually feel. I'm a fan of the Dragon Box because it's truly "the way it's meant to be seen." But I also hate losing some of my picture because of it being widescreen, even if it was never meant to be fullscreen in the first place. I'll still pick up Dragon Box: The Movies for sure, but I really wish it used all of the picture.

Oh, I meant that I would keep them as novelty items as Japan never got the movies in full screen.

Captain Awesome · Post by **Captain Awesome** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 5:22 pm

I picked up the 4:3 movie singles shortly before they went out of print because I knew it was doubtful we'd ever get another fullscreen release.

Puto · Post by **Puto** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:15 am

DemonRin wrote:
Tyro wrote:Can someone tech-savvy explain to me whether the original film was cropped to widescreen for Dragon Box: The Movies and left unaltered for the US releases, or if the change was from widescreen to fullscreen, which would explain why Gohan's Masenko from movie 3 wasm't drawn in?
The movies were animated in fullsccreen because fullscreen cells were cheaper. However, despite being animated in full screen, the Animators knew they were going to crop them into widescreen for the Theatrical release (because a Theater screen is widescreen) so when They animated the movies, they knew the stuff on the top and bottom of the frame was just going to be cropped away anyway, so at times those parts of the screen feature unfinished or unpolished animation.

A good example was Gohan's unfinished Masenko. The attack was drawn enough so that in the cropped frame, you see it perfectly, but once the image goes above where they intended to crop it, they just didn't finish it, because they didn't NEED to, since you were never meant to see that part of the screen.

When FUNimation got the masters for the movies, they were provided uncropped for FUNi, and since Fullscreen was the dominant format back then, they decided to just Leave them Uncropped.
Meanwhile, in Japan, the movies have NEVER been released in Fullscreen because that's not how you're meant to see them.

An even better example is the opening in DB Movie 2. Since it was meant to be cropped anyway, to frame the opening better for a widescreen presentation, they moved several frames up and down, leaving black bars on the regions that were meant to be cropped off. In FUNimation's single, it looks really weird...

sumpter360 · Post by **sumpter360** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:36 pm

Puto wrote:An even better example is the opening in DB Movie 2. Since it was meant to be cropped anyway, to frame the opening better for a widescreen presentation, they moved several frames up and down, leaving black bars on the regions that were meant to be cropped off. In FUNimation's single, it looks really weird...

Maybe a screencap if available, please?

SatoSky · Post by **SatoSky** » Sun Dec 27, 2009 1:27 am

DB Movie 2 Funimation R1 Single

DB Movie 2 Toei R2 Dragon Box

sumpter360 · Post by **sumpter360** » Sun Dec 27, 2009 1:34 am

Wow, that really is strange. Haha, at least they weren't stretched to fullscreen.

Daimo-Rukiri · Post by **Daimo-Rukiri** » Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:19 am

SatoSky wrote:DB Movie 2 Funimation R1 Single

DB Movie 2 Toei R2 Dragon Box

Your DBOX shots look iffy.. No way FUNimation has better video!

The Tori-bot · Post by **The Tori-bot** » Sun Dec 27, 2009 12:11 pm

Daimo-Rukiri wrote:Your DBOX shots look iffy.. No way FUNimation has better video!

It doesn't look like they do to me.

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:18 pm

I need one more DBZ movie single to complete the 4:3 collection. Then I'll get the DBox movie set.

TheLiberator · Post by **TheLiberator** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:27 am

DemonRin wrote:The movies were animated in fullsccreen because fullscreen cells were cheaper. However, despite being animated in full screen, the Animators knew they were going to crop them into widescreen for the Theatrical release (because a Theater screen is widescreen) so when They animated the movies, they knew the stuff on the top and bottom of the frame was just going to be cropped away anyway, so at times those parts of the screen feature unfinished or unpolished animation.

Yeah, Toei has been known for being a bunch of cheap bastards. Despite how much money they had, they tried to spend as little of it as possible. It's the reason why the Japanese audio of all their series before the mid 90s sound like shit. After the television networks aired the episodes, they gave the original audio masters on tape back to Toei, which they then destroyed to save storage space. So the only audio of those shows that exist now is what was put directly onto the film masters. Thanks a lot Toei.

Tweaker · Post by **Tweaker** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:03 pm

The Double Features don't look too shabby! A bit bright in some spots, but the added contrast doesn't seem to destroy the picture like it did in the orange bricks.

dragonpiece · Post by **dragonpiece** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:18 pm

To me the Dragon Boxes looks much better in quality but I think the double features would still fit the bill if that's all we ever get.

Kanzenshuu

FUNi Remastered "Double Features" vs Dragon Box

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