Unpopular DB opinions

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:42 am

Not really... it's not like it happened all at once. Hell, even just being on Social media you can see what I'm talking about.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Toxin45 » Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:51 am

ABED wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:42 am
Not really... it's not like it happened all at once. Hell, even just being on Social media you can see what I'm talking about.
Yeah I have been on social media many times

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Xeogran » Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:47 pm

Final Bout is a good game and has plenty of soul put into it, such as:
All the enjoyable 2D artwork, giving adult GT Goku some spotlight (even in SSJ form!), amazing music on both vocal and instrumental fronts, fun character interactions pre and post-battle (alongside the characters and camera being in motion!)

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There's also something cute about the low-poly models, I like looking at them.

It's also the first 3D DB Game, so I don't get why some people won't cut it some slack.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:00 pm

Xeogran wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:47 pm
Final Bout is a good game and has plenty of soul put into it, such as:
All the enjoyable 2D artwork, giving adult GT Goku some spotlight (even in SSJ form!), amazing music on both vocal and instrumental fronts, fun character interactions pre and post-battle (alongside the characters and camera being in motion!)

Image
There's also something cute about the low-poly models, I like looking at them.

It's also the first 3D DB Game, so I don't get why some people won't cut it some slack.
For a 3D fighting game from 1997, especially given it was the very first Dragon Ball specific one as most of the ones prior to that had been strictly 2D i thought it was an ok title even if clunky control wise.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:25 pm

Xeogran wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:47 pm
Final Bout is a good game and has plenty of soul put into it, such as:
All the enjoyable 2D artwork, giving adult GT Goku some spotlight (even in SSJ form!), amazing music on both vocal and instrumental fronts, fun character interactions pre and post-battle (alongside the characters and camera being in motion!)

Image
There's also something cute about the low-poly models, I like looking at them.

It's also the first 3D DB Game, so I don't get why some people won't cut it some slack.
I feel like most of this game haters are either too young to appreciate this being a first 3D game in franchise or simply can't play it. I saw many people on youtube who knew shit about game mechanics and called it a bad game. Then others repeat the same thing, record their gameplay, confirm it's a bad game and repeat and repeat. Why won't they play DBZ Idainaru Dragon Ball Densetsu aka "DBZ The Legend"? This game is literally unplayable if you have no idea how to play it so it means it's a crap? Hell no, it's one of the best DB games.

I mean Final Bout at least has tournament mode which isn't that obvious even in some more recent games. And SSJ4 never felt as powerful in any other game. You could feel that you play as SSJ4 Goku. Also this game has one of the best soundtracks in all of DB games and one of the best if not the best opening sequence.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Soppa Saia People » Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:00 pm

absolutely love final bout, yes the gameplay is kinda clunky and a lot of other 3d ps1 fighters were a lot more advanced, but there's something so so charming about the 3d models, the crappy backgrounds, the insanely compressed voice clips and animated intro. i just love the ps1 era of games and final bout has like, everything i love about it, for better and for worse.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Toxin45 » Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:52 pm

ABED wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:32 pm
It's bad enough that Freeza is brought back, given a new form that's just a recolor, only to be killed off. Not only is he killed off again, but he's defeated for the exact same reason he lost the last time. His full power is little more than a form that drains his power which he doesn't realize because he doesn't train enough.
Chekov's Gun is a GREAT writing trope when used right.
That's not a trope as much as something at the heart of great writing - set up and payoff.

Vegeta not getting the kill was not the reason it was all a waste. Bringing Freeza back to begin with was the mistake. Been there, done that. Turning one of the best villains of all time, certainly one of DB's best, into a comic book supervillain who gets beaten time after time after time. This is the core of the issue.
To be fair comic book supervillains do win sometimes

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Toxin45 » Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:54 pm

ABED wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:54 pm
MyVisionity wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:50 pm
I'm not sure what the problem is with Ressurection F. Why wouldn't Freeza be brought back and killed off? What's he gonna do, survive?
That would've been preferable to doing what they did decades prior. Better yet, they could've not gone back to that well.
Then frieza came back in tournament of power and broly so nope

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Scsigs » Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:41 pm

Soppa Saia People wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:00 pm
absolutely love final bout, yes the gameplay is kinda clunky and a lot of other 3d ps1 fighters were a lot more advanced, but there's something so so charming about the 3d models, the crappy backgrounds, the insanely compressed voice clips and animated intro. i just love the ps1 era of games and final bout has like, everything i love about it, for better and for worse.
It seems like you like it out of nostalgia & some of the better qualities. That's fine, as long as you're not under the impression that the game's better than it is. Like, I like Nicktoons Unite for the writing & voice acting, which is mostly on par with the shows. However, it's a terrible game on a gameplay & visual level.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Kunzait_83 » Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:28 pm

Scsigs wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:41 pm
It seems like you like it out of nostalgia & some of the better qualities. That's fine, as long as you're not under the impression that the game's better than it is. Like, I like Nicktoons Unite for the writing & voice acting, which is mostly on par with the shows. However, it's a terrible game on a gameplay & visual level.
Unless its Power Rangers of course. THAT shit is unimpeachably nostalgia-proof and how dare anyone not concede that its high quality TV acting & writing, amirite?
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:36 pm

I have a soft spot for early 3D graphics as well because I grew up when that stuff was brand new. I remember how video games like FF7, OOT, SM64, and Turok blew me away as a kid because I was used to playing 2D games on the Sega Genesis. Video games sure have come a long way in over 25 years.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Surai » Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:14 pm

Super 17 made no sense story wise but he was really cool.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Scsigs » Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:39 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:28 pm
Scsigs wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:41 pm
It seems like you like it out of nostalgia & some of the better qualities. That's fine, as long as you're not under the impression that the game's better than it is. Like, I like Nicktoons Unite for the writing & voice acting, which is mostly on par with the shows. However, it's a terrible game on a gameplay & visual level.
Unless its Power Rangers of course. THAT shit is unimpeachably nostalgia-proof and how dare anyone not concede that its high quality TV acting & writing, amirite?
First of all, I'm not defending the worst seasons of the show. The best seasons are really good. What I was doing was saying just that. And there ARE some really awful seasons of that franchise like any other.

And, seriously? On a Dragon Ball forum, you're gonna pick on me for liking Power Rangers & defending the best seasons of it? Really? I'm sick of the double standard. Just because it's Power Rangers, there's nothing worth defending about it? The thread we're in right now is dedicated to people dying on a hill for aspects of the DB franchise they have unpopular opinions about, you really wanna bring that back up? There's a reason I just stopped responding to that. I realized I was getting nowhere fast & it just wasn't worth it.

Let's not get this shit twisted, though, there are some truly awful parts of this franchise that could rival most of the worst of the worst Power Rangers has ever done. You wanna actually do this? I don't, but do you? To answer your question, no, my liking of several seasons of that show isn't due to nostalgia. I've rewatched my favorites from when I was a kid over the last several years since they were put on Netflix & they still hold up rather well, minus some things that date them horribly. And YES, there IS some great writing in many of the seasons. If you actually gave a damn to humor me, you'd see it. I accept them for what they are. Don't you go accusing me of double standards.

But, really? Over Final Bout? One of the more infamous DB games that doesn't hold up at all? Ok, bruh. Ok then.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Surai » Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:11 pm

The issue lies in one's definition of a good game. Some people (well, most people) care about the technical aspect. Some other people totally overlook that aspect and will enjoy a game regardless of its technical issues (if it has any), for them it's more about memories built when playing the game with family and friends.

So yes, it has something to do with nostalgia. But the definition of a good video game is totally subjective. It's not like movies, after all the sole purpose of a video game is to have fun. It's supposed to be entertaining, the artistic aspect is a bonus.

I know I have some good memories about Final Bout, back when I played it with family. But I wouldn't call it a good game because I was way too young to form a true opinion.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Scsigs » Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:00 pm

Surai wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:11 pm
The issue lies in one's definition of a good game. Some people (well, most people) care about the technical aspect. Some other people totally overlook that aspect and will enjoy a game regardless of its technical issues (if it has any), for them it's more about memories built when playing the game with family and friends.

So yes, it has something to do with nostalgia. But the definition of a good video game is totally subjective. It's not like movies, after all the sole purpose of a video game is to have fun. It's supposed to be entertaining, the artistic aspect is a bonus.

I know I have some good memories about Final Bout, back when I played it with family. But I wouldn't call it a good game because I was way too young to form a true opinion.
Yeah. I just assumed nostalgia, but that was mainly on a gameplay level. I gave you that the art of the animation was good & I let you have the other things, since I didn't know much about them, but I HAVE seen the game in action, so I know I wouldn't like it. I'm not gonna take away if you like something, I was just trying to point out the most likely reason. You said you remember the PS1 era of games very fondly. There were some good games & some good franchises came from it, but I didn't grow up with that generation much, so I have no attachment to it & I know there are generations & consoles people absolutely love out of nostalgia, so that's where I'm coming from here.

It's fine to have nostalgia, I don't think that's wrong since we all have it for some things. It's just that I also think that if something is still good years later, that's the stuff that really holds up & your nostalgia just enhances the experience of revisiting it, which is why I adamantly defend the things I think are legitimately good to great. I won't take away nostalgia from you if you have it. However, if you find more enjoyment in the game than I think you could get out of that game nowadays, good for you. More power to you. You continue to do so. I can't convince you otherwise, nor do I think this is something to waste my time or energy on.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Dbzfan94 » Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:13 pm

Final Bout's intro is the best part about that game. Biggest Fight is awesome. Too bad the version i found at a flea market doesnt have it :(

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Surai » Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:37 pm

Scsigs wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:00 pm
Surai wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:11 pm
The issue lies in one's definition of a good game. Some people (well, most people) care about the technical aspect. Some other people totally overlook that aspect and will enjoy a game regardless of its technical issues (if it has any), for them it's more about memories built when playing the game with family and friends.

So yes, it has something to do with nostalgia. But the definition of a good video game is totally subjective. It's not like movies, after all the sole purpose of a video game is to have fun. It's supposed to be entertaining, the artistic aspect is a bonus.

I know I have some good memories about Final Bout, back when I played it with family. But I wouldn't call it a good game because I was way too young to form a true opinion.
Yeah. I just assumed nostalgia, but that was mainly on a gameplay level. I gave you that the art of the animation was good & I let you have the other things, since I didn't know much about them, but I HAVE seen the game in action, so I know I wouldn't like it. I'm not gonna take away if you like something, I was just trying to point out the most likely reason. You said you remember the PS1 era of games very fondly. There were some good games & some good franchises came from it, but I didn't grow up with that generation much, so I have no attachment to it & I know there are generations & consoles people absolutely love out of nostalgia, so that's where I'm coming from here.

It's fine to have nostalgia, I don't think that's wrong since we all have it for some things. It's just that I also think that if something is still good years later, that's the stuff that really holds up & your nostalgia just enhances the experience of revisiting it, which is why I adamantly defend the things I think are legitimately good to great. I won't take away nostalgia from you if you have it. However, if you find more enjoyment in the game than I think you could get out of that game nowadays, good for you. More power to you. You continue to do so. I can't convince you otherwise, nor do I think this is something to waste my time or energy on.
Sorry, it looks like you confused me with someone else. You were originally talking with @Soppa Saia People. I've just come in the middle of the conversation to give my opinion.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Kunzait_83 » Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:41 pm

Scsigs wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:39 pm
But, really? Over Final Bout? One of the more infamous DB games that doesn't hold up at all? Ok, bruh. Ok then.
For what its worth: my earlier comment WASN'T somehow meant as a defense of Final Bout, which yes I 100% agree is absolute garbage and among the worst of all the DB games (killer soundtrack aside). I wasn't taking the pro-Final Bout side of this: I've trashed that game on here numerous times before, because it certainly warrants it.

I didn't make that comment in defense of Final Bout (and I'm not even sure how one could've even gotten that impression to begin with): Final Bout is absolutely indeed total trash as a game. I made the remark because I found the sentiment you expressed regarding nostalgia, while totally 100% correct in principal, to still be funny in light of that recent post of yours rabidly defending a property that, I'm sorry, but that I find to be COMPLETELY indefensible on just about ANY level and who's continued enduring existence is almost SQUARELY tied to nostalgia and little else.

By that same token...

Scsigs wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:39 pm
And, seriously? On a Dragon Ball forum, you're gonna pick on me for liking Power Rangers & defending the best seasons of it? Really? I'm sick of the double standard. Just because it's Power Rangers, there's nothing worth defending about it?

...

Let's not get this shit twisted, though, there are some truly awful parts of this franchise that could rival most of the worst of the worst Power Rangers has ever done.
The most truly awful parts of the DB franchise that rival anything Power Rangers has ever done are almost 100% tied to either FUNimation (or whichever other shitty foreign dubs ala Big Green or whatever) or spinoff material like DB Heroes. Stuff which you'll pretty much NEVER hear me defend on basically any level whatsoever.

In the main Japanese 1984 - 1995 body of the series though? Yeah, this is where I completely disagree. DB is by no means unassailable perfection or masterful brilliance on any level whatsoever (outside of Toriyama's raw, technical skill as a comic artist at least)... but when put side by side next to the likes of something like Power Rangers (ANY of it)... then in that comparison, DB might as well be A Touch of Zen.

There's no double standard here: one's a silly, goofy, dumb, ridiculous, but generally respectably well executed and (by and large) legitimately creative children's martial arts fantasy serial... and the other is Power Rangers, which yes, I will say has ZERO redeeming characteristics whatsoever apart from nostalgia comfort food. And yes, I do mean ALL of it, no matter your season/series of preference: there's NOTHING the least bit defensible there whatsoever. And yes, sadly I've indeed been subjected to it myself firsthand: the newer and the older stuff. Hell, in no small part due to sheer proximity osmosis from this very community here.

I'll happily throw the very rock bottom worst of DB into the garbage pit alongside Power Rangers... but unlike PR, the better parts of DB actually have SOME vague shred of something that's halfway creatively interesting going for it. Even if you were to be extra harsh and whittle it down to JUST SOLELY Toriyama's art and paneling composition all alone by itself, that is still leagues and leagues more than can be said for almost ANY aspect of PR that isn't purely just the inherent surreal silliness of the raw "rubber & cardboard" Sentai footage or some bits of notable stuntwork here or there.

In terms of writing, acting, storytelling... there's no there there. Its all JUST a hollowed-out toy commercial from one end to the other. Even if you just want sheer dumb, mindless action (explosions, kung fu fights, monsters & robots, plot totally optional: which I am in NO way against by the way), there's SO much infinitely better out there even JUST for that kind of sheer dumb action that PR doesn't even pass basic-most muster on THAT rock bottom standard. Do stupid action schlock, by all means: but even stupid action schlock has been done SO much fucking better than this.

And true, all the exact same criticisms noted above can (and should) be lobbied at something like DB Heroes: but stuff like DB Heroes I've literally NEVER ONCE defended (not even as "so bad its good"), nor would I. When it comes to junking the worst, crappiest, most cynically hollow & commercial shit with the Dragon Ball name on it, I'm right there at the front of the line more than happy to do it.

I know we're at an impasse of viewpoints here: I just found the diametric clashing of these two posts of yours to be too amusing to not make a note of. It wasn't meant to start some kind of a fight: it was just me teasing/ribbing a little. :P
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Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Scsigs » Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:57 pm

Surai wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:37 pm
Sorry, it looks like you confused me with someone else. You were originally talking with @Soppa Saia People. I've just come in the middle of the conversation to give my opinion.
Oh, damn, sorry. If that person checks back, you're right. I confused you two.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Soppa Saia People » Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:10 pm

Scsigs wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:41 pm
It seems like you like it out of nostalgia & some of the better qualities. That's fine, as long as you're not under the impression that the game's better than it is. Like, I like Nicktoons Unite for the writing & voice acting, which is mostly on par with the shows. However, it's a terrible game on a gameplay & visual level.
i mean i think it's better then most give it credit for, but i also do genuinely like the game a lot because it has a lot of elements that i find interesting. same with mother 1 and some nes era games, sure most of those games are insanely outclassed and don't hold up very well, but they have a lot of things that appeal to me and fascinate me. i don't really play games so that stuff matters more to me i guess.

edit : it's not really nostalgia either, i just have a fascination with early 2d and 3d games that feel like they were made in 1 persons basement.
Last edited by Soppa Saia People on Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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