Unpopular DB opinions

[WittyUsername]

Didn’t Dale Kelly mention in an interview that the thought process behind the dub music for DBZ was to emulate garbage like Batman Beyond?

He told the higher ups they should do the soundtrack like Batman Beyond because he thought Batman Beyond had cutting edge music and evidently Batman Beyond was kicking Dragon Ball Z’s butt in the ratings.


I don’t know how fast the turn around time was for Funimation to cobble episodes together but Beyond was only on the air for 3 months before the first set of season 3 episodes were released on home video with the Faulconer score.


Though if that’s the case it seemed a pretty poor understanding on Kelly’s part. If Batman Beyond was outperforming DBZ in the ratings it would have been because 1. Batman Beyond aired on a network on the same programming block that showed Pokemon no less and DBZ aired on cable 2. Batman Beyond would have been new and DBZ would have been rerunning the Ocean cast episodes on Toonami for the second time not counting all those time those episodes had reruns in syndication.

I could buy that the Season 3 dub of DBZ was put together in less than three months. On that note, I could definitely but that they were trying to emulate Batman Beyond with this (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu2anfKAm6M).

[ABED]

Didn’t Dale Kelly mention in an interview that the thought process behind the dub music for DBZ was to emulate garbage like Batman Beyond?

Did he say Batman Beyond was garbage or are you editorializing? Beyond's electronic and hard rock guitars fit the young and futuristic aesthetic they were going for.

I was editorializing. I hate Batman Beyond and I can’t help but make that known when I bring it up.

Don't hate on anything. It's fine if it's not to your liking but there's no reason to hate a movie or a TV show. I read an article where Tarantino gave that bit of advice to a nascent film critic/filmmaker and I've taken that to heart. There's plenty that I don't like, but none that I hate. There's something that can be learned from even the bad stuff.

[WittyUsername]

Did he say Batman Beyond was garbage or are you editorializing? Beyond's electronic and hard rock guitars fit the young and futuristic aesthetic they were going for.

I was editorializing. I hate Batman Beyond and I can’t help but make that known when I bring it up.

Don't hate on anything. It's fine if it's not to your liking but there's no reason to hate a movie or a TV show. I read an article where Tarantino gave that bit of advice to a nascent film critic/filmmaker and I've taken that to heart. There's plenty that I don't like, but none that I hate. There's something that can be learned from even the bad stuff.

That is good advice. I’m trying to work on it, but old habits die hard.

[Hulk10]

I was editorializing. I hate Batman Beyond and I can’t help but make that known when I bring it up.

Don't hate on anything. It's fine if it's not to your liking but there's no reason to hate a movie or a TV show. I read an article where Tarantino gave that bit of advice to a nascent film critic/filmmaker and I've taken that to heart. There's plenty that I don't like, but none that I hate. There's something that can be learned from even the bad stuff.

That is good advice. I’m trying to work on it, but old habits die hard.

Yeah it is good advice. I often say I hate shows or movies I don't like. But perhaps I should just say I don't like them. Like Underworld Blood Wars I really don't like that film for a number of reasons but I perhaps I shouldn't say I hate it even though I do really, really dislike it. Perhaps hate is a bit of a strong word.

[Noah]

Has anyone honestly made the argument that the dub of Super is worse than the dub of Z? I’ve heard plenty of criticism directed towards the dub of Super, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone make the argument that it’s on the level of the Z dub, let alone worse.

Well, you're not wrong. I believe Funimation were badly influenced by TFS due to the popularity its parody. Super dub is full of made up liners like "Sure, let's go see Yamcha" and other abominations that you could expect from TFS Vegeta not the actual character from the series.

It's shame cause their Kai 1.0 was praised as a redemption for their early days at Z Dub, just throw all that out of the window with their Super dub.

[MasenkoHA]

I feel like Super’s problem, from what I’ve observed, is that it’s trying so damn to cater to different audiences.

There’s the whole pressure to at least give the illusion it’s a faithful dub so the music is kept and the Japanese episode titles are more or less translated ala Kai. And Chris Ayres as Freeza instead of Young.

But you also gotta to appeal to Z dub fans who grew up with the show from Toonami so it’s gotta to talk about power levels and crap and added jokes and lines

And then also have to pander to the crowd who watches the abridged series and probably never saw a single episode of Z dubbed or subbed. Hence we get stuff like Goku’s repugnant comment in Super Broly.

[Scsigs]

I feel like Super’s problem, from what I’ve observed, is that it’s trying so damn to cater to different audiences.

There’s the whole pressure to at least give the illusion it’s a faithful dub so the music is kept and the Japanese episode titles are more or less translated ala Kai. And Chris Ayres as Freeza instead of Young.

But you also gotta to appeal to Z dub fans who grew up with the show from Toonami so it’s gotta to talk about power levels and crap and added jokes and lines

And then also have to pander to the crowd who watches the abridged series and probably never saw a single episode of Z dubbed or subbed. Hence we get stuff like Goku’s repugnant comment in Super Broly.

Except that the scripts are more or less pretty faithful to the originals. People act like the inserted jokes or one-off script changes & adlibs are all the dub is, even though the scripts are actually pretty accurate to the original Japanese ones still. Not as accurate as Kai's, but still accurate. And, most of the jokes or adlibs don't hurt the show overall like the ones in Z did. The scripts don't color the audience's perception of the characters or lore or add in jokes when there's a more serious moment. You can argue that the jokes injected don't work or that there are more than there should be, but DO NOT equate them to the Z dub. That's disingenuous & just wrong.

I've made this point so many times, but no one seems to see when I do.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

I feel like Super’s problem, from what I’ve observed, is that it’s trying so damn to cater to different audiences.

There’s the whole pressure to at least give the illusion it’s a faithful dub so the music is kept and the Japanese episode titles are more or less translated ala Kai. And Chris Ayres as Freeza instead of Young.

But you also gotta to appeal to Z dub fans who grew up with the show from Toonami so it’s gotta to talk about power levels and crap and added jokes and lines

And then also have to pander to the crowd who watches the abridged series and probably never saw a single episode of Z dubbed or subbed. Hence we get stuff like Goku’s repugnant comment in Super Broly.

Except that the scripts are more or less pretty faithful to the originals. People act like the inserted jokes or one-off script changes & adlibs are all the dub is, even though the scripts are actually pretty accurate to the original Japanese ones still. Not as accurate as Kai's, but still accurate. And, most of the jokes or adlibs don't hurt the show overall like the ones in Z did. The scripts don't color the audience's perception of the characters or lore or add in jokes when there's a more serious moment. You can argue that the jokes injected don't work or that there are more than there should be, but DO NOT equate them to the Z dub. That's disingenuous & just wrong.

I've made this point so many times, but no one seems to see when I do.

I seriously don't get it either why people think this, because while some of these jokes and lines may indeed not always be entirely fitting it's nowhere near the absolutely stupid crap FUNi's dub script writers of the time used to insert left right and center, which dumbed the show down to a significant degree that also happened to other concurrent anime series' dubs. Seriously, it honestly shocks me that some fans are claiming the scripts are way off and such when it's not true. Do i think the Super dub is perfect, not 100% no but it's not even close to being comparable to the old '99 Z dub. They actually now have script writers who have a clue when it comes to more or less trying to faithfully adapt the show to our shores, and unlike the old days under Barry Watson and co's direction where the show was being heavily altered based upon what their own interpretation/vision of how DBZ should be presented to the audience they were aiming for. Hence the outdated lingo, replacement music score, cringe worthy one liners and terrible jokes being added into the dialogue which radically changed the series' tone drastically. In the past 20 years FUNi has definitely made vast improvements with the way they produce dubs these days, and actually seeing to it that said dubs maintain a much higher degree of faithfulness to the source as compared to Z when they were a smaller company that hadn't yet begun to come into it's own.

Seriously, they aren't inserting things like "KRILLIN'S IN DA HOUSE!!!!!!!" or other such God awful lines anymore nor changing the meaning of scenes and dialogue based on some different vision of the show versus the way it's truly intended to be.

[Scsigs]

I seriously don't get it either why people think this, because while some of these jokes and lines may indeed not always be entirely fitting it's nowhere near the absolutely stupid crap FUNi's dub script writers of the time used to insert left right and center, which dumbed the show down to a significant degree that also happened to other concurrent anime series' dubs. Seriously, it honestly shocks me that some fans are claiming the scripts are way off and such when it's not true. Do i think the Super dub is perfect, not 100% no but it's not even close to being comparable to the old '99 Z dub. They actually now have script writers who have a clue when it comes to more or less trying to faithfully adapt the show to our shores, and unlike the old days under Barry Watson and co's direction where the show was being heavily altered based upon what their own interpretation/vision of how DBZ should be presented to the audience they were aiming for. Hence the outdated lingo, replacement music score, cringe worthy one liners and terrible jokes being added into the dialogue which radically changed the series' tone drastically. In the past 20 years FUNi has definitely made vast improvements with the way they produce dubs these days, and actually seeing to it that said dubs maintain a much higher degree of faithfulness to the source as compared to Z when they were a smaller company that hadn't yet begun to come into it's own.

Seriously, they aren't inserting things like "KRILLIN'S IN DA HOUSE!!!!!!!" or other such God awful lines anymore nor changing the meaning of scenes and dialogue based on some different vision of the show versus the way it's truly intended to be.

Exactly. I mean, look at this analysis.

I feel like Super’s problem, from what I’ve observed, is that it’s trying so damn to cater to different audiences.

There’s the whole pressure to at least give the illusion it’s a faithful dub so the music is kept and the Japanese episode titles are more or less translated ala Kai. And Chris Ayres as Freeza instead of Young.

But you also gotta to appeal to Z dub fans who grew up with the show from Toonami so it’s gotta to talk about power levels and crap and added jokes and lines.

And then also have to pander to the crowd who watches the abridged series and probably never saw a single episode of Z dubbed or subbed. Hence we get stuff like Goku’s repugnant comment in Super Broly.

Sabat HATES how the Z dub was done in retrospect, as does Schemmel. They've said so themselves in numerous interviews. Why would they wanna repeat those mistakes?

The Super dub feels like they're actually having fun with it as opposed to just being faithful. You can actually see the reasons behind any small changes as opposed to, "Well, we're dubbing this to air for a bunch of dumb kids on Cartoon Network. We can't allow them to know what death is, or treat them with respect, or just let silence on the air for more than 5 seconds, CRANK THAT SHIT, FAULCONER, &, Sabat, adlib some lines over shots of the characters from far away even when we can tell they're not supposed to be talking! Kids need Ritalin if they don't hear anything for more than 5 seconds. Even as we have that Synthy Rock music blaring in the background, talk it up! What? There's a scene after Cell crushes Android 16's head where Gohan doesn't talk & the original music in the scene told the story perfectly? Fuck THAT! We can't license that shit, it's too expensive! Just have him talk, I don't care if the lines make any sense!"

Nonsense like that is what killed the Z dub when I tried to watch it through the home releases. It genuinely disrespects the original intent of the directors & writers in Japan as much as the shitty BR sets disrespect the animators that spent 6-8 weeks drawing & editing together every frame of every episode. Super's doesn't. I genuinely feel that it's just something they keep to very few instances. Considering Super's writing for Goku is infinitely more cringy & inconsistent than some minor dub lines here & there, I'd say at least they're trying to make the show more internally-consistent, even if some people don't feel it works, which you're allowed to feel. Those are legit criticisms over the whole, "it's like the Z dub all over again" crap.
Kai's dub was a lot more like One Piece's dub if you think about it. When they redubbed everything 4Kids did for that show, it was more faithful & internally consistent than 4kids' dub. Kai did the same thing. In fact, Kai actually has some added or changed things in it if you actually analyze it. Super's just feels like them having a good time.

Z dub fans couldn't give a rat's ass if the Faulconer music is used in Super's dub. A small contingent may bitch, but let them. That time has passed. Same goes for Chris Ayres as Frieza. I'm betting Linda Young's glad to not have to constantly record Frieza's dialogue anymore. She was literally just a soundalike for the original Canadian actress anyways. Ayres is better in every way. They kept him on because he's now their usual actor, which is why Daman Mills voice matches HIM instead of Young.

As for the Abridged series comparison, Sabat likes TFS & DBZA, so, yeah, maybe it's influencing some of the humor, but TFS' brand of humor is even more farcical than the changed lines or jokes they may throw in. DBZA is more akin to Rick & Morty in humor, so it's not a bad place to take influence. It's not like they're breaking continuity or consistency within the majority of the episodes. Even THEN, why would they wanna cater to DBZA fans? It's the official dub, not an internet parody. Making the series a farce would only piss off fans than anything, if any of the vitriol I've seen thrown at TFS on this forum is anything to go by, or, hell, even some I've seen on Twitter & other places. Even me. I love TFS, but their brand of humor & writing belongs elsewhere. On top of that, the animators and writers at some points even referenced them, or lest we forget the close-up shot of Popo's eyes when we finally see him again after so long? A blatant reference in the animation is, in my opinion, something more of note than a dub line change that doesn't ruin an episode for just being there.

And, to say a regular viewer of DBZA hasn't checked out the original material is ludicrous. Hell, I never saw more than a few random episodes of Z & only played some of the games before watching Abridged. After seeing their version, I got some of the DVD releases of the shows & started watching Kai because it was the latest series at the time. Without TFS, I wouldn't have checked out the source material or become the dub fanatic I am. That's just not giving TFS credit where it's due.

Have your hang-ups with dub changes. Some of them are stupid, yes, but they don't break the episodes in half or change characters or the stories being told. I have WAY more hang-ups with the original material than the dub, since there's more to pick apart & take issue with there. And it's not because of the Z dub. I never watched that as a kid, so it didn't influence my opinions on the show. Super's writing is inconsistent & Goku's characterization is just bad at points. I just don't understand this. No wonder it's in unpopular opinions. They're opinions that don't make any sense or hold up to any scrutiny.

[ABED]

And, to say a regular viewer of DBZA hasn't checked out the original material is ludicrous. Hell, I never saw more than a few random episodes of Z & only played some of the games before watching Abridged. After seeing their version, I got some of the DVD releases of the shows & started watching Kai because it was the latest series at the time. Without TFS, I wouldn't have checked out the source material or become the dub fanatic I am. That's just not giving TFS credit where it's due.

First, it's not a version of DB, it's a parody. And more important, why would you start with the parody?

[MasenkoHA]

[. And more important, why would you start with the parody?

A lot of people watched the abridged series without ever watching DBZ. Or watch it first then watch Z.

Dragon Ball Z is a 291 episode series which is pretty big commitment for most people. And that’s not getting into watching Dragon Ball first (which people should but most don’t) Dragon Ball Z also ended (in the US) 2003. And I find a lot of anime fans especially shonen/Toonami fans tend to cling to whatever is new.


Whether you agree with people watching a truncated web video parody first or only watching that it is something people do. Just like people skip 153 episodes to watch a sequel series.

[ABED]

But Abridged is a misnomer. It's not Dragon Ball. I don't care how much they don't want to make the commitment. Watching a parody isn't the same as watching the series.

I also fundamentally disagree with people skipping ahead to DBZ unless there was no other way, like in the 90s. Now there's no excuse.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

But Abridged is a misnomer. It's not Dragon Ball. I don't care how much they don't want to make the commitment. Watching a parody isn't the same as watching the series.

I also fundamentally disagree with people skipping ahead to DBZ unless there was no other way, like in the 90s. Now there's no excuse.

Same here, intentionally skipping the original Dragon Ball series is something i don't get why many fans do. Because in doing that you are effectively omitting the first half of Toriyama's story where the characters started from and makes things a lot less clear which happened when FUNi moved over to dubbing DBZ in 1996 after the initial intended plans for DB fell through the previous year for whatever reason thus leaving the rest off to the side until they went back and picked it up again in 2001 and went through to the end. Basically, the result is a lot of gaps and plot holes when things are referenced (including the occasional flashbacks) and if jumping in with Z you don't have a clear context for these events i.e. the revelation of Dr. Gero by Future Trunks as a scientist that worked for the Red Ribbon Army who then continued elsewhere after the army itself was defeated for good by Goku in the original series.

[MasenkoHA]

But Abridged is a misnomer. It's not Dragon Ball. I don't care how much they don't want to make the commitment. Watching a parody isn't the same as watching the series.

I also fundamentally disagree with people skipping ahead to DBZ unless there was no other way, like in the 90s. Now there's no excuse.

Same here, intentionally skipping the original Dragon Ball series is something i don't get why many fans do. Because in doing that you are effectively omitting the first half of Toriyama's story where the characters started from and makes things a lot less clear which happened when FUNi moved over to dubbing DBZ in 1996 after the initial intended plans for DB fell through the previous year for whatever reason thus leaving the rest off to the side until they went back and picked it up again in 2001 and went through to the end. Basically, the result is a lot of gaps and plot holes when things are referenced (including the occasional flashbacks) and if jumping in with Z you don't have a clear context for these events i.e. the revelation of Dr. Gero by Future Trunks as a scientist that worked for the Red Ribbon Army who then continued elsewhere after the army itself was defeated for good by Goku in the original series.

Not helping that the Z dub made some royal fuck ups with the Android saga that they never went back and fixed like:
Gero was leader of the Red Ribbon Army

General Tao, the heart of the Red Ribbon Army

Goku was sent on a quest to find the 7 dragon balls to sharpen his skills and not a personal journey to get his grandpa’s memento

Roshi pretty much not getting a single detail right when going over the history of the martial arts tournament as they applied to the gang.


It’s almost like skipping 140 episodes to get to the “more profitable series” and rewriting shit because you can wasn’t a good idea.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I seriously don't get it either why people think this, because while some of these jokes and lines may indeed not always be entirely fitting it's nowhere near the absolutely stupid crap FUNi's dub script writers of the time used to insert left right and center, which dumbed the show down to a significant degree that also happened to other concurrent anime series' dubs. Seriously, it honestly shocks me that some fans are claiming the scripts are way off and such when it's not true. Do i think the Super dub is perfect, not 100% no but it's not even close to being comparable to the old '99 Z dub. They actually now have script writers who have a clue when it comes to more or less trying to faithfully adapt the show to our shores, and unlike the old days under Barry Watson and co's direction where the show was being heavily altered based upon what their own interpretation/vision of how DBZ should be presented to the audience they were aiming for. Hence the outdated lingo, replacement music score, cringe worthy one liners and terrible jokes being added into the dialogue which radically changed the series' tone drastically. In the past 20 years FUNi has definitely made vast improvements with the way they produce dubs these days, and actually seeing to it that said dubs maintain a much higher degree of faithfulness to the source as compared to Z when they were a smaller company that hadn't yet begun to come into it's own.

Seriously, they aren't inserting things like "KRILLIN'S IN DA HOUSE!!!!!!!" or other such God awful lines anymore nor changing the meaning of scenes and dialogue based on some different vision of the show versus the way it's truly intended to be.

Exactly. I mean, look at this analysis.

I feel like Super’s problem, from what I’ve observed, is that it’s trying so damn to cater to different audiences.

There’s the whole pressure to at least give the illusion it’s a faithful dub so the music is kept and the Japanese episode titles are more or less translated ala Kai. And Chris Ayres as Freeza instead of Young.

But you also gotta to appeal to Z dub fans who grew up with the show from Toonami so it’s gotta to talk about power levels and crap and added jokes and lines.

And then also have to pander to the crowd who watches the abridged series and probably never saw a single episode of Z dubbed or subbed. Hence we get stuff like Goku’s repugnant comment in Super Broly.

Sabat HATES how the Z dub was done in retrospect, as does Schemmel. They've said so themselves in numerous interviews. Why would they wanna repeat those mistakes?

The Super dub feels like they're actually having fun with it as opposed to just being faithful. You can actually see the reasons behind any small changes as opposed to, "Well, we're dubbing this to air for a bunch of dumb kids on Cartoon Network. We can't allow them to know what death is, or treat them with respect, or just let silence on the air for more than 5 seconds, CRANK THAT SHIT, FAULCONER, &, Sabat, adlib some lines over shots of the characters from far away even when we can tell they're not supposed to be talking! Kids need Ritalin if they don't hear anything for more than 5 seconds. Even as we have that Synthy Rock music blaring in the background, talk it up! What? There's a scene after Cell crushes Android 16's head where Gohan doesn't talk & the original music in the scene told the story perfectly? Fuck THAT! We can't license that shit, it's too expensive! Just have him talk, I don't care if the lines make any sense!"

Nonsense like that is what killed the Z dub when I tried to watch it through the home releases. It genuinely disrespects the original intent of the directors & writers in Japan as much as the shitty BR sets disrespect the animators that spent 6-8 weeks drawing & editing together every frame of every episode. Super's doesn't. I genuinely feel that it's just something they keep to very few instances. Considering Super's writing for Goku is infinitely more cringy & inconsistent than some minor dub lines here & there, I'd say at least they're trying to make the show more internally-consistent, even if some people don't feel it works, which you're allowed to feel. Those are legit criticisms over the whole, "it's like the Z dub all over again" crap.
Kai's dub was a lot more like One Piece's dub if you think about it. When they redubbed everything 4Kids did for that show, it was more faithful & internally consistent than 4kids' dub. Kai did the same thing. In fact, Kai actually has some added or changed things in it if you actually analyze it. Super's just feels like them having a good time.

Z dub fans couldn't give a rat's ass if the Faulconer music is used in Super's dub. A small contingent may bitch, but let them. That time has passed. Same goes for Chris Ayres as Frieza. I'm betting Linda Young's glad to not have to constantly record Frieza's dialogue anymore. She was literally just a soundalike for the original Canadian actress anyways. Ayres is better in every way. They kept him on because he's now their usual actor, which is why Daman Mills voice matches HIM instead of Young.

As for the Abridged series comparison, Sabat likes TFS & DBZA, so, yeah, maybe it's influencing some of the humor, but TFS' brand of humor is even more farcical than the changed lines or jokes they may throw in. DBZA is more akin to Rick & Morty in humor, so it's not a bad place to take influence. It's not like they're breaking continuity or consistency within the majority of the episodes. Even THEN, why would they wanna cater to DBZA fans? It's the official dub, not an internet parody. Making the series a farce would only piss off fans than anything, if any of the vitriol I've seen thrown at TFS on this forum is anything to go by, or, hell, even some I've seen on Twitter & other places. Even me. I love TFS, but their brand of humor & writing belongs elsewhere. On top of that, the animators and writers at some points even referenced them, or lest we forget the close-up shot of Popo's eyes when we finally see him again after so long? A blatant reference in the animation is, in my opinion, something more of note than a dub line change that doesn't ruin an episode for just being there.

And, to say a regular viewer of DBZA hasn't checked out the original material is ludicrous. Hell, I never saw more than a few random episodes of Z & only played some of the games before watching Abridged. After seeing their version, I got some of the DVD releases of the shows & started watching Kai because it was the latest series at the time. Without TFS, I wouldn't have checked out the source material or become the dub fanatic I am. That's just not giving TFS credit where it's due.

Have your hang-ups with dub changes. Some of them are stupid, yes, but they don't break the episodes in half or change characters or the stories being told. I have WAY more hang-ups with the original material than the dub, since there's more to pick apart & take issue with there. And it's not because of the Z dub. I never watched that as a kid, so it didn't influence my opinions on the show. Super's writing is inconsistent & Goku's characterization is just bad at points. I just don't understand this. No wonder it's in unpopular opinions. They're opinions that don't make any sense or hold up to any scrutiny.

If I wanted to watch Rick And Morty, I would just fecking watch Rick and goddamn Morty. I dont want that shit anywhere near Dragon Ball even if I like Rick and Morty.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

But Abridged is a misnomer. It's not Dragon Ball. I don't care how much they don't want to make the commitment. Watching a parody isn't the same as watching the series.

I also fundamentally disagree with people skipping ahead to DBZ unless there was no other way, like in the 90s. Now there's no excuse.

Same here, intentionally skipping the original Dragon Ball series is something i don't get why many fans do. Because in doing that you are effectively omitting the first half of Toriyama's story where the characters started from and makes things a lot less clear which happened when FUNi moved over to dubbing DBZ in 1996 after the initial intended plans for DB fell through the previous year for whatever reason thus leaving the rest off to the side until they went back and picked it up again in 2001 and went through to the end. Basically, the result is a lot of gaps and plot holes when things are referenced (including the occasional flashbacks) and if jumping in with Z you don't have a clear context for these events i.e. the revelation of Dr. Gero by Future Trunks as a scientist that worked for the Red Ribbon Army who then continued elsewhere after the army itself was defeated for good by Goku in the original series.

Not helping that the Z dub made some royal fuck ups with the Android saga that they never went back and fixed like:
Gero was leader of the Red Ribbon Army

General Tao, the heart of the Red Ribbon Army

Goku was sent on a quest to find the 7 dragon balls to sharpen his skills and not a personal journey to get his grandpa’s memento

Roshi pretty much not getting a single detail right when going over the history of the martial arts tournament as they applied to the gang.


It’s almost like skipping 140 episodes to get to the “more profitable series” and rewriting shit because you can wasn’t a good idea.

Oh yeah, because FUNi had initially skipped over dubbing the majority of the original series they basically had no knowledge of such details as those and effectively just made up crap on the fly that was not at all correct in the Japanese original. It sucks even more so that they didn't go back and fix those bits because in light of them dubbing the rest of the first series later it makes said re written things even more grevously wrong and glaring.

[WittyUsername]

I guess you can count me in the camp of people who don’t think that the occasional added joke is the worst thing in the world on principle. I can’t say I’m fond of having Hit reference a Dunkin Donuts commercial, but lines like “I forgot my tractor” don’t bother me. As long as the jokes don’t go too far or feel out of character, I’m not against the idea of the scriptwriters having a bit of fun with the script.

I can understand why some people would prefer a near literal translation of the material, but the truth is that a lot of people already watched Super in Japanese. They know what the original scripts were like, so it’s not like the dub of Z, where people were introduced to the series via a bastardized version of it, especially when the dub of Super isn’t as bad the dub of Z.

[ABED]

I guess you can count me in the camp of people who don’t think that the occasional added joke is the worst thing in the world on principle. I can’t say I’m fond of having Hit reference a Dunkin Donuts commercial, but lines like “I forgot my tractor” don’t bother me. As long as the jokes don’t go too far or feel out of character, I’m not against the idea of the scriptwriters having a bit of fun with the script.

I can understand why some people would prefer a near literal translation of the material, but the truth is that a lot of people already watched Super in Japanese. They know what the original scripts were like, so it’s not like the dub of Z, where people were introduced to the series via a bastardized version of it, especially when the dub of Super isn’t as bad the dub of Z.

I'd be willing to bet that you that most people who see Super in America haven't watched in Japanese.

[WittyUsername]

I guess you can count me in the camp of people who don’t think that the occasional added joke is the worst thing in the world on principle. I can’t say I’m fond of having Hit reference a Dunkin Donuts commercial, but lines like “I forgot my tractor” don’t bother me. As long as the jokes don’t go too far or feel out of character, I’m not against the idea of the scriptwriters having a bit of fun with the script.

I can understand why some people would prefer a near literal translation of the material, but the truth is that a lot of people already watched Super in Japanese. They know what the original scripts were like, so it’s not like the dub of Z, where people were introduced to the series via a bastardized version of it, especially when the dub of Super isn’t as bad the dub of Z.

I'd be willing to bet that you that most people who see Super in America haven't watched in Japanese.

A lot of people did watch it in Japanese first. Lots of people were already familiar with characters like Hit and Goku Black, and Ultra Instinct had been a meme from the moment it was introduced in the Japanese version. Hell, the final episode of Super was trending worldwide when it came out back in March 2018. People like MasakoX of TeamFourStar were making videos on an episode by episode basis for the show.

[Scsigs]

And, to say a regular viewer of DBZA hasn't checked out the original material is ludicrous. Hell, I never saw more than a few random episodes of Z & only played some of the games before watching Abridged. After seeing their version, I got some of the DVD releases of the shows & started watching Kai because it was the latest series at the time. Without TFS, I wouldn't have checked out the source material or become the dub fanatic I am. That's just not giving TFS credit where it's due.

First, it's not a version of DB, it's a parody. And more important, why would you start with the parody?

For 1, I said it was a parody. A parody is still a "version" of the material if it's as close as theirs is in terms of using the animation & the material. It's basically a comedic adaptation. That'll still be true when TFS starts producing the series proper with the CGI they're doing the ShortZ with.
2. I technically didn't. What I meant was that. I got more into the franchise with their help. Even then, I've seen lots of parodies before watching the source material for them. I saw Star Trek parodies before watching any Star Trek, same with Star Wars, even if they weren't the same as DBZA. That's like asking someone, "why did you watch the Harry Potter movies before reading the books?" It's because the movies are more readily accessible & available than the books for most people. It's almost exactly the same thing.

Same here, intentionally skipping the original Dragon Ball series is something i don't get why many fans do. Because in doing that you are effectively omitting the first half of Toriyama's story where the characters started from and makes things a lot less clear which happened when FUNi moved over to dubbing DBZ in 1996 after the initial intended plans for DB fell through the previous year for whatever reason thus leaving the rest off to the side until they went back and picked it up again in 2001 and went through to the end. Basically, the result is a lot of gaps and plot holes when things are referenced (including the occasional flashbacks) and if jumping in with Z you don't have a clear context for these events i.e. the revelation of Dr. Gero by Future Trunks as a scientist that worked for the Red Ribbon Army who then continued elsewhere after the army itself was defeated for good by Goku in the original series.

Never seeing DB is a lot like skipping Christopher Eccleston's Doctor from Doctor Who. Never skip Nine. However, I get not seeing it first. Z was shown to Americans first on a large scale & is the most readily accessible version of the series that gets the most marketing & love from the companies that own it. To make another Doctor Who comparison, that's like saying people should go all the way back to 1963's episodes to watch the show from the beginning before watching the most current episodes. For one, that's not the most accessible or affordable way to do so for most. I agree that if people got into DB through Z, they SHOULD go back & watch the original series, but I'm not gonna get mad at them for starting with Z. Z has a bit of a broad strokes approach to it that allows you to go into it with little to no prior knowledge anyways. Plus, there's flashbacks & recaps that fill you in.

Not helping that the Z dub made some royal fuck ups with the Android saga that they never went back and fixed like:
Gero was leader of the Red Ribbon Army

General Tao, the heart of the Red Ribbon Army

Goku was sent on a quest to find the 7 dragon balls to sharpen his skills and not a personal journey to get his grandpa’s memento

Roshi pretty much not getting a single detail right when going over the history of the martial arts tournament as they applied to the gang.

It’s almost like skipping 140 episodes to get to the “more profitable series” and rewriting shit because you can wasn’t a good idea.

Yeah, dubbing stuff out of order & going off the original scripts is NEVER a good idea. It's not like they had much of a choice, though, since the original DB didn't catch on when Harmony Gold had it. Marketing-wise, it made perfect sense at the time, though, since Z was always more successful than DB in a lot of places. It made much more sense to do Z, then do OG DB when they had an audience hungry for more & a stable & successful relationship with CN. Business is always business, no matter what industry.

Oh yeah, because FUNi had initially skipped over dubbing the majority of the original series they basically had no knowledge of such details as those and effectively just made up crap on the fly that was not at all correct in the Japanese original. It sucks even more so that they didn't go back and fix those bits because in light of them dubbing the rest of the first series later it makes said re written things even more grievously wrong and glaring.

Which is why I'm glad they dubbed Kai!

If I wanted to watch Rick And Morty, I would just fecking watch Rick and goddamn Morty. I don't want that shit anywhere near Dragon Ball even if I like Rick and Morty.

You misunderstood what I was saying entirely, but ok.

That actually reminded me, though, of back in 2017 when Rick & Morty's season 3 premiere happened on April 1st & SO MANY people got pissed at it for skipping over the Samurai Jack & DB Super episode premieres because they repeated it for 3 hours from 9PM-12PM. I found that EXTREMELY funny!

I guess you can count me in the camp of people who don’t think that the occasional added joke is the worst thing in the world on principle. I can’t say I’m fond of having Hit reference a Dunkin Donuts commercial, but lines like “I forgot my tractor” don’t bother me. As long as the jokes don’t go too far or feel out of character, I’m not against the idea of the scriptwriters having a bit of fun with the script.

I can understand why some people would prefer a near literal translation of the material, but the truth is that a lot of people already watched Super in Japanese. They know what the original scripts were like, so it’s not like the dub of Z, where people were introduced to the series via a bastardized version of it, especially when the dub of Super isn’t as bad the dub of Z.

Exactly. A literal translation isn't FUNi's style anyways. Even with some of their MOST accurate dubs like One Piece, they take SOME liberties. Like, the lines are extremely accurate to what's said in Japanese, but they try to match the syllables to the lipflaps as opposed to the Japanese, which approximate how many lipflaps there are & the timings of the lines, but the actors & ADR directors don't actually give a single shit to have the dialogue match up with what's on screen most of the time. I agree that some of the jokes or changed lines don't work. It's VERY hit or miss, but I don't think it ruins the show, considering that's the ENTIRE show. There are some really great parts of Super. There are also some really shit parts. The dub is no different. Even if those slightly changed lines weren't in the dub, the show would still be of a very mixed quality, no doubt.

I'd be willing to bet that you that most people who see Super in America haven't watched in Japanese.[/quote]
The only people who actually watch DB in Japanese outside of Japan that have the option are either people who prefer it that way (which are a very small amount of the English fanbase, let's be honest here), or people who want to see the episodes as quickly as possible. DB is one of the very few anime franchises still around that existed int he time before official subs simulcasted on streaming platforms existed. Super was the first series in DB history that became part of that way of distributing the show. Hell, the other series aren't available on Crunchyroll subbed, only FUNi's streaming platform or the DVDs, so I'd be VERY surprised if most people would even think to switch the audio language to Japanese on those. The only really terrible dub of any DB series is Z anyways, since DB & GT got better dubs by comparison & Kai was the first truly great dub of a DB series & Super's is very close to Kai's in quality.
As for Super, I bet some people watched the milestone episodes or the episodes that blew up in Japanese, but I'm willing to bet more people than not waited for the dub. That was me, all right.

A lot of people did watch it in Japanese first. Lots of people were already familiar with characters like Hit and Goku Black, and Ultra Instinct had been a meme from the moment it was introduced in the Japanese version. Hell, the final episode of Super was trending worldwide when it came out back in March 2018. People like MasakoX of TeamFourStar were making videos on an episode by episode basis for the show.

I think you're confusing marketing, watching clips online, & word of mouth for "people watching an entire show in Japanese." Like, I don't believe I have to remind anyone here that many anime sites or sites that reviewed anime or social media accounts of fans spread what happened in Super right after it happened & clips were always readily uploaded to YouTube right after by fans. Not only this, but the video games, Xenoverse 2 mostly, had characters appearing months to A YEAR before they would appear in the show's dub with X2 adapting the arcs into it as DLC. Milestone episodes were definitely in a lot of people's watch lists, particularly the last episode, & I'm willing to be more people than usual bothered to watch Super in Japanese that didn't before, but I'm more willing to bet even more people waited for the dub to watch the rest of the episodes.