Complaint regarding Naruto (comparison with DB filler)

B-kun · Post by **B-kun** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:18 pm

... ALAS. Thanks, shall fix. >>;;

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:05 pm

Yeah, I didn't say they had good CGI back then. I was more refering to if they could have had the CGI capabilities of today.

And am very well aware of when the series started and when each movie was released, thank you.

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:35 pm

Dayspring wrote:Was movie 13 also in '95?

"Premiere Date: 15 July 1995
(Toei Anime Fair)"

http://www.daizex.com/guides/movie_guide/

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:44 pm

DBW wrote:
Dayspring wrote:Was movie 13 also in '95?
"Premiere Date: 15 July 1995
(Toei Anime Fair)"

http://www.daizex.com/guides/movie_guide/

Ah... I was just seeing if you all knew the site as well as I did...n't.

SonGokuGT · Post by **SonGokuGT** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:00 pm

Although the Naruto situation is getting a bit ridiculous, from what I've heard, it's still getting great ratings in Japan. I wish they would move on to the manga's "Part 2" and squeeze in some filler there.

But anyways, that's enought off-topic for me... I'm also frustrated about it... Just needed to let it out.

Anyways, I think it's cool to have new adventures instead of repeats. Even if it's as tedious as the Garlic Jr. Saga.

DB_Fan · Post by **DB_Fan** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:05 pm

Dayspring wrote:
DB_Fan wrote:
B-kun wrote:Duo, movie 12 came out around, what, 97-ish? DB started way back in 86. Can you imagine what the CG would've been like then?
Movie 12 came in 1995. GT ended in 1997.
Was movie 13 also in '95?

Yes

Vhanos · Post by **Vhanos** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:23 pm

Bringing new life to this thread. Don't worry, I do have more to add to this and won't stray away from Dragon Ball being involved.

The filler situation with Naruto is extremely pathetic. It's been like two years now since they were on the main storyline. Not just Naruto but Bleach too. Bleach has spent an entire year to get out of its bounto arch. Do you know what? They are both done in the same studio, studio Pierott. Studio Pierott is not that good with doing fillers. Studio Toei did an excellent job of stretching the Dragon Ball series out. One Piece, also done by Toei, is spaced out too. Do you see something here now? I think it has to do with the studio. It depends on how the studio does fillers. Studio Toei is known for fillers (does Sailor Moon ring a bell too?).

Here's what I think the problem is. Dragon Ball fillers are done within the episodes. The Naruto, and Bleach's, fillers are not done within the episode. Actually, they are, but not nearly enough like Dragon Balls. Like pointed out by another poster Naruto tried to be as fillerless as possible. There is something funny to me. On another site I've seen a couple people say that Dragon Ball is fillerless. Which I think they are dead wrong. If anyone has truely read the Dragon Ball manga then they will know that Dragon Ball is chalk full of fillers. Every episode had fillers. The sad thing is everyone who doesn't read manga thinks that all anime fillers are like Naruto and Bleach's. I get annoyed everytime I see someone asking when the Naruto fillers or the Bleach fillers are going to be over.

IMO the way the Dragon Ball fillers were done is how fillers should really be done. Practically Dragon Ball had its share of filler archs too. After the Baba tournament they showed events between the three years where Goku went off to train before the 22nd world martial arts tournament. It was 5 episodes if I'm correct. Then after the 23rd world martial arts tournament there was 5 fillers episodes showing how Goku and Chichi got married. After the Frieza saga there was Garlic Jr. saga which was 10 episodes. After the Cell saga there was the afterlife tournament and Goku fighting Pikkon in the end which was 5 episodes. But my god, in Naruto and Bleach they are too long.

What I think is also a problem (which I might have already said) is that Naruto and Bleach has to rely on an entire episode to do a filler. Or they don't alter scenes well enough to give more filler material to add later on to other scenes ahead and intertwine with the canon ones. Another is they don't put add-on scenes between canon scenes enough. Sometimes they do but not a lot them. Dragon Ball doesn't have to use an entire episode of filler. They can make parts of the episode be filler. Half the episodes can be filler or a quarter of the episode can be filler. One Piece too, but not great like Dragon Ball's. Naruto and Bleach? Not much. They can make parts of their episodes be fillers too but not greatly much. If they don't fix those things I mentioned then I won't be surprised to see them make long packs of filler episodes again.

After reading most of the manga for Dragon Ball and seeing the disaster with two other anime series I am grateful with the way Toei did the fillers with the Dragon Ball. I think 85% of them are good. I have no problem. The 15% goes to the ones that didn't make sense, made a plot hole in the series, or just seemed weird. Besides that, everything was timed and planned nicely.

Call me if anyone thinks they agree with anything I said.

Sun_Wukong · Post by **Sun_Wukong** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:28 pm

Japan doesnt take season breaks like the US does, end of discussion.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:36 pm

I agree, to a good extent, which what Vhanos said. Dragonball (Z) had some annoying fillers, but for the most part they are tolerable or even enjoyable as long as you have a bit of patience.

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:38 pm

Yeah, I like how people are like LOLOL DRAG ON BALL Z and then watch Naruto for two seasons.

Mr.Piccolo · Post by **Mr.Piccolo** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:43 pm

mAcChaos wrote:Yeah, I like how people are like LOLOL DRAG ON BALL Z and then watch Naruto for two seasons.

That's one of the worst things that I've ever read regarding Dragonball and its reputation on dragging out episodes. Yes, the series is fairly older compared to what's out and now and it isn't really fair to judge Naruto because it isn't finished yet but from the episodes that I've actually seen, Naruto is far from perfect. Every episode I've seen has at least one flashback and half of the fight scenes include someone explaining what move they did a minute ago..

*I am not responsible if this turns out like that Naruto comparison thread from before <.<; What a phenomenal necropost this is...
-Rick

Mystery Person X · Post by **Mystery Person X** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:07 am

Basically I disagree completely.

Vhanos wrote:Here's what I think the problem is. Dragon Ball fillers are done within the episodes. The Naruto, and Bleach's, fillers are not done within the episode. Actually, they are, but not nearly enough like Dragon Balls. Like pointed out by another poster Naruto tried to be as fillerless as possible.

First of all, I think it's a much better idea to have a big block of filler that you can just ignore than to have all of the story episodes weighed down by 10-15 minutes of filler. Sure, it's annoying that Naruto has been crap for two years, but in years to come it'll mean the more important parts of the series are better and the filler can just be ignored completely. With DBZ, we're stuck with an anime that you can only watch if you're prepared to sit through tons of irrelevant crap.

Secondly, the plot episodes of Naruto had plenty of filler in them. It was just (a) not done to such an extreme and (b) not done so poorly as in DBZ. Naruto's pacing is slow, and there are too many flashbacks, but at least the fights tend to be over in a few episodes, and without tons of random cutaways to the wacky adventures of whoever's-not-involved-in-this-fight.

They really should have planned better though, to prevent this ridiculous situation of filler for two solid years (thankfully ending in about 3 weeks). They should have included more short filler arcs as the series was going along, and for this inevitable mass of filler they should have come up with a proper new villain and an actual ongoing storyline. These repetitive "let's go on a mission in the Hidden Village of Arbitrary Crap" mini-arcs are the most creatively bankrupt thing they could possibly have done with the series.

Undercooked Sausage · Post by **Undercooked Sausage** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:26 am

I also prefer Naruto's system. Imagine how cool it would've been without cuts to Chi-Chi, Kame House, or Bulma bitching about being on Namek during the Saiyan/Freeza/Cell arcs. We could've even had a believable 5 minute Freeza battle like in the manga.

Filler blocks? Just skip over them, which unfortunately is what a lot of people tend to do, and as such, shows will get cancelled. (R.I.P. Kenshin). So DBZ's system definitely had it's advantages, but in the long run, a Naruto-esque system would've been preferred.

Or even better, do what One Piece does and just not produce as many episodes.

linkdude20002001 · Post by **linkdude20002001** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 4:35 am

Jerseymilk wrote:It's extremely rare in Japan for a series to even be repeated a second time around. Basically as soon as a series is over, there's another one all set to take it's place. It's also rare for an anime series to have more than one season, which shows how popular DB was.

Inuyasha is a good example of a series being repeated in Japan. And didn't Dragon Ball get repeated in Japan, too?

Sebastian (SB) · Post by **Sebastian (SB)** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:44 am

For those of you who can't spell it's Studio Pierrot. Thanks

Yes, it seems Pierrot has gone downhill with Naruto & Bleach. Despite what most of you say they've done an excellent job with Yu Yu Hakusho & HunterxHunter. I also find it amazing that HxH (excluding the last 2 OVAs) is the only recent past anime that had hand drawn artwork & none of this digital & filler bastardization crap that Pierrot has been giving us lately. To me it looks like Togashi-san is (or actually was) keeping a good eye on them regarding both of his anime adaptations.

I really hope he gets better from his health conditions. The man's a talented artist & storyteller.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:59 am

linkdude20002001 wrote:
Jerseymilk wrote:It's extremely rare in Japan for a series to even be repeated a second time around. Basically as soon as a series is over, there's another one all set to take it's place. It's also rare for an anime series to have more than one season, which shows how popular DB was.
Inuyasha is a good example of a series being repeated in Japan. And didn't Dragon Ball get repeated in Japan, too?

Note that I said "rarely", not "every single time". Coincidentally, last week's Answerman column on ANN had this very subject discussed.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2007-01-12

Sun_Wukong · Post by **Sun_Wukong** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:10 pm

linkdude20002001 wrote:
Inuyasha is a good example of a series being repeated in Japan. And didn't Dragon Ball get repeated in Japan, too?

Wow, now there's a series that pretty much got destroyed by filler.

aarondirebear · Post by **aarondirebear** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:47 pm

Magnaboss wrote:
Duo wrote:The Dragonball / Z Filler Situation could have been avoided if Toriyama-Sama had waited until he was about 15 Volumes in, then he probably could have held a good enough lead to where Toei would have caught up just near the end...Thus would have spawned a much better adaptation/interpretation of the Manga and genuinly better product.

Though, it's a pity they didn't have CGI until Movie 12, cuz' then the Anime would have looked MUCH better.
CG only looks as good as the budget that allows it and the people who use it. It would have just meant DBZ might have looked a little cleaner, but overall, earlier CG-mixed TV anime looks pretty nasty anyway :/

Generally, when a series is super popular, you want to adapt it straight away, otherwise you open yourself up to bidding more and more or possibly loosing the contract to it to another studio.

I'd rather not imagine Tenshinhan's arm ripping off with Elfen Lied graphicness, which is exactly what would have happened if they'd used all these modern animation techniques >_<

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 4:55 pm

Sun_Wukong wrote:
linkdude20002001 wrote:
Inuyasha is a good example of a series being repeated in Japan. And didn't Dragon Ball get repeated in Japan, too?
Wow, now there's a series that pretty much got destroyed by filler.

I heard it was because they wanted a free timeslot for Gundam Seed Destiny.

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 5:21 pm

I remember reading here recently that the Dragon Ball anime was the most accurate to the manga as any other anime serie. Can this be varified?

Kanzenshuu

Complaint regarding Naruto (comparison with DB filler)

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