Viz's Print Edition of the "Full Colour Comics" Discussion

[B]

I can live if Popo's lips are the only things edited; especially since this is the first time ever they've never screwed with the sound effects, which to me are a part of the art itself.

Give me my tits and my dicks and my guns.

Really? You have a problem with the sound effects being translated? Their purpose is to tell the reader what the things sound like... You might as well argue that the Japanese text is also part of the art.

Except, save for scant instances, Toriyama didn't draw the text. He obviously had to draw sound effects.

[rereboy]

I can live if Popo's lips are the only things edited; especially since this is the first time ever they've never screwed with the sound effects, which to me are a part of the art itself.

Give me my tits and my dicks and my guns.

Really? You have a problem with the sound effects being translated? Their purpose is to tell the reader what the things sound like... You might as well argue that the Japanese text is also part of the art.

Except, save for scant instances, Toriyama didn't draw the text. He obviously had to draw sound effects.

Yeah, so? He probably drew text in building and signs too (many times). Is it not text because he did it? Aren't we meant to understand it even if he was the one to make it?

Like I said, it seems over-zealous to me. I barely see any difference between that and defending that all the text and dialog should be kept as the original and the translation should only be in footnotes or in a glossary at the end.

I don't agree. The argument of keeping the artwork unedited definitely applies here. The artwork does indeed have to be redrawn when replacing the sound effects, albeit slightly.

Yet, by changing the japanese text and dialog (that was thought up by the author) to english, we are also not seeing a 100% accurate representation of the manga as it appeared originally...

Translations and adaption change stuff. There's no going around that. There's no point in being so zealous about it being as close as the original as possible that it actually makes the reading of it harder or impractical, like its the case with the sound effects.

At most you could argue that you prefer the unaltered sound effects because you never pay attention to the sound effects and so, them being translated or not, doesn't bother you. Other than that, I don't agree at all.

[Duo]

There's a thing called being overzealous, and criticizing the translation of the sound effects right on the corresponding page qualifies, IMO.

I don't agree. The argument of keeping the artwork unedited definitely applies here. The artwork does indeed have to be redrawn when replacing the sound effects, albeit slightly.

I get both sides of the argument, but I'll admit I lean more towards the side that prefers keeping everything unedited. It's one reason why I'm so excited for this release. I prefer having the sound effects translated in-between panels over the use of a glossary, though. Really, in this age of digital purchases, there's no reason Viz can't offer both a translated and un-translated version on their site for purchase.

This.

I've always found this issue a bit difficult to address, because I agree with having the art preserved, but I also don't get anything out of sfx written in Japanese. I think another poster mentioned that the footnotes should be on the same page as the sound effect, and I think that's probably the best solution. Sticking them in the back of the volume irks the crap out of me.

[UltimateHammerBro]

I've never seen an example of sound effects translated at the back of the volume, and honestly, I think it's a horrible idea.
I always favour them being redrawn or translated in the same panel (not at the bottom of the page).

Regarding what people say of "not altering art" and all that, I've chuckled a bit when someone's said "Toriyama may have written text" and all that. Let's take the example a bit farther: isn't hand-made lettering a form of "art" itself? I own many translated versions of American comics from the time they were hand-lettered. The translation is sometimes hand-written, sometimes digital. Shouldn't the original English lettering be preserved and the translation for all the dialogue appear in footnotes?

And that's how an argument can be taken too far

[B]

Really? You have a problem with the sound effects being translated? Their purpose is to tell the reader what the things sound like... You might as well argue that the Japanese text is also part of the art.

Except, save for scant instances, Toriyama didn't draw the text. He obviously had to draw sound effects.

Yeah, so?

So... sound effects are lines drawn by the author himself, and text was applied with a font. We've seen manuscripts where Toriyama would write dialog in the text bubbles, but are you going to pick up a volume of the manga, look at a speech bubble and tell me it was hand-written?

[rereboy]

So... sound effects are lines drawn by the author himself, and text was applied with a font. We've seen manuscripts where Toriyama would write dialog in the text bubbles, but are you going to pick up a volume of the manga, look at a speech bubble and tell me it was hand-written?

So, maybe read the rest of my post and the one following that. It pretty much has my answer to what you just said.

And I fully agree with what UltimateHammerBro just said. When you really think about it its just silly.

[dbboxkaifan]

Here are some photos.

Size comparison between Viz releases (tankoubon, VizBig, and Full Color:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Just how tall (centimetres or inches) is the Colour Manga?

I'm afraid they are.

Spoiler:

That looks like a bad imitation of Mister Popo, so disappointing they decided to censor him.

[IAmTheMilkMan]

And if Popo's lips are censored, then forget it.

I'm afraid they are.

Spoiler:

Welp... forget it.

Sorry, but if I were going to buy this, the art, at least, would have to remain unaltered. I don't care about the sound effects, and the odd translation of Piccolo doesn't bother me as much as censored dialog does; I would be able to tolerate it as long as Roshi remained a big ol' pervert, but they changed that, too. So... stuff 'em. I'll take my business elsewhere. That's just how I feel.

The chance of a new translation and the uncensoring of certain things that have always been censored in every release I've ever seen were slim, but that doesn't stop this from being the best quality release that we have received so far.

Popo's lips were uncensored in the original comic books that Viz released, along with all of the dialog. I don't know if they started censoring the comics at some point, but the first printings of Part One, at least, were completely uncensored (as far as I could tell). As such, I would say that those comics are actually the best quality release that we have received thus far.

[rereboy]

Popo's lips were uncensored in the original comic books that Viz released, along with all of the dialog. I don't know if they started censoring the comics at some point, but the first printings of Part One, at least, were completely uncensored (as far as I could tell). As such, I would say that those comics are actually the best quality release that we have received thus far.

No, that's not true at all... They were never fully uncensored at all. If you want proof just look at Oolong's thought bubble imagining a women's boobs in the chapter where he appears. You will notice that she has no nipples, while the original had nipples. That was NEVER printed uncensored, along with other stuff. So, I believe you are ill-informed.

Also, who cares if Mr. Popo's lips are uncensored or not? Exactly why is that so important? I understand the principle of wanting everything uncensored, but to the point of shunning a spectacular release like this seems to be? That I don't get at all... How can you ever enjoy anything if things like that spoil a release for you, jeez...

[Super Sonic]

IAmTheMilkMan, are you a European? Wondering as it might be why you're not aware why that was changed.

And from what I'm hearing they didn't translate the sound effects. Why? Never liked that as I would like to know what the sound is without looking at some thing in the back.

[IAmTheMilkMan]

Popo's lips were uncensored in the original comic books that Viz released, along with all of the dialog. I don't know if they started censoring the comics at some point, but the first printings of Part One, at least, were completely uncensored (as far as I could tell). As such, I would say that those comics are actually the best quality release that we have received thus far.

No, that's not true at all... They were never fully uncensored at all. If you want proof just look at Oolong's thought bubble imagining a women's boobs in the chapter where he appears. You will notice that she has no nipples, while the original had nipples. That was NEVER printed uncensored, along with other stuff. So, I believe you are ill-informed.

Sorry, I was referring specifically to Part One of the Z portion of the series, not the original series, I should have specified. However, I did say "as far as I could tell", implying that I could have been wrong. But, again, those first Part One printings of the Z portion appear to be uncensored (not much to censor, really). So allow me to clarify: I would say that those first printings of Part One of the Z portion of the comics are actually the best quality release that we have received thus far for that portion of the series.

IAmTheMilkMan, are you a European? Wondering as it might be why you're not aware why that was changed.

No, I am not European. I am fully aware of why Popo's lips were altered, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with the change.

Listen, you can buy them if you want to, it's no sweat off my back. I'm not trying to burn down Viz headquarters, I'm simply stating why I won't be buying it, myself, as I have a few issues with the release. If those issues don't bother you, more power to you and I hope you enjoy it.

[Mewzard]

Popo's lips were uncensored in the original comic books that Viz released, along with all of the dialog. I don't know if they started censoring the comics at some point, but the first printings of Part One, at least, were completely uncensored (as far as I could tell). As such, I would say that those comics are actually the best quality release that we have received thus far.

No, that's not true at all... They were never fully uncensored at all. If you want proof just look at Oolong's thought bubble imagining a women's boobs in the chapter where he appears. You will notice that she has no nipples, while the original had nipples. That was NEVER printed uncensored, along with other stuff. So, I believe you are ill-informed.

Also, who cares if Mr. Popo's lips are uncensored or not? Exactly why is that so important? I understand the principle of wanting everything uncensored, but to the point of shunning a spectacular release like this seems to be? That I don't get at all... How can you ever enjoy anything if things like that spoil a release for you, jeez...

I looked at that scene with Oolong uncensored and not and...I could barely notice a difference. It looks more like some remnants of a layout not well cleaned or accidental bits of ink than actual nipples. And no other instance of nipples is censored in that first run of the SJ release(including the full on shot of Bulma from Baba's Tournament). Comparing that scene to two tiny ink dots...I have my doubts Viz even thought it was more than a stain on the art.

As for Popo's lips...I'm sorry, but after the complaints received back in the day...that's never getting fixed. None of the rest of the art's been touched in the Full Color run by Viz as far as I can tell...but that's not happening.

If you're waiting for a release where it will be uncensored...you'll be waiting a lifetime. Viz is not going to change it back, not for Dragon Ball of all things. A lower selling, but more artistic title where a majority of the purchasers want artistic integrity kept at its highest? Sure, Tezuka Production hands out a disclaimer to throw in English copies of Tezuka's manga released over here so it can easily be done uncensored.

But Dragon Ball's their commercial baby, and quite frankly, I'm happy to be getting it as uncensored as we are. Outside of lacking a new translation, it's as good as we could possibly get.

Also, just saw these tweets from Viz:

VIZ Media ‏@VIZMedia Jan 24

@M4RC0KuN It's bigger than the VIZBIG editions. It's closer to an American graphic novel's size. I'll post pics later.

VIZ Media ‏@VIZMedia Jan 24

@Chaosleo815Cody The other full color volumes of the Saiyan Arc will be coming out on 4/1 and 6/3.

[rereboy]

...

Those other situations show nudity but only the Oolong scene actually explicitly shows a sexual situation ("puff-puffing" the boobs) so its not the same thing. I highly doubt that its a mistake. I really don't see how they would confuse her nipples with something else.

Spoiler:

Fan translation

[TheDevilsCorpse]

You know, I could understand not wanting to alter the art by translating the sound effects in the original black and white manga. It's a valid enough reason in my opinion.

For the Full Color manga though, you're just not going to get unaltered art, even if you leave the sound effects alone. It was already altered during the coloring process, and that's not even trying to get into the potential argument about just adding the color itself. In the cases where the parts of the original image that were inked in black are colored, new lines have been added to maintain the details of the area instead of just having a blob.

[eledoremassis02]

When I got the vizbigs and 3-in-1s I thought I was not gonna like the translated sound effects because the other manga I have didnt have them. But they did not bother me at all. Even Popos censoring didnt bother me.

However, I do wonder, if the sound effects are apart of the art, how did they remove them to translate?

Also, I'm not sure about the glossary of sound effects, I think little translations under the sound effects might have been better?

[Mewzard]

Well, it's a little easier to edit black and white art than color art, especially if the artist takes advantage of the white-space. Editing Full Color Dragon Ball was probably just not worth the effort (minus Popo's lips, because like I said, Viz is likely never backing down on that one).

Hey, if effort's an excuse, I'll take laziness for art without past censorships of violence and what not.

[dbboxkaifan]

Well, it's a little easier to edit black and white art than color art, especially if the artist takes advantage of the white-space. Editing Full Color Dragon Ball was probably just not worth the effort (minus Popo's lips, because like I said, Viz is likely never backing down on that one).

Hey, if effort's an excuse, I'll take laziness for art without past censorships of violence and what not.

Regarding Mr. Popo's mouth it just looks like someone made a pencil scratch rather than an actual mouth. They could've recoloured it at least.

[testing223]

Speaking of Viz, what's the current status of Jaco the Galactic Patrolman?

Is there a way to buy the series in English?

Is it coming out in that rumored bundled form in March?

[Mewzard]

Speaking of Viz, what's the current status of Jaco the Galactic Patrolman?

Is there a way to buy the series in English?

Is it coming out in that rumored bundled form in March?

They've got the translations done, they're probably just waiting for Japan to put out the volume, I imagine.

[mikezilla2]

so are these uncut ?