Would Z have been as successful on US TV if JPN BGM was kept

[Kamiccolo9]

Let me just tell you, Youtube proves how much people like Faulconer and shit on Kai....

YouTube represents a very small minority of fans. They hardly represent a general consensus.

Youtube is one of the largest, most popular sites in the history of the internet and the most viewed Dragon Ball related video has about 30 million views or something, i'm pretty sure it represents a large percentage of fans. This site, which only has a few hundred members, represents a small minority of fans.

This site has over 6,500 members, not "a few hundred," the number of views is irrelevant as it doesn't take into consideration multiple views by the same person, and I'd imagine that the vast majority of casual fans are not active in discussion about the series online anyway.

[Kakacarrottop]

Given the level of censorship and cheese the show was going through at the time, I'm not sure that Kikuchi's music would've fit all that well with Funimation/Saban's DBZ.

Heck even the Levy score in that dub didn't fit sometimes because of how cheesy the dialogue was.

Just watch this clip for example, Nappa's childish, jokey diagloue and the dark music playing in the background don't fit together very well.

[OWmyDragonBallz]

I don't think it would have worked so well, because the US got into Dragon Ball quite late. But I don't know if music is enough to impact the success or failure of a product.
There's a reason why, whether it's Funimation or Toei, they thought "wow, the music has to be replaced by something more suitable for today": Kikuchi's BGM sounds old, too old.
It's like "would the new Mario games work if you copy-pasted the NES tune from the first Mario game as-is, without reorchestration?". Nostalgic fans would be happy, others would not be.

Kikuchi sounds stripped, flat, it mostly sounds like midi trying to be orchestra and recorded on tape, it's very rare to have music that can take you out of the experience because it sounds ridiculously like the 30s or something. Basically, the sound itself sounds old and poor, and that's the problem because the composition itself is legendary.
Basically, even though I enjoy all Japanese scores since then, I have to wonder: why hasn't Toei simply re-recorded Kikuchi's tracks with better sound from nowadays' standards?

The sound is atrocious, dated, like an old tape playing flat instruments, but the composition is legendary and has become so for a reason and is already "owned" by Toei.
Toei would likely have much less to pay if they chose to pay a re-orchestration rather than pay a new composer to make new tracks (which is necessary for a movie but not for a remaster like Kai).
If Kikuchi's tracks were re-recorded in better, more dynamic, more striking sound quality (let's go for a full symphonic orchestra), everyone would be on board, as we would have compositions that are inspiring and emotional, AND a sound quality that has nothing to envy to big budget movies/games.

That being said, I'm quite happy with new tracks from new composers, so I'm not complaining.
But that really doesn't make a sense how a simple re-recording would be a much safer, money-saving and fan-satisfying solution that would get rid of the one and only problem: it all sounds OLD and flat. Just make it new and striking again, problem solved.

You do realize that TOEI tossed their master audio after the original run of the show and that's why when you listen to the Japanese audio on any release, it sounds plugged. In any case, the broadcast audio sounds really great. You should check out the thread with Kei and AnimeMaakuo! They plan to let Christopher Sabat use it when he's able to come back

it sounds ridiculously like the 30s or something.

Wait, what? . How does it sound like the 1930's?

[Puto]

The audio quality sounds just fine on the OSTs, for what it's worth.

[Bullza]

Let me just tell you, Youtube proves how much people like Faulconer and shit on Kai....

YouTube represents a very small minority of fans. They hardly represent a general consensus.

Youtube is one of the largest, most popular sites in the history of the internet and the most viewed Dragon Ball related video has about 30 million views or something, i'm pretty sure it represents a large percentage of fans. This site, which only has a few hundred members, represents a small minority of fans.

Exactly the fanbase on here is just a tiny speck compared to the amount of fans on youtube and who can be seen in the comments. I've seen countless people praise the Faulconer score while shitting on the Kikuchi score.

I've also seen a vast amount of people hate on Goku's Japanese voice as well, probably more so for this one.

[Valerius Dover]

You can't praise something that doesn't exist. Nobody talks about an American soundtrack for Naruto, because there isn't one. Nobody mentions a US score for Yu Yu Hakusho, because it does not exist. For DBZ and DBGT, however, American rescores do exist, and give off varying viewpoints.

[Super Sonic]

It's kind of a "who knows" kind of deal on how folks say some things might've been better in the past or not. With some other older anime especially, one wonders how it would've been, but you have to factor other things on how things were done in the past. For example, the Sailor Moon movies which had vhs dub releases that had the music from the Dic dub on them and were edited (these were what aired on Toonami) as well as the dvd releases that only had the Japanese original score. The dub voices fit more with the old dub score on the vhs than they did with the Japanese music. Not to mention the insert songs in the series that even guys who didn't like the old dub say they liked the insert songs made for it.

[SSJGFrieza]

Kai dub with Faulconer's music would have been perfect.

[dbzfan7]

Of course it'd have been successful still. Probably about the same. Like others have said, practically every country kept the original score, and was successful.

[Blade]

I've only got anecdotal evidence to go on from this, but I recall distinctly that in the UK when we went from the Westwood Dub with the replacement score (or more succinctly, re-appropriated Megaman music), to the Blue Water dubs of Dragonball GT and Dragonball with the original background music, a number of people not previously versed in the Japanese original were turned off by the sudden change in musical tone and style.

Now, I'm not saying that's there's a link between popularity and Western replacement scores, but what is fairly apparent is that there's a sort of a cognitive dissonance when viewers are initially versed in one style of scoring and then suddenly submerged into the other, which appears to work both ways.

I think the problem from a contemporary perspective is increased somewhat, in that circa 2015 the replacement music has not aged well, and sounds very dated to modern ears. At the time, though, arguably in context to the music on animated material being aired at the time alongside Dragonball, this wasn't necessarily the case and it didn't really go against the grain, whereas the original background score could be, at that time, both considered stylistically outdated and let down by an old-school production aesthetic that has fallen foul of degraded quality due to poor handling of master tapes on Toei's behalf.

I'd like to think that I'm pretty objective about all of the Dragonball scores I've been subjected to, and I don't really harbor any resentment towards any of them. I think the issue is difficult in that for many people, the notion of a replacement score alone, regardless of musical style, is an abhorrent or unnecessary practice, and therefore by connotation may be considered disrespectful to the original version. I've always made the case that English dubbed Dragonball Z should always be viewed as an adaptation of the original as opposed to a literal translation, which the modern dub of Kai is more along the lines of. Of course, it's hard to argue if the changes were necessary, as one may struggle to argue objectively about any creative decision, thus is the subjective nature of the arts, but essentially the changes made contributed to the thing that has become the definitive version of Dragonball Z to a lot of people, and I have a hard time finding fault with that. Would Dragonball Z have been as successful in English markets without the localisation and replacement score? We will never truly know, but what can at least be said is that the changes didn't have any sort of negative effect, and are still celebrated by a lot of people even today.

[VegettoEX]

Exactly the fanbase on here is just a tiny speck compared to the amount of fans on youtube and who can be seen in the comments.

Who themselves are but a sub-set of the rest of the fans throughout the rest of the world speaking languages and making comments you can't read.

Let's not pretend that YouTube discourse has any place in a conversation about statistical significance.

[ShinGaijin]

The sound is atrocious, dated, like an old tape playing flat instruments, but the composition is legendary and has become so for a reason and is already "owned" by Toei.

Yeah, it sounds muffled, but mainly because of technical reasons (crappy optical track).Even in the English Dub with the original Japanese score (Orange Bricks or BD Seasons Sets), the music is muffled and seems dated, Toei obviously gave bad ME tracks to foreigner rightholders.

As far as I know, the only version with a decent sound quality is the H.K Cantonese dub :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7quqnZUJW7g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEhRIClqZJU

Shunsuke Kikuchi in its full glory !

[kei17]

As far as I know, the only version with a decent sound quality is the H.K Cantonese dub : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEhRIClqZJU

The Korean, Mandarin, Catalan (186-232), Latin Spanish, Hindi, Telugu, Tamil dubs and any other dubs using masters directly provided by Toei after the DBox release have high quality audio, too.

[Attitudefan]

I think the deciding factor for the popularity of DBZ in the USA was Toonami and its time slot. Not only that, but it got huge advertisement on TV! In Canada, DBZ was on YTV after school which was a major reason for why it was successful here. Time and spotlight have more to do with its success than music in it. Anything can be popular if they shove it down your throat enough times, not that DBZ needed that, but it helped.

[EXBadguy]

Personally, though, I do find people who hold up the Faulconer score or the NuMetal-infused movie soundtracks as an example of "doing things better" to be absolutely laughable.

Oh? While I find it boring and shitty when I see people prefer the Kikuchi soundtrack, acting like it's objectively superior. They must be old geezers that can't let go of the past! Most people who prefer the score are at least 60 or 70 year olds!

Just saiyan man, the hell are you to laugh at other people's preference? If they like Falconer or the rock/metal soundtrack better, then let them be. I don't go around saying that the people here are boring and have old geezer spirits for preferring the Kikuchi soundtrack.

As far as I know, the only version with a decent sound quality is the H.K Cantonese dub :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7quqnZUJW7g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEhRIClqZJU

Shunsuke Kikuchi in its full glory !

Stiiiill sounds like it came from a 1960 martial arts movie. I don't think that's what Z is about. Sure, for DB it does fit, as it has that Sun Wukong/Jackie Chan vibe, but Z...nah.

Yeah, I treat DB and Z differently, I don't care.

Youtube is one of the largest, most popular sites in the history of the internet and the most viewed Dragon Ball related video has about 30 million views or something, i'm pretty sure it represents a large percentage of fans. This site, which only has a few hundred members, represents a small minority of fans.

Also you have Saiyan Island, which has a pretty big fanbase as well. Heck, check out the current poll there, it asked about Frieza's new form and it had VERY mixed results.

[kei17]

Oh? While I find it boring and shitty when I see people prefer the Kikuchi soundtrack, acting like it's objectively superior. They must be old geezers that can't let go of the past! Most people who prefer the score are at least 60 or 70 year olds!

To be fair, the Faulconer score IS dated now, too. Its cheap synths and outdated Techno style must sound "boring" and "shitty" to kids these days and they must think the fans of such music are old geezers who can't let go of the past.

[EXBadguy]

To be fair, the Faulconer score IS dated now, too. Its cheap synths and outdated Techno style must sound "boring" and "shitty" to kids these days and they must think the fans of such music are old geezers who can't let go of the past.

That's why the so-called "theif" Yammamoto beats all! Doesn't have the old wall-to-wall techno nor the shitty 1930 style polka tambourine music.

Yammamoto>Falconer>all of the other replacement composers>>dirt>>>>>>Kikuchi!

[Kamiccolo9]

To be fair, the Faulconer score IS dated now, too. Its cheap synths and outdated Techno style must sound "boring" and "shitty" to kids these days and they must think the fans of such music are old geezers who can't let go of the past.

That's why the so-called "theif" Yammamoto beats all! Doesn't have the old wall-to-wall techno nor the shitty 1930 polka tambourine music.

Yammamoto>Falconer>all of the other replacement composers>>dirt>>>>>>Kikuchi!

"So-called?"

[EXBadguy]

To be fair, the Faulconer score IS dated now, too. Its cheap synths and outdated Techno style must sound "boring" and "shitty" to kids these days and they must think the fans of such music are old geezers who can't let go of the past.

That's why the so-called "theif" Yammamoto beats all! Doesn't have the old wall-to-wall techno nor the shitty 1930 polka tambourine music.

Yammamoto>Falconer>all of the other replacement composers>>dirt>>>>>>Kikuchi!

"So-called?"

Damn right. You guys call him a thief all the damn time, everytime his name comes up.

Yall can say what you want about Yammamoto, but the Budokai and Kai soundtracks are one of the best soundtracks of DB in general, whether if some of the songs plagiarized another song or not.

[Kamiccolo9]

Damn right. You guys call him a thief all the damn time, everytime his name comes up.

Yall can say what you want about Yammamoto, but the Budokai and Kai soundtracks are one of the best soundtracks of DB in general, whether if some of the songs plagiarized another song or not.

Because he is. The quality of his "work" does not discount the fact that it was stolen.