Should Toriyama's word be taken as absolute truth?

[Tatakae!!Ramenman]

I just go by what actually exists in the series as being true. Akira Toriyama can say all the stuff he wants, but unless it goes into a something real like a series or a movie, it's just words to me.

[Cetra]

Once an author has finished their work, it is no longer theirs, but belongs to its audience.

It really is not. Everyone can have their own thoughts about it but in the first place we read because we accept a world made by someone else and not a world made by use with tools given by someone else. If Joanne K. Rowling writes "Harry Potter the main character lives in Privet Drive which looks like xyz" then we can imagine Harry Potter and Privet Drive based on what she has explained but once we begin to deform the facts it is wrong. And if Akira Toriyama tells a story about Goku it is only right to imagine a story about who he means with the word "Goku". I tell something to express my own thoughts about a story I wrote, these thoughts are what build the facts and not everything is open to interpretation. Imagination built on the facts if it is absolutely fitting is something else.

[dbgtFO]

In that case, please tell me where it actually says in any line prior to Trunks's that Yamucha enjoys the attention of women other than his girlfriend. Give me one example where Yamucha is either shown to be doing so, or any character actually says that that is the case. Because I guarantee you it never happens. Not even Blooma ever says it.

In fact, let's take the dialogue right now, and you tell me where it says this. I'll just use the Viz translation, since it happens to be handy. I don't think it takes any liberties in this case, but if it does, feel free to provide another translation:

Goku: Hey, what about Yamcha and Oolong?
Mother: Yamcha, and Oolong, and Pu'ar are all in school--but of course, this child is fighting with Yamcha right now! He's so handsome, you know, and she simply can't stand the fact that he's popular with the girls...
Bulma: Will you shut up?!! I'm gonna go look for Dragon Balls with Son Goku again!!!! And this time, I'm gonna find a way better guy than Yamcha!!

So with just the facts here, how am I adding things through interpretation? Where is it said that Yamucha is enjoying or seeking out attention? Because I'm certainly not seeing it. After her mother's explanation, does Blooma even attempt to refute it and place the blame on Yamucha? Nope. There is absolutely nothing on the surface level of this scene that implies any of that, and there's no reason for anyone to think so without the later added context. On its own, it simply isn't there.

I think the Adventure Special even mentions that Yamcha didn't care about other girls in his character profile, but i'm not 100% on that.

[rereboy]

In that case, please tell me where it actually says in any line prior to Trunks's that Yamucha enjoys the attention of women other than his girlfriend. Give me one example where Yamucha is either shown to be doing so, or any character actually says that that is the case. Because I guarantee you it never happens. Not even Blooma ever says it.

In fact, let's take the dialogue right now, and you tell me where it says this. I'll just use the Viz translation, since it happens to be handy. I don't think it takes any liberties in this case, but if it does, feel free to provide another translation:

Goku: Hey, what about Yamcha and Oolong?
Mother: Yamcha, and Oolong, and Pu'ar are all in school--but of course, this child is fighting with Yamcha right now! He's so handsome, you know, and she simply can't stand the fact that he's popular with the girls...
Bulma: Will you shut up?!! I'm gonna go look for Dragon Balls with Son Goku again!!!! And this time, I'm gonna find a way better guy than Yamcha!!

So with just the facts here, how am I adding things through interpretation? Where is it said that Yamucha is enjoying or seeking out attention? Because I'm certainly not seeing it. After her mother's explanation, does Blooma even attempt to refute it and place the blame on Yamucha? Nope. There is absolutely nothing on the surface level of this scene that implies any of that, and there's no reason for anyone to think so without the later added context. On its own, it simply isn't there.

I'm not arguing that its explicitly and literally said that he is enjoying being popular with girls because that's not what it's written in the dialog like you stated, but I do think that's what the scene is transmitting to the reader implicitly.

The image I get from that scene is a bunch of girls looking seductively and talking to Yamcha while Yamcha is flushed, red in the face and embarrassed by the attention and Bulma not liking at all that Yamcha is not ignoring other female attention like another man would if he was indifferent to it or showing clear signs of actually not liking it.

Meanwhile the image that you are suggesting for it is something like Yamcha reading something, oblivious to what is going on, while a bunch of girls comment between each other how handsome he is and Bulma noticing it and becoming pissed at Yamcha for it, and Yamcha looking confused at her.

Like I said, that seems like a much bigger stretch to me, given what we are presented. Not only are you assuming that Bulma couldn't be any more in the wrong in that situation, but you also assume that the other mentions of them having trouble in their relationship can't be in any way related to Yamcha enjoying other female attention despite the fact that we have absolutely no details about it, and you also assume that the expositional justification that Bulma (through Trunks) gives for the end of their relationship is a complete and total lie.

I think Bulma is a hypocrite because she did as bad or worse than whatever Yamcha did, and probably Yamcha also didn't like that, but that doesn't mean that Yamcha never did anything in that regard at all. It doesn't have to be just one person completely in the wrong and it doesn't make sense to assume that Bulma, given what we are presented, is lying and totally and completely in the wrong.

You are taking Bulma's faults and concluding that Yamcha can't have made any kind of related mistakes, like they are somehow mutually exclusive, and your argument for it is that we didn't see Yamcha doing such in the manga and that Toriyama wasn't thinking about developing it like that in the future.

Well, Toriyama also wasn't actually thinking that Goku was an alien when he came up with him and we didn't see him land on Earth, but when he was revealed to be an alien, stuff like his tail and Oozaru worked, implicitly, as stuff that suggested that fact, and because the reveal doesn't actually contradict anything, it works in-universe.

The same way, when Bulma reveals that Yamcha had some trouble ignoring other girls or being as faithful as she wanted, stuff like what happened in volume 6 and the later mentions of their troubles, work, implicitly, as stuff that suggest that fact and, since it doesn't contradict anything, it works in-universe. It doesn't mean that all their troubles must be just that, or that Bulma isn't an hypocrite because she surely was as bad or worse in that regard, but trying to argue that it somehow falls out of nowhere or that it's somehow a lie, doesn't make sense to me.

[Friggin_Krillin]

We indeed can take Dragon Ball Minus, but that crappy-and-done-without-any-professionalism chapter is not, in anyway, Bardock's backstory. Bardock deserves much more than that and still he receives that lazy work? No way.
With Dragon Ball Minus we can only say, for a little, how it was the last month of the Saiyans. And with the panel in 307, we can only say Bardock was given a little-to-nothing glory by fighting Freeza alone. But both aren't valid to state they are Bardock's backstory.

Okay, i think my Wording of 'Backstory' is kinda false and misleading there. It is improper to label Minus as a whole defining Material for Bardock as a Character. Didn't wanted it to come off that Way. I intended to get at the Telling of his first Appearance in the Series. With Minus being the most accurate since it is a Manga Chapter and a Part of the official Prequel to DB, all done by Toriyama himself. Concerning that 'Word of Truth'.

[SonEric84]

The one thing I thought was silly about Dragon Ball Minus is the reveal that Bulma had a sibling that she just somehow never even mentioned during the entirety of Dragon Ball.

[FoolsGil]

The one thing I thought was silly about Dragon Ball Minus is the reveal that Bulma had a sibling that she just somehow never even mentioned during the entirety of Dragon Ball.

That was Jaco, but yeah definitely. Where has she been all this time? At least if Toriyama said Tights was Bulma's distant cousin, it would make sense that she's never around in Dragonball or Z.

[Lord Beerus]

The one thing I thought was silly about Dragon Ball Minus is the reveal that Bulma had a sibling that she just somehow never even mentioned during the entirety of Dragon Ball.

Why should Bulma feel obligated to talk about her family if she doesn't want too? And even if she did mention she had a sister, the general reaction from the Goku and the gang would have been, "Oh. Okay, that's cool". The End.

[SonEric84]

The one thing I thought was silly about Dragon Ball Minus is the reveal that Bulma had a sibling that she just somehow never even mentioned during the entirety of Dragon Ball.

That was Jaco, but yeah definitely. Where has she been all this time? At least if Toriyama said Tights was Bulma's distant cousin, it would make sense that she's never around in Dragonball or Z.

Shoot, that's what I meant! I just ended up typing Minus because I was reading about it in the previous comment. Heh.

The one thing I thought was silly about Dragon Ball Minus is the reveal that Bulma had a sibling that she just somehow never even mentioned during the entirety of Dragon Ball.

Why should Bulma feel obligated to talk about her family if she doesn't want too? And even if she did mention she had a sister, the general reaction from the Goku and the gang would have been, "Oh. Okay, that's cool". The End.

I was just saying at the very least you'd think there would be some kind of inkling or hint at it. The fact that she never shows up in Dragon Ball at all is what makes it quite unbelievable.

[Dayspring]

The one thing I thought was silly about Dragon Ball Minus is the reveal that Bulma had a sibling that she just somehow never even mentioned during the entirety of Dragon Ball.

Why should Bulma feel obligated to talk about her family if she doesn't want too? And even if she did mention she had a sister, the general reaction from the Goku and the gang would have been, "Oh. Okay, that's cool". The End.

Agreed. Her entire role in Jaco explains why we've never seen her at the Capsule Corp before: she doesn't live there. Knowing Bulma has a sister that we'll never see adds nothing to any facet of the Dragonball story.

[SonEric84]

Agreed. Her entire role in Jaco explains why we've never seen her at the Capsule Corp before: she doesn't live there. Knowing Bulma has a sister that we'll never see adds nothing to any facet of the Dragonball story.

If it adds nothing to the story, then why make her Bulma's sister? Why not give her some other kind of affiliation to Capsule Corp. if it's absolutely necessary to even have the connection?

[Dayspring]

Agreed. Her entire role in Jaco explains why we've never seen her at the Capsule Corp before: she doesn't live there. Knowing Bulma has a sister that we'll never see adds nothing to any facet of the Dragonball story.

If it adds nothing to the story, then why make her Bulma's sister? Why not give her some other kind of affiliation to Capsule Corp. if it's absolutely necessary to even have the connection?

That wasn't a Dragonball story, though. It occurred in Jaco. The affiliation to Capsule Corp. wasn't what was needed, but rather the fact that she's the daughter of the Capsule Corp.'s owner. It made for a nice little cameo and easter egg for readers of Jaco, resolved a major plot point in Jaco itself, and did absolutely nothing to impede or enhance the Dragonball story.

[SonEric84]

That wasn't a Dragonball story, though. It occurred in Jaco. The affiliation to Capsule Corp. wasn't what was needed, but rather the fact that she's the daughter of the Capsule Corp.'s owner. It made for a nice little cameo and easter egg for readers of Jaco, resolved a major plot point in Jaco itself, and did absolutely nothing to impede or enhance the Dragonball story.

I understand that, but it just seemed off because we see so much of Capsule Corp. and Bulma's family throughout Dragon Ball (I guess more so in the anime) that it comes off as strange to establish a new sibling that is somehow not once seen or mentioned. Perhaps I just like a feeling of consistency. I really enjoyed Jaco, but the Bulma cameo felt weird to me. Just my personal opinion.

[Dayspring]

That wasn't a Dragonball story, though. It occurred in Jaco. The affiliation to Capsule Corp. wasn't what was needed, but rather the fact that she's the daughter of the Capsule Corp.'s owner. It made for a nice little cameo and easter egg for readers of Jaco, resolved a major plot point in Jaco itself, and did absolutely nothing to impede or enhance the Dragonball story.

I understand that, but it just seemed off because we see so much of Capsule Corp. and Bulma's family throughout Dragon Ball (I guess more so in the anime) that it comes off as strange to establish a new sibling that is somehow not once seen or mentioned. Perhaps I just like a feeling of consistency. I really enjoyed Jaco, but the Bulma cameo felt weird to me. Just my personal opinion.

Understood. I just disagree that it's inconsistent is all. The story explains that she's stopped living at Capsule Corp. as of when she graduated college at the latest. The lack of consistency would have arisen had she explained that she lives at Capsule Corp. and it was just a coincidence that we never saw her in DB. Dragonball starts at least a decade after Tights moved to another country.

[SonEric84]

Understood. I just disagree that it's inconsistent is all. The story explains that she's stopped living at Capsule Corp. as of when she graduated college at the latest. The lack of consistency would have arisen had she explained that she lives at Capsule Corp. and it was just a coincidence that we never saw her in DB. Dragonball starts at least a decade after Tights moved to another country.

Perhaps inconsistent isn't the right term to use, but yeah. I suppose I just feel like something as important as a sibling would be worthy of mention. That's a fair explanation. I suppose I would just prefer it worked out a little differently when I really stop and think about it. Sure, that's a long time so maybe she just doesn't keep in touch with her family very much or if she does, I guess it wouldn't really be necessary to Dragon Ball's plot development to be like "Tights called today!"

It's just somewhat difficult for me to accept "big" changes that are added later on.

[Rozay]

His creation, whatever he says goes, even if it doesn't make sense to me. I can criticize it, like for example, I like GT, so I wish it counted towards his story. But he says it doesn't, so it doesn't. To me, that's a matter of respect for the guy who created the story. Even if he is forgetful, or maybe doesn't put much thought into things, he deserves to have final say in whatever he wishes to happen in it. I can like other non-Toriyama related DB things and make up my own storyline and powers and such, sure. In my mind, there's the official version, and my interpretations of it. But those are very separated and in the end, the official version takes precedence. So yeah, whatever he says goes, even if I don't like it.

[Dayspring]

Understood. I just disagree that it's inconsistent is all. The story explains that she's stopped living at Capsule Corp. as of when she graduated college at the latest. The lack of consistency would have arisen had she explained that she lives at Capsule Corp. and it was just a coincidence that we never saw her in DB. Dragonball starts at least a decade after Tights moved to another country.

Perhaps inconsistent isn't the right term to use, but yeah. I suppose I just feel like something as important as a sibling would be worthy of mention. That's a fair explanation. I suppose I would just prefer it worked out a little differently when I really stop and think about it. Sure, that's a long time so maybe she just doesn't keep in touch with her family very much or if she does, I guess it wouldn't really be necessary to Dragon Ball's plot development to be like "Tights called today!"

It's just somewhat difficult for me to accept "big" changes that are added later on.

Yeah, they don't seem like a close enough of a family to chat very often. As it was, Prof. Briefs asked her how college was going and her reaction was all "WTF?! I told you I graduated when I turned 17!" This tells me they're the type of family to drift apart easily unless they see each other often out of routine (like living under the same roof). I can see Tights only showing up at Trunks' and Bra's births, but those of those events occurred off-panel.

[Friggin_Krillin]

It's just somewhat difficult for me to accept "big" changes that are added later on.

Tarble, for me. All of that was so cheap. I'm just glad that he fell back in the Obscurity where that pointless Whiner crawled out of. Tights i like better somehow, but she's an other and easier to accept Category.

[SonEric84]

It's just somewhat difficult for me to accept "big" changes that are added later on.

Tarble, for me. All of that was so cheap. I'm just glad that he fell back in the Obscurity where that pointless Whiner crawled out of. Tights i like better somehow, but she's an other and easier to accept Category.

I suppose one could argue that Vegeta is hardly the type to talk about family or have deep conversations of any kind with the Z-warriors, but the fact that it never came up anywhere in the saiyan back story and that Vegeta was always referred to as the prince of all saiyans as if he was the only one did seem cheap. It also doesn't help that Tarble wasn't really a very interesting character.

[Friggin_Krillin]

I suppose one could argue that Vegeta is hardly the type to talk about family or have deep conversations of any kind with the Z-warriors, but the fact that it never came up anywhere in the saiyan back story and that Vegeta was always referred to as the prince of all saiyans as if he was the only one did seem cheap. It also doesn't help that Tarble wasn't really a very interesting character.

Also that Vegeta vehemently stated that he and Goku were the only full blooded Saiyans alive, of his knowledge at least. Vegeta ignores the crap out of him on purpose. Creating him to mostly point on that feels.. off.