Anyone else not give a shit about the canon?

[Gyt Kaliba]

I'm also of the opinion that 'canon' both matters and doesn't matter. I mean, yeah, it's nice to be able to see what counts towards other pieces of the franchise...but at the end of the day, does it really matter? I mean, really, whether something 'counts' or not shouldn't take away from whether it's enjoyable or not. There are things for this franchise and others that don't really 'count' towards the story overall that I enjoy more than some things that do 'count'.

But then again, I'm also of the thought that I almost couldn't care any less about power consistency either so long as the material I'm presented with his entertaining enough to make up for any leaps in logic, so what do I know?

[Looneygamemaster]

From what I've seen, there's a fans of a whole lot of different things who put too much emphasis on canon and continuity.

In general, I don't particularly care. I don't dislike most Shonen Jump anime filler because they contradict the oh so sacred source material; I dislike them because no one involved tends to care about them.

[JulieYBM]

I have no shits to give. 'Canon' is merely an obstacle to the enjoyment of art. Why care about canon when that supposedly nullifies the validity of a work of art?

[dae428]

Personally, I don't care too much about canon. However, I believe that canon can be a fun tool to use when used in debates as long as the debate isn't stupid.
An example for this would be in a VS/Death Battle scenario in which people debate things like Goku (manga canon) vs Piccolo (anime canon) in which we have specific sources that are referred to and other sources that are ignored. Unfortunately, I feel like most of times canon is brought forth is when it is used as a stupid responses like, "Brolli is now canon!" or "GT isn't canon!" or even "Toriyama said this so it's canon!"

[swimtrunks]

I try to stay away but there is no escape...

Yes there is. Just don't read them. Also, you say you do not give a shit or care but your entire op shows otherwise. Forum discussions of canon/non-canon doesn't stop me from watching and enjoying Fusion Reborn or any other non-canon material. Discussions about canon are going to come up eventually because this is a discussion forum. I was just on another forum where a person proclaimed to enjoy every bit of a cartoon's series because the majority of posters were showing their disdain for the second series. My response was "Well... no one's forcing you to be here." Without the criticisms and debates goes half of what forums like this one were made for. There's no getting around the canon discussion when it comes to Dragon Ball. Garlic Jr. and Radditz started it from the get go.

[Dbzejo]

Sometimes it's just taken to absurd extremes.
I was discussing some theories about a timeline based on the movies and apparently I shouldn't because it's non-canon,
It's fun to think about how Things fit, but at the end of the day it's just entertainment.
If you can't enjoy BoG or RoF, because now Super will readapt those arcs, I'd have to say I find that completely non-sensical.

C'mon, man, i was just kidding.
But yeah, canon debates suck big time, i enjoy the whole franchise, doesn't matter if its canon or not.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I don't give a shit either. I do have my own personal canon, but that doesn't mean that I won't watch & enjoy the movies, GT, or video-game what-ifs.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I have a love hate relationship with canon debates myself, but other times I don't care because Dragon Ball is Dragon Ball. End of the day Toriyama doesn't think about these things the way the fans do.

[Alex9196]

people who just consider the manga canon, thats fine. but also in the manga there are plotholes and other stuff which contridict itsself just like in movies, filler and whatever.

also in the pilaf saga in the manga they say that they are in a comic. i wouldnt accept that as canon for my part but at the end of the day i value dragonball for its lessons and fights... and vegeta and not its canon.

[LuckyCat]

I think there's value in determining canon; it allows us to predict what new material will be based on. Like it's pretty safe to say Lord Slug isn't canon and therefore it's extremely unlikely he's going to show up again in any new material. Does that mean Lord Slug's movie is completely awful? No, and that's not what a canon discussion should be about.

[Deathbringer]

There is a point to having a canon, we've had a canon for decades, it's the manga. Stuff that deviates out of that takes place outside canon and is allowed to be as creative as it wants. This is so simple it doesn't need a huge shitstorm seriously.

[Alex9196]

There is a point to having a canon, we've had a canon for decades, it's the manga. Stuff that deviates out of that takes place outside canon and is allowed to be as creative as it wants. This is so simple it doesn't need a huge shitstorm seriously.

why do you only accept the manga as canon? just to be clear i am not trying to start a debate, i am just curious about your reasoning.

[Deathbringer]

There is a point to having a canon, we've had a canon for decades, it's the manga. Stuff that deviates out of that takes place outside canon and is allowed to be as creative as it wants. This is so simple it doesn't need a huge shitstorm seriously.

why do you only accept the manga as canon? just to be clear i am not trying to start a debate, i am just curious about your reasoning.

Well, I actually accept the manga and Super (also any anime filler in DB/DBZ that doesn't contradict the manga or super) as my canon right now, but I can understand anyone's reasoning of wanting to only count the manga since that's the original story. I am very open to loving things that aren't canon, I don't think less of something for not being canon and neither should anyone else really.

[Tyro]

There is a point to having a canon, we've had a canon for decades, it's the manga. Stuff that deviates out of that takes place outside canon and is allowed to be as creative as it wants. This is so simple it doesn't need a huge shitstorm seriously.

why do you only accept the manga as canon? just to be clear i am not trying to start a debate, i am just curious about your reasoning.

Because that's the most logical starting point for almost everything, isn't it? If anything is "canon", the original work that other stuff is based on is a good starting point. Why would the Harry Potter books be canon over the movies? Same goes for most manga that get an anime adaptation, and later get spin-off movies.

After GT but before Dragon Ball Super, there were a lot of good reasons why "canon" might extend to the newest movies that Toriyama had a hand in. If Toriyama had had a hand in making a video game, Super Dragon Ball Z 2 for example, and it was being marketed as "part of the official history" and "Toriyama wrote the story of the game as if he were continuing the manga", then most of us would probably accept the game's events as "canon" too, until something new came out and rewrote it.

Again: The only rule is to be logical with what you include in your "canon", and even that only applies if you want to be logical in the first place. That's why it's easy to call bullshit on things like "I accept the manga and Trunks TV special in my headcanon", since they have differing events.

[Caulifor]

I find it so interesting that so many people in this forum seem to not care at all about canon, which is so strange to me! There's nothing wrong with that really, it's just something I'm not used to seeing. Anyway...

I think maybe people look at it the wrong way? Since there is no official canon, it doesn't really matter if the original manga came fist or not, really. It's up to you to decide which information you put into your "headcanon".

However, I do think it's important to at least separate the different medias' and series' worlds. I like to imagine there are four (or maybe even five) possible canons regarding Dragon Ball:

1. The original manga; This means the story on its original run in Weekly Shōnen Jump, and only that.

2. The updated manga and additional manga material; This means the manga version that is most up to date (Kanzenban if I'm not mistaken?), with the different ending and all of that, plus side stories like Jaco and Dragon Ball Minus.

3. The original anime; Meaning Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball GT in their entirety, including 'fillers'. If it was shown in the anime, it's canon to the anime. Now here's the tricky part: should the movies be included here? They are incredibly inconsistent with the anime itself, but so is GT. And since the Garlick Jr. Arc is a continuation of the Garlick Jr. movie, which is inconsistent with the beginning of Z... I say, the movies are in. It's just an incredibly inconsistent canon, but so what? Oh, and also Battle of Gods and RoF would fit here as continuations of DBZ.

4. The updated anime; Basically, Dragon Ball (since there is no updated version of it), Dragon Ball Kai and Dragon Ball Super. Though it remains to be seen if elements from fillers/movies will be incorporated into Super, making it either inconsistent or an actual part of Canon 3.

Anyway, I know this is kind of my own "headcanons", but I still think it's a fairly logical way to look at the canon problem.

[dbgtFO]

Anyway, I know this is kind of my own "headcanons", but I still think it's a fairly logical way to look at the canon problem.

That's pretty much how I view it too, though I might also add Neko Majin to pile number 2.

[Big Momma]

I don't care about "canon" or even "continuity" to a certain extent, but only when it involves Dragon Ball.

I feel like caring about the details more than Toriyama does will only put a damper on the fun.

(That goes for caring about any work more than the creator in that regard)

[theoriginalbilis]

If you're into preserving canon, that's your own business.

Me? I don't care anymore. Especially as a former reader of US superhero comics, the constant reboots and continuity wipes got on my nerves, so I just decided not to care. As long as the stories are entertaining, and the plot developments aren't blatantly out-of-left-field.

Sometimes a strong adherence to continuity hinders creativity; that's what I say.

[irreality]

I don't care at all about "canon" in the sense that I need a word of God explanation of how it fits together or that I'm upset if there are contradictions or anything like that. As Chuquita says, I like picking and choosing the bits I like the most, and for me, that is currently the manga, Jaco, and Super. Everything else is just flavor that adds to the universe -- it is ways of exposing details of an underlying "fictional reality".

I do like canon debates in the sense that I like "solving a puzzle" or making up outlandish headcanons for why "magic a is magic a" or how things in theory could fit together. I don't like canon debates that are people saying how everything is now ruined, or not being able to let any little contradiction go and saying things are a "mistake" or not understanding the MST3k mantra or nitpicking every little word -- they feel too much like power level debates, which I just "nope" at.

I'm more of a if you are painting a picture and you spill some ink on the painting, you rework the painting to make the inkstain part of it all along, and it is richer for it -- that is the part I like about canon discussions. I also kind of see it like ancient mythological tellings of stories: stories are told a bit differently in each retelling, but they are not fundamentally a different story, just part of the popular lore. And I see DB as a modern myth in that sense. It is similar to how I treat LotR, which although in a different literary character, holds a similar place in my heart.

[Kendamu]

I personally operate on a loose canon. It's crazy.

Okay. Bad joke.

Seriously, though, I have a pretty good idea of what happened and when. Everything fits for the most part. The timeline might not exactly match up, but I enjoy Dragon Ball in the moment. I care more about it being fun as I experience it than if there was some minor mistake or someone spoke about something slightly wrong.

That said, it's not my place to tell someone else how to enjoy Dragon Ball. If they love canon debates and Power Levels (or run a huge DB website known for their crazy awesome accuracy) then the dude abides. I'm not gonna run in and start telling everyone to stop. Just don't expect me to be found debating any age quirks in Jaco or whatever.