How would you improve GT?

Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:37 pm

So you hear all the time, unfortunately, about how much "GT sucked," and all kinds of similiar, blunt banter. So I've begun to think that, if handled differently, GT could have been just as good as, or at least not a disgrace to, its predecessor(s).
So here's the hypothetical situation; you've been put in charge of the story and design development for a new, redone, hypothetical revamping of GT. You've been asked to make tweaks and changes to things like character designs, plot points (and holes), events, etc... in order to improve the series, but without majorly changing the overall story or characters.

For examples...

DO: Alter the Super 17 Saga's story somewhat to make it better fit in with the series.
DON'T: Completely remove the Super 17 Saga.

DO: Never give Vegeta the Freddy Mercury mustache, or rather play up the humor around it even more before he gets rid of it.
DON'T: Kill Vegeta off three episodes in to the series.

Okay? I think(/hope) that everyone is knowledgable and creative enough to come up with some good ideas, and hopefully turn this into a long, insightful, and fun topic.

EDIT: Typo of darkness!

Domon · Post by **Domon** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:19 pm

Actually, I'm one of those that liked GT, or at least didn't think of it as a "disgrace". Of course, for every person that agrees with me, there's probably 20 that doesn't.

With the above in mind; about the only change I'd really ask for is character balance. In the first third, Goku, Trunks and Pan are the prinicple players, while everyone else is just background decoration. By the time Baby arrives on Earth, Pan and Goku are pretty much the only ones that gets decent screentime. In this context, Super Android 17 is one of the better saga, since everyone is somewhat visable (and No. 18 actually plays an important part!

).

While Z was rather Saiyan-biased in its second half or so, GT takes this to another extreme and focused almost entirely on Goku. Presenting more of a balance with the other Saiyan and non-Saiyan would've helped to remove the complaint that Goku hoggs the spotlight in this series. Also, this series really should've shown how strong Oob was. The ending of Z makes such a big deal out of him. Yet in GT, he does little better than any other non-Goku characters(even after receiving a power-up from Boo).

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:50 pm

More interaction between Goten and Trunks. Gotenks should have been in the series at least once.

More focus on Uub.

Vegeta should have had his original haircut (wtf was Toei thinking?!)

Less stupid planets and villians.

More Pilaf!

DBZ MAN · Post by **DBZ MAN** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:53 pm

Adult Goku.

The next gerneration to take the mantle.

Leave Vegeta's hair as it was.

Cell and Frieza to actualy be stronger then a boy.

More violence. (Oh how fanboy of me).

HP · Post by HP » Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:55 pm

I like GT. Very much, to say the truth!
However, I would prefer it if:

The series were longer

Less Goku focus & less SSJ4 & more SSJ3! (just to balance things a bit)

Subsequently more focus on other the "Z warriors"

More technical fight scenes (like in the 23rd Budokai!

) & less Kamehameha

Goku should return to be a grown up, although I loved the very emotional ending - Superb!

Things I wouldn't change:

Vegeta's moustache & haircut. Damn funny!

The character Baby - also excelent!

The search for the Black DB around the Universe

Although I was very sad when Piccolo died, I reckon that event is a must due to its emotional charge.

But definatley, GT should be longer and less Goku oriented.

DBZ MAN · Post by **DBZ MAN** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:58 pm

I thought the reason behind Piccolo's death was very silly though (also the whole plot but thats another thing). It would have been better if he died stalling time for Goku and Vegeta to fuse as no one else can get up or something like that.

Azure · Post by **Azure** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:29 pm

I think they should have done Super Saiyaman Adventures instead! The amazing adventures of Saiyaman 1 & 2, Majin Buu and Satan-san .

Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:55 pm

Domon wrote:Actually, I'm one of those that liked GT, or at least didn't think of it as a "disgrace".

Oh, don't get me wrong. I like and appreciate GT plenty. I was just implying that it still just wasn't nearly as Good as Db/Z. Anyway, a lot of people have already made my intended points...

- Adult\Kid Goku crisis - I think I actually came up with a good idea concerning this one. I'd have Goku be turned into a kid in the beginning like before, but then later reaching SSj4 (and the resizing it brought him) would permanently put him not only back into adulthood, but back in to his prime. Same with Vegeta; he'd be getting old, past his prime and losing some power because of it, but acheiving SSj4 would revitalize him.

- Gives more props in general to people other than Goku (Way more for Uub, and more for Vegeta, Piccolo, and Gohan) It's the end of the entire friggin' story; let's give a few other characters some closure, huh?

- Change some character designs and personalities slightly. For Vegeta, have the mustache at first like before, but play up the humor around it a lot more before he gets rid of it (Besides that, Vegeta was still always awesome). Also, Trunks loses the neckercheif and isn't such a nerdy brat, Pan isn't such a pansy ("Pan-sy?"), Gohan's still got his "mystic" thing, etc...

- Make the BlackStar Balls Saga not quite so goofy and nonsensical (Like not having all the other unnecessary events and characters surrounding Dr. Myuu and Babi. But keep the ParaPara Bros., they pwn)

- Baby Saga would stay about the same, however, I'd change how Goku gets his tail back, and make SSj4 Goku and Babi's fight's end a little better/more dramatic)

- How many times can one, small, lowly planet get totaled/blown up so may freakin' times in one relatively short series? For pete's sake...

- Super 17, I'd leave about the same, however, have it fit into the story or be introduced better. Also, make Goku's fight with Cell and Freeza more interesting. Remember, Goku's back to adulthood now. But Freeza and Cell have improved enough to take him on... until he suddenly jumps up to SSj2, causing both of them to practically crap themselves...

NOTE: Super 17 was my favorite part of GT. Why? Because the action and combat was on the level that GT should have been. (What with Goku and S17 knocking each other across entire continents, and all)

- Evil Shenron Saga would be the one I'd change the most. The opening events would be pretty much the same, but rather than have just Goku and Pan going after all the dragons one by one, I'd have the entire hero cast split up into several teams of two, and each pair goes after a Dragon. Goku would just go after Nova (having sensed him to be the strongest, with Eis and Syn hiding), and end up fighting him, Eis, and Syn\Omega practically the same way as before.

- Gogeta would be better. At least have him for more than half an episode, and be intense and bold like in Movie 12, not an irresponsible weirdo.

- The ending would be pretty similar, but like before, somehow give more props and closure to people other than Goku.

Wow, that was long. Rant alert! ::Sirens::

Big Momma · Post by **Big Momma** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:08 pm

Heres what I would change:

-Gotens Hair(Seriously

)
- Vegetas Hair
-More Uub Time
-Gotenks(Maybe even SSJ4 Gotenks

)
- More Uub Time
- Longer
- Instead of just three going into space, take Goten, Gohan, Uub, Piccolo, and Vegeta with you. I mean, Goku trains with Uub(Ten years I think?) and he doesn't even bother to take him on a space adventure

.
- I'm one of those people who think that an SSJ5 Level would be great.
- More Transformations.(SSJ3 Vegeta!

)
- On the above one, I'm saying this as if they didn't go with Goku, Pan, and Trunks. Like another bad guy coming and they have to stop him. C'mon, you know SSJ3 Vegeta sounds cool.

Thats about all I can think of now, I will try to think of more!

[/b]

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:26 pm

Personally, I would've kept Gohan's "Chou" upgrade rather than having the usual Super Saiyan transformation bit going. I also could've done without the moustache bit.

A lot of what I didn't like about GTG were minor things such as Goku being unable to fight because he couldn't see Omega Shenron when back in his fight with Frieza he used his ability to sense Ki as an advantage because Frieza had to rely on his eyes. What's up with that?

If a lot of very minor things changed to get the "feel" more like what I've seen evolve from the beginning of Dragonball to the end of Dragonball Z then it would be just as spectacular as the rest of the series.

Caracal · Post by **Caracal** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:57 pm

Keep
Super Saiyan 4 Goku, Vegeta and Gogeta.
Bebi and the Shadow Dragons.

Maybe keep
The Black Star Dragonballs.
Buu and Uub fusing.
Super Android 17.
Hell opening up.

Drop
Making Goku a child.
Using ideas from DB, DBZ and the movies instead of coming up with their own.
Making Goku the hero all the time.
Killing Piccolo.
Super Android 17.
Giru

Change
Focus less on Goku and Pan.
Maybe Pan. I found her annoying but it might be more the Blue Water voice actor rather than the character.
Make everyone a hero, especally Uub.
Maybe do the "Hell opens up" saga a bit differently.
Give Gohan his "Mystic" form and have Goten and Trunks fuse. Who cares if they're as strong as Goku. Not everyone wants to see Goku save the day 24/7.
Include more previous villains and make them stronger. Like someone said, don't make Cell and Freeza weak enough to loose to a kid.
The BSDB saga. Running through space was an iffy idea, especally some of the villains they fought bar the ParaPara Brothers and Ledgic.
Maybe give the ParaPara Brothers and Ledgic a bigger role, perhaps having them come back to Earth or something and fighting along side the heroes. I feel they could make interesting alies.
Make the series longer so characters are developed more, especally if more allies join the heroes.

Domon · Post by **Domon** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:39 pm

Oh, don't get me wrong. I like and appreciate GT plenty. I was just implying that it still just wasn't nearly as Good as Db/Z.

Ah, well I stand corrected then. Though it did sound as though you thought GT was a disgrace compared to the other two series.

Concerning this thread; I see that many agree on the Goku-centric issue and the need for more character balance. Something that keeps popping up is the whole "Goku-as-a-child" bit. Before, I've might've agreed more strongly that he shouldn't have been turned into a child, at least not for the whole series. Now, I feel netural on the issue. Though it still strikes me as odd that he should flip-flop between adult(SSJ 4) and child for the second half of the series.

As for things I liked and wouldn't change much:
-More of a focus on the Dragonballs. After the Freeza saga, the Dragonballs were left in the background for the remainder of Z, and used just to bring characters to life again. GT finally brought them back to the forefront and made them a focus of the story.

-Baby. My favorite GT villain, and maybe the most interesting of the lot introduced in that series.

-Pan. Considering she was just four when Z ended, it was good to have some focus on her, and to see what a slightly more grown-up version of her is like(as opposed to 4 years of age).

The Para-para Bros. I don't know why, but I like it whenever they go "Lef-to Righ-to Lef-to Righ-to! Turn-a-round with-a-great-smile!"

The Ending: Ok, I know some did have problems with the ending, but it was touching and did serve to give the series a sense of closure(something that the Z ending only kinda/sorta does).

Chaos Saiyajin · Post by **Chaos Saiyajin** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:39 pm

Blackstar Dragonball Saga:

1. Goku should've went into space with Pan, Uub, Goten and Trunks.
2. Pan reaches SSJ during this Saga, as does Bra on Earth. Goten and Trunks become SSJ2.
3. The Earth-bound Z Senshi need to take on some kind of villian during all this, which causes Vegeta to go SSJ3 and Gohan keep his Mystic form.
4. Less comedy, more action.

Bebi Saga

1. As SSJ Kaboom has stated, Goku returning to and adult and in his prime when achieving SSJ4.
2. SSJ3 Gotenks and Uub (fused with Majin Buu) taking on Bebi-Vegeta and still losing.
That's about all I'd change...

Tenkaichi Budokai Saga

Remember the TB episode? I say make it into an entire Saga, with Goku and Vegeta facing off in the finals. Goten and Trunks should also become SSJ2.

Super 17 Saga

1. No ki aura for #17.
2. More villians, like Bebi, returning from the dead, along with long since dead allies (like Pikkon and Olibu)
3. Gotenks achieving SSJ4.
4. Uub confronts Bibidi and Babidi and learns of his time as Majin Buu.
5. Vegeta going SSJ4 and killing Super 17 after seeing Goku nearly die.

Evil Shenlong Saga

1. Basically the same, except more than two people take on the Evil Shenlongs, a la the Z Senshi splittting up and taking them down.
2. Pan and Bra learn the fusion dance and become SSJ2s.
3. SSJ4 Gogeta and SSJ4 Gotenks toy with Yi Xi Long, then run outta fusion time. Mystic Gohan, SSJ2 Goten, SSJ2 Trunks, SSJ2 Pan, SSJ2 Bra, Uub, and SSJ4 Vegeta take on Yi Xing Long while Goku charges the Genki Dama. Yi Xing Long kills Vegeta in an attempt to get to Goku, causing Goku to return to SSJ4 and absorb the power of the Genki Dama (Movie 7) and destroys Yi Xing Long.
4. Shenlong returns all those killed to life, then takes Goku with him, saying that the Dragonballs need to be purified of the negative energy. Goku leaves for good.
5. 10 years later, we see Goten and Trunks' children fighting in the finals of the Tenkaichi Budokai, as Goku approaches Vegeta, who is skeptical that it's him at first. Goku invites Vegeta to join him in a place where only the strongest reside...

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:53 pm

Only things I would have rather seen were Pan playing more of a role "fighting wise". It would have been awesome to see her become a SSJ. More Gohan and not making him uncharacteristically weak. Not making Goku a child the whole way through. It was fine for the Black Star Dragonball saga and the Baby Saga even, but after that enough was enough. There was no need to keep him as a child and it was just not believable why he should remain so.

It really is a shame because I've always felt there were so many interesting ways they could have taken GT and instead they got lazy and played it safe, predictable, and repetitive.

Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:15 pm

Props, Chaos. I like your ending a lot better.

Chaos Saiyajin wrote:As SSJ Kaboom has stated, Goku returning to and adult and in his prime when achieving SSJ4.

Random Thought-up Dialogue!:
During S17 Saga; Goku is about to leave to go fight Freeza and Cell...
Vegeta: "Hey, Kakarrot."
Goku: "Hmm?"
Vegeta: "Go to hell."
Goku: "Yup! See ya!

"
Everyone else: -_-::

Cyberman · Post by **Cyberman** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:43 pm

- Adult Gotenks (and go SSJ4 maybe so he can catch up with the adults like in the Buu saga)

- Make Goten and Trunks SSJ2 (SSJ3 would be cheap, but still, they should ascend SSJ)

- Have Goten keep his Dad's hair

- Use a dragonball set besides the black star to make Goku an adult again

- Make Gohan Mystic

- Make Vegeta go SSJ at least once w/mustache

- Have other Z fighters do more

- Maybe include a few more fights in the Super 17 saga. 1 idea is to show Gotenks holding him off fairly well as a fused SSJ3, but getting carried away again. After the fusion wears off, Super 17 would go on a slight killing rage. Goku would come back and fight Super 17(as an adult). Upon going SSJ4, he would fight but start losing due to energy drain. Here, Bulma creates the Bluntz wave and uses it on Vegeta. Vegeta goes Golden Oozaru, controls it, turns SSJ4. But Super 17 destroys it. Now with Vegeta and Goku, they fuse into Gogeta and destroy Super 17.

- For the Baby saga, everything goes as normal until Goku and gang arrive on Earth. Baby uses the Black Star balls to wish the planet Tuffle back, and fights Goku. However, he has taken control of everyone except for the Z warriors and friends. Vegeta tries to help Goku, but Baby controls him. Goku can't beat Baby due to his unability to keep SSJ3 as a child. Gohan steps in and fights Baby, as he has been training secretly as well as being a scholar the last few years. While fighting Baby on Tuffle to buy time, Goku gets his tail pulled out by Old Kai. Gohan is doing okay until Baby starts possesingg some other warriors, like Majuub(who try to fuse and fight but fail) Goten, Trunks, Pan, and Piccolo, who give Baby their energy to fight Gohan. Goku comes back to save Gohan from being killed, tries again as a SSJ3 but fails. Goku goes Oozaru looking at Earth, and stomps all over Baby. The Z Warriors break out of the spell and try to calm Goku down.

Goku goes SSJ4, and this time we truly get to see the crap beat out of Baby. Baby goes Oozaru, and fights Gohan and Goku for payback. Goku and Gohan are down, Baby is about to destroy them, but Piccolo steps in, saves them, unfortunatly being killed. Goku and Gohan get back up with revenge on their mind. Goku tells the others to distract Baby. Doing so, he cuts his tail off. Now back to normal, Goku manages to hurt Baby hard enough to get Vegeta freed from his control. Baby tries to escape, Goku destroys him as a SSJ4, people run away to Tuffle before Earth blows up, yadda yadda yadda. With the Namek Dragon Balls, the 3 wishes are to bring Earth back, make Goku an adult again, and they try to make Piccolo come back to life, but he stays in Other World on his own will. 3rd wish was not used incase it was needed later.

- For the Shenron saga, I think we should have seen the Z warriors spread out. It would be priceless to see Gotenks fight against some of the dragons I think. Gohan should have destroyed a dragon so he could be a hero as well. Vegeta would destroy one, Goku would destroy one, Pan would destroy a weaker one, and the 4 star dragon would become an ally and destroy his brother, but then would get destroyed by Li Shenron. Eventually against Omega Shenron, Gotenks would have gone SSJ4 when he manages to have Dende use his healing powers to "regenerate" his tail. Because of the fusion magic, he does not need to go Oozaru, just goes from SSJ3 to SSJ4. Goku and Vegeta fuse into Gogeta once again, and along with SSJ4 Gotenks fights Omega, but fails because Omega can use a special negative energy to drain away the fusion time. All hope seems lost until they remember they still have a 3rd wish on Namek. Dende contacts them and tells them to wish for a another pair of fusion earrings.

With no other option, Goku and Vegeta become Vegeto to beat Omega. SSJ4 Vegeto is very powerful, but the planet is running the risk of being destroyed due to his awesome might. Of course, he goofs around, which doesn't help. Eventually Omega is about to be destroyed, but the negative energy manages to pierce the fusion as well and crush the earrings. During the fight, Gohan comes out of no where, as it seems he was thought to be killed earlier in the fight. He lends his energy to Goku, and tells everyone else to do the same. Goten and Trunks fuse into Gotenks to give stronger energy. Vegeta goes SSJ4 to lend large amounts of energy. Goku finally destroys Omega, and the rest is history.

B-kun · Post by **B-kun** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:08 am

Cyberman wrote: - Have Goten keep his Dad's hair

Actually, Goten changing his hair was in the manga. He changed his hair BECAUSE he didn't want Goku Hair. He was turning into his father's clone. Which he viewed as a bad thing.

ChaotixXero · Post by **ChaotixXero** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:23 am

I would:

-Not make Goku a child, he's an adult now.
-keep Goten's and Vegeta's hair style.
-not make it so long after Z, about 5 years.
-Take out SSJ4, I like things ending with 1,3,or 5. SSJ5 is too much so 3 should be the ultimate transformation.
-Keep Bebi and Shadow Dragon Saga.
-Take out Super 17 saga. :-\
-Make Vegeta SSJ3.
-Make Goku vs Vegeta the last fight(re-remathch)
-Keep Goku Jr./Vegeta Jr.

I'll post more soon.

Metrite · Post by **Metrite** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:11 am

The thing I'd want would be a little something that would require changing GT very, very much... I would want it to make sense and stay true to DB/Z. It's like GT's plot was written by drunk monkeys who'd never even seen DB/Z. I can understand mistakes here and there, but in GT there's glaring one's every ten seconds, and Gt's story revolves around the biggest plotholes of all time, such as the BS Dragonballs(hey, the shortening for the black star DBs suits them perfectly!

), dead bad guys coming back, and the evil dragons. GT had several dumb ideas like turning Goku into a kid, again. Though it had some ideas with potential, they were very poorly executed.

GT could've also used some more originality, many of it's stories were like copies of things that had already happened. Searching for the DBs had been done enough before and now seemed mostly pointless considering how easy they could be gotten even if scattered across the universe. The story behind Bebi was just like the one of the "OVA". Bad guys coming back to life had already happened in movie 12(the difference being that in movie 12 it was cool and made sense(regardless of which side of the "badies-with-bodies" thing you're on), wile in GT it made no sense at all). The main villains couldn't even have very original demises, bebi gets shot into the sun(saw that twice already), 17 gets a whole punched through him(whoever made that scene was dumb enough to think the ryuken is a hollowgram that appears around Goku as he just punches hard!

), and Ii Shenron gets killed by a Genki Dama.

If there was a ssj4, it should follow the previous forms. I'd think Goku should be the only one to reach it(since he was originaly supposed to be the only ssj, I've always thought he deserved atleast one form all to himself). If it were different type of transformation(anything like GT had), it should have a lot more thought put into it so it'd be more interesting and make sense, and it shouldn't be called ssj4.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:45 am

I'd set it much longer after DBZ.

-Goku is dead of old age and cannot be revived
-Gohan has lost his Mystic form
-Goten, Trunks and Uub, about the same
-Vegeta is getting old and, though still the strongest, he's losing his edge
-No Pan or Giru.
-Piccolo can hold his own against SSj2 Vegeta

I'll figure out plot changes later.

Kanzenshuu

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