Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
Scarlet Spider wrote:When will Future Trunks be happy and not experience loss/suffering?
I know we're all waiting and anxious for the next arc, for the promised shift tone, but... Didn't you guys feel sorry for Mirai Trunks? Bringing him back to despair was the only way for we to get a dark, serious story? I mean his story was complete, he came back to the past to find a way to defeat the Androids that disgraced his life in his timeline, he did it, so then he could rebuilt Earth, live in peace, finally.
It's like they run out of ideas: reviving Freeza, bringing back Mirai Trunks for pure fanservice, I really hope this arc to be good, but I still think It could be done in another way.
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
One of the many reasons i am not at all excited about this arc. Trunks was one of the few characters whose own arc had a perfect closure and they brought him back to make him suffer more. Terrible idea. The only thing that will satisfy me is if he gets to be the hero of the arc.
I don't get it, the others suffer all the time too. The only difference is that the fighters in the present timeline have the strength to face any challenge they get while future Trunks doesn't.
Since the android arc, in the present timeline we've had Boo, Beerus, Golden Freeza and Champa as opponents. In the future timeline we've had just Black.
I can agree, that after conclusion of last Future Trunks chapter, making him suffer again is sad, but, Mr. Toriyama is known for forgetting characters, so i wouldn't be surprised, if he forgot about this too
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I think its for the sake of bringing Trunks back for the fans, and he probably wouldn't come back if his time didn't get turned on his head again. I believe they'll make Trunks suffer over and over for the fans and the money just like the rest. Though, it does make me wonder about Broly, he is more popular than Trunks, we could see this guy being in the main timeline soon. I can already see a legendary ssj arc. I mean U6 is filled with Sayians after all.
As long as they have a good reason for it that's not retreading the Cyborg arc, then sure. They wrapped up his story pretty well, so to basically have another threat is risky. If it's an excuse to have Goku and Vegeta punch something, and add fanservice with Trunks, then this isn't good.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
dbzfan7 wrote:As long as they have a good reason for it that's not retreading the Cyborg arc, then sure. They wrapped up his story pretty well, so to basically have another threat is risky. If it's an excuse to have Goku and Vegeta punch something, and add fanservice with Trunks, then this isn't good.
To be fair, its been an excuse since BOG's end, to punch stuff. We've resulted to fighting over food after all.
dbzfan7 wrote:As long as they have a good reason for it that's not retreading the Cyborg arc, then sure. They wrapped up his story pretty well, so to basically have another threat is risky. If it's an excuse to have Goku and Vegeta punch something, and add fanservice with Trunks, then this isn't good.
To be fair, its been an excuse since BOG's end, to punch stuff. We've resulted to fighting over food after all.
True, but this is a character who had his story wrapped up well. To bring him back as an excuse to give Goku and Vegeta to punch something, and not do something more with Trunks character would be bad. They could have Goku Black without the future to accomplish that. But we'll see how they handle things.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Because Trunks suffering gives you feels, and feels leads to interest.
If there is something about the future timeline that lends itself to this story, then we can wait and see. If Toei is using Future Trunks as a returning herald merely to generate interest, that will not bode well.
JulieYBM wrote:
Pannaliciour wrote:Reading all the comments and interviews, my conclusion is: nobody knows what the hell is going on.
I like that there's calamity in Trunks' future. My problem isn't that he's suffering again. In fact, I think people's logic that "his story concluded with peace" is silly, given that we could have said the same thing when Goku defeated Piccolo.
My gripe is that Trunks has to resort to going back in time... again. This is so ****ing unoriginal at this point, with the video games and fanfics doing the same **** all the time. I would have preferred this arc to be separate from the rest of Super. No Goku, no Vegeta, no Piccolo, no gods. Just Trunks, new characters from his timeline, his struggles since defeating the androids, and his ultimate triumph. Future Trunks is popular enough to carry an arc on his own, especially if said arc has a complete tonal shift. It could all end with the Omni King noticing him and inviting him to the upcoming tournament, despite being from another timeline, thus bridging the story with the rest of Super.
Judging by this little tidbit below, you already know what to expect...
"Future Bulma resolves to ask for help from Goku and Vegeta in the world of the past."
I fear Black is going to be sucking on some SSB balls while Beerus and Whis fap off to an ice cream sundae in the background.
Last edited by fadeddreams5 on Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super
I never really thought about it in those terms, and I suppose the TV adaptation of Trunks the Story has something to do with why others do. Trunks is on a mission the entirety of the Cell arc; there's really no time to sit and linger and be sad, and he doesn't show it. The most you get is how upset he is that Vegeta's a moron.
Trunks never really gave me a reason to hope he has great rest of his life because he never really showed how much it bothered him in the first place. He swallowed his tears and pressed on. He's so disconnected from the others because of his general calm, polite personality; I view him as less tragic, but more pragmatic.
Last edited by B on Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Keen Observation of Dragon Ball Z Movie 4's Climax wrote:Slug shits to see the genki
Because misery of characters sells, comics have made an eternal business model around finding ways to physically and psychology fuck with their heroes to keep selling them.
That said, its kind of shit when a character is left at a point where their story can end only to bring them back. Future Trunks was one such case, he spent his whole life bashing his face against the brick wall called the Androids and after a lot of fucking about, he finally won. He earned his rest. So, while some stupid, naive part of me that I should probably get around to killing already is excited for the prospect of a "darker" story, I think it could've been done without FT. Dragon Ball got dark before him and well after he was gone.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
ekrolo2 wrote:Because misery of characters sells, comics have made an eternal business model around finding ways to physically and psychology fuck with their heroes to keep selling them.
This is true. It's the main reason series like Berserk and Tokyo Ghoul are popular.
I don't think so, no. But he must suffer to appease the fans, apparently. I'm really flip-floppy on the whole thing. On one level, what they're doing is working on me. On another, I slightly resent that and what they're doing generally.
The preview we got from Super #46 does not fill me with confidence that the Future Trunks arc going to be meaningfully different to the Android arc either, to be honest. Of course, it's way too early to make a full judgement. Though, as the old movies show, Toei are not bothered by making stories that are loose retellings of other arcs/villains/etc.
ekrolo2 wrote:Because misery of characters sells, comics have made an eternal business model around finding ways to physically and psychology fuck with their heroes to keep selling them.
This is true. It's the main reason series like Berserk and Tokyo Ghoul are popular.
Spider-Man is the best example of this. That guy's life is so pathetically miserable he'd probably have blown his brains out years ago and he's the highest selling superhero in the world. Vastly dwarfing even Batman and Superman.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
ekrolo2 wrote:Because misery of characters sells, comics have made an eternal business model around finding ways to physically and psychology fuck with their heroes to keep selling them.
This is true. It's the main reason series like Berserk and Tokyo Ghoul are popular.
Spider-Man is the best example of this. That guy's life is so pathetically miserable he'd probably have blown his brains out years ago and he's the highest selling superhero in the world. Vastly dwarfing even Batman and Superman.
Is he dwarfing Batman? I think that's more the case of Marvel's distribution machine being run better than DC's than overall popularity.
Anyway, yes, you do want to bring your characters to the brink. Storytelling is about conflict.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
ekrolo2 wrote:
Spider-Man is the best example of this. That guy's life is so pathetically miserable he'd probably have blown his brains out years ago and he's the highest selling superhero in the world. Vastly dwarfing even Batman and Superman.
Is he dwarfing Batman? I think that's more the case of Marvel's distribution machine being run better than DC's than overall popularity.
Anyway, yes, you do want to bring your characters to the brink. Storytelling is about conflict.
It could be, but the last time I took a gander at the merchandise sales charts for superhero stuff, Spider-Man was quite significantly above everyone else, the other top guys were Batman, Superman and the Avengers.
And yes, conflict is key. But damn, when you realize some of the shit these guys have been through, if they could, they'd probably say "Stop buying my stuff! You're killing me!" lol.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
ekrolo2 wrote:It could be, but the last time I took a gander at the merchandise sales charts for superhero stuff, Spider-Man was quite significantly above everyone else, the other top guys were Batman, Superman and the Avengers.
And yes, conflict is key. But damn, when you realize some of the shit these guys have been through, if they could, they'd probably say "Stop buying my stuff! You're killing me!" lol.
I've seen the charts you are referring to and I think much of it is because Marvel is much better at distributing merchandise than DC. I don't think Spidey has more bad stuff happen to him than Batman. He's more well adjusted at the very least.
Yeah, even the happiest of us might think of nibbling on the end of a gun barrel if we went through the crap these characters go through, though much of that is a result of YEARS of continuity.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
ekrolo2 wrote:It could be, but the last time I took a gander at the merchandise sales charts for superhero stuff, Spider-Man was quite significantly above everyone else, the other top guys were Batman, Superman and the Avengers.
And yes, conflict is key. But damn, when you realize some of the shit these guys have been through, if they could, they'd probably say "Stop buying my stuff! You're killing me!" lol.
I've seen the charts you are referring to and I think much of it is because Marvel is much better at distributing merchandise than DC. I don't think Spidey has more bad stuff happen to him than Batman. He's more well adjusted at the very least.
Yeah, even the happiest of us might think of nibbling on the end of a gun barrel if we went through the crap these characters go through, though much of that is a result of YEARS of continuity.
It might have to do with their distribution yeah. Spider-Man's been in a pretty big rut for a long time now both in comics and movies whereas Batman's been pretty consistently good/great in just about everything he's showed up in for years and years now. Even people who disliked BvS really liked Batffleck in that.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
